Thread for pure EV owners only please.

reboot · 19-07-2014 7:28am #1

Please may we have a Thread for Pure EV owners only. I think there are enough of us around who have put up our hard earned cash,and do not feel the need to wade through the endless and tortuous comparison with ICE. I have an ICE also, but don't feel the need to debate the tired issue or have to justify an EV to folk who just want to argue for the sake of it.
If I can just quote something from BBC R5 live to finish with.
Two strong men working 8hrs a day,5 days a week for a year, use the same amount of energy as that available from one barrel of oil.
OK ICE wins,now can we please move on ?

Gumbo · 19-07-2014 12:46pm

Isint that what this EV forum is?????

willynt · 20-07-2014 6:42am

reboot wrote: »

Please may we have a Thread for Pure EV owners only. ............ I have an ICE also..........

That's not the definition of pure ev owners to me

Cleveland Hot Pocket · 21-07-2014 9:08pm

So, I obviously missed the announcement of reboot as a new mod ??

23-07-2014 7:22am

Is there a single thread on boards that is only for posters that satisfy some criteria? I don't see how it would work in practical terms.

reboot · 24-07-2014 11:56am

Augeo wrote: »

Is there a single thread on boards that is only for posters that satisfy some criteria? I don't see how it would work in practical terms.

Thanks for that,even on the satellite thread,there is a difference made between those that are Foreign satellites,and I suppose Sky?

bilbot79 · 30-07-2014 5:06pm

A fast charger every 60. Is this true?

reboot · 31-07-2014 3:24pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

A fast charger every 60. Is this true?

Don't understand,do you mean every 60 miles,I have no need of a
fast charger as per Leaf at 120 Amp DC. Zoe is an AC animal only in terms of charge points.Taking only half as long to charge compared to a Leaf in AC charger mode.

reboot · 12-08-2014 8:47am

This may be of interest to anyone wanting to compare Leaf and Zoe pure electric, test drive at irishevowners...com Jan-Bart Spang, "My electric Journey"

reboot · 18-08-2014 10:14am

bilbot79 wrote: »

A fast charger every 60. Is this true?

Triple Combo chargers in the North up to 165 Amps, range anxiety replaced by battery anxiety?

bilbot79 · 19-08-2014 9:27pm

reboot wrote: »

Triple Combo chargers in the North up to 165 Amps, range anxiety replaced by battery anxiety?

Me no comprende senor

reboot · 21-08-2014 9:12am

bilbot79 wrote: »

Me no comprende senor

Thats ten times the current that the Zoe may take from a home charger.? I wouldn't be comfortable pumping 165 Amps into a Li battery module,maybe that's just me.

NIMAN · 24-08-2014 1:13pm

bilbot79 wrote: »

Me no comprende senor

I assume means less battery lifespan?

reboot · 26-08-2014 4:44pm

NIMAN wrote: »

I assume means less battery lifespan?

Quite so, I believe heat may be the big enemy of Li batteries.A man will be along shortly to explain I am sure. Leasing a Zoe means the battery is Renaults problems of course,but still its good to know.

HandsomeDan · 26-08-2014 10:43pm

.

28-08-2014 12:43pm

The Zoe charges at about 110 amps and the Leaf about 120 that's about 2C which will reduce life if charging multiple times daily, and a lot more so if you fast charge to the point the battery gets too hot.

There are batteries that can take much higher rates of charge currents and fast charging will have no noticeable effect but the Leaf's battery is a compromise between life, size, energy density, power density and size.

The model s battery can take a much higher charge rate naturally due to its size, if the Leaf had almost twice the range it would be a 120 amp/hr battery so charging at the fast charger would be a 1C charge rate, meaningless to the battery, it would never get hot.

If leaf battery was a 60 amp/hr battery and 10C capable then it could take 10 times it's rated capacity in power meaning 600 amps from the charger or 240 Kw.

There are many battery cells today capable of 40 C + charge rates with higher energy density and power density than the Leaf but they are most likely not nearly as safe. It will be a long time before non tesla chargers reach 120 Kw never mind 240 Kw.

The I3 has liquid cooling and it's a non issue, VW say the E-Golf needs no cooling ( I remember when Nissan said the same )

It may be very well that the E-Golf doesn't need active cooling.

reboot · 30-08-2014 12:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Zoe charges at about 110 amps and the Leaf about 120 that's about 2C which will reduce life if charging multiple times daily, and a lot more so if you fast charge to the point the battery gets too hot.

There are batteries that can take much higher rates of charge currents and fast charging will have no noticeable effect but the Leaf's battery is a compromise between life, size, energy density, power density and size.

The model s battery can take a much higher charge rate naturally due to its size, if the Leaf had almost twice the range it would be a 120 amp/hr battery so charging at the fast charger would be a 1C charge rate, meaningless to the battery, it would never get hot.

If leaf battery was a 60 amp/hr battery and 10C capable then it could take 10 times it's rated capacity in power meaning 600 amps from the charger or 240 Kw.

There are many battery cells today capable of 40 C + charge rates with higher energy density and power density than the Leaf but they are most likely not nearly as safe. It will be a long time before non tesla chargers reach 120 Kw never mind 240 Kw.

The I3 has liquid cooling and it's a non issue, VW say the E-Golf needs no cooling ( I remember when Nissan said the same )

It may be very well that the E-Golf doesn't need active cooling.

Interesting and informative as usual,thanks. What type of CP will allow Zoe to draw 110 Amps?

30-08-2014 4:52pm

The fast chargers mostly output 44kw so 400 volts x 110 amps is 44 kw.

Most fast chargers have ad and DC

reboot · 31-08-2014 9:47am

Deleted User wrote: »

The fast chargers mostly output 44kw so 400 volts x 110 amps is 44 kw.

Most fast chargers have ad and DC

Practically speaking as someone who has actually driven the Zoe over a year and a half,I have only had access to a 44KW RC twice in that period.The SC CPs being half the current you quoted and off course at home the single phase 230V current drawn being only 32 Amp. I am sure I read ESB are talking about providing 16 Amp home chargers.Range anxiety apart I feel happier with "Less is better" when it comes to charge current and Li Batts?
Just to bang on again, the Newry RC 3 Cp still not talking to Renaults 1 year on,as of last week. Dublin's response being,"Its the most used CP in the North. Excepting Zoes?

31-08-2014 7:49pm

reboot wrote: »

I feel happier with "Less is better" when it comes to charge current and Li Batts?

Generally yes, but if the cells are rated to take higher currents it shouldn't have much of an impact.

There is no cell data released from NEC so you can't accurately determine what charge rates or discharge rates are the max.

There is also discharge or acceleration and regen to think about. All will have an impact.

As batteries improve, charging currents and discharge shouldn't have much of an impact.

reboot · 02-09-2014 11:17am

Deleted User wrote: »

Generally yes, but if the cells are rated to take higher currents it shouldn't have much of an impact.

There is no cell data released from NEC so you can't accurately determine what charge rates or discharge rates are the max.

There is also discharge or acceleration and regen to think about. All will have an impact.

As batteries improve, charging currents and discharge shouldn't have much of an impact.

Agreed. Thanks.

reboot · 14-09-2014 12:25pm

kceire wrote: »

Isint that what this EV forum is?????

Deleted User wrote: »

Generally yes, but if the cells are rated to take higher currents it shouldn't have much of an impact.

There is no cell data released from NEC so you can't accurately determine what charge rates or discharge rates are the max.

There is also discharge or acceleration and regen to think about. All will have an impact.

As batteries improve, charging currents and discharge shouldn't have much of an impact.

Tesla warranty will not cover battery degradation?
BBC R4 on friday 12th,lunch time had the following story.
A man paid 100 K for a Tesla Roadster,only to find that the range reduced and was not covered by warranty. He was told that only faults were covered.I think he paid an extra 30k?,for extended warranty but reckoned that if the car range was only a mile, he was not covered.
Makes all the EV project look bad?

14-09-2014 2:19pm

reboot wrote: »

Tesla warranty will not cover battery degradation?
BBC R4 on friday 12th,lunch time had the following story.
A man paid 100 K for a Tesla Roadster,only to find that the range reduced and was not covered by warranty. He was told that only faults were covered.I think he paid an extra 30k?,for extended warranty but reckoned that if the car range was only a mile, he was not covered.
Makes all the EV project look bad?

No you can't provide a warranty that covers degradation of the battery from actual usage, this is why I emphasise the importance of using the fast charger as little as possible in relation to the leaf because it has no thermal management what so ever. While it still is a good car it's battery does have a finite life which means people should try maximise battery life as long as possible and fast charging as little as possible will make the battery last much longer. Heat is the main concern. I you can monitor the leafs battery with leaf spy and not charge beyond 35 degrees this will help, the cooler the better and not charge beyond 80% when it's hot.

The tesla model s 85 kWh battery is thermally controlled and helps greatly but it needs it because it's battery isn't as stable as the leafs. The leaf battery will never go on fire.

The huge battery in the model s means that after 100-150k miles the car should still have 170 miles range, there isn't a lot wrong with that to be honest if you can super charge in 30 mins. The leaf has about 75 miles range in summer on a brand new battery.

WexTex · 21-09-2014 9:44pm

Hello All,
I just brought a LEAF in on the ferry tonight

But plan on going to Ploughing Tuesday. Anyone in SE have an ESB card I could borrow for 2 days? Won't be able to get one until I register car... You are welcome to charge at my house, I've got a granny charger.

reboot · 23-09-2014 10:40am

WexTex wrote: »

Hello All,
I just brought a LEAF in on the ferry tonight
But plan on going to Ploughing Tuesday. Anyone in SE have an ESB card I could borrow for 2 days? Won't be able to get one until I register car... You are welcome to charge at my house, I've got a granny charger.

Most Leaf owners are at irishevowners.com. very helpful people.

homer911 · 23-09-2014 11:07am

reboot wrote: »

Most Leaf owners are at irishevowners.com. very helpful people.

The facebook forum is most active

WexTex · 24-09-2014 5:55pm

Was on the website before I even got the car, but could find 'no one' there.
I'm not on Facebook. Can look at it a bit but not interact with people. :-(

24-09-2014 6:27pm

WexTex wrote: »

Was on the website before I even got the car, but could find 'no one' there.
I'm not on Facebook. Can look at it a bit but not interact with people. :-(

You have to request to join, it's a closed group.

I could add you but I left the group, there are a few that float about here now and again that can add you.

homer911 · 25-09-2014 7:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

You have to request to join, it's a closed group.

I could add you but I left the group, there are a few that float about here now and again that can add you.

Pretty sure you have to be on FB before you can be added

reboot · 25-09-2014 8:53am

homer911 wrote: »

Pretty sure you have to be on FB before you can be added

You are right,I had similar reservations, and you will get some FB people trying to contact you but I just ignored them.
I found as a Renault owner I was not as welcome perhaps as a Leaf owner.
An element of confirmation bias exists ,which I guess is only natural,and to be expected.

September1 · 25-09-2014 11:03am

I have same problem, no FB account. It would be better if they had own page or something.

Dexter1979 · 26-09-2014 7:26am

September1 wrote: »

I have same problem, no FB account. It would be better if they had own page or something.

A forum would be very handy indeed. The Facebook group is good but it does mean you have to be on Facebook to interact.

As Reboot pointed out most people there are Leaf owners and this includes people who are on their 3rd Leaf in 4 years. Most are however very helpful and have a wealth of experience. A few of them do frequent this forum as well but interaction will be limited. I am sure there are a few Leaf owners on here anyway so feel free to post in this forum if you have questions.

Have you considered joining Facebook just to interact with the group? You don't need to share any info on Facebook nor do you have to use your real name. I have a few friends who use pseudonyms on Facebook.

reboot · 26-09-2014 12:24pm

Dexter1979 wrote: »

A forum would be very handy indeed. The Facebook group is good but it does mean you have to be on Facebook to interact.

As Reboot pointed out most people there are Leaf owners and this includes people who are on their 3rd Leaf in 4 years. Most are however very helpful and have a wealth of experience. A few of them do frequent this forum as well but interaction will be limited. I am sure there are a few Leaf owners on here anyway so feel free to post in this forum if you have questions.

Have you considered joining Facebook just to interact with the group? You don't need to share any info on Facebook nor do you have to use your real name. I have a few friends who use pseudonyms on Facebook.

I asked many months ago if a more Boards approach could be adapted ,as FB can be cumbersome to navigate, things are out of order and not relating as in this "Quote" system. Some group members agreed ,but nothing happened. The majority seem happy, but some of us have had to move on. Boards appears to be more fact and less opinion led?
I have to drive 30 mile round trip sometimes to use a friends computer as the Mournes seems to be slightly behind the Amazon in Broadband and Mobile coverage. British telecom can offer me, for a fee, Up to 1Mbit Broadband and 2 G Outside the house. So I can sometimes get a little annoyed when being Snipped at when someone who has just spent £14k on a Zoe , being told, "But its still a Renault"

26-09-2014 1:25pm

reboot wrote: »

Boards appears to be more fact and less opinion led?

One of the reasons I left the irishevowners group on facebook was because I got sick and tired of the same individuals trying to undermine my contributions to the Group being labelled a troll and anti e.v and anti Leaf ? me anti leaf or e.v ? yeah right !

There are certain people there that believe the Leaf battery will last forever and will not get hot in an Irish climate and fast charging will never ruin the battery !!!

I genuinely hate to think there are people getting ill advice from those who can afford to buy a new leaf every 2-3 years. Naturally the battery will last them because they change the car so often.

I do put time and effort into my posts with facts I have researched myself, knowledge about batteries that's well knows for years with the hope that it is of some use to those who want to keep their leaf. I'm not wasting time any more time on irishevowners who can't accept the leaf isn't perfect. A good car but it has one major flaw, lack of thermal management of the battery.

homer911 · 26-09-2014 4:24pm

On Facebook I have noticed some drivers FC'ing 2 or three times a day. This seems crazy to me! If you need to FC that much, you must be doing a lot of mileage and an EV was the wrong choice.

Clearly these are the kind of drivers who will offload their car after 2-3 years. I centainly would not want to buy the car off them.

EVs perform best in a suburban setting, and that's where my wife's is being used - trips to the shops and dropping kids to school..

(The FB site is good for journey planning and sharing stories)

September1 · 26-09-2014 4:34pm

Nissan claims you can FC multiple times a day. I would also say that on few Irish LEAFs I could plug in with diagnostic interface, it would seem that more FCs seem to improve battery life.

26-09-2014 4:51pm

homer911 wrote: »

On Facebook I have noticed some drivers FC'ing 2 or three times a day. This seems crazy to me! If you need to FC that much, you must be doing a lot of mileage and an EV was the wrong choice.

Clearly these are the kind of drivers who will offload their car after 2-3 years. I centainly would not want to buy the car off them.

EVs perform best in a suburban setting, and that's where my wife's is being used - trips to the shops and dropping kids to school..

(The FB site is good for journey planning and sharing stories)

The leaf is well capable of doing 120-140 miles per day, and it's always best if you can charge at your destination an a slow charger.

Fast charging beyond 80% is not a good thing to do and/or fast charging an already hot battery and the Leaf battery temp display is confusing as the bars could mean anything.

Very cold weather should help with this, you may get away with 2-3 fast charges without going much over 30 degrees C, but much beyond 30 degrees is bad long term.

I was amazed that the battery temp rose from 23 degrees C to 30 in a few mins from a charge of 24% to 74%.

I had to plug out the leaf spy dongle as the sales man pulled up and he was charging into the 90% as we finished chatting. I asked him why does he do this when even the 74% was plenty to get him from Carlow back to Kilkenny. I would love to have seen the temp at 90 odd %.

Personally it wouldn't put me off buying a leaf because it's a well capable car but like any car it can be abused and if I hooked up leaf spy and saw an excessive amount of fast charges then I wouldn't buy it, especially if there were more fast charges than slow.

Dexter1979 · 29-09-2014 9:36am

Look after the car and it will look after you.

Mad_Lad, I noticed that the Zoe uses a smaller amperage but a higher voltage to charge. I wonder if this creates less heat. The charger is also cooled by the cars fan and cooling system so I wonder if this also helps keep the battery temperature down. Zoe doesn't have a "Leaf Spy" equivalent at the moment. This is a shame as I would love to see the data during repeated 43kW charging.

Zoe seems to be better thought out then the Leaf. Nissan rushed out the Leaf to beat Renault but they missed out on the battery problems they had found. This caused the issues with the hot weather in the American desert states and the development of the "lizard pack".

Can't wait to get my car

reboot · 29-09-2014 12:42pm

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Look after the car and it will look after you.

Mad_Lad, I noticed that the Zoe uses a smaller amperage but a higher voltage to charge. I wonder if this creates less heat. The charger is also cooled by the cars fan and cooling system so I wonder if this also helps keep the battery temperature down. Zoe doesn't have a "Leaf Spy" equivalent at the moment. This is a shame as I would love to see the data during repeated 43kW charging.

Zoe seems to be better thought out then the Leaf. Nissan rushed out the Leaf to beat Renault but they missed out on the battery problems they had found. This caused the issues with the hot weather in the American desert states and the development of the "lizard pack".

Can't wait to get my car

Don't quite see the Volts/Amps making a difference.I believe in the 22kw CP (AC) Zoe will charge in half the time it takes a Leaf.Therefore it may be drawing twice the current, even though both cars are being supplied with 415 three phase AC?
I have read that ESB may only supply home CPs at 16 Amp,mine being 32Amp. This is why I like to talk about the "Fuel" being amps and although it may be more correct to speak of KWs, this wee sum Volts X Amps =Watts, its important to remember that when discussing KW we need to stipulate Home 230v and or Street 415V?
The Zoe has a "Direct Consumption" display,I find this useful and an aid to driving, the rest are fashion items, and the novelty soon wares off, pretty as they are. As posted earlier,the car draws around 40 Amps at 45mph on a fairly flat road, twice that on a steep incline and regen is about 25Amps, very rough figures.
Some folk seem to be loosing it re the BCI problem on the other site, but I just go to the CPs that work, then I can choose, some can't.
If you are going to go the route of small scale Solar PV you will be harvesting Amps, good luck with that, I would measure twice and cut once.
You won't regret the purchase of Zoe, be prepared for 20% capacity if the winter is cold, bringing a charge down to 80 miles.

reboot · 29-09-2014 12:50pm

September1 wrote: »

Nissan claims you can FC multiple times a day. I would also say that on few Irish LEAFs I could plug in with diagnostic interface, it would seem that more FCs seem to improve battery life.

I wonder if charging the Zoe from single phase 32 Amp CP as per the home point, would extend the battery life, although taking a long time ,more of a top up situation.
There seems to be a "More and more Rapid CPs please" for Leaf owners, but with a limited amount of money to go around, I could easily manage with Zoe 32 Amp CPs,in the street at a fraction of a big, ( sometimes working) 3 phase m/c, I know mobile monitoring is a factor

reboot · 29-09-2014 12:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

One of the reasons I left the irishevowners group on facebook was because I got sick and tired of the same individuals trying to undermine my contributions to the Group being labelled a troll and anti e.v and anti Leaf ? me anti leaf or e.v ? yeah right !

There are certain people there that believe the Leaf battery will last forever and will not get hot in an Irish climate and fast charging will never ruin the battery !!!

I genuinely hate to think there are people getting ill advice from those who can afford to buy a new leaf every 2-3 years. Naturally the battery will last them because they change the car so often.

I do put time and effort into my posts with facts I have researched myself, knowledge about batteries that's well knows for years with the hope that it is of some use to those who want to keep their leaf. I'm not wasting time any more time on irishevowners who can't accept the leaf isn't perfect. A good car but it has one major flaw, lack of thermal management of the battery.

Can't argue with that.

Dexter1979 · 29-09-2014 2:01pm

reboot wrote: »

Don't quite see the Volts/Amps making a difference.

Higher Amps generate more heat. Try it with your mobile phone. If you have a tablet PC with a USB charger you can charge your phone on this as well. Same voltage but higher Amperage. The result is that the phone battery gets warmer.

You will also notice this with the Zoe. Charge at a 22kW or 43kW and you can hear the fan making a lot more noise at 43kW. This is both 3 phase with the same voltage I think but definetly a lot more amps at 43kW. This generates heat the same way the DC charge will heat the Leaf batter a lot more than the 6kW AC charge.

Really wish the ESB would allow 32A charging points. Currently asking the supplier how much extra a 32A charge point would be.

reboot · 29-09-2014 2:48pm

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Higher Amps generate more heat. Try it with your mobile phone. If you have a tablet PC with a USB charger you can charge your phone on this as well. Same voltage but higher Amperage. The result is that the phone battery gets warmer.

You will also notice this with the Zoe. Charge at a 22kW or 43kW and you can hear the fan making a lot more noise at 43kW. This is both 3 phase with the same voltage I think but definetly a lot more amps at 43kW. This generates heat the same way the DC charge will heat the Leaf batter a lot more than the 6kW AC charge.

Really wish the ESB would allow 32A charging points. Currently asking the supplier how much extra a 32A charge point would be.

Mostly agreed.
Pity Renault/ British Gas don't offer the free CP at home as per UK. I also believe that allowing Zoe to charge up to 100% is important for battery cell balancing, takes ages to go from 99 to 100%. I also notice heating/Ac heat pump does not register on current being used, maybe its on the 12v system? I recently was given the wrong key at the dealership and and happily drove away in the Zoe, only to find it wouldn't switch off! When you get your two CP cards you must use the same card to switch the CP off.The cards are not the same in this aspect In other words if you give someone a card to go and get the car, it must be the card you used to connect the car initially. Sorry if you know all this already, but neither my dealer or Ecar where aware of any of this at the start.

29-09-2014 3:56pm

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Look after the car and it will look after you.

Mad_Lad, I noticed that the Zoe uses a smaller amperage but a higher voltage to charge. I wonder if this creates less heat. The charger is also cooled by the cars fan and cooling system so I wonder if this also helps keep the battery temperature down. Zoe doesn't have a "Leaf Spy" equivalent at the moment. This is a shame as I would love to see the data during repeated 43kW charging.

Zoe seems to be better thought out then the Leaf. Nissan rushed out the Leaf to beat Renault but they missed out on the battery problems they had found. This caused the issues with the hot weather in the American desert states and the development of the "lizard pack".

Can't wait to get my car

The zoe is a great car but I wish Renault wouldn't keep installing low HP motors/engines in cars, it seems to be a Renault obsession. While it's leaps and bounds better than the average 60 HP petrol or diesel Renault would install in a car that size it's still not quick after 80 Kph. It's just something I couldn't live with and it's too small for our needs.

I think the Zoe charges at about 110 amps at about 380 volts and about 130 for the Leaf.

The zoe battery is slightly smaller, it may not heat up nearly as fast nor as much as the leaf battery either, this is unknown and unfortunately I doubt there will be a leaf spy equivalent because it won't see North America and you can't beat the Americans for tinkering around with stuff like that, Europeans don't really do this as much.

The E_GOlf and Kia Soul EV batteries may not heat up either and BMW cool the I3 battery and both the I3 and Soul batteries can be heated, it's optional on the I3 and standard on the Soul, this could prove to be very useful in cold weather.

Amps usually cause heat, correct but this would really only matter to the electrics and motor and if properly designed to take it won't be a problem.

The battery heats up because of higher internal resistance and if it's got a low resistance it won't heat up for the same given current. So in a sense higher current will result in more heat in the battery, but not the cause of the heating if that makes sense ?

If the battery is designed to take it then it won't heat up nearly as much, I was surprised how fast the leaf battery went from 23-30 Deg C, this would worry me but only if I was fast charging more than once in a day but what greatly adds to the destruction of the battery is fast charging a hot battery beyond 80% a high state of charge on a hot battery will greatly accelerate degradation. One reason Nikki Gordon Bloomfield lost 20 % after 50K miles, you do not want this to happen because the warranty will not cover this. The warranty covers defects and fast charging the battery to death isn't a defect, it's abuse. You could argue that it should have been designed not to heat up so much or at least have thermal management, you could argue that in court but my guess is that Nissan will have much better lawyers !

Until it's known about the Zoe battery I still would not fast charge beyond 80% and less is better if you can get away with it, don't be greedy looking for free electricity !

29-09-2014 3:59pm

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Higher Amps generate more heat. Try it with your mobile phone. If you have a tablet PC with a USB charger you can charge your phone on this as well. Same voltage but higher Amperage. The result is that the phone battery gets warmer.

You will also notice this with the Zoe. Charge at a 22kW or 43kW and you can hear the fan making a lot more noise at 43kW. This is both 3 phase with the same voltage I think but definetly a lot more amps at 43kW. This generates heat the same way the DC charge will heat the Leaf batter a lot more than the 6kW AC charge.

Really wish the ESB would allow 32A charging points. Currently asking the supplier how much extra a 32A charge point would be.

The ESB won't allow more charge points because they cost more, and the cable costs a lot more especially if you have to go through attics and insulation and long routes.

My galaxy S % charges 3 times faster than any phone I ever had, it's fantastic. It charges at about 2.1 amps compared to my S II at 750 Ma which is less than an amp and the S II got a lot hot. So if the battery is designed to take along with the electronics then it shouldn't heat up for the same power.

reboot · 29-09-2014 4:36pm

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Higher Amps generate more heat. Try it with your mobile phone. If you have a tablet PC with a USB charger you can charge your phone on this as well. Same voltage but higher Amperage. The result is that the phone battery gets warmer.

You will also notice this with the Zoe. Charge at a 22kW or 43kW and you can hear the fan making a lot more noise at 43kW. This is both 3 phase with the same voltage I think but definetly a lot more amps at 43kW. This generates heat the same way the DC charge will heat the Leaf batter a lot more than the 6kW AC charge.

Really wish the ESB would allow 32A charging points. Currently asking the supplier how much extra a 32A charge point would be.

Why would you and I worry about the battery, its covered?

29-09-2014 6:49pm

reboot wrote: »

Why would you and I worry about the battery, its covered?

The battery lease doesn't entitle you to a new battery automaitically, it's at Renaults discretion whether they install a new one, repair the old one, or install a repaired one.

It also means the one they repair doesn't have to have 100 % capacity, Renault only guarantee 75% capacity, nothing more and nothing less. So they can install a battery with 77% capacity if they choose, not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

Another reason it completely turned me off the zoe, I'll be damned if I'm going to give Renault thousands of euros for a repaired battery.

reboot · 30-09-2014 7:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

The battery lease doesn't entitle you to a new battery automaitically, it's at Renaults discretion whether they install a new one, repair the old one, or install a repaired one.

It also means the one they repair doesn't have to have 100 % capacity, Renault only guarantee 75% capacity, nothing more and nothing less. So they can install a battery with 77% capacity if they choose, not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

Another reason it completely turned me off the zoe, I'll be damned if I'm going to give Renault thousands of euros for a repaired battery.

I note Renault have reduced battery rental to 45 sterling / month. Those of us who supported the EV scheme are still paying 75. Doesn't seem fair.
Li appears to be a very unforgiving battery compared to what has gone before. Over charging or severe discharge can result in a completely useless cell. I know circuits are incorporated to prevent this. 2 Amp charge for a Li-on in a phone seems to be a lot. I note recent comments regarding the carbon foot print from the Net being compared with transport and aviation. Seems like as things get smaller the Amps get bigger?

Dexter1979 · 30-09-2014 7:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

The battery lease doesn't entitle you to a new battery automaitically, it's at Renaults discretion whether they install a new one, repair the old one, or install a repaired one.

It also means the one they repair doesn't have to have 100 % capacity, Renault only guarantee 75% capacity, nothing more and nothing less. So they can install a battery with 77% capacity if they choose, not a gamble I'd be willing to take.

Another reason it completely turned me off the zoe, I'll be damned if I'm going to give Renault thousands of euros for a repaired battery.

No it does not automatically entitle you to a new battery but I do firmly belief Renault Ireland will not have the ability to repair it. Unless they order in a refurbished battery pack I should get a new one. I also belief it will be a good few years before I will be in this situation. In this time there is also the possibility I can get a new battery pack with increased range. The CEO of Renault has been quoted saying this. I am unsure if this will be free of charge (unlikely I would say) but one could argue the lease price may just increase a bit instead of a free of charge replacement.

All unknowns but I can't wait to find out. As you know even a 75% battery capacity in Zoe would be more than enough for my needs.

And charging to 80% in Zoe would require me to stop the charge manually as the car doesn't have this function. I will be charging to 99% on the road and 100% at home. This again is because Renault wants you to get the most out of the car without worrying about the battery.

reboot · 30-09-2014 8:19am

Dexter1979 wrote: »

No it does not automatically entitle you to a new battery but I do firmly belief Renault Ireland will not have the ability to repair it. Unless they order in a refurbished battery pack I should get a new one. I also belief it will be a good few years before I will be in this situation. In this time there is also the possibility I can get a new battery pack with increased range. The CEO of Renault has been quoted saying this. I am unsure if this will be free of charge (unlikely I would say) but one could argue the lease price may just increase a bit instead of a free of charge replacement.

All unknowns but I can't wait to find out. As you know even a 75% battery capacity in Zoe would be more than enough for my needs.

And charging to 80% in Zoe would require me to stop the charge manually as the car doesn't have this function. I will be charging to 99% on the road and 100% at home. This again is because Renault wants you to get the most out of the car without worrying about the battery.

I asked the then head of Renault electric vehicles questions regarding the battery replacement two years ago at the Titanic quarter launch. He was clear that battery "modules" would be replaced, (Me banging on about balancing ,again). I assume he meant that if a LI cell is 3.7/4 volts, and the Zoe battery is 400 volts ie there are 100 modules in series. As these go down, or fail then they would be replaced, maybe not such a big job?

30-09-2014 9:21am

reboot wrote: »

I note Renault have reduced battery rental to 45 sterling / month. Those of us who supported the EV scheme are still paying 75. Doesn't seem fair.
Li appears to be a very unforgiving battery compared to what has gone before. Over charging or severe discharge can result in a completely useless cell. I know circuits are incorporated to prevent this. 2 Amp charge for a Li-on in a phone seems to be a lot. I note recent comments regarding the carbon foot print from the Net being compared with transport and aviation. Seems like as things get smaller the Amps get bigger?

The battery BMS or battery management system won't allow "real" full charges or discharges, and they seem to be pretty reliable.

2 amps for a phone is a huge amount, the only thing I saw charge at that rate was the Ipad but the Ipad has a big ass battery, in fact inside the Ipad the battery is the largest component !

But the Galaxy s 5 hardly gets even mild at 2 amps so once the battery is rated for this current it's no problem, whether it shortens the life is another matter but at 30 odd Euro for a battery I couldn't care less. I'd rather have the much faster charging for convenience. The battery lasts ages also.

Whn you say " it seems as things get smaller amps get bigger" I don't understand the question ?

If you're referring to the phone then no it doesn't matter, you could have a phone that charges at 10 amps if you could find electronics rated so small to handle that kind of current which is unlikely, and then the charger would be pretty big. And the battery would have to handle it. But it's hugely impressive a small battery in a phone charging at 2 amps.

Not long ago you couldn't charge a battery above 0.5c or half the rated current of the battery, today this can be as much as 8-10C.

Some of my RC LiPo batteries charge at 8c so a 5 amp hr battery can charge at 40 amps, this is just insane. That's about 550 watts into a tiny 11.5 volt 5 amp hr battery ! this same battery could start a 3 litre diesel engine.

In comparison the Leaf battery cells are really only comfortable at a up to 1 C charge rate.

Thread for pure EV owners only please.

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