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More than 9,000 one parent families will lose their One Parent payment today - See mo

  • 17-07-2014 3:14pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,867 ✭✭✭


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/more-than-9000-families-will-lose-their-one-parent-family-payment-today-30404074.html


    The move comes despite one organisation saying such families are among the "poorest in Ireland".

    “They’re all extraordinarily poor families who are finding it difficult to make ends meet," Karen Kiernan, CEO of One Familiy.

    More than 9000 families will lose their payment today due to changes to the eligibility criteria for the payment.

    The changes relate to the age of the children and when the payment started.

    Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton, whose department is pressing ahead with the move, declined to comment for a report on RTE's Morning Ireland earlier today.

    Burton published the Social Welfare Pensions Bill in 2012 which made changes to the One-Parent Family Payment scheme among others.

    Ms Burton is heavily tipped to become the next leader of the Labour Party.

    An announcement is expected tomorrow afternoon.

    If Ms Burton beats party colleague Alex White to the role, it is expected she will become tanaiste.

    Ms Burton has been visible in the last few weeks in hustings for the Labour contest - however, RTE's Morning Ireland said she was not available to discuss the issue this morning.

    According to Karen Kiernan, tens of thousands of more people will stop getting the payment next year.

    “It actually means for the near 60,000 people that will be moved off next year that a lot of them will be down money and they’re all extraordinarily poor families who are finding it difficult to make ends meet.

    “Some of the change is counter intuited... some people are being forced to give up their part time work,” she explained.

    She claimed that one-parent families do not get the same support as other families.

    “They don’t have the childcare, the afterschool care, the education training or support that other families have.

    “One-parent families are the poorest type of families in Ireland.

    “Where you’ve got one income, sometimes people are not able to work full-time.

    “We’d like to see part time education courses being made to people affected. They cost €1500 to €2000 each and it would make a huge difference to people,” she said.

    She also said people are confused by the changes.

    “People are very, very confused. They’re unsure. There is a lot of confusion around it.

    “People have been written to, but they are confused. The Department of Social Welfare does have a helpline.

    “It’s not joined up thinking. If people are concerned they should phone us,”


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    What will Mo do about it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    And Labour wonder why they are on the scrap heap and will be annihilated in the next election, no amount of retirements and reshuffles will make any difference now,the way people claiming anything from the State have been treated by Joan and her "Social Protection" Department has been disgraceful and wont be forgotten on election day


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,511 ✭✭✭Heisenberg1


    Demonique wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/more-than-9000-families-will-lose-their-one-parent-family-payment-today-30404074.html


    The move comes despite one organisation saying such families are among the "poorest in Ireland".

    “They’re all extraordinarily poor families who are finding it difficult to make ends meet," Karen Kiernan, CEO of One Familiy.

    More than 9000 families will lose their payment today due to changes to the eligibility criteria for the payment.

    The changes relate to the age of the children and when the payment started.

    Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton, whose department is pressing ahead with the move, declined to comment for a report on RTE's Morning Ireland earlier today.

    Burton published the Social Welfare Pensions Bill in 2012 which made changes to the One-Parent Family Payment scheme among others.

    Ms Burton is heavily tipped to become the next leader of the Labour Party.

    An announcement is expected tomorrow afternoon.

    If Ms Burton beats party colleague Alex White to the role, it is expected she will become tanaiste.

    Ms Burton has been visible in the last few weeks in hustings for the Labour contest - however, RTE's Morning Ireland said she was not available to discuss the issue this morning.

    According to Karen Kiernan, tens of thousands of more people will stop getting the payment next year.

    “It actually means for the near 60,000 people that will be moved off next year that a lot of them will be down money and they’re all extraordinarily poor families who are finding it difficult to make ends meet.

    “Some of the change is counter intuited... some people are being forced to give up their part time work,” she explained.

    She claimed that one-parent families do not get the same support as other families.

    “They don’t have the childcare, the afterschool care, the education training or support that other families have.

    “One-parent families are the poorest type of families in Ireland.

    “Where you’ve got one income, sometimes people are not able to work full-time.

    “We’d like to see part time education courses being made to people affected. They cost €1500 to €2000 each and it would make a huge difference to people,” she said.

    She also said people are confused by the changes.

    “People are very, very confused. They’re unsure. There is a lot of confusion around it.

    “People have been written to, but they are confused. The Department of Social Welfare does have a helpline.

    “It’s not joined up thinking. If people are concerned they should phone us,”

    Yet the clowns in government tell you that family's on a 100K a year are struggling what a joke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Finally but more welfare reforms are needed

    Also old news is old


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Icepick wrote: »
    Finally but more welfare reforms are needed

    Yup defiantly lets pull as much money out of the economy as possible that will defiantly fix it.... only growth in the economy is exports the domestic is contracting due to no consumer spending.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Icepick


    And Labour wonder why they are on the scrap heap and will be annihilated in the next election, no amount of retirements and reshuffles will make any difference now,the way people claiming anything from the State have been treated by Joan and her "Social Protection" Department has been disgraceful and wont be forgotten on election day
    All government earnings are spent on welfare (social, education, health). We have to borrow and keep increasing the enormous gvt debt to fund the rest. How much more do you want?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Icepick wrote: »
    All government earnings are spent on welfare (social, education, health). We have to borrow and keep increasing the enormous gvt debt to fund the rest. How much more do you want?

    No it's not the SW budget is mostly pensions. And the current amount of people on the dole would not normally be on it if there were jobs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Demonique wrote: »
    Ms Burton is heavily tipped to become the next leader of the Labour Party.
    She already is.
    Demonique wrote: »
    “It actually means for the near 60,000 people that will be moved off next year that a lot of them will be down money and they’re all extraordinarily poor families who are finding it difficult to make ends meet.
    Not true
    Demonique wrote: »
    They don’t have the childcare, the afterschool care, the education training or support that other families have.
    Yes they do!
    Demonique wrote: »
    “One-parent families are the poorest type of families in Ireland.
    Rubbish
    Demonique wrote: »
    “We’d like to see part time education courses being made to people affected. They cost €1500 to €2000 each and it would make a huge difference to people,” she said.
    One-parent family does not equal uneducated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,867 ✭✭✭Demonique


    Does anyone know what the changes in relation to the ages of the children are?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Demonique wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the changes in relation to the ages of the children are?


    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/home.aspx


    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/278_One-Parent-Family-Payment.aspx


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    No it's not the SW budget is mostly pensions. And the current amount of people on the dole would not normally be on it if there were jobs.

    Pensions are about 6bn of the 20bn SW budget.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    It is true that poverty rates are much higher among lone parents than across the general population.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Geuze wrote: »
    Pensions are about 6bn of the 20bn SW budget.

    You can try and make out its low and i think it's closer to 9bn, disability, training, family allowance, rent allowance, i could go on and all other items are included in that figure the largest being pensions. JSA is not the largest draw on the budget


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Rubbish

    http://www.onefamily.ie/policy-campaigns/facts-figures/
    • People in lone parent households tend to have the lowest disposable income out of all households in the state (EU-SILC 2010)
    • Those living in lone parent households continue to experience the highest rates of deprivation with almost 69% of individuals from these households experiencing one or more forms of deprivation (EU-SILC 2010)

    How easy do you find it being a single parent, may I ask?

    Inevitable single parent bashing aside, aren't these payments just changing name? When the child reaches a certain age, the parent will have to change from LPA to JSA I think.

    Doesn't surprise me anymore how shortsighted the government are towards single parent families (indeed families in general). If they had an iota of common sense between them, the issue of childcare would be their top priority. The prohibitive cost is pricing many parents out of the workforce altogether.

    They really haven't got a clue.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Doesn't surprise me anymore how shortsighted the government are towards single parent families (indeed families in general). If they had an iota of common sense between them, the issue of childcare would be their top priority. The prohibitive cost is pricing many parents out of the workforce altogether.

    They really haven't got a clue.

    The thing about the allowance is that one parent gets the allowance and it's usually the mother. It's not the single mothers allowance. If it changes so that it's age restricted then at what point is it being cut? The article is very vague.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    The thing about the allowance is that one parent gets the allowance and it's usually the mother. It's not the single mothers allowance.


    The parent who is the primary carer of at least one dependent child is the person who receives the payment, regardless of their gender. What would the person who is not the primary carer of the child or children need with the payment?

    If it changes so that it's age restricted then at what point is it being cut? The article is very vague.


    From 2015 on, the cut-off point will be any dependent children over 7 years of age.

    darkcrystal I'm not sure there's much the government can do about childcare that it isn't already doing? The cost of childcare is surely a personal choice?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    You can try and make out its low and i think it's closer to 9bn, disability, training, family allowance, rent allowance, i could go on and all other items are included in that figure the largest being pensions. JSA is not the largest draw on the budget

    2013 DSP stats here:

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Annual-SWS-Statistical-Information-Report-2013.aspx


    Total = 20bn

    Pensions = 6.45bn

    OPFP = 978m


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    You can try and make out its low and i think it's closer to 9bn, disability, training, family allowance, rent allowance, i could go on and all other items are included in that figure the largest being pensions. JSA is not the largest draw on the budget


    I simply report the facts.

    JSA = 3.1bn


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Geuze wrote: »
    It is true that poverty rates are much higher among lone parents than across the general population.

    Well, yes - a family with two working parents is likely to be earning more than a one parent family on benefit. On the other hand, they are probably paying for child care, medical, mortgage or rent, etc that the family on benefit are getting for free. The benefit family is poorer on paper, but not necessarily in reality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    My understanding of it is that once a single parent is looking for work they'll still receive payments.
    There's nothig wrong with that.
    What's wrong is that someone can get knocked up after a night out in coppers and not have to work for the forseable future. Just because you've got a child doesn't mean you cannot look for work. Plenty do


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Buzz Killington the third


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    The parent who is the primary carer of at least one dependent child is the person who receives the payment, regardless of their gender. What would the person who is not the primary carer of the child or children need with the payment?

    From 2015 on, the cut-off point will be any dependent children over 7 years of age.

    Well the outrage recently was that where there's separated parents, they lose the marriage tax credits and the single parent allowance helped make up the difference, then disregarding custody arrangements one parent got cut. Now over 7 and the other gets cut. Not really a good move in my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Well the outrage recently was that where there's separated parents, they lose the marriage tax credits and the single parent allowance helped make up the difference, then disregarding custody arrangements one parent got cut.


    The primary carer still qualifies for single person carers credit and the person who is not the primary carer doesn't. I'm not seeing the issue here?

    Now over 7 and the other gets cut. Not really a good move in my opinion.


    Of course it's a good move because it lessens the burden on ALL taxpayers. The Government has a duty to ALL it's citizens, which is why I said I'm not seeing how there's much more they can do with regard to the cost of childcare.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    It's obvious that these lazy women need to find extremely highly paid jobs ( even if they have low educational qualifications) that enable them to raise a child alone and pay exorbitant private child care rates

    WTF is their problem.

    Get on your bike and all that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    well, I am sure it will be a nice day out for single parents to bring their kids along to the dole queue to sign on.

    any of you here who haven't been a single parent, well, ye haven't a clue. Not a clue about the difficulties with childcare, the isolation, the stigma, the way you are treated in the sw office, and now the dole queue. Nasty nasty piece of legislation... will have them out doing tus schemes picking rubbish up off the street for nothing. Where are the jobs, where are th community creches? Picking on single parents is the easiest target, picking on these peole and their families because they are so marginalised they won't be able to utilise and kind of attempt to turn this idiotic change around. bullies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    Getting pregnant should not entiltle one to get SW thats the problem a carreer choice for some, that tarnishes others.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    dharma200 wrote: »
    well, I am sure it will be a nice day out for single parents to bring their kids along to the dole queue to sign on.

    any of you here who haven't been a single parent, well, ye haven't a clue.


    You complain about being marginalized, but are you not marginalizing yourself there by stating that anyone who isn't a single parent doesn't have a clue? You're making a blanket generalization there about people who aren't single parents when you yourself don't have a clue of their experience with single parents.

    Not a clue about the difficulties with childcare, the isolation, the stigma, the way you are treated in the sw office, and now the dole queue. Nasty nasty piece of legislation... will have them out doing tus schemes picking rubbish up off the street for nothing. Where are the jobs, where are th community creches?


    There are of course people who are aware of the difficulties with childcare, the isolation, the stigma, the way people are treated in the SW office, and also but not necessarily the dole queues. It's a nasty piece of legislation, sure, but it's a necessary piece of legislation. I'm not sure what your issue is with TUS schemes and the multitude of other schemes available to single parents, as well as the numerous support systems already provided by the State. There are plenty of jobs, no need to go to the extreme of picking up rubbish off the street for free.

    Community creches? There's plenty of them, and that's also not including the free child places in privately owned creches that are on offer to those people who qualify and apply for them.

    Picking on single parents is the easiest target, picking on these peole and their families because they are so marginalised they won't be able to utilise and kind of attempt to turn this idiotic change around. bullies.


    I can think of much easier targets tbh, like single unemployed people with no children. If you want to mobilize support to object to the legislation, there's nothing stopping you, except yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    What's wrong is that someone can get knocked up after a night out in coppers and not have to work for the forseable future. Just because you've got a child doesn't mean you cannot look for work. Plenty do

    Exactly. And just because one party to the copulation had a mickey, it shouldn't absolve them of their financial obligations to the resulting baby. If the revenue can deduct property tax at source from wages, they can deduct child support and ease the burden on the state


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 alex03


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Of course it's a good move because it lessens the burden on ALL taxpayers. The Government has a duty to ALL it's citizens, which is why I said I'm not seeing how there's much more they can do with regard to the cost of childcare.

    You are wrong it will do the exact opposite. there have been 2 major changes Burton brought in and both of them attack a working lone parent, who needed some help because of the prohibitive cost of childcare.

    The income disregard was increased to €147.60 in 1997 to encourage lone parents into work force. Burton has dismantled that to €60 by 2016. In addition, working lone parents will lose OFP when child turns 7 and they will switch to FIS, which will result in a further financial loss. In reality a lone parent, earning €250 will have a cumulative loss of €90pw from 2012 -2015, in addition to the other losses everyone else has suffered. For many, it means working and paying their own rent etc. is no longer viable and many will be forced to give up their jobs and receive full sw benefit, have no childcare and seek rent allowance. That is not interest of the parent (98% of OFP recipients are women), the children and .... the taxpayer.

    True case study - to maybe show real difficulties parenting alone.

    A teacher with 3 kids under 4 married, husband unemployed but not getting SW, and family paying €350pw rent - wages €720. Struggling but managing as Dad minding kids, so no childcare.

    Dad gets fed up - leaves home, gets €188 JSA and refuses to mind kids.

    Mother tries to source childcare for 3 kids - cheapest available €360 per week.

    Mother goes to CWO to see what she's entitled to....nothing. Her income assessed as full €720 pw, even though her net income is €380pw. She was forced to give up job (state loses a trained teacher which they invested in through our 3rd level system) and get OFP and rent allowance.

    The reality is most lone parents are in their thirties and are there a a result of a broken relationship. The stereotype of the teenage one night stand Mam is totally out of date. Less than 2% of lone parents are teenage Mums.

    A parent on OFP gets the exact same as someone on JSA with an additional allowance of €29.80 pw per child (plus children's allowance, that all parents receive). Does anyone think that €29.80 per week is worth the 24/7 day responsibility? Is it really a legitimate career choice? The reality is that the majority of lone parents are living in poverty, as all independent research shows and anecdotally, there is a much higher prevalence of depression. Without affordable child care, lone parents can not make it on their own. A two parent family have options. 1 parent works and the other minds children, 2 parents work and they share childcare costs. All families are struggling with childcare, but imagine paying childcare €800pm, rent €1000pm and earn enough to feed your self as well. Imagine applying for this high paying job saying that you can't work unsocial hours, have no flexibility with weekend work and your first priority will always have to be your child. Then, just because things might be still not enough of a challenge, imagine applying for the same job as someone who's no kids and been on dole for the last 2 years and then the employer finding out that the govt, will grant them €10k pa to hire the person on JSA but nothing to hire the person One Parent Family (Jobsplus).

    It is a dire situation for lone parents and the negative stereo types really do nothing to help a parent already struggling. It is shocking that we can condemn the treatment of lone parents in Magdalene Laundries yet accept that children in lone parents have been proven to have had the most cuts since start of the recession and are singularly proven factually to be the poorest sector in Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    alex you're playing fast and loose with your facts and figures there, and you've made many points in your post that I could easily question and contradict, but I'm not going to, as I don't think there's much to be gained from that.

    What you failed to do however, is offer what you would suggest is a viable and sustainable alternative means to keep everyone happy, or what more would you suggest the Government do that they're not doing already?



    It's easy to bandy around ideas like this -

    “We’d like to see part time education courses being made to people affected. They cost €1500 to €2000 each and it would make a huge difference to people,” she said.

    but when you're also talking about figures like this -

    “It actually means for the near 60,000 people that will be moved off next year that a lot of them will be down money and they’re all extraordinarily poor families who are finding it difficult to make ends meet."


    My math is a bit rusty, what's 60,000 multiplied by €2,000?


    Where does anyone expect the State to find that sort of money without some sort of cuts made somewhere?


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