Is the "sweeper" system ruining hurling?

Grats

The so called "sweeper" system, once known as a seven man defence, has become very popular with many hurling teams now. Following the success of Clare last year the media and indeed many managers embraced this system. They saw it as the new way to play hurling if Clare were to be beaten and for teams to be successful in future.

Many are having second thoughts on this now, especially so since the Clare system broke down this year. In fact many hurling followers are becoming frustrated with how their teams are playing and wonder if it is in fact ruining hurling, and hurlers, altogether.

Prop Joe

Wouldn't worry about it,Something new will come up in a few months time and everyone will copy that and so on and so on

djPSB

The Clare 'system' was lauded after last year yet they were 30 seconds away from losing the final.

If Donal O' Donovan hadn't popped up with the wonder point to save the day, would everyone be now raving the Cork 'system'?

brilliantboy

djPSB wrote: »

The Clare 'system' was lauded after last year yet they were 30 seconds away from losing the final.

If Donal O' Donovan hadn't popped up with the wonder point to save the day, would everyone be now raving the Cork 'system'?

Everybody did rave about the system Cork played in that game. The guts and determination system. The "We are Cork" mentality.
They showed tremendous character to almost win that game despite being second best in almost every area of the field.

djPSB

brilliantboy wrote: »

Everybody did rave about the system Cork played in that game. The guts and determination system. The "We are Cork" mentality.
They showed tremendous character to almost win that game despite being second best in almost every area of the field.

Yes but it's been all about the Clare system since.

savannahkat

Sweeper system, 3 man midfield, half forwards tracking back to assist half backs it is all art of the modern game and the game is better for it. Todays game is faster, generally more skillful all round, meaning there were always very skillful players just these days there seems to be more and spread around far more counties, also unquestionably most players are far fitter than before. Players are also far more versatile and able to adapt to play in different positions whereas before you only tried a player out of position as an act of desperation. I think the sweeper system adds to the intrigue of the modern game. If you adopt it and fall behind it will always be difficult to win but there are times when it can work and should be adopted.

RGS

The withdrawal of a forward to either the defence or to act as a third midfielder is not new. Galway bat Kilkenny in the 1986 all ireland semi final but lost to cork in the final whilst withdrawing a forward to midfield/half back line.

Clares system last year was more refined. Great teams find a way to overcome any system rivals come up with.

Grats

RGS wrote: »

The withdrawal of a forward to either the defence or to act as a third midfielder is not new. Galway bat Kilkenny in the 1986 all ireland semi final but lost to cork in the final whilst withdrawing a forward to midfield/half back line.

Clares system last year was more refined. Great teams find a way to overcome any system rivals come up with.

I agree with you and remember, was it, Johnny Crowley getting MOTM in that final as he was left on his own. Clare did perfect the system and other teams felt they had to copy them but were far from comfortable with it. In fact you could see the frustration with some players trying to play the Clare way and that frustration found its way to the supporters also. Fine if you can adapt to it but very annoying if you can't.

Great teams do indeed find ways of overcoming and dismantling such systems.

marco_polo

If anything has hurling not become an even higher scoring game in the past few years?

It could be my memory is a bit faulty but putting over 20 plus points in a game seems almost routine nowadays where as back in the 80/90s it was a score that would take some beating even with a goal or two.

dzer2

marco_polo wrote: »

If anything has hurling not become an even higher scoring game in the past few years?

It could be my memory is a bit faulty but putting over 20 plus points in a game seems almost routine nowadays where as back in the 80/90s it was a score that would take some beating even with a goal or two.

Yep but the ball is a lot lighter now and travels farther, also free takers were not as accurate. These new refined systems are all developed to nullify Cody's assertion that every man should win his own position this would lead to domination and eventually victory. While there was player withdrawal in previous yrs it was never successful until last yr and then it failed this yr.

999/112

dzer2 wrote: »

Yep but the ball is a lot lighter now and travels farther, also free takers were not as accurate. These new refined systems are all developed to nullify Cody's assertion that every man should win his own position this would lead to domination and eventually victory. While there was player withdrawal in previous yrs it was never successful until last yr and then it failed this yr.

I'd say there is a little bit more to it than that!

Warper

djPSB wrote: »

The Clare 'system' was lauded after last year yet they were 30 seconds away from losing the final.

If Donal O' Donovan hadn't popped up with the wonder point to save the day, would everyone be now raving the Cork 'system'?

Clare didnt play the sweeper system in either of last years finals?

CrabRevolution

I dont think the lighter ball explains it all. Balls have had the plastic core for a good while now, but it seems scores are higher than 5/10 years ago.

Galway scored 5-16 Vs. Kilkenny and 4-13 against Tipperary and still didnt win either match. We've seen teams getting played off the field and still hitting high scores. Offaly were mauled by Kilkenny and still hit 1-18, convincingly beaten against Tipp but they scored 1-20.

Aside from the round robin, in the 16 games so far this year, in only 2 matches has the losing team scored fewer than 20 points (between goals and points).

Compare that to this stage in 2009 for example. Of the 17 matches played, 14 of the losing teams hadnt scored 20 points.

The lowest losing score in the qualifiers this year (1-15 for Laois Vs Waterford) was a point higher than the highest losing score in 2009 (Laois hit 1-14 Vs Limerick).

While there's definitely a difference between a modern O'Neills size 5 and one from 20+ years ago, scores have risen in the last 5 years alone, when I certainly havent noticed any change in the ball constitution.

Aswell as that, lighter doesnt automaticaly mean easier. A lighter ball is much harder to control over long distance, and if anything it is less likely to go over the bar if you are against or across the wind.

randd1

No, its not ruining hurling.

If anything, its being found out in a big way by the better sides, its really only a tactic of trying to contain better teams. The only real success of the sweeper system was Galway in 2012, and even at that it was Damien Hayes playing as an extra midfielder/extra half-forward to support the runners in attack, not as a sweeper in defense.

Clare and Dublin are the ones that used the sweeper system the most, and even at that neither side won anything until they changed tack and went 15 v 15 in games and went toe to toe with "better" opposition. Wexford have used it too, never did them any good until they reverted to 15 v 15 under Dunne. Waterford have tried it on occasion as well, and usually lost.

For the most part, its really only a way to stop teams from putting up too much of a score against you, a bit like the way Laois go about their business, make it tight and keep it close but not really threaten to win the game.

So it won't ruin hurling, as giving the better opposition time and space in defense usually means getting beat as the opposition can pick off scores from long range instead of getting goals. The better sides will always find away to beat the system, I can't think of any side that won an AI by playing the sweeper system.

dastardly00

I do find it head-scratching when a team that plays a sweeper system get the ball and drive it long down to their forwards. The opposition, as a result of the sweeper system employed by the other team, have a spare man at the back so they generally win that ball. We've seen a good few matches so far this year in which this has happened and it really is stupid.

If a team uses a sweeper, they need to make short passes out of defence, or else keep it a long way away from the opposition's free player.

Orizio

What is being ruined exactly? Hurling is entertaining as ever.

There is an alarming increase in diving however - now that could very easily ruin the sport.