Irish cultural cringe??

kingchess

my Scottish buddy was telling me about the "Scottish cringe" and like a fool I had to Google it,there is also Australian and Canadian versions .and judging by some threads,posts/posters on AH the Irish version is alive and well, to paraphrase.it seems to manifest itself by feelings of low respect for Language and Heritage and a sycophantic attachment to the ways are done in other English-speaking Countries,and is a form of cultural Alienation. now......who suffers from it???

Wacker The Attacker

bollocks to the irish language

its not a cringe. I just hate the irish language

Mean Laqueefa

huh ?

WesternZulu

There are a lot of people who have complete contempt for anything remotely Irish, and see it as being inferior to what's in other countries.

You see all the time, they can't be quick enough to knock the language, the economy, GAA, Irish dancing, league of Ireland soccer, quality of life, the scenery,the people e.t.c.

I pity them really.

Wacker The Attacker

WesternZulu wrote: »

There are a lot of people who have complete contempt for anything remotely Irish, and see it as being inferior to what's in other countries.

You see all the time, they can't be quick enough to knock the language, the economy, GAA, Irish dancing, league of Ireland soccer, quality of life, the scenery,the people e.t.c.

I pity them really.

I only hate the language. Everything else about Ireland is great other than the irish language.

Reekwind

kingchess wrote: »

now......who suffers from it???

Most of AH. I was going to advise you to look at a few other threads but actually you only need glance a few posts up. The inferiority complex that many posters here have when it comes to Irish culture is just absurd.

Mean Laqueefa

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

I only hate the language. Everything else about Ireland is great other than the irish language.

Why the hate ?

jellyboy

My Cultral cringe is the knockers of our great little country

I would say boards and the views contained within is a good example
(not all ,but the percentage that lurk and ponce and sweetly troll)

Friend Computer

Reekwind wrote: »

Most of AH. I was going to advise you to look at a few other threads but actually you only need glance a few posts up. The inferiority complex that many posters here have when it comes to Irish culture is just absurd.

I'd say it's more common for certain individuals to mistake apathy for feelings of inferiority.

Wacker The Attacker

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

Why the hate ?

I was battered around a classroom to learn a language that I never spoke or heard spoken outside that classroom

Donkey Oaty

WesternZulu wrote: »

Irish dancing

hatrickpatrick

People hate the Irish language primarily because it's such a f*cking nightmare in school, and it seems pointless to have exams, college etc depending on it when it's purely an ideology based compulsory subject as opposed to a practical one like a current language or maths. That's all. I bet if it was a choice like history or geography, people wouldn't end up despising it nearly as much - or if it was taught like French where the focus is on speaking the language rather than the literature aspect.

Understandably due to Ireland's past, the vast majority of literature chosen for the Leaving Cert is written depressingly about misery and various depressing subject matter. I remember we did a story called An Cearrbhach Mac Cába about this guy who gambles against the grim reaper and repeatedly outsmarts him, which is a ridiculously funny story and everyone really looked forward to reading the next bit of it. Contrast that with the kind of stuff they usually pick ("An Bhean Og, the delightful story of a depressed woman in an abusive relationship, perfect for knocking one down on a happy day") and you can easily understand why the language is associated with unhappiness!

As far as music, I don't think that's a cultural thing. People who bash traditional Irish music are probably just as likely to bash other types of music which are outside the comfort zone of music they grew up in - in other words, closed minded gobsh!tes. I doubt there are many people who specifically think Irish trad music is sh!te but would happily listen to Jewish Klezmer music or Chinese flute music.
As far as television is concerned, you have RTE to thank for that. If they produced more excitement like Love/Hate and less sh!te like Amber, people would be far more appreciative.

jellyboy

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Exactlly what this thread needed a dancing defrocked Irish priest

jellyboy

mii_h3art iz_in ur_hands wrote: »

It's SHÍTE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fúcking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just ****. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by ****. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHÍTE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fúcking difference!

Personal issues forum that way>>>>>>>>>

Wacker The Attacker

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

People hate the Irish language primarily because it's such a f*cking nightmare in school, and it seems pointless to have exams, college etc depending on it when it's purely an ideology based compulsory subject as opposed to a practical one like a current language or maths. That's all. I bet if it was a choice like history or geography, people wouldn't end up despising it nearly as much - or if it was taught like French where the focus is on speaking the language rather than the literature aspect.

Understandably due to Ireland's past, the vast majority of literature chosen for the Leaving Cert is written depressingly about misery and various depressing subject matter. I remember we did a story called An Cearrbhach Mac Cába about this guy who gambles against the grim reaper and repeatedly outsmarts him, which is a ridiculously funny story and everyone really looked forward to reading the next bit of it. Contrast that with the kind of stuff they usually pick ("An Bhean Og, the delightful story of a depressed woman in an abusive relationship, perfect for knocking one down on a happy day") and you can easily understand why the language is associated with unhappiness!

As far as music, I don't think that's a cultural thing. People who bash traditional Irish music are probably just as likely to bash other types of music which are outside the comfort zone of music they grew up in - in other words, closed minded gobsh!tes. I doubt there are many people who specifically think Irish trad music is sh!te but would happily listen to Jewish Klezmer music or Chinese flute music.
As far as television is concerned, you have RTE to thank for that. If they produced more excitement like Love/Hate and less sh!te like Amber, people would be far more appreciative.

You could say that about anything that's forced upon you.

Arthur Beesley

I was not familiar with the aforementioned phenomenon. Thank you for bringing it to my attention, OP.

hatrickpatrick

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You could say that about anything that's forced upon you.

Not really, English is forced on you as well and it's mostly literature based but the majority of texts on JC and LC English exams aren't on a par with suicide notes in terms of cheeriness, which those on the Irish course invariably are.

Reekwind

Friend Computer wrote: »

I'd say it's more common for certain individuals to mistake apathy for feelings of inferiority.

Nope. You don't have to look very far in this forum to find examples of outright hostility towards Irish or the general self-loathing when politics/economics comes up.

Apathy is fine (relatively speaking). It's this sort of sneering and aggressive anti-Irishness that I put down to cringe and a sense of inferiority.

darkpagandeath

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Is that the guy that ruined that marathon ?

Augmerson

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

bollocks to the irish language

its not a cringe. I just hate the irish language

Cannot speak a word of Irish myself but was never embarrassed by it or hated it. It's the other way round. I'm embarrassed and a little bit ashamed I can't use it. Whenever I've met people abroad they've sometimes asked about Irish and wanted to hear some as they thought it sounded beautiful. It is a beautiful language. It's just the way it's thought to us in school and our whole approach to languages in Ireland that is wrong and often we grow up resenting it being forced upon us.

What makes me cringe sometimes about Ireland is the parochialism, the begrudgery, clannish ways, attitudes towards sex and sexes and Ryan Tubirdy.

Donkey Oaty

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

You could say that about anything that's forced upon you.

You could, although it might not have the same cultural resonance that comes out of a collective painful experience.

Pumpkinseeds

WesternZulu wrote: »

There are a lot of people who have complete contempt for anything remotely Irish, and see it as being inferior to what's in other countries.

You see all the time, they can't be quick enough to knock the language, the economy, GAA, Irish dancing, league of Ireland soccer, quality of life, the scenery,the people e.t.c.

I pity them really.

It's pretty much only these bits that I hate.

Donkey Oaty

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Is that the guy that ruined that marathon ?

I think you'll need to rephrase the question as "Is that the traditional Irish dancer who made an artistic statement at a sports event?"

House of Blaze

mii_h3art iz_in ur_hands wrote: »

It's SHÍTE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fúcking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just ****. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by ****. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHÍTE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fúcking difference!

That's it?

That's your theory?

boombang

If you've lived away you'll understand the benefits of Irish social skills in making everyday social interactions friendly and genuine. However, I feel the cultural cringe when I look at politics and public decision making in this country. I've also seen a gross unprofessionalism by people in positions of responsibility at work that counts as cultural cringe to me.

DizzyDamsel

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

I was battered around a classroom to learn a language that I never spoke or heard spoken outside that classroom

Now we know why you chose Wacker 'The Attacker' as your username. ;-)

darkpagandeath

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I think you'll need to rephrase the question as "Is that the traditional Irish dancer who made an artistic statement at a sports event?"

I stand corrected. Is it ?

Shakespeare's Sister

Reekwind wrote: »

Nope. You don't have to look very far in this forum to find examples of outright hostility towards Irish or the general self-loathing when politics/economics comes up.

Apathy is fine (relatively speaking). It's this sort of sneering and aggressive anti-Irishness that I put down to cringe and a sense of inferiority.

I'll admit there is stuff about this country that pisses me off, and lets us down, and while overall it's a grand country, it could do even better.
But the stuff you're talking about is different to self reflection/criticism, it's really toadying stuff from those folks. And you'd swear they weren't part of the problem. Actually, that kinda attitude ("It's everyone else, not me") is one of the things that bugs me about Irish society. The internet (especially the bloody Journal.ie, Politics.ie, BreakingNews.ie comments) really brings it home.

Donkey Oaty

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I stand corrected. Is it ?

'Tis himself.

arse..biscuits

Wacker The Attacker wrote: »

bollocks to the irish language

its not a cringe. I just hate the irish language

I have no idea how someone can hate a language.

Links234

arse..biscuits wrote: »

I have no idea how someone can hate a language.

I don't know either, and I hated Irish as a kid *shrugs* I couldn't tell you why either

Arthur Beesley

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I stand corrected. Is it ?

Something Horan. Did the same at a British GP in the early 2000's.

Hotfail.com

How someone can think of our culture as inferior to that of England or America is beyond on me...

Shakespeare's Sister

Found Irish pretty cumbersome to learn in leaving cert (managed it ok before that). I don't take issue with people not liking learning it - that's not something voluntary anyway. It's people who say it should be gotten rid of, simply because they personally don't like it, which is what's being objected to.

loh_oro

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

Why the hate ?

I hate it because I was forced to learn it when I had no interest in the language

Remmy

jellyboy wrote: »

My Cultral cringe is the knockers of our great little country

I would say boards and the views contained within is a good example
(not all ,but the percentage that lurk and ponce and sweetly troll)

bewbs

Karl Stein

Creeps.

Links234

loh_oro wrote: »

I hate it because I was forced to learn it when I had no interest in the language

But would that be the same of any language you had to learn in school? to get anywhere with learning a language you need to have an interest in it and use it or hear it regularly, but you don't see so many folks raging against French or German?

Sound of Silence

loh_oro wrote: »

I hate it because I was forced to learn it.

We're forced to learn a lot of things in School, not all of it useful, but it doesn't stop other people from enjoying the experience. A lot of the Irish language detractors forget this.

Rabbo

jellyboy wrote: »

My Cultral cringe is the knockers of our great little country

I would say boards and the views contained within is a good example
(not all ,but the percentage that lurk and ponce and sweetly troll)

I'd have to disagree

DEFTLEFTHAND

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Something Horan. Did the same at a British GP in the early 2000's.

Fr Neill Horan yes, he took an unmerciful beating in the Silverstone pitlane after that incident in 03. He claimed stewards intentionally deposited him inside the Williams garage where a mob had formed to issue the beatdown.

lol. may or may not be bullsh1t

loh_oro

Sound of Silence wrote: »

We're forced to learn a lot of things in School, not all of it useful, but it doesn't stop other people from enjoying the experience. A lot of the Irish language detractors forget this.

Irish is the only subject in the entire leaving cert that the state demands you do

Hotfail.com

loh_oro wrote: »

Irish is the only subject in the entire leaving cert that the state demands you do

Maths? English?

loh_oro

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Maths? English?

The Leaving Certificate (Established) is a two-year programme that aims to provide learners with a broad, balanced education while also offering some specialisation towards a particular career option. The programme is taken in almost all schools and by an annual cohort of around 55,000 students. Students following the Leaving Certificate (Established) programme are required to study at least five subjects, one of which must be Irish. In general, students take five or more subjects (usually seven) for examination. Syllabuses are available in 31 subjects. All subjects are offered at two levels, ordinary and higher. Irish and Mathematics are available at foundation level also.

Taking from the NCCA website

FTA69

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I bet if it was a choice like history or geography, people wouldn't end up despising it nearly as much - or if it was taught like French where the focus is on speaking the language rather than the literature aspect.

.

All language teaching in Ireland is utterly crap and French, German etc are no better taught. I did French for four years and can't speak a bloody word of it. I'm learning Spanish for six months now and I know far, far more than I do of French because I learn it in a vocal context.

It's not just Irish that's the problem, it's the methodology.

House of Blaze

What strikes me the most about it though is that the hate springs from the perceived pointlessness of the language at the time you're learning it.

Students don't tend to have as dim a view of other languages as they believe that there is some use to be had in learning them.

kingchess

besides despising the Language some posters give the impression that Irish(one of the oldest vernacular Language in Europe)had no effect on our culture and History,our History is also downplayed(maybe because of Northern Ireland) and posters take a more-dare I say it?-imperialist view of it, which ties in with cultural alienation where people place little value on their own history and culture and place more value on the former colonising power,

Reekwind

loh_oro wrote: »

Irish is the only subject in the entire leaving cert that the state demands you do

Because as a student you were really au fait with the legislation governing the preservation of Irish viz-a-viz the selection of other mandatory subjects on the syllabus :rolleyes:

The distinction between Irish and English and Maths in schools is entirely academic and irrelevant to 99% of students. As far as the latter are concerned, all three subjects are mandatory. Yet I've never heard anyone turn around and complain that Maths shouldn't be compulsory, even though the vast majority of us will never have to solve a differential equation after the Leaving.

But Irish is perceived to be inferior. Hence the complaints that we're forced to learn it instead of a more 'civilised' tongue.

Hotfail.com

Reekwind wrote: »

Because as a student you were really au fait with the legislation governing the preservation of Irish viz-a-viz the selection of other mandatory subjects on the syllabus :rolleyes:

The distinction between Irish and English and Maths in schools is entirely academic and irrelevant to 99% of students. As far as the latter are concerned, all three subjects are mandatory. Yet I've never heard anyone turn around and complain that Maths shouldn't be compulsory, even though the vast majority of us will never have to solve a differential equation after the Leaving.

But Irish is perceived to be inferior. Hence the complaints that we're forced to learn it instead of a more 'civilised' tongue.

The thing with Irish is that even from primary school it's treated as a dull, boring and irrelevant subject. How do you get kids to get interested in something? By making it fun, and Irish is the one subject that I can honestly say I never had any fun with which is unfortunate as I would actually have liked to have learned more.

Adamantium

It's funny when I used to watch TV shows or play games as a kid, they would often include an Irish song and I would immediately like "is that Irish/Gaelige?" Far from being cringy, this kind of music was emotional and soulful/beautiful as you could get. I would often think as a child "that's so cool that it's used in big international things, why is this stuff not more mainstream nationally on the radio as opposed to the Garth Brooks knock-off down in Leitrim/Roscommon pretending to American cowboys?"

There's rarely a more emotional language than Gaeilge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc8pHIAV9v8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miaTf1gF4g

Wacker The Attacker

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not really, English is forced on you as well and it's mostly literature based but the majority of texts on JC and LC English exams aren't on a par with suicide notes in terms of cheeriness, which those on the Irish course invariably are.

The difference being that English is useful and widely spoken