VAT on buying a tractor up north

ArraMusha

If I buy a tractor up north do I need to pay VAT on it. Is the VAT paid to the garage I buy from?

Can I pay cash and import it here without paying VAT?

If I use a friends vat number in the south, how does that work? Do I give the garage that number and pay the VAT (or not) and then get the friend to claim the vat back?
I read some posts on boards saying people have made up numbers..? What are the risks with this?

What is the rate of VAT on tractors, is it the same as the VRT on cars?

simx

ArraMusha wrote: »

If I buy a tractor up north do I need to pay VAT on it. Is the VAT paid to the garage I buy from?

yes

Can I pay cash and import it here without paying VAT?

dont know how well this would work, you need proof of invoice to vrt

If I use a friends vat number in the south, how does that work? Do I give the garage that number and pay the VAT (or not) and then get the friend to claim the vat back?

easier said than done, lot of implications with this idea, audits. etc. what kind of buisness does your friend have? he`d have to buy the tractor himself and then claim, if not agriculturaly based there would be questions raised, so say he buys it and claims back vat, then sells to you, he has to charge you vat anyway, what do you do here?

I read some posts on boards saying people have made up numbers..? What are the risks with this?

think theres a big clampdown on this, not as easily done anymore now, would be classed as fraud id say anyway

What is the rate of VAT on tractors, is it the same as the VRT on cars?

vat in sterling is 20%, vrt is €200 for either a tractor or commercial vehicle

LivInt20

ArraMusha wrote: »

If I buy a tractor up north do I need to pay VAT on it. Is the VAT paid to the garage I buy from?

Can I pay cash and import it here without paying VAT?

If I use a friends vat number in the south, how does that work? Do I give the garage that number and pay the VAT (or not) and then get the friend to claim the vat back?
I read some posts on boards saying people have made up numbers..? What are the risks with this?

What is the rate of VAT on tractors, is it the same as the VRT on cars?

You sound like you are thinking about defrauding Revenue. Be very careful!!!

ArraMusha

LivInt20 wrote: »

You sound like you are thinking about defrauding Revenue. Be very careful!!!

I'm quoting other posts!! You sound like your assuming.

ArraMusha

LivInt20 wrote: »

You sound like you are thinking about defrauding Revenue. Be very careful!!!

I'm quoting other posts!! You sound like your assuming.

Damo810

Most of the donedeal ads from the north say that as long as your registered down here for vat you don't have to pay any up there. Huge savings to be made there.

The Letheram

Jaysus though lads, I only know two farmers that are vat registered. as far as I can see abusing this would be like driving without tax or insurance. You might save butvyou would have no comfort with it and would be always afraid of the day the auditor areives with you or the trader yoi bought from.

ganmo

Once you give the garage an Irish vat number they can sell it to you without the vat. This is the case with buying anything outside Ireland.
It's not you that has to prove you paid the vat, it's up to the garage to collect the vat(and pay it over)

newholland mad

I bet you have no hesitation collecting the vat reclaim when selling cattle or milk . You want your bread buttered on both sides !!!!:mad::mad:

lakill Farm

ok its like this on buying stuff in the north and vat. VAT is 20% up in the north.

If the tractor is 20k euro plus the vat you either pay the €24,000 to the garage in the north or €20k plus a valid Irish Vat number. There is a possibility if you pay the vat in NI that you can get a refund direct of HRM Inland Revenue for the vat element but its massive hassle.

The garages are gone clever they check the vat numbers are valid and who the vat number belongs to .

so in otherwards gone are the days of ronald mcdonald in Dundalk owning 2/3 of the tractors bought in Newry because lads stopped for a €8 Big mac and saved 4ooo vat using his Irish vat number.

here is a link to check valid vat numbers

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/

Sunny Dayz

If your friend has a VAT number but does not trade as a farmer (ie his VAT number is for a business he runs that is not farming), then his VAT number being used to buy a tractor in the North will raise a major flag with the Revenue. Both of you could end up in hot water with the Revenue.


http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/intra-community-supplies.html
6. Penalties for fraudulent claims

There are severe penalties for making fraudulent claims for zero-rating;

• Seizure and forfeiture of zero-rated goods which have not been dispatched or transported outside the State
• The use of an incorrect VAT number is liable to a penalty of €4,000 plus the amount of tax which would be chargeable
• Arrest
• Civil and criminal penalties ranging up to €126,970 and imprisonment for up to five years

C0N0R

lakill Farm wrote: »

ok its like this on buying stuff in the north and vat. VAT is 20% up in the north.

If the tractor is 20k euro plus the vat you either pay the €24,000 to the garage in the north or €20k plus a valid Irish Vat number. There is a possibility if you pay the vat in NI that you can get a refund direct of HRM Inland Revenue for the vat element but its massive hassle.

The garages are gone clever they check the vat numbers are valid and who the vat number belongs to .

so in otherwards gone are the days of ronald mcdonald in Dundalk owning 2/3 of the tractors bought in Newry because lads stopped for a €8 Big mac and saved 4ooo vat using his Irish vat number.

here is a link to check valid vat numbers

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/

If someone does have a valid vat number do they then pay vat when they import it or is there any payments made down here?

lakill Farm

C0N0R wrote: »

If someone does have a valid vat number do they then pay vat when they import it or is there any payments made down here?

no you dont pay it down here at all.

mick.mcginley

do you not have to pay the vat if you sale the tractor in the future?

micraX

The Letheram wrote: »

Jaysus though lads, I only know two farmers that are vat registered. as far as I can see abusing this would be like driving without tax or insurance. You might save butvyou would have no comfort with it and would be always afraid of the day the auditor areives with you or the trader yoi bought from.

I only know one without one..

lakill Farm

mick.mcginley wrote: »

do you not have to pay the vat if you sale the tractor in the future?

yes when you sell the tractor you would have to charge vat on the sale.

Be clever if you sold it back to the north to someone with a VAT number :cool:

ganmo

the lads up the north used to ask for a vat number once they heard a southern accent

enricoh

was using my oul lads vat no. to buy tools for him this week in the uk n the guy said the vat no. was invalid, checked that vies site n came up as invalid there too.

used to be no bother, asked the oul lad was he having any hassle with revenue n he said no (which is a first!)

any ideas why it would change? never used it massively i.e getting refunds off revenue .
could the 4 pallets of coal i got for a tenner a bag have tipped them over the edge?!

if i contact revenue is that a good way of asking for an audit?!:eek:

lakill Farm

enricoh wrote: »

was using my oul lads vat no. to buy tools for him this week in the uk n the guy said the vat no. was invalid, checked that vies site n came up as invalid there too.

used to be no bother, asked the oul lad was he having any hassle with revenue n he said no (which is a first!)

any ideas why it would change? never used it massively i.e getting refunds off revenue .
could the 4 pallets of coal i got for a tenner a bag have tipped them over the edge?!

if i contact revenue is that a good way of asking for an audit?!:eek:

ask your accountant to do a screen print of your dads tax registrations off \ROS

ArraMusha

I rang the revenue and they said if its not a new tractor (which its not) all I need to pay if VRT?

I clearly asked about paying VAT on the 'purchase price' of the tractor and that I wanted to know if I should pay it in north or in south and how to do this, they said just VRT needs to be paid as its not new and its over 6months old? and its 200 paid through the NCT centres. :eek:

I'm confused, it could be that this person didn't understand or maybe this is the case?

Cow Porter

@Lakill

heres a possibility, if a dairy farmers son registers for vat in order to purchase a tractor either north or south, does the son then HAVE TO invoice the father for work done on his farm and then pay vat?? note have to as opposed to 'should'.

Vat is alot of money on a machine over 50k

ardagh30

Is it possible for a garage to buy a tractor in the north and not paying the vat as he is registered for vat here in the south. Then when a farmer is buying the tractor add on the northern ireland vat even if he did not pay thay vat.

Alan Shore

C0N0R wrote: »

If someone does have a valid vat number do they then pay vat when they import it or is there any payments made down here?

If you are registered for VAT then you give your VAT number and they zero rate the supply to you. You then self account for the VAT at the Irish rate and as you have 100% recovery you suffer no VAT.

Alan Shore

ardagh30 wrote: »

Is it possible for a garage to buy a tractor in the north and not paying the vat as he is registered for vat here in the south. Then when a farmer is buying the tractor add on the northern ireland vat even if he did not pay thay vat.

If he is selling it in Ireland then Irish VAT applies.

Bodacious

newholland mad wrote: »

I bet you have no hesitation collecting the vat reclaim when selling cattle or milk . You want your bread buttered on both sides !!!!:mad::mad:

How do you do that ? I reclaim vat for stakes, wire, gates etc but never reclaimed vat on weanlings sold.. Have you a link ?

lakill Farm

Bodacious wrote: »

How do you do that ? I reclaim vat for stakes, wire, gates etc but never reclaimed vat on weanlings sold.. Have you a link ?

2 different types of vat

you claim vat on a VAT58 form - non registered farmer

he is claiming vat on VAT3 - registered for vat

lakill Farm

Cow Porter wrote: »

@Lakill

heres a possibility, if a dairy farmers son registers for vat in order to purchase a tractor either north or south, does the son then HAVE TO invoice the father for work done on his farm and then pay vat?? note have to as opposed to 'should'.

Vat is alot of money on a machine over 50k

sorry only seen this now cow porter