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Are you required to be sober?

  • 14-07-2014 4:12pm
    #1
    NipNip
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 656 ✭✭✭


    If you've been a victim of crime but were inebriated at the time (and the time of reporting same to AGS), is there nothing they can do? Is the crime treated or considered differently in court?


Comments

  • #2
    solomafioso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭solomafioso


    I think there may be the argument that if substances were taken (alcohol in this case), then both parties weren't of "their right mind" and any facts given may be skewed.

    But I'd wait until someone answers definitely...as I'm just "typing from the hip".


  • #3
    NipNip
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 656 ✭✭✭NipNip


    conorh91 wrote: »
    The only time a defence arises, at least partially, is in unlawful killing. But only under very narrow, rare circumstances.

    Otherwise no. Drunkenness is not a defence in any other area I can think of.

    If an accused has been found guilty, alcohol addiction may be a mitigating factor at sentencing, but that's a different story.

    Conor - I am not speaking about defence. I'm talking about the victim.


  • #4
    Luke92
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Luke92


    A crime is a crime regardless of your state of mind.

    But also go to AGS when you are sober to follow it up.


  • #5
    NipNip
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 656 ✭✭✭NipNip


    Luke92 wrote: »
    A crime is a crime regardless of your state of mind.

    But also go to AGS when you are sober to follow it up.

    Is there a requirement that you are sober to 'follow it up'?


  • #6
    conorh91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    NipNip wrote: »
    Conor - I am not speaking about defence. I'm talking about the victim.
    yeah I just deleted that when I realised.

    Drunkenness of the victim is more relevant than drunkenness of an accused. For example, where a drunk victim has provoked his killer, his drunkenness may be a useful relevant factor in raising provocation as a partial defence.

    It may arise in a range of other cases from rape to personal injuries. So yes, it can be a relevant factor; can you be more specific?


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  • #7
    Aint Eazy Being Cheezy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭Aint Eazy Being Cheezy


    NipNip wrote: »
    Is there a requirement that you are sober to 'follow it up'?

    Well you're hardly gonna go back down to the station a few days later if you're half cut?


  • #8
    dharma200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭dharma200


    Absolutely... Iwas in the public gallery in court recently when a victim was firstly cross examined as to the quantity if drink taken... The judge stepped in at one point and got the victim or alleged victim of crime to restate the amount and the judge sortof rolled his eyes in shock...
    The defendant got off in that case, and in my opinion if the alleged victim had not stated the rather large amounts of drinks consumed the alleged perpetrator would have been found guilty.... I realise this is anecdotal but if you have had a skin full of drink then the credibility of what you witnessed or experienced can be called I to question


  • #9
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    It does not have to be shown that the victim was sober, order to achieve a conviction of an accused.

    See the Annabels manslaughter/affray/public order case.


  • #10
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    NipNip wrote: »
    If you've been a victim of crime but were inebriated at the time (and the time of reporting same to AGS), is there nothing they can do? Is the crime treated or considered differently in court?

    No, otherwise you could kill / harm / assault anyone because they were drunk.


  • #11
    NipNip
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 656 ✭✭✭NipNip


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    No, otherwise you could kill / harm / assault anyone because they were drunk.
    Agreed. But apparently they can't take a statement from you when drunk?


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  • #12
    conorh91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    NipNip wrote: »
    Agreed. But apparently they can't take a statement from you when drunk?
    This is more of a procedural issue than a substantive one.

    If a person who is technically drunk can understand the significance of what is being asked of them, there is no obstacle to Gardaí conducting an interview.

    Circumstances also arise where it is necessary to question a drunk suspect, such as where there is a reasonable apprehension of harm caused to persons or property on foot of a delay in interviewing. This is permitted, and such evidence may eventually be admitted into evidence by a trial judge, even where a suspect is profoundly drunk.

    Even if the regulations or other rights of the accused are said to be breached, the decision to admit such statements into evidence will almost always be a matter for the trial judge.


  • #13
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    There are a number of reasons for it. The main one is that when making a statement it includes a declaration from you that you understand that you can be prosecuted if you state anything which is false in the statement. In order to ensure you understand this, a Garda will not take a statement from you when drunk. Aside from that there are other reasons in relation to the affects of alcohol on your short term memory and ability to properly communicate.


  • #14
    Jim Rockford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭Jim Rockford


    NipNip wrote: »
    Agreed. But apparently they can't take a statement from you when drunk?

    No police force does, why would they need to when you are drunk ? Any such statement would be gobbledegook. Most formal statement are taken a day or two after the events anyway, drunk or sober.


  • #15
    Lmklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Lmklad


    Jim Rockford wrote: »
    No police force does, why would they need to when you are drunk ? Any such statement would be gobbledegook. Most formal statement are taken a day or two after the events anyway, drunk or sober.

    Also, the accused could allege they any statement taking from a drunken defendant could be unsafe as the statement was taken from someone who was not in command of their full faculties. Just make the statement when you're sober. Include the quantity of alcohol you consumed, if you're the victim you should hide nothing.


  • #16
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    I met a drunk the other day he was directing traffic at a busy intersection. I asked him why he did this and he stated he was worried about the traffic lights not working properly at that intersection. He was oblivious to the mayhem he was creating.

    If some annoyed motorist had punched him it would have been a crime.

    However if the identity of the accused was solely dependent on his recollection of the description of the accused. I could imagine the fact he was gorillas in the mist would not exactly stand up to scrutiny.

    Plus the above is correct a person needs to understand the gravity and implications of lying in a statement prior to signing it. Being drunk in a public place is a crime for a reason it means you have to be cared for by others. As you have by intent or otherwise turned yourself into a walking (or not) hazard.


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