Eircom 150Mb/s VDSL possible?

iMrApex

Like Eircom went from 70Mb/s to 100Mb/s, will it be possible for them to go up to 150Mb/s with VDSL?

ED E

iMrApex wrote: »

Like Eircom went from 70Mb/s to 100Mb/s, will it be possible for them to go up to 150Mb/s with VDSL?

Nope, ver few go over 130 with vdsl totally maxed out.

FTTH trialists get 150 at the moment.

AlanS181824

The thread title got me excited there OP :pac:

I have a "good" line and I'm pretty close to the cabinet and my max attainables are 128Mb on the down.

iMrApex

ED E wrote: »

Nope, ver few go over 130 with vdsl totally maxed out.

FTTH trialists get 150 at the moment.

"Attainable Net Data Rate: 26.002 Mbps 122.752 Mbps"

Could I be put to something such as 120Mb/s on VDSL?

OneEightSeven

iMrApex wrote: »

"Attainable Net Data Rate: 26.002 Mbps 122.752 Mbps"

Could I be put to something such as 120Mb/s on VDSL?

No, the highest profile is limited to 100Mb.

BionicRasher

I am on the 50/20 profile and I get a constant 68/18.

Hasn't changed much in months

AlanS181824

OneEightSeven wrote: »

No, the highest profile is limited to 100Mb.

Why can't they not make new profiles for people that can get them?

Would be great to have a faster down but an even faster upload would be great!

120/25 or 130/30 even?

ED E

AlanS181824 wrote: »

Why can't they not make new profiles for people that can get them?

Would be great to have a faster down but an even faster upload would be great!

120/25 or 130/30 even?

You're maxing out the line, its not likely to be stable. 120 attains you could only set 110 and maybe not have disconnects. The 100mb cap is sensible. You won't see the diff between 100 and 110 or 120. And 20 up is still twice the competition at 10mb via UPC. Going higher is just going to cause more issues for little benefit.

jca

Would pair bonding along with vectoring give a big increase?

ED E

Could do, but as bk has said before its unlikely to happen.

AlanS181824

What about having a profile where the line synced at the Max it could handle?

IE above 100Mb. Would love to see above 100Mb on a speed test :pac:

PeadarB

AlanS181824 wrote: »

IE above 100Mb. Would love to see above 100Mb on a speed test :pac:

From some time back -

AlanS181824

PeadarB wrote: »

From some time back -

Ah c'mon! That's not real is it?

How is that possible? Someone who works at Eircom maybe?

PeadarB

A "fluke" on my mac. Always 95/19 'ish.

AlanS181824

PeadarB wrote: »

A "fluke" on my mac. Always 95/19 'ish.

Aww, I see.

bk

AlanS181824 wrote: »

What about having a profile where the line synced at the Max it could handle?

IE above 100Mb. Would love to see above 100Mb on a speed test :pac:

Get UPC and you will

But in all serious, there really is very little real world difference between 100mb/s, 120mb/s and even 200mb/s!

To be honest I saw very little real difference between my previous 16mb/s ADSL2+ and my now 120mb/s UPC. I was able to do do youtube and Netflix HD before and I still am! Big file downloads are a bit faster, but I had already developed the habit of kicking them off and going away and doing something else, so at least for me, it didn't change my world.

The one big and welcome difference was the increased upload speed, going from 0.5mb/s to 10mb/s made a massive difference, in terms of both my work (software build uploads) and uploading pictures, video, cloud backups, etc.

I think anything over 50mb/s is easily into "good enough" territory for the vast majority of home users for the foreseeable future.

Eircom could do 150mb/s with pair bonding, however there are a number of significant technical challenges with it and I just don't see Eircom going to the expense of it, when it still wouldn't get them faster then UPC (200mb/s for consumers, 500mb/s for business). So what would be the point?!

100/20 VDSL gives Eircom a "good enough" "value for money" alternative to UPC.

I believe that the next step for Eircom will be FTTH * and 1Gb/s

* They might do G.Fast/FTTdp, but I'd consider that pretty much FTTH anyway.

For UPC it will be DOCSIS 3.1 and 1Gb/s

For ESB/Vodafone it will probably be 1Gb/s over FTTH

Basically the next step for everyone is gigabit broadband.

AlanS181824

bk wrote: »

Get UPC and you will

But in all serious, there really is very little real world difference between 100mb/s, 120mb/s and even 200mb/s!

To be honest I saw very little real difference between my previous 16mb/s ADSL2+ and my now 120mb/s UPC. I was able to do do youtube and Netflix HD before and I still am! Big file downloads are a bit faster, but I had already developed the habit of kicking them off and going away and doing something else, so at least for me, it didn't change my world.

The one big and welcome difference was the increased upload speed, going from 0.5mb/s to 10mb/s made a massive difference, in terms of both my work (software build uploads) and uploading pictures, video, cloud backups, etc.

I think anything over 50mb/s is easily into "good enough" territory for the vast majority of home users for the foreseeable future.

Eircom could do 150mb/s with pair bonding, however there are a number of significant technical challenges with it and I just don't see Eircom going to the expense of it, when it still wouldn't get them faster then UPC (200mb/s for consumers, 500mb/s for business). So what would be the point?!

100/20 VDSL gives Eircom a "good enough" "value for money" alternative to UPC.

I believe that the next step for Eircom will be FTTH * and 1Gb/s

* They might do G.Fast/FTTdp, but I'd consider that pretty much FTTH anyway.

For UPC it will be DOCSIS 3.1 and 1Gb/s

For ESB/Vodafone it will probably be 1Gb/s over FTTH

Basically the next step for everyone is gigabit broadband.

I chose Vodafone over UPC and frankly I'm thankful I did.

UPC have the worst customer service I've ever had the misfortune to deal with, wanted to ring up for my auntie who was having a problem with her router and do gave me this premium number to ring!

Something like €2 a minute for it!

Sometimes I wish I had 200Mb but to be honest the difference between 100Mb and 200Mb isn't much in real world use cases.

Sure if you're downloading massive files then yeah the extra 100Mb will be great but they're both extremely fast and stuff downloads quickly.

But then the difference between a 10Mb upload and a 20Mb upload is massive IMO!

Myself and my friend who has 120Mb UPC were comparing my connection and his.

No one on the WiFi and computers wired up to Ethernet both tried to download a well known ("legal" ) torrent, mine was downloading around 10MBp/s and his around 6 to 7MBp/s.

It's possible that UPC restrict torrents and they probably do but it nearly all our tests Vodafone FTTC came up on top!

This post ended up being a lot longer than I had originally planned :pac:

I'm super excited at the prospect of 1,00/1,000!

My friend in Netherlands had 90/90 and I think his ISP gave a free upgrade to 500/500 or something crazy like that!

It's an exciting future for Ireland's broadband either way.

bk

AlanS181824 wrote: »

I chose Vodafone over UPC and frankly I'm thankful I did.

UPC have the worst customer service I've ever had the misfortune to deal with, wanted to ring up for my auntie who was having a problem with her router and do gave me this premium number to ring!

Something like €2 a minute for it!

I think that is a little unfair.

I've UPC and my parents have Vodafone FTTC which I also look after.

UPC have been brilliant, I've had zero issues with it.

Vodafone on the other hand was a nightmare:

- First, when the parents got Vodafone FTTC, it worked great for one week, then it went down for 6 weeks. No broadband, no phone, no monitored alarm, everything dead for 6 weeks! Kept calling but support was useless in sorting it out.

- Second, they keep re-activating and charging my direct debit, despite telling them not to and my parents paying the bill already in the post office. After the third time, I only got it sorted by making an official request to delete my bank details from their database per the data protection act!

- Oh and there was that time they billed me €800 in one month for my mobile bill!!

All got sorted in the end, but it was like pulling nails.

UPC have a free phone and local 01 support numbers, just like Vodafone. They offer a premium support number for PC support, where their broadband is working, but the issue is you don't know how to set up your PC. That is completely fair to charge extra for and it is something Vodafone won't even support (once their modem is working, the rest is up to you).

AlanS181824 wrote: »

But then the difference between a 10Mb upload and a 20Mb upload is massive IMO!

I agree, it is definitely the one area UPC is falling behind and the one area I feel they really need to improve things on.

Vodafone 100/20 * for €35 is far better value then UPC 120/10 for €44 IMO

* Assuming you actually get 100/20, these are upto speeds and lets say if you can only get 40/8, then UPC would be better as it tends to be more consistent. The good thing is you can now test your line and tell what profile you will get before signing up, which is a great improvement over the past.

AlanS181824 wrote: »

It's an exciting future for Ireland's broadband either way.

I couldn't agree more and it is nice to point this out from time to time. Some people take these things for granted today and it needs to be pointed out from time to time.

bk

MOD: BTW updated the thread title, so it doesn't get people too excited. I wish people learned to use ? always in these type of threads.

AlanS181824

bk wrote: »

I think that is a little unfair.

I've UPC and my parents have Vodafone FTTC which I also look after.

UPC have been brilliant, I've had zero issues with it.

Vodafone on the other hand was a nightmare:

- First, when the parents got Vodafone FTTC, it worked great for one week, then it went down for 6 weeks. No broadband, no phone, no monitored alarm, everything dead for 6 weeks! Kept calling but support was useless in sorting it out.

- Second, they keep re-activating and charging my direct debit, despite telling them not to and my parents paying the bill already in the post office. After the third time, I only got it sorted by making an official request to delete my bank details from their database per the data protection act!

- Oh and there was that time they billed me €800 in one month for my mobile bill!!

All got sorted in the end, but it was like pulling nails.

UPC have a free phone and local 01 support numbers, just like Vodafone. They offer a premium support number for PC support, where their broadband is working, but the issue is you don't know how to set up your PC. That is completely fair to charge extra for and it is something Vodafone won't even support (once their modem is working, the rest is up to you).



I agree, it is definitely the one area UPC is falling behind and the one area I feel they really need to improve things on.

Vodafone 100/20 * for €35 is far better value then UPC 120/10 for €44 IMO

* Assuming you actually get 100/20, these are upto speeds and lets say if you can only get 40/8, then UPC would be better as it tends to be more consistent. The good thing is you can now test your line and tell what profile you will get before signing up, which is a great improvement over the past.



I couldn't agree more and it is nice to point this out from time to time. Some people take these things for granted today and it needs to be pointed out from time to time.

When I had Chorus NTL their support was alright but personally I think it just went downhill since Liberty Global took them over.

Their broadband is great when it works and to be fair the majority of time it does.

It's probably the only thing I miss about Sky Broadband, they have some of the nicest customer care that I have dealt with.

Really helpful, sometimes aren't sure themselves but they'll tell you.

No nonsense!

Up there with Amazon IMO in terms of helpfulness.

6 weeks without broadband? I couldn't imagine! Seriously? :O

I'm on Vodafone's €40 package and the first bill was nearly €80!

I got some shock when I saw that let me tell you!

Luckily there was enough in the account because otherwise win AIB would've slapped on a €10 fee!

I pay my Vodafone bill with my Debit Card, they have it on file and just charge it automatically on the 30th.

Works for me and saves me the hassle of having to remember!

From reading on Boards they seemed to have been issues with SEPA and Eircom so I personally just try to avoid Direct Debits altogether.

€800 is shocking for a bill! My mother is with Vodafone and her bill is I think around €70 with her work.

I don't know how people on BillPay manage :pac:

Yeah that's another thing about UPC, if you're paying for 120/10 then generally 9 times out of 10 you will get 120/10!

Even a little more in many cases.

Whereas with FTTC you're not going to get 100/20, not even if you're the only one on the cabinet and it's in your garden!

It just doesn't seem to happen!

I'm around 200 Metres away from mine and I get 94/18 on a speed test.

This is going from 10/1 with Sky so I couldn't be happier!

Well, if I could get more out of my line I'd like that of course! :pac:

But for now, I'm delighted.

Imagine... Ireland of all places will have some of the fastest internet in the world!

Yay ESB/Vodafone!

bk

AlanS181824 wrote: »

When I had Chorus NTL their support was alright but personally I think it just went downhill since Liberty Global took them over.

Oh it did, after they took over Chorus/NTL, they closed the very experienced Chorus support center and the quality of customer support dropped by a massive amount. It has taken a few years, but I think they have been working very hard to improve it and I believe that in fairness it is very good now again.

Don't Sky use that ridiculously expensive 0818 numbers? Even for sales!!

I'd never go with them for that reason. One area UPC get totally right IMO. Also lots of people here on boards have been complaining about awful speeds on Sky Broadband and they still have no sign of doing VDSL, not very inspiring to be honest.

AlanS181824 wrote: »

From reading on Boards they seemed to have been issues with SEPA and Eircom so I personally just try to avoid Direct Debits altogether.

Well my parents wanted to pay by post office (they don't have a debit card and don't even use ATM card, all by the book!). Vodafone said that would be no problem, but they required bank details when signing up, but promised they wouldn't bill it, so I gave them mine. Big mistake on my part believing them :mad:

Also yup 6 weeks no broadband. My parents didn't mind this part so much, they aren't big internet users, it was no phone that worried them, being elderly and heavily depending on it for their security and health monitoring.

BTW I know two other relations down in correct who this happened too. In their cases it was so bad, that they even ended up losing their phone number and had to get a new one!

AlanS181824 wrote: »

€800 is shocking for a bill! My mother is with Vodafone and her bill is I think around €70 with her work.

Long story from a few years ago. My monthly bill was normally €60 per month and included data roaming anywhere in the world (a really great part deal). I happily used it around the world for more then a year, no problems and no big bills, always zero cost for data roaming. Then they decided to cancel the free data roaming without adequately telling me. The €800 was for just two very light days of usage (browsing/email, no video, pictures, etc.) in the US. Was completely shocked when I got that bill as you can well imagine. They certainly got an earful for me on that one. After two worrying weeks, they admitted that they hadn't correctly informed me about such a significant change in plan and waived the charges.

I believe that they realised that if it went to court they wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but it was a lot of stress for me for two weeks. Needless to stay I dumped Vodafone after this and now I'm very happy on Tesco Mobile pay as you go, unlimited calls, texts and 1GB of data for €15. Much cheaper, for way more then I was getting with Vodafone and no worries about being overbilled (worse case scenario if something goes wrong, it uses max €15 of credit).

Anyway the point is, you can have good and bad experiences with every company, so I'd be careful about making sweeping claims.

Eircom, UPC, Vodafone all have relatively the same level of customer care quality. The only one I'd really complain about is Sky with their stupid 0818 number.

Bog Standard User

ED E wrote: »

Nope, ver few go over 130 with vdsl totally maxed out.

FTTH trialists get 150 at the moment.

150mb is not possible currently on fttc but when eircom deploy multi node vectoring it will be.

the current vectoring is just phase 1 of many

multi node vectoring is phase 2 as far as i know

bonding will be phase 3

ED E

Assuming Phase 2 isnt until the installs are done for the initial rollout of 1.4mil?

We're bleeding edge right now so we'll have to see what real world mileage is like when it happens. If they do manage to get a lot of people onto 100 and 150 profiles at that point itll really pressure UPC to start moving to DOCSIS 3.1. Interesting times.

bk

Now that is very interesting. Reading up on Node Level Vectoring, it seems it might allow for another big jump in VDSL speeds!

There is a graph that shows speeds of 180mb/s at 100 meters, 140mb/s at 300 meters, 100mb/s at 500 meters, etc. Very impressive and this is without bonding!

Exciting times ahead

Praetorian

Bk,

where did you read that? I tried googling node level vectoring but didn't find anything concrete!

I had the feeling though there would be further gains on vdsl before fiber, and without the need to pair bond.

ED E

Praetorian wrote: »

Bk,

where did you read that? I tried googling node level vectoring but didn't find anything concrete!

I had the feeling though there would be further gains on vdsl before fiber, and without the need to pair bond.

"On August 15, 2011, Huawei’s Fixed Broadband (FBB) innovation lab successfully developed the industry’s first NLV prototype. Huawei also successfully completed more than ten Vectoring tests (seven in Europe), in cooperation with various operators and research institutions, that factored in real-life scenarios such as multiple line pairs, mixed line pairs, and external interference. All the test results recorded an average speed increase of 50 to 90 percent." - Huawei

Not bad at all.

AlanS181824

bk wrote: »

Now that is very interesting. Reading up on Node Level Vectoring, it seems it might allow for another big jump in VDSL speeds!

There is a graph that shows speeds of 180mb/s at 100 meters, 140mb/s at 300 meters, 100mb/s at 500 meters, etc. Very impressive and this is without bonding!

Exciting times ahead

That's great, massive potential so.

Wonder will Eircom actually implement it though.

bk

Praetorian wrote: »

Bk,

where did you read that? I tried googling node level vectoring but didn't find anything concrete!

I had the feeling though there would be further gains on vdsl before fiber, and without the need to pair bond.

Very small graph on the right of this article:

http://www.dslprime.com/dslprime/42-d/4650-node-scale-breaks-through-at-huawei

Of course I'd take that with a grain of salt as the graph is coming from a vendor. The graph is certainly downplaying the speeds achievable with card based vectoring, so wouldn't be surprised if they are overplaying the speeds possible with Node Level vectoring.