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Certification of Timberframe

  • 10-07-2014 3:22pm
    #1
    Sallmonblow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭


    Hi all,
    Just hoping for a little direction here. Currently in process of trying to get started on new build.

    My builder plans to build his own timber-frame from scratch on site.
    Just wondering will there be an issue with certification of this type of build or even issues with structural soundness.
    Builder has assured his engineer has signed off on these buildings before. My arch tech is not convinced at all.


Comments

  • #2
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    who is your chartered arch/eng assigned designer and assigned certifier?

    your arch tech is right to be concerned.

    assigned designer: who signs off and uploads the construction drawings and the commencement notice
    assigned certifier: confirms compliance with building regulations


  • #3
    kkelliher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭kkelliher


    Sallmonblow wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Just hoping for a little direction here. Currently in process of trying to get started on new build.

    My builder plans to build his own timber-frame from scratch on site.
    Just wondering will there be an issue with certification of this type of build or even issues with structural soundness.
    Builder has assured his engineer has signed off on these buildings before. My arch tech is not convinced at all.

    would you be concerned if he started making the concrete blocks onsite? why is the timber frame any different. there is a raft of standards that timber frame companies have to meet that cant be done on site


  • #4
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Sallmonblow wrote: »
    Hi all,
    Just hoping for a little direction here. Currently in process of trying to get started on new build.


    My builder plans to build his own timber-frame from scratch on site.
    Just wondering will there be an issue with certification of this type of build or even issues with structural soundness.
    Builder has assured his engineer has signed off on these buildings before. My arch tech is not convinced at all.

    Look at it this way: if it was that easy, the company I work for could have saved €250k.....and a fortune in annual product insurance....

    Who will give you house insurance ?

    Hold on: the builder's engineer ? Where's your engineer ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #5
    Johnnyhpipe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Johnnyhpipe


    Ugh that sounds like a disaster. A whole timber frame house gunthered together on site..?!

    I have quite a lot of experience with timber design/timber frame design as a structural engineer, and your post makes me nervous..particularly with regard to the lack of quality control (in comparison to a specialist pre-fabricated frame) and the "builder's engineer..". Also, is this certified under the new BC(A)R Regs?? If so, the neither the builder nor his 'engineer' can provide the ultimate certification. This must come from the employer's design team (i.e your Engineer and your Assigned Certifier).

    It sounds like you don't have an Engineer on your side, correct?


  • #6
    barfold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭barfold


    I worked on one of these stick build projects and there were no issues re home insurance etc. Clients architect and engineer specified what was required and inspected regularly. Just because it is put together on site does not mean it is of lesser quality. I also erected tf houses from some of the large tf companies and some of the quality was terrible. I would have thought it was impossible to make every panel off square in a factory setting yet thats what regularly arrived. Stick build is common practice in the US and Canada. If it is done properly it is just as good as the factory stuff


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  • #7
    Sligoronan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Sligoronan


    I have constructed TF houses and TF passive houses on site. I would have to say With the right systems in place there will be no problems. Make sure to hire a team with plenty of experience in timber frame design and TF construction.


  • #8
    no1murray
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭no1murray


    I have build a lot of onsite timber frames (stick frames) and I can assure you that the quality and accuracy of my frame will be far better than any from a timberframe company. Most frames in the states are built onsite. I think a lot of architects are ignorant to anything that isnt block or a factory frame. Im not going to say your not going to have problems because its all about who builds it. If your builder is well versed in this type of construction then it should be plain sailing.


  • #9
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    I thought we were talking about certification of a dwelling under the new building control legislation?


  • #10
    no1murray
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭no1murray


    An on site build meets all building regulations. So there will be no problem certifying it.


  • #11
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 42,171 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    no1murray wrote: »
    An on site build meets all building regulations. So there will be no problem certifying it.

    What a very very strange thing to say. ....


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  • #12
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    @ no1murray I recommend you read the new building control legislation and the various clients/ contractors & Certifiers responsibilities.


  • #13
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    no1murray wrote: »
    An on site build meets all building regulations. So there will be no problem certifying it.
    Rubbish


  • #14
    no1murray
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭no1murray


    BryanF wrote: »
    @ no1murray I recommend you read the new building control legislation and the various clients/ contractors & Certifiers responsibilities.

    Can you post what sections of the legislation where it deems on site timber frame to be sub standard. Are cut roof now sub standard, must we just use trusses. It must be time for me to close up shop if thats the case.


  • #15
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    I'll just recap on the posts is question as best I can.
    Sallmonblow wrote: »
    Builder has assured his engineer has signed off on these buildings before. My arch tech is not convinced at all.
    i see the risk of on-site construction as a supervision of quality issue.BUT here is the question I asked:
    BryanF wrote: »
    who is your chartered arch/eng assigned designer and assigned certifier: confirms compliance with building regulations
    I asked this as they should be consulted because They are liable if something goes wrong. Then we got a sales pitch wrapped up in, how great on-site timber frame is in the USA:
    no1murray wrote: »
    I have build a lot of onsite timber frames (stick frames) and I can assure you that the quality and accuracy of my frame will be far better than any from a timberframe company
    good for you.
    Most frames in the states are built onsite. .
    whats that got to do with wet and windy Ireland, where standards vary greatly & where anyone can call themselves a builder? .
    I think a lot of architects are ignorant to anything that isnt block or a factory frame. .
    I'd disagree, IMO it's more to do with a self certification system that now makes the arch/eng liable if something goes wrong with that timber frame. In the states they have building control and codes that are clearly defined unlike the system in Ireland. .
    Im not going to say your not going to have problems because its all about who builds it. If your builder is well versed in this type of construction then it should be plain sailing.
    'should be' .. Comforting words to a person who is making the biggest investment of their life..
    BryanF wrote: »
    I thought we were talking about certification of a dwelling under the new building control legislation?
    no1murray wrote: »
    An on site build meets all building regulations. So there will be no problem certifying it.
    rubbish! how can you make such a ridiculous statement?
    So I suggested you should read the new legislation to understand the certification process on a build ( any build, nothing to do with on-site timber frame)
    BryanF wrote: »
    @ no1murray I recommend you read the new building control legislation and the various clients/ contractors & Certifiers responsibilities.


    no1murray wrote: »
    Can you post what sections of the legislation where it deems on site timber frame to be sub standard. Are cut roof now sub standard, must we just use trusses. It must be time for me to close up shop if thats the case.

    Nobody is saying on-site timber frame is substandard. There appears to be two different conversations going on here. The OP has not clarified their original question regarding who is the assigned certifier and whether they are comfortable certifying compliance with on-site timber frame.

    Btw I have worked on jobs with in-site timber frame construction. My concern here is under the new regs the assigned certifer must state 'this building complies' (it's now longer 'In my opinion').


  • #16
    no1murray
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 118 ✭✭no1murray


    I dont have a clue what point you're trying to make. Ill just continue building timber frames.


  • #17
    Sallmonblow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 ✭Sallmonblow


    In process of getting assigned certifier, the tech arch works for one and was getting me a quote (but unlikely to work with this type of TF), and I have two other quotes to come in.

    I now have more questions for my A.C when I get them


  • #18
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    no1murray wrote: »
    I dont have a clue what point you're trying to make. Ill just continue building timber frames.


    "Not got a clue."

    QED methinks.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #19
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    no1murray wrote: »
    I have build a lot of onsite timber frames (stick frames) and I can assure you that the quality and accuracy of my frame will be far better than any from a timberframe company. Most frames in the states are built onsite. I think a lot of architects are ignorant to anything that isnt block or a factory frame. Im not going to say your not going to have problems because its all about who builds it. If your builder is well versed in this type of construction then it should be plain sailing.

    What nonsense.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #20
    kkelliher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭kkelliher


    galwaytt wrote: »
    What nonsense.

    Lets keep it on topic as clearly this is not an item that can be confirmed either way so little point in rising temperatures on it.


  • #21
    dave78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4 ✭dave78


    no1murray wrote: »
    An on site build meets all building regulations. So there will be no problem certifying it.

    What engineer did you get to certify it? Where are you based? Im on the meath kildare border


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