Golf Digest events - Juniors

eoghan104

Does anyone else play in these events? I have been playing them a lot, 10+, in the last couple of years and never failed to have a great day out.

Last week in Knoghtsbrook my mother was paired with a 16 yr old off 5 and an 11 yr old off 18 (his mother followed in a buggy). The 16yr old won his class and the 11 yr old came second in his.

This has really put me off going again. I would hate to be paired with an 11 yr old and I think there should be some age limit on winning these events. Even if they said U18s must have a handicap or xx or less, thats what most clubs do in my experience.

Does anyone think Im just being anti-junior? I am all for Junior golf and encouraging them to play in comps but these are expensive days out and the value goes for me if a junior can win off any handicap.

I sent a mail and they said its being reviewed but as is any GUI handicap holder can win.

Rippeditup

eoghan104 wrote: »

Does anyone else play in these events? I have been playing them a lot, 10+, in the last couple of years and never failed to have a great day out.

Last week in Knoghtsbrook my mother was paired with a 16 yr old off 5 and an 11 yr old off 18 (his mother followed in a buggy). The 16yr old won his class and the 11 yr old came second in his.

This has really put me off going again. I would hate to be paired with an 11 yr old and I think there should be some age limit on winning these events. Even if they said U18s must have a handicap or xx or less, thats what most clubs do in my experience.

Does anyone think Im just being anti-junior? I am all for Junior golf and encouraging them to play in comps but these are expensive days out and the value goes for me if a junior can win off any handicap.

I sent a mail and they said its being reviewed but as is any GUI handicap holder can win.

This attitude for me is one that gives golf a bad name.. Juniors have every right to be competing if they are good enough.
I remember people having this attitude in my club when I was a junior and in all honesty it has massively impacted the clubs development as all the good players left for somewhere that appreciated them and seen how they where the future of the game.

I love to see juniors in senior cup teams and junior cup teams and playing in higher profile competitions as this is the best way for them to learn how to play under some pressure.

Felexicon

eoghan104 wrote: »

Does anyone else play in these events? I have been playing them a lot, 10+, in the last couple of years and never failed to have a great day out.

Last week in Knoghtsbrook my mother was paired with a 16 yr old off 5 and an 11 yr old off 18 (his mother followed in a buggy). The 16yr old won his class and the 11 yr old came second in his.

This has really put me off going again. I would hate to be paired with an 11 yr old and I think there should be some age limit on winning these events. Even if they said U18s must have a handicap or xx or less, thats what most clubs do in my experience.

Does anyone think Im just being anti-junior? I am all for Junior golf and encouraging them to play in comps but these are expensive days out and the value goes for me if a junior can win off any handicap.

I sent a mail and they said its being reviewed but as is any GUI handicap holder can win.

You're being anti junior. Doesn't matter if someone is 6 or 60 if they're good enough they're old enough

big_drive

I'd have no problem once they have a valid handicap. I'd be all for encouraging juniors in any way possible

eoghan104

Just to paint a picture here I was on the Junior committee of my club for the last 5 years, only stepping down this year. During that time we fought tirelessly for more rights for the juniors and we got them.

We established rules where juniors of a certain age once they reached a certain handicap could enter all comps bar majors and be eligible for prizes.

A junior in our club pays 130 a year, a full member 1600. Do you think any junior whos handicap is naturally shooting down should be allowed to win any prize going? I don't.

I believe juniors should play in a juniors category. The main reason I didn't like hearing about the juniors in Golf Digest is because I would hate to be out playing with an 11yr old kid I didn't know, maybe that's just me.

"I remember people having this attitude in my club when I was a junior and in all honesty it has massively impacted the clubs development as all the good players left for somewhere that appreciated them and seen how they where the future of the game"

This attitude is certainly not me. In my club we have turned our junior section into one of the strongest in the country. This was by allowing them more access to golf comps and coaching. It doesn't mean that have to be eligible for anything.

Corkblowin

You're being totally anti-junior. This was an open competition, they paid their fees and won prizes. Well done to them.

big_drive

If the young lad was only starting out and played off 28 and was unsure of rules, etiquette, etc it may be difficult to play with. But off 18 at 11 years old is decent going and he knows what he's at. And the 16 year old clearly is an excellent golfer. So personally I wouldn't have a problem.
Played a junior scratch cup last year with a 14 year old off 6, was so impressive. At end of round I gave him 3 new pro v1's I had in the bag. It was like Christmas for him, couldn't thank me enough times. But l believe little gestures like that are important to keep lads going and hopefully they stick with the game

Dtoffee

Its an Open competition, your membership fee has nothing to do with it. It is up to the organisers to decide whether any age limits apply and they clearly are ok with juniors winning.

I could understand if your club was allowing juniors win majors etc, then you would have a case as clearly they are not paying the same subs as you. I have played in a few of these days and they are fun, but if you were to take them seriously ..... you would be watching every score that comes in and its simply not worth. There is no open draw, so you can organise your own 4ball and use whatever driver you like:rolleyes:. I'd say, let it go and theat them as a day out for a bit of skit with your mates.

TrapperChamonix

eoghan104 wrote: »

.....with a 16 yr old off 5 and an 11 yr old off 18 (his mother followed in a buggy). The 16yr old won his class and the 11 yr old came second in his.

......... Even if they said U18s must have a handicap or xx or less, thats what most clubs do in my experience.

Hard to think what handicap limit you would put if the 16yr old is already playing off 5 and the 11 yrd old off 8.

eoghan104

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Hard to think what handicap limit you would put if the 16yr old is already playing off 5 and the 11 yrd old off 8.

Yeah I'd have no problem with the guy off 5. I just think 11 is very young.

Seems I am in the minority and I'm being a grumpy auld sh1te!!

Thanks for replies.

Seve OB

I'd rather be drawn alongside a junior off 5, or 13 or 18 rather than an aul hacker.

I remember the days, late 80's when I was a junior in our club my da used to hand me out a drink in the porch. Then we moved to a bigger clubhouse and there was a TV room where we could have our drink. We had our competition once a week and the winner would get a sleeve of balls. Outside of that, we were welcome on the course only when there was nobody else around!

Fair play to all the men who worked so tirelessly for the juniors down through the years that followed. Nowadays Juniors are welcome in the main bar and rightly so. They get plenty of opportunity to play golf, and they turn out in droves for their competitions. They are given loads of tuition and are allowed to play in the mens comps if they are good enough, they play on the club teams... they are the future.

The result of all this ........ well next week, our star junior will be teeing it up at the British Open, so yes, Juniors should be welcomed and welcomed with open arms.

eoghan104

stevieob wrote: »

I'd rather be drawn alongside a junior off 5, or 13 or 18 rather than an aul hacker.

I remember the days, late 80's when I was a junior in our club my da used to hand me out a drink in the porch. Then we moved to a bigger clubhouse and there was a TV room where we could have our drink. We had our competition once a week and the winner would get a sleeve of balls. Outside of that, we were welcome on the course only when there was nobody else around!

Fair play to all the men who worked so tirelessly for the juniors down through the years that followed. Nowadays Juniors are welcome in the main bar and rightly so. They get plenty of opportunity to play golf, and they turn out in droves for their competitions. They are given loads of tuition and are allowed to play in the mens comps if they are good enough, they play on the club teams... they are the future.

The result of all this ........ well next week, our star junior will be teeing it up at the British Open, so yes, Juniors should be welcomed and welcomed with open arms.

Yep Greystones have a great set up for juniors now. Worked a lot with them over the years.

Dr_Colossus

Just to add a bit of balance as I can see where Eoghan104 is coming from.

eoghan104 wrote: »

This has really put me off going again. I would hate to be paired with an 11 yr old and I think there should be some age limit on winning these events. Even if they said U18s must have a handicap or xx or less, thats what most clubs do in my experience.

Does anyone think Im just being anti-junior? I am all for Junior golf and encouraging them to play in comps but these are expensive days out and the value goes for me if a junior can win off any handicap.

The big differentiating factor with these Golf Digest events and member club competitions is that they are open competition and thus should be open to all with a valid handicap. Sure they are expensive but they're also expensive for the junior who is paying the same expensive entry fee. If the junior however was getting to enter for a reduced price or playing from forward tees then they shouldn't be eligible to win and should only be eligible for a junior category prize representative of their entry fee.

Granted 11 is very young and a lot of member clubs prohibit juniors under 10 from even becoming a member or playing under the supervision of an adult. In effect if you're not at least 10 years old then you're not permitted or welcomed on the course under any circumstances which is very harsh. Once the entrant is of acceptable age to the club hosting the open competition however then they should have full claim to any prizes available.

In terms of your own enjoyment and playing with juniors I can see how this can be a factor. To generalise from my own experience I find juniors on the whole quite shy and quiet out on the course and it can be quite difficult to knock talk out of them. Guess they're either so engrossed/concentrating on their own game or afraid to disturb yours. Also they're far more likely to fly off the handle causing a bit of a scene whether belting clubs off the ground or their bag or cursing profusely and sulking for a number of holes or even the round (I'm prone to cursing my own inability quite often but generally get over it in time for the next shot, something that comes with age perhaps).

To contrast however I have no problems playing with juniors and often find it inspiring and educational. A lot of them are very competitive and work hard on their game with their ultimate goal to reduce that handicap so it can be a welcome break. To add, the most impressive round of golf I've had/witnessed was from a 16 year old recently playing off 4 who shot a gross score of -3. He had 43 pts and I was delighted to see him win the open competition beating a 21 handicaper with the same score on count back. He was seriously impressive and his good work is paying off as he's now down to 2 handicap.

eoghan104 wrote: »

We established rules where juniors of a certain age once they reached a certain handicap could enter all comps bar majors and be eligible for prizes.

A junior in our club pays 130 a year, a full member 1600. Do you think any junior whos handicap is naturally shooting down should be allowed to win any prize going? I don't.

I believe juniors should play in a juniors category. The main reason I didn't like hearing about the juniors in Golf Digest is because I would hate to be out playing with an 11yr old kid I didn't know, maybe that's just me.

In terms of member competitions I agree with the above, I also don't think juniors should be eligible to win any prize going given their subscription price. I do think however they should be able to enter all competitions (including majors) once of acceptable standard (18 handicap or less?) but that they're instead playing for a junior category prize with a reduced competition entry fee.
To add to the above I also think under 30s membership deals should have some restrictive playing rights (even if only something like ineligibility to win the Captain's Prize etc) since I don't think it's particularly fair on those a few years over the age discount level.

In terms of your comment regarding your perceived hatred of playing with an 11 year old you didn't know, I think this is just you as I don't see the difference between him/her and anyone else once they're able to play to a reasonable standard. They're all players with a valid handicap paying the same entry fee in an open competition.