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Gay Cake Controversy!

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭ Duggy747


    If a gay couple run a bakery would they be in the same position if they refused to make a cake specifically designed to support no changes to the current traditional marriage status? A 'keep marriage between a man and women' style cake.

    Same if it was a person wanting a Pro-Life themed cake from a baker who is Pro-Choice and thus refuses them business.

    They'd probably be applauded, story shared on social media with comments from people saying business have the right to refuse custom if they don't agree with it, etc........


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    FTA69 wrote: »
    I said "eejits on this particular matter", I don't think every religious person is a fool but I do think that homophobia based on religion is silly and wrong.

    Homophobia would be refusing to do business with homosexual people because they are homosexual. Refusing to do a particular business transaction with a homosexual person because that person wanted a political slogan on a cake is not homophobia.

    The bakery is in step in it's political stance with the NI parliament which refused to enact SSM legislation three times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭ I Heart Internet


    So if they ordered a cake saying congratulations on your Civil Partnership and it was refused?

    The business should have the right to refuse to make any order that it wanted. BUT NOT because the customer happens to be gay.

    An alternative example might be a muslim person wanting to have a cake decorated in a way that extolled the virtue of covering up women from head to toe.

    A bakery should have the right to refuse it, but NOT becasue the client is muslim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ yoke


    osarusan wrote: »
    indeed, if somebody from the Iona institute went into a bakery run by a homosexual and asked them to make a cake saying 'vote no to gay marriage', what would the response be on here?

    Well, in theory the homosexual baker should just ask for payment and bake the bloody cake, its his job.

    That said, if the message said "gays are an abomination" rather than "vote no to gay marriage" - it should be considered incitement to hatred, and refusing to print it is actually mandated by law, probably.


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ Lexie Incalculable Wimp


    I wonder if there would be such an out cry if somebody went into a bakery owned by a gay person and asked for a cake with a message asking people not to support gay marriage and was told that the the bakery wouldn't do it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭ Tea-a-Maria


    _Redzer_ wrote: »
    Can't wait until I get to open my Muslim bakery!

    Seriously, a religious bakery? How retarded. Just bake the fúcking cake

    Off topic, but this reminds me of a book I saw in town one day:

    "Bake through the Bible: Taste and see that the Lord is good"

    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,815 ✭✭✭✭ SEPT 23 1989


    Listened to the cake shop owner on the radio there he seemed like a decent chap


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭ old hippy


    Link to the bakery refusing each of those please.

    It was a hypothetical.
    osarusan wrote: »
    indeed, if somebody from the Iona institute went into a bakery run by a homosexual and asked them to make a cake saying 'vote no to gay marriage', what would the response be on here?

    Here? On AH? Well, in that hypothetical people would be outraged as it's asking people to deny others basic rights as a couple. Others would say "freedom of speech".

    Asking the bakery to promote voting yes is something positive; it's not denying anyone's rights nor is it hurting anyone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭ I Heart Internet


    I wonder if there would be such an out cry if somebody went into a bakery owned by a gay person and asked for a cake with a message asking people not to support gay marriage and was told that the the bakery wouldn't do it.

    This really is a direct comparrison (unlike some of the scenarios above).

    Obviously, I would have zero issue with the bakery declining this piece of work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    Cake shops are a minefield when it comes to messages on cakes.

    http://www.snopes.com/food/prepare/caketalk.asp


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭ old hippy


    I wonder if there would be such an out cry if somebody went into a bakery owned by a gay person and asked for a cake with a message asking people not to support gay marriage and was told that the the bakery wouldn't do it.

    See my answer above


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭ Seedy Arling


    Let them eat cake...


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ padd b1975


    These gays must have way too much time on their hands to be whinging about a bloody cake.


    Gateau(ver) it!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭ I Heart Internet


    old hippy wrote: »
    Asking the bakery to promote voting yes is something positive; it's not denying anyone's rights nor is it hurting anyone.

    Asking is fine. Threatening legal action if they decline is denying their right to say "No thanks".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭ Medusa22


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    These gays must have way too much time on their hands to be whinging about a bloody cake.


    Gateau(ver) it!!

    It is only an issue for a person if someone else makes a big deal out of it and refuses to make the cake. You are right that it is no big deal, it's just a cake, so why didn't they just make it? No fuss at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,423 ✭✭✭✭ Annasopra


    The business should have the right to refuse to make any order that it wanted. BUT NOT because the customer happens to be gay.

    An alternative example might be a muslim person wanting to have a cake decorated in a way that extolled the virtue of covering up women from head to toe.

    A bakery should have the right to refuse it, but NOT becasue the client is muslim.
    Not really answering the question I asked

    Apparently a "normal" woman is a busty blonde sexy page 3 model who wears make-up, short skirts and red lipsticks and has pouty lips.  Who knew. 👀😏

    ******



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    Medusa22 wrote: »
    It is only an issue for a person if someone else makes a big deal out of it and refuses to make the cake. You are right that it is no big deal, it's just a cake, so why didn't they just make it? No fuss at all.

    They could have gone to dozens of other cake shops but they had to pick the one which is named after a tribe in the Bible. Looking for confrontation and now compensation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭ FTA69


    Homophobia would be refusing to do business with homosexual people because they are homosexual. Refusing to do a particular business transaction with a homosexual person because that person wanted a political slogan on a cake is not homophobia.

    The bakery is in step in it's political stance with the NI parliament which refused to enact SSM legislation three times.

    You are codding yourself if you think there's no homophobia at play here. Why else would they be opposed to marriage equality to begin with only for the fact they're religious nuts?

    Also I'm not arguing the shop isn't entitled to refuse to print gay marriage slogans; I'm just saying it's unfortunate that their religion has instilled homophobic beliefs into them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭ HazDanz


    It's clearly a loaded cake purchase looking for the reaction they got and then getting the publicity they craved.


    Scum in my eyes.


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ Lexie Incalculable Wimp


    old hippy wrote: »
    It was a hypothetical.



    Here? On AH? Well, in that hypothetical people would be outraged as it's asking people to deny others basic rights as a couple. Others would say "freedom of speech".

    Asking the bakery to promote voting yes is something positive; it's not denying anyone's rights nor is it hurting anyone.

    There really is no difference between the too. This entire thing stinks of a pressure group deliberately targeting a business for their beliefs. If a gay bakery refuses to bake an anti-gay marriage cake then is that not denying the rights of the anti group? Surely they have the right to express their opinion, if if we don't agree with it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,690 ✭✭✭ Karl Stein


    The bakery is in step in it's political stance with the NI parliament which refused to enact SSM legislation three times.

    I think it should be noted that it was a Sinn Fein motion to have marriage equality laws enacted that was defeated.
    This is the third attempt to persuade members of the regional assembly to back same sex marriage in Northern Ireland. A year ago, they rejected a similar motion by 53 votes to 42.

    theguardian.com

    No prizes for guessing which side of the house was against equality legislation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭ I Heart Internet


    Not really answering the question I asked

    Sorry, your question was:
    So if they ordered a cake saying congratulations on your Civil Partnership and it was refused?

    The way it's phrased didn't lend itself to a yes/no answer...hence my text.

    In short, I would support (in principle) if they declined to make a Civil Partnership cake becasue they did not agree with civil partnerships.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    It is, e.g. Jeremiah 7:18


    Quote:
    The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven.

    So the bible says its okay to make cakes for queens then?

    Your move religious nordies


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,784 ✭✭✭✭ dxhound2005


    FTA69 wrote: »
    You are codding yourself if you think there's no homophobia at play here. Why else would they be opposed to marriage equality to begin with only for the fact they're religious nuts?

    Also I'm not arguing the shop isn't entitled to refuse to print gay marriage slogans; I'm just saying it's unfortunate that their religion has instilled homophobic beliefs into them.

    Being in favour of what has always been marriage, one man one woman does not make a person homophobic. Or put another way being against extending it to SSM is not homophobic. It is what was voted on in the NI parliament with the majority being against SSM. It is a political issue with views on both sides.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,546 ✭✭✭✭ padd b1975


    Medusa22 wrote: »
    It is only an issue for a person if someone else makes a big deal out of it and refuses to make the cake. You are right that it is no big deal, it's just a cake, so why didn't they just make it? No fuss at all.

    Why couldn't the gays accept that the cake wasn't going to be made how they wanted by that particular business?

    Find another bakery, no fuss at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭ yoke


    They could have gone to dozens of other cake shops but they had to pick the one which is named after a tribe in the Bible. Looking for confrontation and now compensation.

    If the bakery is dumb enough to do something like this that leaves them open to being forced to pay out compensation, then they deserve to be called up on it and to pay out compensation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭ kunst nugget


    yoke wrote: »
    So are they saying that they couldn't find a single baker employed by the bakery who would agree to make the cake, because all the bakers employed by them refused to do so based on their own individual religious beliefs?

    If I go into a kosher bakery and asked them to bake a pork pie and they refuse, do I say they've discriminated against me because I'm gentile. Does the fact that they may have non-Jewish people working in the bakery alter the fact that it is a kosher bakery? No, it doesn't.
    yoke wrote: »
    ie. they were unable to bake the specified cake due to lack of resources?

    Nothing to do with resources. It's to do with ethos.
    yoke wrote: »
    To me it appears more like the management of the bakery did not agree with the message on the cake, and hence refused to create it.

    That is it. I don't think it would have matter if the person ordered it was gay, straight, black or Chinese, they still would have refused to make the cake.
    yoke wrote: »
    It's a dangerous road to go down - pretty soon you'll have leaflet companies deciding what you can and can't print on leaflets, TV companies deciding what political views you can express on air, etc.

    This already happens. Leaflet companies aren't state run institutions and they can and will refuse orders for leaflets if they want. Do I think that's right or wrong? Depends on the circumstances. RTÉ would have pretty strict editorial control over what is broadcast.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭ old hippy


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    These gays must have way too much time on their hands to be whinging about a bloody cake.


    Gateau(ver) it!!

    ah, paddy cake, paddy cake; baker's man


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,108 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Why else would they be opposed to marriage equality to begin with only for the fact they're religious nuts?

    So everyone opposed to same sex marriage is a "religious nut"?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭ old hippy


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Why couldn't the gays accept that the cake wasn't going to be made how they wanted by that particular business?

    Find another bakery, no fuss at all.

    Perhaps we should have segregated bakeries? One for heterosexuals and one for "the gays"?


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