How big a problem is gambling in Ireland?

Kermit.de.frog

Had reason to drop in to a betting shop last week and thought it was a bit sad seeing the sheer numbers in there with warped eyes fixed on the betting screens and other delights.

The thing is most of them were young men and quite a few of them, i'd hazard a guess by their appearance, probably in low paid work or not working at all. They did not seem like the types just dropping in for a quick bet.

I know of one family that has been ripped apart by compulsive gambling on behalf of one member who blew everything, destroyed his life and is now homeless. I suppose the gambling places don't give a sh!t and why would they? They make plenty of dosh out of misery.

I'm just thinking perhaps we need more regulation of gambling holes in this country? They are so cynical too in the methods used to exploit the vulnerable. They are often situated in numbers around pubs for example so you get the alcoholic and the gambler.

I have never gambled but I do despise the culture they promote, their methods and the real consequences and I think we have a real serious issue in Ireland that is not being discussed like it should be - like smoking or alcohol for example.

And before the "it's only a minority, why punish everyone" - I get the argument - all I am suggesting is more regulation, not stopping people. I believe if someone has a visible problem the onus should be on the betting shop to tell that person enough is enough - same with a bar man for an insanely drunk customer.

Just sayin.

wazky

Tax it!!

Solves all of Irelands other problems anyway.

BonkeyDonker

Sure a few pints and head down the bookies is a national passtime.........

yes there

Seen a statistic on twitter which was very amusing. A company uses Ray Winston to advertise in play betting during televised games and if you put down a tenner for every bet he advertised you would be down some serious dosh.

RayM

I'll bet you €50 that it's not a problem at all.

The Backwards Man

What's worse?

A regulated bookie that will take your dough, or an unregulated one that will take your life?

People will gamble regardless.

Yellowblackbird

You're using the idea of 'gambling' and 'compulsive gambling' interchangeably there in your post. Which are you talking about? Which do you maintain these young men in the bookies were engaged in?

Smithwicks Man

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I believe if someone has a visible problem the onus should be on the betting shop to tell that person enough is enough - same with a bar man for an insanely drunk customer.

Just sayin.

You can spot someone in the bookies with a gambling addiction within 30 seconds. It's shameful that their bets are taken by the staff but unless they chose to opt out (most bookies have an opt out scheme where you can ask to be barred from placing bets with them) then there's nothing that will be done.

Sadly, many who have a serious problem aren't at the stage of admitting it so they see no reason to opt out.

wazky wrote: »

Tax it!!

Solves all of Irelands other problems anyway.

The majority of gambling is done online and the companies are set up in Gibraltar etc. so they don't operate under the jurisdiction of the Rep. of Ireland.

Taxing bets in the actual bookie shops would most likely just see the tax being covered by the bookie themselves so it would do absolutely nothing to solve the problem of addiction.

dobman88

You had a reason to go to a betting shop but you've never gambled? Really?

Anyway, I enjoy an odd bet here and there, mostly if I am going to be watching a soccer match just so I have some added interest in the game but I agree that more regulations should be in place to cut people off who clearly have problems. It is identifying the addicted gambler to someone who can afford to bet and lose large amounts is the problem.

It's a lot easier for a barman to cut a person off who is clearly drunk falling round the place but how do you spot the guy who can't afford to lose but is addicted. Also, shops are just advertising tools these days. Most of the gambling is done online which leads punters to the casino games etc. A lucrative business.

Freddie Dodge

Judging by the amount of those scummy betting shops in every town I'd imagine its a fairly big issue OP.
Thankfully I don't get the attraction, cos I've an addictive personality, and the thought of leaving half my weeks wages to one of those parasites apalls me.
So many people I know do it, yet never have money to better themselves or spend on their children or homes. The same people will whine and bitch all day about taxes, the price of petrol, gp care etc. Morons.

Gallowglass

Oisin McConville was fond of the odd flutter i hear

meoklmrk91

A bookies opened up in a small village near me, few doors down from the pub, it was shocking to me that a bookies would be a sustainable village and I didn't think I would last long, still there years later, lads go from there to the pub a few doors up and go between the two all day spending their dole, one seriously sad existence.

PizzamanIRL

Yes it is a problem. Not much else to say really. It's up to the people that need help to get help.

meoklmrk91

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

A bookies opened up in a small village near me, few doors down from the pub, it was shocking to me that a bookies would be a sustainable village and I didn't think I would last long, still there years later, lads go from there to the pub a few doors up and go between the two all day spending their dole, one seriously sad existence.

Can't understand that. Even assuming their rent was all paid and they had zero bills for anything whatsoever it's still only 30 quid a day assuming they're there 6 days a week. I'd love to know where they get the rest of the money from. The ones I can think of aren't exactly the best at gambling either. :P

hfallada

You would find bookies in "wealthy areas" of Dublin. They tend to be in local income areas. The same way the lotto is far more popular with the working class, than the educated upper middle class

Iwasfrozen

Gambling is a very big problem though fortunately not in my family. Yes it should be banned.

PizzamanIRL

On a side note, you also only hear when someone wins €500 but you usually don't hear about the €900 they lost altogether before the 'win'

Knob Longman

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Gambling is a very big problem though fortunately not in my family. Yes it should be banned.

Putting Gambling into the hands of criminals is a great idea.

Lapin

Gambling isn't a problem in itself OP.

Problem gambling is a proplem.

Same as alcohol. But the reason I think problem gambling isn't discussed as much is because alcohol problems are taking centre stage at the moment to the point where one could be forgiven for thinking we're a nation of pissheads.

Betting shops do offer support links to those who have a problem but by the time someone discovers they do need help, they have often found it elsewhere.

But like the barman refusing a drink to a lad who can't stand up - it's not going to solve the lad's problem, because it's not the barman's fault he has the problem to begin with. He's not there to babysit those who can't look after themselves at the expense of those who can.

The same applies to Mssrs Power, Boyle, Hill and Ladbroke.


Now as for the following tomfoolery....

dobman88 wrote: »

You had a reason to go to a betting shop but you've never gambled? Really?

And your point?

I can think of a multitude of reasons why someone who doesn't bet might call into a betting shop. No need to question the OP's reason here. It's irrelavent to the discussion.

Freddie Dodge wrote: »

Judging by the amount of those scummy betting shops in every town I'd imagine its a fairly big issue OP.
Thankfully I don't get the attraction, cos I've an addictive personality, and the thought of leaving half my weeks wages to one of those parasites apalls me.
So many people I know do it, yet never have money to better themselves or spend on their children or homes. The same people will whine and bitch all day about taxes, the price of petrol, gp care etc. Morons.

Why are the betting shops the 'scummy' ones here. Most shops I know are bright, clean, efficient and run by friendly staff. The vast majority of those who use them are responsible, know how much they can afford to lose and stick to their limit.

I'd suggest those people you know who put their betting ahead of their children are the 'scummy' ones here.

Gallowglass wrote: »

Oisin McConville was fond of the odd flutter i hear

So what. Why single out one individual who has publically admitted to having a problem and done something about it. One thing kicking a man when he's down but just as bad kicking him when he's trying to get back up.

PizzamanIRL wrote: »

Yes it is a problem. Not much else to say really. It's up to the people that need help to get help.

It's only a problem for those who need help. Not the vast majority who enjoy a flutter.

hfallada wrote: »

You would find bookies in "wealthy areas" of Dublin. They tend to be in local income areas. The same way the lotto is far more popular with the working class, than the educated upper middle class

Utter bollox.

Just because there are less betting shops in the leafy suburbs doesn't mean those who live there don't have a flutter. Wealthy areas aren't as densely populated as less well off parts of town and rents are higher. This doesn just apply to betting shops. There are a lot less of every type of retailer in somewhere like Foxrock than there would be in the inner city. This doesn't just apply to Dublin. It's the same as anywhere else on these islands.

Those with higher incomes in 'wealthy areas' are more likely to bet online than those than those less advantaged areas where people are less likely to own credit cards.

Addiction as a mental illness doesn't give a fiddlers fúck about social class or educational attainment. At Gamblers annonymous meetings the barrister and the binman sit side by side.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Gambling is a very big problem though fortunately not in my family. Yes it should be banned.

Yes banning gambling will solve all the problems. Of course it will.

So where do you propose to draw the line?

Close down all the betting shops?

Ban the internet?

Abolish sport?

Prohibit the sale of playing cards?

Employ SWAT teams to literally swat all the flies in the land lest a pair of them decide to go for a walk up the wall together?



Good luck !

Iwasfrozen

Knob Longman wrote: »

Putting Gambling into the hands of criminals is a great idea.

The vast vast majority of people do not engage in criminal behaviour.

Lapin wrote: »

Yes banning gambling will solve all the problems. Of course it will.

So where do you propose to draw the line?

Close down all the betting shops?

Ban the internet?

Abolish sport?

Prohibit the sale of playing cards?

Employ SWAT teams to literally swat all the flies in the land lest a pair of them decide to go for a walk up the wall together?

The first one.

Lapin wrote: »

Good luck !

Thanks.

ceadaoin.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The vast vast majority of people do not engage in criminal behaviour.


The first one.




Thanks.

Likewise, the vast majority of people do not engage in problem gambling so why would you advocate banning it?

Lapin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The first one.

So you're content to to close down all the betting shops, putting thousands of people out of work and denying a legitimate form of entertainment for hundreds of thousands more, while failing to address the concerns of problem gamblers who will simply look elsewhere to feed their addiction.

That's a bit like closing down all the pubs because some people are getting cheap booze in off licences and drinking to excess at home.

Strange train of thought there.

Kermit.de.frog

I have no alterior motive for this thread. I have never gambled in my life so maybe I just don't get it. I don't get how someone can get addicted to gambling. I'd rather not find out.

It's the cynicism, manipulation and drearyness of the whole thing i'm just trying to get across. It's a life wrecker.

RE: On the point of betting shops having "opt out" forms. That is yet more cynicism. What addict mindlessly addicted to anything is going to sign a form opting out on their own intuition? The whole idea of addiction is surely that they are incapable of such self control on their drug of choice?

Are these opt out forms for life? How do they implement it? Wouldn't surprise if they were not for life btw.

A2LUE42

What I find scary is that someone sitting at home with their laptop, ipad or phone could lose the house around them, without anyone even realizing that they gamble, let alone have a problem with it.

It is also shocking to see how gambling is now ingrained into so many sports broadcasts and even regular news items. Every sports broadcast has odds on so many things and on some channels there is constant publicity to gamble.

I have seen a few marriages break up when one partner realised that the other had pretty much bankrupted them both.

The guy spending cash in the bookies has to stop when the cash runs out. The person at home with a bunch of credit cards can spend so much more. If they go chasing losses, it can escalate rapidly.

caustic 1

Huge problem and with the amount of young people still at school putting on bets on this that and the other it will continue to be a big problem.

risteard7

If I ever had the opportunity to start a business I would definitely open a bookies shop. Guaranteed to make money.

Slicemeister

I go in for the free coffee. Definitely OP it's a huge problem unspoken of. What amazes me is the free reign they have in the media glamorising the whole shebang, needs to be stopped imo.

kfallon

Be grateful we don't have FOBTs in the shops over here!
They are an absolute disgrace along with cartoon racing/football/F1

Strangely enough the bookies don't want punters betting on horse racing these days!

ancapailldorcha

kfallon wrote: »

Be grateful we don't have FOBTs in the shops over here!
They are an absolute disgrace along with cartoon racing/football/F1

Strangely enough the bookies don't want punters betting on horse racing these days!

They have them in pubs in Australia which is ridiculous.

The cartoon racing, farcical as it is started as a result of the foot and mouth incident years ago if I'm correct. The bookies weren't going to jettison a revenue stream just because real horses were running again.

Buzz Killington the third

wazky wrote: »

Tax it!!

Solves all of Irelands other problems anyway.

Property tax, water tax, health tax... They'd make multiples of all these taxes combined by introducing tax on winnings like most countries have. Even just 10% tax would help a lot of the debt issues that Ireland has.

Akrasia

hfallada wrote: »

You would find bookies in "wealthy areas" of Dublin. They tend to be in local income areas. The same way the lotto is far more popular with the working class, than the educated upper middle class

Cause JP McManus never places a bet?

Gambling is an awful problem. I wonder what percentage of all lump sum payments in Ireland end up being gambled away, inheritance, redundancy payments, lottery winnings, proceeds from the sale of land and property...

It's an incideous industry. The bookies don't make their money from people who use their services for 'entertainment' they make their money from people who are deluded into thinking they can beat the system

Augmerson

I wouldn't have a problem seeing advertisements for betting and gambling on television restricted to later times and with warnings that you should play sensibly....do they already do the latter?

But then what's the point. They sponsor football clubs, they're always in the papers for some stunt.

oceanman

risteard7 wrote: »

If I ever had the opportunity to start a business I would definitely open a bookies shop. Guaranteed to make money.

that's not entirely true, bookies do go out of business sometimes...even the big ones!

KungPao

It ruined me father, and me father's father.

FTA69

While I don't agree with banning gambling, it certainly needs to be heavily regulated. Yes, it's a business that is always going to exist but the reality is that it is an activity which is socially destructive and as such wider society has a right to curtail it as much as practicable. Like many of our laws, people often need to be protected from themselves.

Where I live in London they are opening up at an astonishing rate; with the wider shop simply acting as a conduit through which to bring in electronic gaming machines. These bookies are often set up suspiciously near to Job Centres, mental health hospitals etc. Personally I don't think large corporations who profit from addiction and desperation should have a free reign to establish themselves wherever and whenever they want.

I don't support the criminalisation of gambling, but I do believe the amount of bookies should be tightly regulated and advertising for it should be banned completely.

SEPT 23 1989

I have a couple of small bets every month and when you have a big win its a very big rush

snaphook

It's the sheer proliferation of adverts on TV and other media for it that does it for me.

Mr. CooL ICE

I don't gamble, but I'm all for personal responsibility. If people want to gamble, let them gamble. You're not gonna introduce prohibition cos of some alcoholics.

Also, banning gambling in Ireland would be pretty damn bad. Aside from the horse industry, lots of casino/sportsbook/poker companies and websites are based or have offices here, so outlawing would cost thousands of jobs throughout the country.

Germancarfan

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Are these opt out forms for life? How do they implement it? Wouldn't surprise if they were not for life btw.

self exclusion can be for a period of time of the requester's choice. Life , 6 months 12 months, 2 years. Whatever they want.

Contessa Raven

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Are these opt out forms for life? How do they implement it? Wouldn't surprise if they were not for life btw.

I work in a bookies. We have forms called self-exclusion forms that the customer fills out. They can ban themselves from all shops for life if they wish to. If they have an online account, it automatically gets shut down when they hand the form in.
You would be surprised at how many people actually fill these forms out.

I've had people come in and ask me to fill in forms for their relatives so that they can't gamble but unfortunately it's up to the person themselves to call it quits. We can't take people's choices away from them. If they choose not to acknowledge they have a problem, there's not a lot to be done.

I think bets are taxed anyway. I remember years ago adding 10p to my bet for tax when I was a young fella
I think the bookies just waive it these days, or maybe its abolished?

P_1

Deleted User wrote: »

I think bets are taxed anyway. I remember years ago adding 10p to my bet for tax when I was a young fella
I think the bookies just waive it these days, or maybe its abolished?

In the age of companies based in Gibraltar, Malta, the Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands taxing betting simply won't work

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

In the age of companies based in Gibraltar, Malta, the Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands taxing betting simply won't work

I understand that taxing online bets would be near impossible, but we did have a tax on physical bets years ago. Didnt apply or wasn't enforced in racetracks I think.

I remember in newcastle west, there was only 1 bookies for years (PP) as soon as a few more moved in, the tax disappered.

kfallon

Deleted User wrote: »

I think bets are taxed anyway. I remember years ago adding 10p to my bet for tax when I was a young fella
I think the bookies just waive it these days, or maybe its abolished?

I remember when it was 30%

bnt

Knob Longman wrote: »

Putting Gambling into the hands of criminals is a great idea.

What do you about Las Vegas? Gambling was how criminals went "legit", how they laundered money gained from other criminal activities. Normally laundering costs money, but this way they could use it to make even more money legally. Even with regulation, allowing people to gamble is still a great way to make money.

Here's what Paddy Power says, on the "Why Invest With Us? web page:

And we’re certainly proud of the rate we’re growing: between our first full year as a public company in 2001 and the end of 2012, the Paddy Power Group has achieved compound annual growth of 25% in revenues, 30% in earnings per share, and 33% in dividends per share. So: how are we keeping it up?

While we are always ready to adapt to changes in taxation, regulation, or competition, our business strategy is consistent: to identify large, attractive, regulated markets; and to invest heavily in people, product, value and brand, and leverage its strengths in areas such as mobile and social media, to deliver strong market positions. This strategy has generated strong payback in existing markets and given us the flexibility to enter new ones.

Translation: "we're confident we're going to make lots of money regardless of changes in regulation".

mdwexford

The tax still exists, the bookmaker just pay it themselves these days.

Addicts and degenerates will always find something to be addicted to or a way to blow their money.

Banning gambling is such a nonsense suggestion.
Why should a legitimate form of entertainment be removed from people's lives because a small percentage of people have no self control.

ancapailldorcha

mdwexford wrote: »

The tax still exists, the bookmaker just pay it themselves these days.

Addicts and degenerates will always find something to be addicted to or a way to blow their money.

Banning gambling is such a nonsense suggestion.
Why should a legitimate form of entertainment be removed from people's lives because a small percentage of people have no self control.

One could say the same thing about cannabis and other "drugs". Plenty of people use them and maintain functioning work and social lives.

mdwexford

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

One could say the same thing about cannabis and other "drugs". Plenty of people use them and maintain functioning work and social lives.

Yes because taking drugs which damage your health and are illegal and having a bet or a game of poker are the same thing.

Oh wait, they aren't even close.

ancapailldorcha

mdwexford wrote: »

Yes because taking drugs which damage your health and are illegal and having a bet or a game of poker are the same thing.

Oh wait, they aren't even close.

Alcohol and cigarettes damage your health quite badly so I don't see your point.

Gambling is an addiction as much as drugs or anything else you'd care to mention.

Lapin

Deleted User wrote: »

I think bets are taxed anyway. I remember years ago adding 10p to my bet for tax when I was a young fella
I think the bookies just waive it these days, or maybe its abolished?

The tax is 1% now so the bokkies just absorb it rather than pass it on to the customer.

Charlie McCreevey lowered the rate to entice the industry to keep their profits in Ireland and encourage bookies to increase their levvies to the racing industry upon which they rely.

One of the few sensible moves he made as finance minister before he blew everything else we had.

risteard7 wrote: »

If I ever had the opportunity to start a business I would definitely open a bookies shop. Guaranteed to make money.

Tell that to Ivan Yates.

Akrasia

mdwexford wrote: »

Yes because taking drugs which damage your health and are illegal and having a bet or a game of poker are the same thing.

Oh wait, they aren't even close.

Of course they're close.
Smoking a Joint or two at the weekend is no more damaging than putting a fiver on a horse or the premiership

Smoking joints first thing every morning and continuing all day long is comparably as damaging as excessive gambling.

People steal money to buy drugs, people steal money to gamble.

Drugs can rob people of their future
Gamling can rob people of everything they have and it can drive families apart.