Judge gives mother, guilty of manslaughter, suspended sentence.

Pocoyo

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/judge-gives-woman-suspended-sentence-for-sons-manslaughter-635602.html?utm_source=iosapp&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=sharebutton

How do women keep getting away with murder,She smothered her 8 year old son I am sick of hearing these stories more and more of these stories are being reported and the women tend to get light or no sentences on mental grounds.

An 8 year old child is dead.

Odelay

But it was manslaughter not murder.

WellThen?

"She has been in the Central Mental Hospital since 2012, but no longer meets the criteria for a mental disorder."

So now that she is no longer "mental" she not only gets out of the hospital but also gets to go home? I can't understand it.

Arthur Beesley

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/judge-gives-woman-suspended-sentence-for-sons-manslaughter-635602.html?utm_source=iosapp&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=sharebutton

How do women keep getting away with murder,She smothered her 8 year old son I am sick of hearing these stories more and more of these stories are being reported and the women tend to get light or no sentences on mental grounds.

An 8 year old child is dead.

and the mother can't possibly have been sane.

Pocoyo

Odelay wrote: »

But it was manslaughter not murder.

Smothering a child with a pillow is murder legal definition or not.

Karl Stein

Pocoyo wrote: »

How do women keep getting away with murder

How bad is this women-getting-away-with-murder thing?

Any statistics?

Maphisto

Its a very sad story. A story that she will carry with her for ever.

I don't really see any value for her or society in locking her up. She needs help but prison I'm not so sure.

Fr_Dougal

Karl Stein wrote: »

How bad is this women-getting-away-with-murder thing?

Any statistics?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tragic-mother-cleared-of-murdering-daughter-26345241.html

Pocoyo

Maphisto wrote: »

Its a very sad story. A story that she will carry with her for ever.

I don't really see any value for her or society in locking her up. She needs help but prison I'm not so sure.

But why do you never hear these stories about murdering fathers!
Its awfully sad that his poor child died his life was deemed worthless by the court system if anyone else but his own mother murdered him there would of been prison sentences.

Manach

My reading on criminal law does suggest that women do receive lighter custodial sentences due to a variety of factors, not less their gender. However in spite of the horrible nature of this, given the likelihood of re-offending is very very low, then a suspended sentence, whilst light, might not serve the best interests of society.

Awkward Badger

Pocoyo wrote: »

Smothering a child with a pillow is murder legal definition or not.

She was convicted of manslaughter so she's guilty of manslaughter and can only be sentenced for manslaughter. Clue was in the title of the article you linked to.

"Judge gives woman suspended sentence for son's manslaughter" which you daily mailed for your thread title.

Pocoyo

Awkward Badger wrote: »

She was convicted of manslaughter so she's guilty of manslaughter and can only be convicted for manslaughter. Clue was in the title of the article you link to.

"Judge gives woman suspended sentence for son's manslaughter"

I know but she should have been convicted of murder and my view stands i deem smothering a defenseless child murder. Do you listen to and believe everything the courts or government say or do you only believe this kind of nonsense when it suits your mood at the time?

marienbad

Pocoyo wrote: »

But why do you never hear these stories about murdering fathers!
Its awfully sad that his poor child died his life was deemed worthless by the court system if anyone else but his own mother murdered him there would of been prison sentences.

Each case is taken on its own merits. So it makes no difference how many other examples happened.

It was the only possible verdict and I would like to think if it was a father it would be exactly the same.

LETHAL LADY

I can think of a couple of murder-suicides at the hands of fathers in the past 10 years. The difference between this case and those is the parent responsible also died.

Pocoyo

marienbad wrote: »

Each case is taken on its own merits. So it makes no difference how many other examples happened.

It was the only possible verdict and I would like to think if it was a father it would be exactly the same.

Can you link one case of a ''Father'' murdering his child and receiving a suspended sentence on mental health grounds?

Maphisto

Pocoyo wrote: »

But why do you never hear these stories about murdering fathers!
.

I don't know tbh - I suspect that the bond between Mother and child is different to Father and child. Women, I suspect commit significantly less violent offences than men.

Its awfully sad that his poor child died his life was deemed worthless by the court system if anyone else but his own mother murdered him there would of been prison sentences

I don't quite get your point there. If a crime is commited against you assault or robbery - your pain has no worth unless the perpetrator gets jail time?

Having his Mother serve time won't do anything for the son.

323

Odelay wrote: »

But it was manslaughter not murder.

Seems to be the case with every murder committed in Ireland nowadays.
That is, the ones that actually get as far as a court.

Starmixed

Maphisto wrote: »

Its a very sad story. A story that she will carry with her for ever.

I don't really see any value for her or society in locking her up. She needs help but prison I'm not so sure.

Would you say the same fir a man??

She was declared sane and sent home from the hospital. Therefore she shouldn't be allowed to use that card.

Scum. Gallows is the best place.

Bongalongherb

It's murder, plain and simple. A suspended sentence :eek: the whole justice system in this backward country is a shambles.

Awkward Badger

Pocoyo wrote: »

I know but she should have been convicted of murder and my view stands i deem smothering a defenseless child murder. Do you listen to and believe everything the courts or government say or do you only believe this kind of nonsense when it suits your mood at the time?

What kind of nonsense ? I don't believe anything I'm just going on the facts that I know. What I know is she was deemed to be unwell at the time she did it and was convicted of manslaughter. That's a fact. What you have is an opinion and an eagerness to sensationalise.

I agree with Maphisto too. I don't see much benefit to locking her up over getting her help.

egghead.

Starmixed wrote: »

Would you say the same fir a man??

She was declared sane and sent home from the hospital. Therefore she shouldn't be allowed to use that card.

Scum. Gallows is the best place.

People do terrible things when depressed, ita an illness, the brain doesn't be thinking straight, bastard of a disease.

Awkward Badger

Starmixed wrote: »

Would you say the same fir a man??

She was declared sane and sent home from the hospital. Therefore she shouldn't be allowed to use that card.

Scum. Gallows is the best place.

Its not like she's walking out the door with no more said about it.

Having heard evidence from a consultant psychiatrist that there is a suitable voluntary in-patient placement for her in Cork, Mr Justice Barry White imposed a seven-year suspended sentence, on an undertaking that she remains there until such time she is considered fit to return to the community.

Maphisto

Starmixed wrote: »

Would you say the same fir a man??

Possibly.

She was declared sane and sent home from the hospital. Therefore she shouldn't be allowed to use that card.

Card? Its not a game of Monopoly
Mr Justice Barry White said the case was "particularly tragic" as Diane Ward was "clearly very troubled" at the time of the killing at her home in Harrison's Place, Charleville in September 2012

Scum. Gallows is the best place.

Of course because we're renaming the country Saudi Arabia.

El Weirdo

Pocoyo wrote: »

I know but she should have been convicted of murder ...

Not according to people far more learned than you, who are also in possession of all the facts pertaining to this particular case.

Pawwed Rig

Maphisto wrote: »

I don't know tbh - I suspect that the bond between Mother and child is different to Father and child.

All mothers and all fathers? Different how? Relevant how?

323

Maphisto wrote: »

.............Of course because we're renaming the country Saudi Arabia.

Naw. Beheading is the preferred method of execution in Saudi Arabia.
Starmixed mentioned the gallows.
Case like this, I'm good with either.

problemchimp

Starmixed wrote: »

Would you say the same fir a man??

She was declared sane and sent home from the hospital. Therefore she shouldn't be allowed to use that card.

Scum. Gallows is the best place.

Calm down

Reformed Character

Pocoyo wrote: »

Smothering a child with a pillow is murder legal definition or not.

No its not.
Except if you are an internet crusader constantly on the lookout for your next reason for moral outrage in hope of thanks!:rolleyes:

problemchimp

323 wrote: »

Naw. Beheading is the preferred method of execution in Saudi Arabia.
Awkward Badger mentioned the gallows.
Case like this, I'm good with either.

I hope you retain your good mental health, I'd hate to see you executed or pushed off your high horse.

Pocoyo

Reformed Character wrote: »

No its not.
Except if you are an internet crusader constantly on the lookout for your next reason for moral outrage in hope of thanks!:rolleyes:

Internet crusader,I started on thread about a child abuctor on the run and this.

You try to hard do i have a bully?? Are you my personal nemesis? :pac:

Maphisto

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

All mothers and all fathers? Different how? Relevant how?

I don't know. Which is why I prefaced the remark as I did.

I think courts view the maternal bond as tighter.

Pocoyo

Maphisto wrote: »

I don't know. Which is why I prefaced the remark as I did.

I think courts view the maternal bond as tighter.

Do you believe that? Parenting in this day and age is about conditioning,Many fathers are just as capable and have just as strong of a bond with their children as mothers do.

marienbad

Pocoyo wrote: »

Can you link one case of a ''Father'' murdering his child and receiving a suspended sentence on mental health grounds?

Can you link one case where a father went to jail ?

Pocoyo

marienbad wrote: »

Can you link one case where a father went to jail ?

http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affairs/father-jailed-for-murdering-baby-son/

Pocoyo

marienbad wrote: »

Can you link one case where a father went to jail ?

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CFsQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishcentral.com%2Fnews%2Ffather-linked-to-embezzlement-killed-his-two-sons-217567611-237767141.html&ei=K--6U-q8IcOp7Aaz-IHoCQ&usg=AFQjCNHovbJ9DjKhSS498e16KtgnzVJfaw&sig2=UM0xkLCCz006ev3YJVZTSQ

Reformed Character

Pocoyo wrote: »

Internet crusader,I started on thread about a child abuctor on the run and this.

You try to hard do i have a bully?? Are you my personal nemesis? :pac:

He was a failed child abductor and he was not on the run, more hyperbole in hope of thanks.
As for this thread, she didn't murder anyone and so once again you are blowing things out of proportion.

Are there many murder cases where the perpetrator could be described as mentally stable at the time?

Awkward Badger

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affairs/father-jailed-for-murdering-baby-son/

Not so sure that the difference between that case and this is the gender of the parent.

During the trial, evidence was given that showed the death was due to severe brain swelling that cut of the oxygen supply to Cameron’s brain.

Dr Peter Ingram, Deputy State Pathologist for Nothern Ireland, told the jury that he had found a number of bruises to both of Cameron’s arms, legs ,throat, chin and torso.

The doctor also discovered 14 rib fractures believed to be typical injuries related to child abuse.
Cameron had been in the care of his father for two days, following Leslie’s split from Cameron’s mother Sheree Black, before being brought to the hospital where he eventually died.

Judge Mr Justice Ben Stephens told Leslie had shown no insight or remorse for his actions, describing him as a “dishonest and deeply manipulative individual”.

And the other case you linked to hasn't even gone to trial yet.

Maphisto

Pocoyo wrote: »

Do you believe that? ,

Well I certainly believe the part where I said I don't know.

Parenting in this day and age is about conditioning

I don't know what that means.

Many fathers are just as capable and have just as strong of a bond with their children as mothers do.

OK, but you are agreeing with my point (which was in itself not a stong one), but by saying that "many fathers are just as capable" you suggest that a proportion are not. And what are they as capable as - Mothers!

marienbad

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affairs/father-jailed-for-murdering-baby-son/

Thanks for that. Not comparing like with like though. I would assume if this lad had been left with mother for 2 days and got the same injuries she would also be in jail.

Depression is a terrible,terrible thing . Most people have no idea.

Pocoyo

Maphisto wrote: »

OK, but you are agreeing with my point (which was in itself not a stong one), but by saying that "many fathers are just as capable" you suggest that a proportion are not. And what are they as capable as - Mothers!

You were the one quoting a legal system that devalues fathers and acts against their human rights.

What are your views on the issue you failed to respond.

Pocoyo

marienbad wrote: »

Thanks for that. Not comparing like with like though. I would assume if this lad had been left with mother for 2 days and got the same injuries she would also be in jail.

Depression is a terrible,terrible thing . Most people have no idea.

Rubbish link me a case of a father escaping jail on grounds of mental health.
Can dads not get depression and then murder their children,Or is this simply a female infliction that negates all evil and responsibility?

Reformed Character

Pocoyo wrote: »

Rubbish link me a case of a father escaping jail on grounds of mental health.
Can dads not get depression and then murder their children,Or is this simply a female infliction that negates all evil and responsibility?

There was no murder, why do you keep going on about murder when no murder occurred?

Reformed Character

Reformed Character wrote: »

There was no murder, why do you keep going on about murder when no murder occurred?

And Sean Quinn didn't know what he was signing.

Maphisto

Pocoyo wrote: »

You were the one quoting a legal system that devalues fathers and acts against their human rights.

What are your views on the issue you failed to respond.

I'm not sure what you want me to respond to.

Do I think the bond between a Mother and child is different to that of a Father and child. If that's the question I already said that I don't know, but I suspect it to be the case.

dirtyden

Whilst suffering from a severe mental illness this poor woman did something which will torment her more than any life sentence. How anyone can see any benefit in sending her to prison is beyond me. She needs help not punishment. She has been forgiven by the rest of her family who understand that she was not in a proper mental state when she smothered her son. I don't see how anyone here can be a better judge. The trial judge appears to have been on the money here in my opinion.

marienbad

Pocoyo wrote: »

Rubbish link me a case of a father escaping jail on grounds of mental health.
Can dads not get depression and then murder their children,Or is this simply a female infliction that negates all evil and responsibility?

Do you believe in depression ? The issue here is that she is now getting the medical care that if it had been provided earlier may have averted this tragedy.

As for providing a link on a similar case involving a father I wouldn't even know where to look and don't really see the relevance. Each case is decided on its own merits.

This case was a depressed woman ,your link was a pathologically violent man , not even in the same continent never mind the same ballpark.

Pawwed Rig

Interesting blog on insanity verdicts relating to killings in Ireland

http://abigailrieley.com/wordpress/index.php/2009/02/04/case-mind-boggling-sadness/

Pro Hoc Vice

Bongalongherb wrote: »

It's murder, plain and simple. A suspended sentence :eek: the whole justice system in this backward country is a shambles.

I really am getting fed up to my eye teeth of this rubbish, this was a mother who through her own hand took the life of her child, a child she gave birth to and raised for eight years. She while suffering a terrible illness did that, and she will have to live with that horrible fact for her own life, I can only guess what this women must go through on a daily basis.

I think we have a compassionate legal system, that thankfully does not take an eye for an eye, but as a society we give even to those who have done things none of us can forgive, but yes we give compassion.

Could you have gone into that court, could you have listened to that horrific evidence and then against all you feel find that most difficult of things compassion and love, I hope you could or otherwise we are undeserving of justice or compassion. There but for the grace etc. We thankfully are human with some touch of kindness, but after reading some of the post on here I wonder.

dj jarvis

egghead. wrote: »

People do terrible things when depressed, ita an illness, the brain doesn't be thinking straight, bastard of a disease.

i agree 100% - but if it was a man suffering the same illness as this mother was, i dont think he would be getting a suspended sentence and allowed go on his way.

there does appear to be double standard towards men - and i can see why that would wind some people up.

a neighbour of mine back in the early 80's knifed her husband , killed him stone dead on the kitchen floor ,
at her trial , she claimed he was violently abusing her , but had no police reports , or medical proof to back up her claim - still walked , was even out on bail until the trail,
dont get me wrong , this lad was a prick by all accounts , but from what i could gather locally at the time - she attacked him as he was eating his dinner.

i dont think a bloke would ever walk from that one

but, as you said , a bastard of an illness

hatrickpatrick

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

and the mother can't possibly have been sane.

Not necessarily disagreeing with the sentencing in this case, but the presumption of insanity for mothers who kill their children is literally never applied to fathers who do the same.

Before any facts are known, the general reaction to a child killing mother is "I hope she gets the help she deserves", while the reaction to a child killing after is "what an evil monster".

Am I the only one who finds this trend deeply offensive?