Galway Airport is Back

Aerohead

Cant find a link buts its headline news on local radio here, Galway Airport is to open again to General Aviation, including refuelling etc, its going to be operated by the people who own Weston Airport in Dublin, great news especially for the GA community and refuelling the emergency service helicopters.

gaff85

I also seen that they are trying to reintroduce the Dublin to Galway flights up to 3 per day.

Storm 10

Great News , I wish them every success and hopefully some time in the future we will see some scheduled flights from Galway again, no reason with the economy on the rise again why it could not happen.

poteen

Storm 10 wrote: »

no reason with the economy on the rise again why it could not happen.

When did this start :rolleyes:

Storm 10

poteen wrote: »

When did this start :rolleyes:

Are you not listening to what our glorious leaders are telling us :D

L1011

Zero chance of commercial flights; end to end city centre to city centre time is worse than a bus. Only reopened domestic routes I can see happening are ORK and maybe LDY if the NI govt want to PSO it.

All the other flights really depended on the Dublin PSO to support them by virtue of having the aircraft, staff and base there.

Aerohead

MYOB wrote: »

Zero chance of commercial flights; end to end city centre to city centre time is worse than a bus. Only reopened domestic routes I can see happening are ORK and maybe LDY if the NI govt want to PSO it.

All the other flights really depended on the Dublin PSO to support them by virtue of having the aircraft, staff and base there.

To the best of my knowledge they are not looking at commercial flights going to concentrate on the GA etc, they never operated to Derry and I could never see a market for that one, any chance they have would be Manchester and London but you need an airline first, but who knows what the future holds.

L1011

Aerohead wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge they are not looking at commercial flights going to concentrate on the GA etc, they never operated to Derry and I could never see a market for that one, any chance they have would be Manchester and London but you need an airline first, but who knows what the future holds.

I meant Derry ex-Dublin. I don't see any market for any ex-Galway flights at all - to anywhere. NOC, SNN *and* DUB are too close.

Aerohead

In august 2009 two million passengers had used the Airport to date and also in that month over 40,000 used the Airport so there is a market there its just how do you go about it, lets wait and see what happens but I really do wish them the very best of luck.

gordongekko

There was something about it on gbfm earlier. Only came in at the end but it sounded like they are claiming that the factories are call for it to remain open.

L1011

Aerohead wrote: »

In august 2009 two million passengers had used the Airport to date and also in that month over 40,000 used the Airport so there is a market there its just how do you go about it, lets wait and see what happens but I really do wish them the very best of luck.

In August 2009 there wasn't a motorway to Dublin, and a motorway to north of Gort either on the way down to Shannon. Within 36 months there'll be motorway *to* Shannon and a to north of Tuam on the way up to Knock.

Market's gone. Most of the passengers were to Dublin which is now quicker *by bus* let alone driving. Other than that, you can drive for a fairly short time and get on a jet or 70 seater prop in most cases as opposed to a 25 year old 40 seater to the other destinations that were served.

FWVT

Are they going to give the GA visitor a proper welcome or will it be like previously? (I haven't flown there personally so can't really comment, but the very reason that I chose not to was because of the negative comments I was reading here and elsewhere!).

Let's hope it opens up as proper local airport, attracting all levels of GA, whatever about commercial. Galway is too big not to have at least a decent airport for private visitors from the UK and wider afield. If it were relaunched with a positive attitude then I'm sure it would get the visitors.

Stovepipe

The inability to get jets in there was also an issue, as only a three-quarters filled 146 could fit. For a city with such an alleged reputation as a great party/great atmosphere place, the travelling public stayed away from the airport in droves. There was also little or no marketing of cargo, so local industry didn't use the place as a cargo outlet.The island flights moved to Inverin so that was gone and their imposition of ludicrous fees for GA drove away the light aircraft crowd and the helicopter companies for the Races and there was no attempt at all to market it to the UK/European GA market as a tourism destination. I sincerely wish them the best but they'd have to up their game to make it work.

regards
Stovepipe

Lapin

Linko

Storm 10

Lapin wrote: »

Linko

Could not find link but it's on the news all day on local radio, for some reason they have not updated their website, Google news on Galway Bay FM

Lapin

Storm 10 wrote: »

Could not find link but it's on the news all day on local radio, for some reason they have not updated their website, Google news on Galway Bay FM

Is the link not working ?

Try http://www.advertiser.ie/galway

Then click on 'News' and then 'Local News' in the drop down menu.

You should find the piece there on the top right.

Or try this thread in the Galway city forum here on Boards.

suasdaguna2

Maybe a weston carnmore shuttle? Might be some merit in that.

Lapin

suasdaguna2 wrote: »

Maybe a weston carnmore shuttle? Might be some merit in that.

How?

If a connection to an international airport is not sustainable It's hard to see how a service to a private airport even 20 minutes closer to Galway by road and further from the city centre than Dublin Airport with no transport links or onward flight connections would work.

folbotcar

I commented on the Galway city thread that it all seems aspirational rather than realistic. I cannot see any chance of an air taxi service to anywhere from Galway. That requires an Air Operators Certificate and as they are extremely difficult and expensive to obtain. So 'Carnmore Aviation' will not be getting one soon as at the moment they are nothing more than a shell company. They could use another operators AOC and the two that are most likely are Aer Arann Islands and The NFC. Somehow I can't see either being willing to jump in with both feet and cooperate with that company.

Carnmore aviation has only existed one month:

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Carnmore-Aviation-Limited-544241

Carnmore Aviation Limited was set up on Wed the 21st of May 2014 in Co. Galway. Their current status is Normal. The company's current directors Mark Conneely and Brian Conneely have been the director of 13 other Irish companies between them; 2 of which are now closed.

Commercial airline operations are not likely. However there is no reason it cannot work as a GA airport. But it's days as a regional airport are over.

Stovepipe and others, it's worth pointing out that the management with the arrogant attitude to GA are long gone much to relief of the airport staff. Time of course will tell if the combination of the new owners and the Conneelys' management will be an improvement. There is a lot of unrest in Weston. Not such a good precedent.

I was told that another party was interested in buying or managing the airport, this time an aviation company who might have been in a position to operate AOC work. But it seems their proposal was rejected.

I wonder if this is another example of the Galway mafia at work? The Conneelys' may just be builders but after all they're from Galway.

So we have a situation in that the airport is now in the hands, again, of a bunch of people with little or no understanding or experience of aviation.

We all know how well that worked last time.

ted1

Will they have flights to ther Arann Islands ? Much handier than the other airport

PeteF

A commuter service from Carnmore to Weston could work out well enough. Weston is right next to the city, you could land and be out of there is no time at all.

Who would operate it though? The airport owners??

Aerohead

folbotcar wrote: »

I commented on the Galway city thread that it all seems aspirational rather than realistic. I cannot see any chance of an air taxi service to anywhere from Galway. That requires an Air Operators Certificate and as they are extremely difficult and expensive to obtain. So 'Carnmore Aviation' will not be getting one soon as at the moment they are nothing more than a shell company. They could use another operators AOC and the two that are most likely are Aer Arann Islands and The NFC. Somehow I can't see either being willing to jump in with both feet and cooperate with that company.

Carnmore aviation has only existed one month:

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Carnmore-Aviation-Limited-544241





Commercial airline operations are not likely. However there is no reason it cannot work as a GA airport. But it's days as a regional airport are over.

Stovepipe and others, it's worth pointing out that the management with the arrogant attitude to GA are long gone much to relief of the airport staff. Time of course will tell if the combination of the new owners and the Conneelys' management will be an improvement. There is a lot of unrest in Weston. Not such a good precedent.

I was told that another party was interested in buying or managing the airport, this time an aviation company who might have been in a position to operate AOC work. But it seems their proposal was rejected.

I wonder if this is another example of the Galway mafia at work? The Conneelys' may just be builders but after all they're from Galway.

So we have a situation in that the airport is now in the hands, again, of a bunch of people with little or no understanding or experience of aviation.

We all know how well that worked last time.

I don't know why you say they have no experience in Aviation, they purchased Weston Airport over two years ago and they operate it so they must know something, I listened back to the Keith Finnegan Show on Galway Bay FM last night and heard that they had purchased all of the electronic flight aids at the Airport but they did not remove any of them, everything that was part of the Airport is still there just to switch them on so all that is now required is a licence from the IAA which is in train and staff to operate it and its open again.

Starmixed

Would Cityjet not have a market? Avros / bae 146 can take off and land on a 6 pence.

L1011

Starmixed wrote: »

Would Cityjet not have a market? Avros / bae 146 can take off and land on a 6 pence.

Can't operate with a full load; and anyway those don't have long to live at Cityjet.

And there's still no actual passengers anyway.

ben.schlomo

ted1 wrote: »

Will they have flights to ther Arann Islands ? Much handier than the other airport

No.

Storm 10

I flew from Galway to Malaga on a chartered Aer Arann BAE146, there were 100 on board, when the Airport was open British Airways used to arrive with a 146 charter flight from London on the Wednesday and Thursday of the Galway Races.

Starmixed

MYOB wrote: »

Can't operate with a full load; and anyway those don't have long to live at Cityjet.

And there's still no actual passengers anyway.

You mean they're getting rid of the avros? Didn't they only recently update them from bae 146's. Not a bit of a waste those Aircraft are perfectly fine.

Does aer Aran (now stobart air) still do the island run?

highlydebased

Starmixed wrote: »

Does aer Aran (now stobart air) still do the island run?

The Island flights are done by Aer Arann Islands which is separate to Aer Arann/Stobart

L1011

Starmixed wrote: »

You mean they're getting rid of the avros? Didn't they only recently update them from bae 146's. Not a bit of a waste those Aircraft are perfectly fine.

They "updated" them with second hand, ex-Northwest Airlink commuter craft that would have had a hard life. They're 14 to 17 years old, they're horribly fuel inefficient compared to modern craft and have far higher maintenance costs what with having four obscure turboshaft derived engines as opposed to two modern plants.

The new owner has announced plans to replace them. I could easily see the F50s outliving them if they don't spin VLM back out again.

folbotcar

PeteF wrote: »

A commuter service from Carnmore to Weston could work out well enough. Weston is right next to the city, you could land and be out of there is no time at all.

Who would operate it though? The airport owners??

Neither the owners or 'Carnmore aviation' have any experience operating aircraft and would need to attract an AOC operator. I can't see that happening.

folbotcar

Aerohead wrote: »

I don't know why you say they have no experience in Aviation, they purchased Weston Airport over two years ago and they operate it so they must know something, I listened back to the Keith Finnegan Show on Galway Bay FM last night and heard that they had purchased all of the electronic flight aids at the Airport but they did not remove any of them, everything that was part of the Airport is still there just to switch them on so all that is now required is a licence from the IAA which is in train and staff to operate it and its open again.

You make it sound simple. But let me tell you nothing in aviation is simple. The fact that the airport let the licence lapse complicates the situation. It's not like renewing your driving licence.

Plus there's the problem that the airport no longer owns it's ILS or NDB or any fire cover. They were sold to what is now Carnmore Aviation. In other words they control their use.

It's beginning to look like a coup.

As for their 'aviation experience', ask anyone at Weston about that.

FWVT

When you see a developer snapping up two struggling airports (i.e. large areas of land) at bargain prices then their motives must be called into question. Maybe they will wait it out for a couple of years and say they gave the aviation a shot, then knock it down and develop real estate when the economy bounces back? Call me a cynic, but...

L1011

FWVT wrote: »

When you see a developer snapping up two struggling airports (i.e. large areas of land) at bargain prices then their motives must be called into question. Maybe they will wait it out for a couple of years and say they gave the aviation a shot, then knock it down and develop real estate when the economy bounces back? Call me a cynic, but...

Chances of rezoning Weston, across two different counties and with one side effectively Kildare's greenbelt, are extremely slim and would be prohibitively costly no matter which route you took.

BonkeyDonker

MYOB wrote: »

Chances of rezoning Weston, across two different counties and with one side effectively Kildare's greenbelt, are extremely slim and would be prohibitively costly no matter which route you took.

And it is not like the airport in Galway is in the middle of a built up area with little room for other building around it.

One thing re the Weston-Carnmore shuttle. HP operate facilities in both cities, and are located close to Weston at one end. That could possibly be worth entertaining, especially with a small twin or the likes. But even then it would probably not be worth while.

Lapin

PeteF wrote: »

A commuter service from Carnmore to Weston could work out well enough. Weston is right next to the city, you could land and be out of there is no time at all.

Weston is further out from the city centre than Dublin Airport is.

folbotcar

Whatever about my negative attitude to these so called plans for Galway. I do happen to know there are serious people who are now actively working well away from newspaper headlines and radio shows who hope to turn around the fortunes of GA in this country. People who know about aviation not dreamers with money.

When they announce their intentions it will be solid plans not air fairy hopes and dreams like that proposed seaplane operation and now this vague proposal for air taxi services from Carnmore.

ted1

ben.schlomo wrote: »

No.

That's a shame. For folks coming from dublin its a much better airport a would prove popular

ben.schlomo

ted1 wrote: »

That's a shame. For folks coming from dublin its a much better airport a would prove popular

Those flights are never overly busy so cant imagine it would be that popular.

Stovepipe

This island has already enough existing airport infrastructure and while I welcome the reopening of Galway, I'd be seriously interested to know how they expect to make a buck from it. The Western seaboard does not lack for airports and two small new airfields have not been opened for an island airlink. Unless they plan to do a Nissan and drop a factory in the middle of it...

Aerohead

HP, Boston Scientific and Thermo King were regular users of the Airport with company Lear Jets coming in from the States, in fact the week it was shut down there were two on the ramp, so hopefully that business will return again.

Reoil

I flew from Galway to BHD back in 2007 or so with Aer Arann. Nice low flight.

folbotcar

Stovepipe wrote: »

This island has already enough existing airport infrastructure and while I welcome the reopening of Galway, I'd be seriously interested to know how they expect to make a buck from it.

It is as you know an aviation truism that in order to make small fortune in aviation you need to start with a large fortune. Now here we have someone with a large fortune stepping in.

There's another article in the Galway Independent which is a free rag so we can assume it's essentially a press release from source.

http://www.galwayindependent.com/20140709/news/flights-to-resume-at-galway-airport-S40971.html

Again it's full of dreamy possibilities.

The establishment of a link between Weston and Biggin Hill Airport London is currently being considered, and there is a possibility that a Galway-Weston-London route could be established for executives in the future, however scheduled commercial flights are “not on the radar” at the moment, according to director Brian Conneely.

A 'Galway-Weston-London route'. What is this. 1935? Are they going to use DH Dragons or Rapides? Maybe they mean to bring the Iolar back into commercial service. If you want to fly to London, you go direct. At least he knocks the idea of scheduled services on the head.

One bit of good news is that they will be offering fuel at competitive
prices, they say.

Medical emergency services will also be retained at Galway Airport, with the facility continuing to provide services for medivac and search and rescue craft.

There were no Medical emergency services at Galway. It was just a refuelling stop like any other.

The rest is waffle about training:

Carnmore Aviation Ltd is expected to approach similar companies to base some of their business in Galway, or potentially establish a European base for aviation training and education in Galway. “We would hope to become an area of excellence for aviation training,” said Mr Conneely.

I suppose this was part of the spiel to sell it to the councils who of course know nothing about aviation. It seemed to work though.

It'll be interesting to see what actually happens. The only way they can make a buck from it is to keep it small with low costs. If they try to turn it into Galway Airport Mk2, there is no way it can work. If there is an attempt to re licence it as a public airport, complete with navaids, full fire cover, ATC etc. Then I can't see them making any money.

As it is they have no tenants, the skydive operation were forced to move out even though they were a source of income which kept the place open until last November.

I hate being so negative about it but we've seen this stuff all before. Optimistic press releases are not the same as concrete proposals.

Aerohead

folbotcar wrote: »

There were no Medical emergency services at Galway. It was just a refuelling stop like any other. I hate being so negative about it but we've seen this stuff all before. Optimistic press releases are not the same as concrete proposals.

Well negative you are, could you not be optimistic and hope it works out, as for medical emergencies the Air Corps Casa has airlifted quite a number of critical patients to the UK for transplants etc,

There have also been a number of people airlifted into Galway from overseas who got ill or had accidents while on holidays by insurance companies bringing them home and don't ask but I have first hand knowledge of this. The opening of the Airport should be greeted with hope and not negative comments, there was more happening out there than refuelling of helicopters.

Stovepipe

Well, if you want it to work as an airport, then potential users like the Air Corps, Coastguard and business jet operators would probably not be entirely happen at the prospect of there being no active fire cover on hand. In a lot of cases, insurance companies will not cover an aircraft if it uses an airport with no functioning navaids or active fire cover. If the reborn airport does not have these, then it is effectively staying as a Class G airfield for light GA stuff and can only operate in daylight. If it can't open at night or after dark,then it's reducing it's ability to make money, as some operators will want such operation available, and not just on very expensive call-out either. Apart from that, you have to have active sitting tenants, such as flight schools, maintenance, flying clubs, private hangarage and even on-site factory space for third party manufacturing, such as Sligo has, to pay the basic bills. It's quite a difficult juggling act. People who may come across as negative about this, such as me, would genuinely wish them success but simply, have heard all this before and can be understandably cynical about it.

regards
Stovepipe

Chicken1

Stovepipe wrote: »

Well, if you want it to work as an airport, then potential users like the Air Corps, Coastguard and business jet operators would probably not be entirely happen at the prospect of there being no active fire cover on hand. In a lot of cases, insurance companies will not cover an aircraft if it uses an airport with no functioning navaids or active fire cover. If the reborn airport does not have these, then it is effectively staying as a Class G airfield for light GA stuff and can only operate in daylight. If it can't open at night or after dark,then it's reducing it's ability to make money, as some operators will want such operation available, and not just on very expensive call-out either. Apart from that, you have to have active sitting tenants, such as flight schools, maintenance, flying clubs, private hangarage and even on-site factory space for third party manufacturing, such as Sligo has, to pay the basic bills. It's quite a difficult juggling act. People who may come across as negative about this, such as me, would genuinely wish them success but simply, have heard all this before and can be understandably cynical about it.

regards
Stovepipe

Don't know where you got the story of no fire cover, the fire trucks from Galway Airport are currently at Weston Airport as are some of the former staff of the Airport, they will be moved back when it goes operational. I was at Weston recently and saw them there, they could not operate without fire cover stands to reason.

notharrypotter

potentially establish a European base for aviation training and education in Galway. “We would hope to become an area of excellence for aviation training,” said Mr Conneely.

College Ireland

the fire trucks from Galway Airport are currently at Weston Airport

the former staff of the Airport, they will be moved back when it goes operational.

Wishful thinking?

Post 458 of Weston thread re ATC staffing.

Weston has them. Weston needs them.

New staff will be needed and likely new equipment.

Aer Corp Dauphin crash in Waterford report page 99 item 16

The absence of a qualified and licensed Air Traffic Control Officer or Aerodrome Flight Information Services Officer eroded the safety net available to the crew during their mission particularly in relation to the provision of meteorological information.

It is very unlikely that emergency services would use the reopened Airport without proper ground crew and equipement.

The former qualified staff would appear to be dispersed.

How many if gainfully employed elsewhere would take a punt on returning?

Air Corps Casa has airlifted quite a number of critical patients to the UK for transplants etc,

Do you have figures to back this up?

phonypony

"The absence of a qualified and licensed Air Traffic Control Officer or Aerodrome Flight Information Services Officer eroded the safety net available to the crew during their mission particularly in relation to the provision of meteorological information. "

Could easily be dealt with by an AWOS or ASOS system as with the USA. Uncontrolled fields aren't really a problem either. IAA and the wider GA community need to think outside the box instead of conforming to the 'norm' regarding GA.

I'd say a nice uncontrolled GA airfield with pilot controlled lighting could do quite well if night VFR was allowed outside a control zone too...

folbotcar

Fascinatingly since my last post information has come my way which changes everything. At this point I'll refrain from further comment.

But it's all good for the airport and GA in Ireland.

Storm 10

folbotcar wrote: »

Fascinatingly since my last post information has come my way which changes everything. At this point I'll refrain from further comment.

But it's all good for the airport and GA in Ireland.

Go on and tell us what you know, you are saying this for the last few days

Lapin

Interesting if somewhat strange proposal here.

From the Connacht Tribune.

A radical proposal has been put forward for the resumption of flights in and out of the closed Galway Airport – by the rival Knock Airport.

Management at the Mayo facility said yesterday that they were willing to enter discussions with the owners of Galway Airport about the possibility.

Passenger services were discontinued at Galway Airport three years ago when the Government pulled the subvention the facility received.

Indeed the amount of activity had dramatically reduced at the airport in the years up to its closure.

But there was a surprise twist to the many controversies surrounding the facility at Carnmore at a meeting of Galway County Council yesterday.

Knock Airport management made a presentation to county councillors outlining the benefits the airport had to County Galway in terms of tourism numbers and investment.

They were basically looking for Galway County Council to invest money in the airport. They are making a similar plea to other county councils.

The airport in Carnmore was purchased jointly by Galway County Council and Galway City Council for €1.1 million.

Acting County Manager Jim Cullen informed the meeting that a feasibility study would be carried out in the near future to determine how best to use the 115 acre site.

Mr Cullen said that everything would be considered, from aviation to agriculture and even aquaculture at the site, which is currently rented out to Carnmore Aviation Limited.

However, some councillors rubbished the idea that passenger flights would ever take off from Carnmore in the future because of its limitations regarding the size of aircraft it can accommodate.

highlydebased

No doubt Knock would love to see that happen to take a few pax away from Shannon!

edit
Also just found this which clarifies it somewhat
http://galwaybayfm.ie/knock-airport-rows-back-future-collaboration-galway-airport/

Galway Bay fm newsroom – Management at Knock airport has rowed back on considering future commercial collaboration with Galway Airport.

Following a presentation at this week’s meeting of Galway County Council, members were asked to consider investing in the future of Knock Airport.

Councillor James Charity asked if there was a possibility of a future collaboration with Galway Airport which would see passenger services operating out of the Carnmore facility.

He was told that Knock Airport is ‘open to suggestions,’ and willing to sit down and discuss options with the owners of Galway Airport.

However, in a statement issued this morning, Knock Airport has rowed back on this committment, saying that it’s not in its remit or part of any future development plans.

Speaking on Galway Talks, Marketing Manager at Knock Airport Donal Healy says while they’re willing to discuss business practices, aviation services are off the cards.