Care bags for homeless - your suggestions please

Recondite49

Dear all,

A few friends and I have decided to help some of the homeless people around Cork by packing up care bags for them. See an example of this concept here.

As the resident Survivalist and the only one of us with an eBay account I've volunteered to create a list of items we'll include in the bags and have given this a lot of thought.

We're looking at a maximum cost of around 10 Euro per bag, so I'm hoping to stock up from the Eurosaver places.

I went out today and put together a knapsack with the following items:

Mini First Aid Kit
Small pack Andrex Wipes
Roll on deodorant
Bottle Shower gel
Metal camping mug
Pack of mints
Toothbrush & Toothpaste

I was also going to suggest that we add a sandwich or some fruit to be placed in each bag on the day we actually give them away.

I know that as Survivalists you have all considered scenarios where people are thrust on their resources and have either prepared or know how to prepare Bug Out Bags so I can't think of anyone better than all of you to ask if you think there's anything that should be added or taken away from this list.

All thoughts are welcome.

N.B I hope the Moderators will understand that the reason I am posting this topic in the Survivalism forum is because I want to draw specifically on the expertise on Survivalists. I also hope you won't allow this thread to degenerate into a discussion about the merits or otherwise of helping the homeless. My money and time is my own to spend as I please.

Moreover if anyone is wondering why I have taken it upon myself to help the homeless directly rather than donate or volunteer for a larger organisation, then you really don't belong in the Survivalism section!

Fiolina

Nice idea OP. I know in Dublin some of the groups that help the homeless are always appealing for socks and underwear so that might be an idea. Good luck.

Recondite49

Fiolina wrote: »

Nice idea OP. I know in Dublin some of the groups that help the homeless are always appealing for socks and underwear so that might be an idea. Good luck.

Many thanks, I'll bear that in mind - was thinking maybe a Penneys voucher instead? That way they could buy their own underwear/socks? I'm trying to make the bags as Unisex as possible you see to keep things simple.

Timfy

Stamps, paper and a pen. If just one person decides to use them to reach out to someone then it has to be a good thing. Also a small laminated card with as many helpline details as you can find. Many people on the streets, especially if it's their first time, are unsure of what help is available.
Try to avoid items with any financial value as some of those fighting with drink or drug related issues may find the temptation to sell them on too great to resist.

I would strongly advise contacting a homeless charity for advice as it is very difficult to put yourself in the dark places most of the homeless are in.

Recondite49

Timfy wrote: »

Stamps, paper and a pen. If just one person decides to use them to reach out to someone then it has to be a good thing. Also a small laminated card with as many helpline details as you can find. Many people on the streets, especially if it's their first time, are unsure of what help is available.
Try to avoid items with any financial value as some of those fighting with drink or drug related issues may find the temptation to sell them on too great to resist.

I would strongly advise contacting a homeless charity for advice as it is very difficult to put yourself in the dark places most of the homeless are in.

Hi TImfy,

Many thanks to you for sharing your thoughts. I've e-mailed the local homeless charity and am waiting to hear back from them.

With respect to the homeless I know illiteracy is fairly common but I agree with you it's a good idea to include this all the same. I had thought of including a pen but you're right in saying it's no good without stamps, envelopes and paper. Do you think maybe if we stamped say two envelopes and put them in each bag along with some paper and a pen that would be enough? Perhaps International stamps would be best?

I've tried to make sure the goods are nothing that could be sold or bartered - individually none of them are worth more than two Euro.

You're right to be concerned about drink or drugs - this is why I don't just want to stick a few coins in their paper cup, it's short sighted and could be dangerous if they use the cash to buy anything harmful.

gctest50

Recondite49 wrote: »

With respect to the homeless I know illiteracy is fairly common but I agree with you it's a good idea to include this all the same. I had thought of including a pen but you're right in saying it's no good without stamps, envelopes and paper. Do you think maybe if we stamped say two envelopes and put them in each bag along with some paper and a pen that would be enough? Perhaps International stamps would be best?

You can get blank pre-paid envelopes from a post office hth

gctest50

You might get a few ideas out of this :

Easy access to water is one prob

http://culture.squidoo.com/what_to_buy_if_you_are_homeless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6fkyf9UGAE

Recondite49

gctest50 wrote: »

You can get blank pre-paid envelopes from a post office hth

Really? I know they do that in UK but never saw them in Post Offices, I'll take a look, thanks.

gctest50

They'll post them to your door

http://www.anpost.ie/anpost/downloads/anpost/StampsDirectOrder.pdf


about €1 each

Recondite49

I have just received a PM and as such should clarify that although I appreciate blankets, socks and mittens will be welcome in the winter months, right now it's very warm and they won't be necessary.

I'm also trying to avoid placing perishable items in the bags to make sure they have a long shelf life. My friends and I will place food in them the day we use them, probably something like fruit/sandwiches. All thoughts are welcome as ever, many thanks to everyone for contributing so far.

Recondite49

gctest50 wrote: »

You might get a few ideas out of this :

Easy access to water is one prob

http://culture.squidoo.com/what_to_buy_if_you_are_homeless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6fkyf9UGAE

I really can't thank you enough for this gctest.

In brief, some of the suggestions include:

Mylar space blanket
Watch/Travel Alarm
Bar soap (more compact and lighter than shower gel)
Hairbrush
Plastic drop cloth
Prepay phone
Clothing

smellmepower

Used to work with a homeless organisation few years ago and we'd give out bags with this type of stuff.

Water bottle
Socks
Tin of Tuna and crackers (with plastic cutlery)
Granola/cereal bar
Apple/Orange/Pear
Digestive biscuits with sachet of jam and butter
Wet hand wipes
Pack of tissues
Toothbrush and toothpaste,mouthwash (alcohol free)
Plasters
Chapstick/vaseline
Comb or small brush
Mints, cough drops or chewing gum.

gctest50

Corsodyl or similar ( need to ask in the Dentisty part of boards ) helps gum disease :

http://www.pharmacystore.ie/Corsodyl-1--Dental-Gel-50g?sort=p.price&order=DESC&manufacturer_id=152

Recondite49

smellmepower wrote: »

Used to work with a homeless organisation few years ago and we'd give out bags with this type of stuff.

Water bottle
Socks
Tin of Tuna and crackers (with plastic cutlery)
Granola/cereal bar
Apple/Orange/Pear
Digestive biscuits with sachet of jam and butter
Wet hand wipes
Pack of tissues
Toothbrush and toothpaste,mouthwash (alcohol free)
Plasters
Chapstick/vaseline
Comb or small brush
Mints, cough drops or chewing gum.

This is very helpful thank you, exactly the kind of stuff they'll need. Cereal bars in particular would keep for a long time I imagine?

I'm not sure about the vaseline though - is it really useful to the homeless? I know it can be used to treat rashes, is it for that reason? I imagine sleeping in the same clothes and showering infrequently must make skin care a common problem.

zoe 3619

Think this is a great idea,and well done for thinking of it.maybe skip the shower gel?no use without a shower.also,I'd never give a stranger( or a friend)deodorant.some might appreciate it,but could be misconstrued.maybe have a walk round the charity shops and pick up cheap,clean t- shirts.socks are good and pretty much unisex.packets of biscuits maybe.gloves and lightweight(charity shop)blankets-look out for cheap ones now,and you'll have them ready for winter.laminated card with helpline numbers is a great idea.wonder if any of the fast food places do vouchers?not too nutritious,I know,but hot food at least.or get chatting to a few,sure they'll be able to tell you what they need the most,and you can refine your package.good luck with this-every respect for what you're doing:-)

Recondite49

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Think this is a great idea,and well done for thinking of it.maybe skip the shower gel?no use without a shower.also,I'd never give a stranger( or a friend)deodorant.some might appreciate it,but could be misconstrued.maybe have a walk round the charity shops and pick up cheap,clean t- shirts.socks are good and pretty much unisex.packets of biscuits maybe.gloves and lightweight(charity shop)blankets-look out for cheap ones now,and you'll have them ready for winter.laminated card with helpline numbers is a great idea.wonder if any of the fast food places do vouchers?not too nutritious,I know,but hot food at least.or get chatting to a few,sure they'll be able to tell you what they need the most,and you can refine your package.good luck with this-every respect for what you're doing:-)

Hi Zoe,

Many thanks for sharing your thoughts.

It's interesting you mention fast food vouchers as this idea first occurred to me when I saw a young homeless girl outside my local shopping centre. I bought her a burger for McDonalds - she seemed grateful but I couldn't help but feeling like this wasn't enough, plus the food they do is terribly bad for you.

I understand your feelings about personal hygiene items but everyone I've spoken to so far has said these are useful items to the homeless. Needless to say high levels of personal grooming are going to be necessary for getting a job.

I'm looking into socks and gloves as we speak. Ideally I'd like to do Unisex bags, plus space concerns mean that clothing is unlikely to be included but I thought maybe a Penneys voucher so they could buy themselves some underwear etc? What do you think?

The store I visited today was selling those space blankets, will definitely pick some up next time.

smellmepower

Recondite49 wrote: »

This is very helpful thank you, exactly the kind of stuff they'll need. Cereal bars in particular would keep for a long time I imagine?

I'm not sure about the vaseline though - is it really useful to the homeless? I know it can be used to treat rashes, is it for that reason? I imagine sleeping in the same clothes and showering infrequently must make skin care a common problem.

Yeah cereal bars keep for a good while I think.Used to throw in plain chocolate bars too if I remember correctly(something like dairy milk etc)the Vaseline was just for chapped,cracked lips really,could use any chapstick thing either like.

Used to put Pot Noodle in them too,but stopped because the lads had hassle getting hot water from shops etc,unfortunately.

gctest50

/ just random bits

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.ie/army-surplus/army-surplus/army-surplus2013-07-02-08-10-16_/army-mug-detail.html

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.ie/army-surplus/army-surplus/army-surplus2013-07-02-08-10-16_/knifeforkspoon-detail.html

Recondite49

gctest50 wrote: »

/ just random bits

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.ie/army-surplus/army-surplus/army-surplus2013-07-02-08-10-16_/army-mug-detail.html

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.ie/army-surplus/army-surplus/army-surplus2013-07-02-08-10-16_/knifeforkspoon-detail.html

Thanks chief, this is very helpful. I considered cutlery earlier today when I saw some in the Euro store but I think there are legal issues surrounding carrying knives around. God knows the poor b@stards lives are complicated enough without them running afoul of the law.

nibtrix

What about protein bars rather than (or as well as) cereal bars? I'd imagine that much of the food they get is carb heavy - sandwiches, fast food etc. so they could be fairly lacking in protein?

On the same idea, how about multivitamins? Tesco do very cheap own brand supplements - it's €1.13 for 90 Multivitamins with Iron, and until 21st July they're 3 for 2!

Also, this wouldn't be for all the care bags but quite a few homeless people have pet dogs with them, if you knew you were giving a pack to someone with a dog you could include dog food or treats. For some homeless people their pet can be the most important thing in the world and they'll often give up food so their pet can eat.

Recondite49

nibtrix wrote: »

What about protein bars rather than (or as well as) cereal bars? I'd imagine that much of the food they get is carb heavy - sandwiches, fast food etc. so they could be fairly lacking in protein?

On the same idea, how about multivitamins? Tesco do very cheap own brand supplements - it's €1.13 for 90 Multivitamins with Iron, and until 21st July they're 3 for 2!

Also, this wouldn't be for all the care bags but quite a few homeless people have pet dogs with them, if you knew you were giving a pack to someone with a dog you could include dog food or treats. For some homeless people their pet can be the most important thing in the world and they'll often give up food so their pet can eat.

Hi nibtrix,

Some excellent suggestions thank you. I saw vitamin tablets for sale in the store today and toyed with the idea. Was just worried about giving medication to them, you know how it can backfire sometimes.

gctest50

forgot about that

/ cancels plans for making spear-fishing gear

nibtrix

Recondite49 wrote: »

Hi nibtrix,

Some excellent suggestions thank you. I saw vitamin tablets for sale in the store today and toyed with the idea. Was just worried about giving medication to them, you know how it can backfire sometimes.

True, I didn't think of that! Between potential literacy problems or influence of alcohol or drugs someone might take the whole bottle. You're probably right to avoid that.

Another thought, you could put in low value Tesco or Dunnes vouchers, rather than Pennys or fast food. That way they could pick up whatever they need - food, toiletries or clothes.

Recondite49

nibtrix wrote: »

True, I didn't think of that! Between potential literacy problems or influence of alcohol or drugs someone might take the whole bottle. You're probably right to avoid that.

Another thought, you could put in low value Tesco or Dunnes vouchers, rather than Pennys or fast food. That way they could pick up whatever they need - food, toiletries or clothes.

Thanks nibtrix, I'm looking into it as we speak. When I lived in UK the Tesco Gift cards couldn't be used to buy tobacco or alcohol but am not sure if the same is true here in Ireland.

Recondite49

Just had an e-mail back from a local homeless charity.

I won't copy and paste but suffice it to say they told me to forget this idea and just go and volunteer for them, or make a donation. Apparently individual acts of charity aren't to be encouraged.

The message was a simple request for information. Just as well I asked all of you for advice or I'd have nothing.

Recondite49

gctest50 wrote: »

forgot about that

/ cancels plans for making spear-fishing gear

Post collapse we can be armed to the teeth but in the mean time we'd best not scare the straights. :-D

Recondite49

gctest50 wrote: »

forgot about that

/ cancels plans for making spear-fishing gear

Post collapse we can be armed to the teeth but in the mean time we'd best not scare the straights. :-D

zoe 3619

Recondite49 wrote: »

Just had an e-mail back from a local homeless charity.

I won't copy and paste but suffice it to say they told me to forget this idea and just go and volunteer for them, or make a donation. Apparently individual acts of charity aren't to be encouraged.

The message was a simple request for information. Just as well I asked all of you for advice or I'd have nothing.

You're going great.when you donate to a charity most of the money goes in 'administration'.if you can do something more direct and personal,you're cutting out the middle man and giveng so much more..

corner of hells

I work in low threshold homeless services , in all honesty donate clothes like hoodies , socks and underwear directly to your local charity.You can donate food to foodbanks if you want , food provision is ok in Ireland , but if I were you judging by the way you are motivated , volunteer.

Recondite49

corner of hells wrote: »

I work in low threshold homeless services , in all honesty donate clothes like hoodies , socks and underwear directly to your local charity.You can donate food to foodbanks if you want , food provision is ok in Ireland , but if I were you judging by the way you are motivated , volunteer.

Hi corner, thanks for your messages. I'm in the process of donating most of clothing to charity shops as my girlfriend has taken it upon herself to revamp my wardrobe!

We do have a soup kitchen here in Cork -Penny Dinners, which provides hot meals to the poor and they're always grateful to accept donations of food and kitchen accessories.

However I know if I were homeless I'd rather go hungry than go cap in hand to a charity, plus I'd want to keep clean so am trying to concentrate on articles which give people a little dignity.

Of course this isn't to criticise the great work being done by charities all over Ireland, it's just I've always preferred to do things myself when I can. As a Survivalist, I'm sure you sympathise. :-)

Recondite49

zoe 3619 wrote: »

You're going great.when you donate to a charity most of the money goes in 'administration'.if you can do something more direct and personal,you're cutting out the middle man and giveng so much more..

Thank you Zoe, you're very kind. My real reason I want to do it this way aside from being a lone wolf is because I want to help the most vulnerable people - the elderly and women.

I realise this is playing to the right wing mindset of drawing a distinction between a deserving and undeserving poor which is unfair, but we must admit these people are the most vulnerable.

Fingers crossed it'll go over well. Will keep you posted.

Recondite49

Ok folks so I've just been on eBay and ordered a job lot of nylon drawstring bags which are sturdy and large enough to hold everything without looking so valuable they'll be stolen.

The current working list of items is as follows:

Space blanket
Bar of soap
Toothbrush and toothpaste
€5 Phone Card
Information leaflet with useful numbers
Pack of mints
Small bottle mineral water
Small pack of wipes
Two stamped envelopes
Four sheets writing paper
Pen

Each bag works out at well under €20 and as time goes on I hope my friends and I can start buying in bulk to bring costs down further.

Many thanks to all for your contributions so far. Your responses have been very considered and it's clear you've all spoken from experience.

Joe Doe

Sounds like a great, noble project, would recommend volunteering initially just to get some more ideas and basic tips, aka 'R&D'. Then longer-term get the team going DIY, as guessing your leader wouldn't require a 6-figure CEO's salary. Will join, once the aul lotto numbers come up, (any day now....) Having travelled, worked and backpacked across the 4 corners of the earth, from the near artic, to deserted tropical islands, to metropolises, could suggest this:

PROPOSAL: Total initial full pack outlay expenditure: €40/£33 ea
//////////////

SOURCE: 'ALL' these items are usually available in the various €1/£1/$1 stores:
**************************

Essential reoccurring, weekly '$5' supply packs (food & water)
=============
x6 cereal bars €/£1
x6 bottles water €/£1
x1 (or more) 'breakfasts-in-a-tin' €/£1.ea
1.5kg oats * €/£2

then, Every 3 mths or so:
=============

utensils & nutrition

---

* 2l plastic airtight lunchbox for storage €/£1
cheap light fold-up nylon backpack (not drawstring type) €/£1+
x60 multi-vits+minerals+iron €/£1
x30 Vitamin C+Zinc €/£1
'plastic bodied' tin opener €1/£1
enamel Metal camping mug €/£1
enamel deep edge plate (can be heated) €/£1

shelter & clothing

---

waterproof tarpin €/£1
waterproof rain anorak €/£1
space blanket €/£1
sun/rain hat €/£1
or sunglasses+case €/£2

hygiene

---

mini First Aid Kit €/£1
wetwipes €/£1
mini deodorant €/£1
dry shampoo €/£1
travel/foldable Toothbrush €/£1
Toothpaste €/£1
mini travel sized bottled liquid soaps (not soapbar) €/£1 per pack
- soapbar is fine if you have a soap dish...

Optional:

---

Watch/Travel Alarm €/£1
'keyring' Pen & A6 Paper. €/£1
small led 'solar' keyring torch €/£1
10m paracord for securing items/anorak/keyring €/£1

SOURCE: specialist outdoors/travelshop/amazon
********************
********************
Plastic 'Sporks' (fork/spoon/knife combo) €/£3

SOURCE: Primark
*********************
*********************
x6 socks {FullMetalJacket had a great scene where the General over emphasised keeping the aul feet dry in 'nam, as the single most important thing} €/£2

SOURCE: DIY/DTP
*********************
*********************
A4 folded laminated 'info sheet'.. DIY @ est cost <€/£0.50ea
A4 folded laminated local maps.. DIY @ est cost <€/£0.50ea

SOURCE: Usually free, by request of publishers
*********************
A 'Robbins 'Awaken the giant within', it's pretty basic CBT - that may help in progression to the higher levels of Maslow's 'hierarchy of needs'.

note: vouchers/tickets/stamps/call-cards etc could be traded/bartered for cash (where there is motivation to do so).

zoe 3619

Ooka

corner of hells wrote: »

I work in low threshold homeless services , in all honesty donate clothes like hoodies , socks and underwear directly to your local charity.You can donate food to foodbanks if you want , food provision is ok in Ireland , but if I were you judging by the way you are motivated , volunteer.

Going back a long way now.was homeless for a while.no charity ever offered me anything...cynical as I am,donating to charity massages the conscience ,but doesn't always reach the people who need it. If you want to help,think this guy has the right idea.

Recondite49

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Ooka

Going back a long way now.was homeless for a while.no charity ever offered me anything...cynical as I am,donating to charity massages the conscience ,but doesn't always reach the people who need it. If you want to help,think this guy has the right idea.

I'm sorry to hear you were homeless Zoe but am glad you're in a better place now. I really appreciate you taking the time to look over the list because as someone who has been there, you'll know the difference between what's good for homelessness and what's good for a camping trip.

I don't want to wander too far off topic but as much as I admire charitable organisations I've always thought they're run on the basis of liberal guilt. Donating your cast off goods and clothes is all well and fine but it's not exactly the most altruistic thing anyone ever did.

There are also people who naively give cash to the homeless which of course prevents them from coming up with a long term solution to the problem. It's my hope we can provide them with something that gives them a little dignity and hopefully the ability to find work.

Recondite49

Joe Doe wrote: »

Sounds like a great, noble project, would recommend volunteering initially just to get some more ideas and basic tips, aka 'R&D'. Then longer-term get the team going DIY, as guessing your leader wouldn't require a 6-figure CEO's salary. Will join, once the aul lotto numbers come up, (any day now....) Having travelled, worked and backpacked across the 4 corners of the earth, from the near artic, to deserted tropical islands, to metropolises, could suggest this:

PROPOSAL: Total initial full pack outlay expenditure: €40/£33 ea
//////////////

SOURCE: 'ALL' these items are usually available in the various €1/£1/$1 stores:
**************************

Essential reoccurring, weekly '$5' supply packs (food & water)
=============
x6 cereal bars €/£1
x6 bottles water €/£1
x1 (or more) 'breakfasts-in-a-tin' €/£1.ea
1.5kg oats * €/£2

then, Every 3 mths or so:
=============

utensils & nutrition

---

* 2l plastic airtight lunchbox for storage €/£1
cheap light fold-up nylon backpack (not drawstring type) €/£1+
x60 multi-vits+minerals+iron €/£1
x30 Vitamin C+Zinc €/£1
'plastic bodied' tin opener €1/£1
enamel Metal camping mug €/£1
enamel deep edge plate (can be heated) €/£1

shelter & clothing

---

waterproof tarpin €/£1
waterproof rain anorak €/£1
space blanket €/£1
sun/rain hat €/£1
or sunglasses+case €/£2

hygiene

---

mini First Aid Kit €/£1
wetwipes €/£1
mini deodorant €/£1
dry shampoo €/£1
travel/foldable Toothbrush €/£1
Toothpaste €/£1
mini travel sized bottled liquid soaps (not soapbar) €/£1 per pack
- soapbar is fine if you have a soap dish...

Optional:

---

Watch/Travel Alarm €/£1
'keyring' Pen & A6 Paper. €/£1
small led 'solar' keyring torch €/£1
10m paracord for securing items/anorak/keyring €/£1

SOURCE: specialist outdoors/travelshop/amazon
********************
********************
Plastic 'Sporks' (fork/spoon/knife combo) €/£3

SOURCE: Primark
*********************
*********************
x6 socks {FullMetalJacket had a great scene where the General over emphasised keeping the aul feet dry in 'nam, as the single most important thing} €/£2

SOURCE: DIY/DTP
*********************
*********************
A4 folded laminated 'info sheet'.. DIY @ est cost <€/£0.50ea
A4 folded laminated local maps.. DIY @ est cost <€/£0.50ea

SOURCE: Usually free, by request of publishers
*********************
A 'Robbins 'Awaken the giant within', it's pretty basic CBT - that may help in progression to the higher levels of Maslow's 'hierarchy of needs'.

note: vouchers/tickets/stamps/call-cards etc could be traded/bartered for cash (where there is motivation to do so).

Thank you Joe, you've obviously put a lot of thought into this and I'm very envious you're so well traveled!

I agree with you about the bar soap. Do you think that perhaps a little bottle of hand sanitiser might go down better than liquid soap? That way they wouldn't need running water to get the hands clean and if they do, so much the better.

As an alternative to the mug/bottled water do you think it might be an idea to get some of those screw top aluminium water bottles? I've seen them before in the Euro stores and of course we could fill them with water on the day we'll use them.

Re: socks I did see some the other day but only in sizes 4-7 - I think we will have to have separate bags for men and women after all. Incidentally wasn't that line from Lt. Dan in Forrest Gump?

BreadnBuddha

Handing people a bag with generic stuff in it is all well and good, but it's no better as part of a long term approach than anything else.

The most valuable thing you can give to a homeless person is your time. Don't cod yourself into thinking you can just hand out bags and it's help. It won't. You have to get to know the people before you can decide what way to help.

Some would give you their own coat just to have someone speak give them a cup of tea and speak with them as a human, not as a homeless person. Some won't want to talk, but they'll tell you right out what one thing would make the biggest difference to them, be it a pair of brandless runners and some thick socks, a raincoat or a few pairs of underpants.

If you want to make a difference, you'll have to pick just a few people to help, in some small way. Put your time and effort into them and try to spread your idea around, to inspire others to do the same.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I say well done to you and your mates, but be realistic. Find someone you can each just get to know in some small way, and make an actual difference to them. The SVP or Focus are good places to contact first and foremost to find out how to actually get to know something about the homeless and what will REALLY make a difference. It needs to be individuals you try to help, not a collective.

Zoe there for example, I bet when she was homeless could put her finger on one or two things that she REALLY would have been grateful for, much more than the gesture of a bag of diluted items she might have been okay without.

Just my thoughts, but good luck to you either way lads.

Recondite49

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Handing people a bag with generic stuff in it is all well and good, but it's no better as part of a long term approach than anything else.

The most valuable thing you can give to a homeless person is your time. Don't cod yourself into thinking you can just hand out bags and it's help. It won't. You have to get to know the people before you can decide what way to help.

Some would give you their own coat just to have someone speak give them a cup of tea and speak with them as a human, not as a homeless person. Some won't want to talk, but they'll tell you right out what one thing would make the biggest difference to them, be it a pair of brandless runners and some thick socks, a raincoat or a few pairs of underpants.

If you want to make a difference, you'll have to pick just a few people to help, in some small way. Put your time and effort into them and try to spread your idea around, to inspire others to do the same.

I'm not trying to discourage you. I say well done to you and your mates, but be realistic. Find someone you can each just get to know in some small way, and make an actual difference to them. The SVP or Focus are good places to contact first and foremost to find out how to actually get to know something about the homeless and what will REALLY make a difference. It needs to be individuals you try to help, not a collective.

Zoe there for example, I bet when she was homeless could put her finger on one or two things that she REALLY would have been grateful for, much more than the gesture of a bag of diluted items she might have been okay without.

Just my thoughts, but good luck to you either way lads.

Hi BreadNBuddha,

In the first instance, this idea is certainly not my own, it's been implemented in a number of cities around the world both by private individuals and charities with great success. No one is 'codding' anyone. Please feel free to check out the links above and research the topic yourself if you'd like more information.

This initiative has been put together by myself and a few colleagues precisely because we lack the sufficient time to volunteer for organisations due to the long hours and shift patterns of our job.

In terms of effectiveness, there isn't really a way to measure this. I do hope if the homeless give us some feedback about which items are helpful we'll take this on board but we also have to take expenses into account and we can't allow them anything that's potentially harmful or illegal. An excellent case in point is to do with wool blankets - I'd love to give these away but haven't found a cheap supplier yet, plus they wouldn't fit inside the bags we have in mind, hence space blanket.

As you saw yourself, we've the benefit of speaking with someone who has herself been homeless and of course the expertise of Survivalists who by definition are able to make do with very little.

Properly assembled and distributed, these bags will make a real difference to people's lives and while I applaud anyone who wants to sit and have a cup of tea with the homeless or volunteer at a shelter, we're only in a position to donate resources, not time.

I'd also direct your attention to my original post where I said I didn't want to start a discussion on the merits of helping the homeless. If you have ideas about donating time to homeless people, please start this in a separate thread - this was a request for inventory not an opportunity to share your opinion on whether you think this is a good idea in the first place.

BreadnBuddha

Well, without wanting to derail your thread, I think it's only fair I point out that you're the one suggesting in effect that charities are a salve for a guilty conscience. I'm not saying that's what you're at, but the way you're treating any constructive criticism of your approach would leave you open to such claims.

If you really want to make a difference, you have to make it personal. You can't do that unless you get to know the real people and their individual needs. If all you want to do is put 'survivalist' packing lists into bags, fine. Go ahead. Feel good about it. Why not.

If all you can spare is internet/euro shop buying time, packing stuff, delivering it etc., of course you won't possibly be able to spare 20 minutes to chat with a homeless person, to find out that they'd really like to shave every day, have a haircut every 6 weeks that doesn't make them look like a prisoner, or have a tin of brown boot polish and a shoebrush. Better to give them a space blanket, a water bottle and a few muesli bars, right?

I met a homeless guy sleeping at the back of an office carpark beside the canal in Rathmines 18 months ago. He was tidying up rubbish, and told me politely that the owners (a completely different charity as it happens) didn't mind him keeping out of the way there during the day as he tidied up, was friendly and polite and just read books. As I was leaving the carpark to go to my meeting he asked me if by any chance I might bring him a cup of tea on my way back to my car if I was at all able to.

This guy had his problems. It was clear to see. I brought him his tea along with a couple of packs of cheese and ham and a sliced pan. I asked him if there was just one thing that he was able to ask someone for that day, what would it be. He told me a waterproof coat that would keep him warm. I told him that if he was there on Saturday morning at 9am he'd get what he wanted. He was there. I gave him a coat my wife picked up for 6 quid in Oxfam, specifically for him. I've never seen a man so happy.

He told me some of his story, which I won't repeat here. Bits were what you might expect, others not so much so. His story was his story. It was obvious that he was ashamed to be homeless, truly ashamed of himself. I asked him would he be there the next Saturday and would he still have his 'new' coat. He said he would, and he was.

For a few weeks, I brought this guy specific things, things that I only knew he truly valued, because I'd asked. A pair of shoes. Proper shoes, not loafers or runners. Corduroy pants, specifically dark brown so they'd look cleaner for longer he said. Dark boot socks, long, woolen. Polish for his shoes. Shirts.

The weeks went on, and while nothing I did would ever do anything about the reasons he ended up where he was, he now had a good coat, clean (at least looking) pants. Polished shoes. I gave him a pack of disposable razors and some shaving gel, mouthwash and toothbrushes.

The man had a chance to take some sort of pride if you'll call it that in how he looked each day. With a black beanie cap and scarf and a pair of gloves, you'd not have any reason to know he was homeless, at least not from how he looked. That's what he wanted, and why wouldn't he?

I think I spent nearly 100 a month on him for bits and pieces for nearly 3 months, and then he was gone. No idea what happened to him, if he's okay or not, but I know he was genuinely grateful that I wasn't giving him just a handout, but something that made a PERSONAL difference.

Anyway, on with you and do what you think is best. I mean no disrespect, but I think you're missing a chance to do something special for someone. Even if you don't have the time, the local homeless charity would be able to give you a list of items to pack for a particular profile of 'client' they work with. Sure look, all they might want is a toy and a Hallmark card to post to their kid, or a good book to read, a pair of sunglasses, a nail clippers and a comb, a good leather belt for their trousers, some dandruff shampoo, a waterproof case for their phone or whatever. You'll never get any of that stuff if you don't ask, and that's the point.

Recondite49

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Well, without wanting to derail your thread, I think it's only fair I point out that you're the one suggesting in effect that charities are a salve for a guilty conscience. I'm not saying that's what you're at, but the way you're treating any constructive criticism of your approach would leave you open to such claims.

If you really want to make a difference, you have to make it personal. You can't do that unless you get to know the real people and their individual needs. If all you want to do is put 'survivalist' packing lists into bags, fine. Go ahead. Feel good about it. Why not.

If all you can spare is internet/euro shop buying time, packing stuff, delivering it etc., of course you won't possibly be able to spare 20 minutes to chat with a homeless person, to find out that they'd really like to shave every day, have a haircut every 6 weeks that doesn't make them look like a prisoner, or have a tin of brown boot polish and a shoebrush. Better to give them a space blanket, a water bottle and a few muesli bars, right?

I met a homeless guy sleeping at the back of an office carpark beside the canal in Rathmines 18 months ago. He was tidying up rubbish, and told me politely that the owners (a completely different charity as it happens) didn't mind him keeping out of the way there during the day as he tidied up, was friendly and polite and just read books. As I was leaving the carpark to go to my meeting he asked me if by any chance I might bring him a cup of tea on my way back to my car if I was at all able to.

This guy had his problems. It was clear to see. I brought him his tea along with a couple of packs of cheese and ham and a sliced pan. I asked him if there was just one thing that he was able to ask someone for that day, what would it be. He told me a waterproof coat that would keep him warm. I told him that if he was there on Saturday morning at 9am he'd get what he wanted. He was there. I gave him a coat my wife picked up for 6 quid in Oxfam, specifically for him. I've never seen a man so happy.

He told me some of his story, which I won't repeat here. Bits were what you might expect, others not so much so. His story was his story. It was obvious that he was ashamed to be homeless, truly ashamed of himself. I asked him would he be there the next Saturday and would he still have his 'new' coat. He said he would, and he was.

For a few weeks, I brought this guy specific things, things that I only knew he truly valued, because I'd asked. A pair of shoes. Proper shoes, not loafers or runners. Corduroy pants, specifically dark brown so they'd look cleaner for longer he said. Dark boot socks, long, woolen. Polish for his shoes. Shirts.

The weeks went on, and while nothing I did would ever do anything about the reasons he ended up where he was, he now had a good coat, clean (at least looking) pants. Polished shoes. I gave him a pack of disposable razors and some shaving gel, mouthwash and toothbrushes.

The man had a chance to take some sort of pride if you'll call it that in how he looked each day. With a black beanie cap and scarf and a pair of gloves, you'd not have any reason to know he was homeless, at least not from how he looked. That's what he wanted, and why wouldn't he?

I think I spent nearly 100 a month on him for bits and pieces for nearly 3 months, and then he was gone. No idea what happened to him, if he's okay or not, but I know he was genuinely grateful that I wasn't giving him just a handout, but something that made a PERSONAL difference.

Anyway, on with you and do what you think is best. I mean no disrespect, but I think you're missing a chance to do something special for someone. Even if you don't have the time, the local homeless charity would be able to give you a list of items to pack for a particular profile of 'client' they work with. Sure look, all they might want is a toy and a Hallmark card to post to their kid, or a good book to read, a pair of sunglasses, a nail clippers and a comb, a good leather belt for their trousers, some dandruff shampoo, a waterproof case for their phone or whatever. You'll never get any of that stuff if you don't ask, and that's the point.

I'm sorry BreadNBuddha, I did say specifically at the start of this thread I don't have any interest in hearing people's opinions on whether this was a good/bad idea or not, I'm not going to read your reply. That said you've been added to my' ignore' list so feel free to knock yourself out.

BreadnBuddha

Ignorance is bliss.

Recondite49

Incidentally many thanks to those of you who did take the time and trouble to read my request and provide helpful information. The bags have been ordered and I hope to post a few photos next week if anyone is interested.

corner of hells

Recondite49 wrote: »

Incidentally many thanks to those of you who did take the time and trouble to read my request and provide helpful information. The bags have been ordered and I hope to post a few photos next week if anyone is interested.

Make sure you have your own first aid kit , with a rebreather mask , use any spare time you have to refresh your First Aid , CPR training.
Do some training around Blood Bourne viruses , needle stick injury and get your HEP shot.
Ask somebody to talk to you about opiate overdose and benzo fits.

Good luck.

Recondite49

corner of hells wrote: »

Make sure you have your own first aid kit , with a rebreather mask , use any spare time you have to refresh your First Aid , CPR training.
Do some training around Blood Bourne viruses , needle stick injury and get your HEP shot.
Ask somebody to talk to you about opiate overdose and benzo fits.

Good luck.

Thanks corner, of course any good prepper should be taking First Aid courses anyway. I've been very negligent in this area so will do as you suggest.

corner of hells

Recondite49 wrote: »

Thanks corner, of course any good prepper should be taking First Aid courses anyway. I've been very negligent in this area so will do as you suggest.

Get a Hoffman knife too.

Recondite49

Well folks I dropped off my first bag today.

It was to a homeless girl to whom I'd previously given a burger. She sits outside a supermarket not far from where I live.

The heartbreaking part was that as soon as she saw I was walking towards her and said 'hey', she made as if to move away. She thought I was trying to move her on.

I'm a tall man and have a dodgy beard, so perhaps I might have frightened her a bit looming over her. However, it was very sobering to think that the automatic assumption of a homeless person is that if a stranger approaches them it is to get rid of them.

Thank you once again to all of you for your comments and suggestions for the bag, I took on board everything you had to say in putting these together and hope there'll be many more to come. If you have any further suggestions for inventory, please feel free to post them here.

corner of hells

Recondite49 wrote: »

Well folks I dropped off my first bag today.

It was to a homeless girl to whom I'd previously given a burger. She sits outside a supermarket not far from where I live.

The heartbreaking part was that as soon as she saw I was walking towards her and said 'hey', she made as if to move away. She thought I was trying to move her on.

I'm a tall man and have a dodgy beard, so perhaps I might have frightened her a bit looming over her. However, it was very sobering to think that the automatic assumption of a homeless person is that if a stranger approaches them it is to get rid of them.

Thank you once again to all of you for your comments and suggestions for the bag, I took on board everything you had to say in putting these together and hope there'll be many more to come. If you have any further suggestions for inventory, please feel free to post them here.

Well done .I think I told you I work in homeless services , if you have any questions ask away.

Recondite49

corner of hells wrote: »

Well done .I think I told you I work in homeless services , if you have any questions ask away.

Hi Corner,

Thank you so much for letting me know, I'd like to send you a message later on today if you don't mind.

corner of hells

Recondite49 wrote: »

Hi Corner,

Thank you so much for letting me know, I'd like to send you a message later on today if you don't mind.

Yes , no problem.