What is the future of Appliance Repair Technicians ?

Big Davey

It has been an ambition of mine to be a repair man for some time I have done a course am about to start another short one and hope to launch my business late this year.
I have been shocked at some of the newer machines build quality and it makes me wonder where the industry is going in the future ? For example when I can I pick up unwanted machines to practice on or fault find etc and two of my more recent machines were indesit washing machines just needing bearings ! (As it's a sealed drum the bearings are not replaceable) so a perfectly good machine that just needs a bearing gets thrown away and the home owner just buys a new one.
Is this the future of the industry ? We won't be getting a repair man unless it's a neff or Bosch or Miele etc ?
Most of the people I have had contact with have bought very cheap machines in the €170-€190 price bracket with names I have never heard of and hope to get 3+ years and then throw it away. This is not good for the envoirment and is a false sense of economy in my opinion.
I would like the opinions of repair people and the general public as to where the industry is going? Does a €60 call out charge put you off getting a machine looked at ? Is a €60 call out charge necessary to stay in business ? Am I getting into a dying industry ?
Thanks to all who reply.

wilddarts

When companies develop new products they put a lot of time into an area of marketing called The Product Life Cycle. They basically plan how long a product should last which is most profitable for them. They find a happy medium between making the product last long enough as to not put off return buyers and a time frame of when the product is "designed to fail" and another one is bought. This coupled with parts that are not replaceable, such as the sealed unit that houses the bearings in your case means that there is an increasing tend to replace rather than repair. It happens in all areas. Ive read there is even an idea going around in the motor industry (i work in the motor industry) where in future engines will be 'sealed units', ie unrepairable.

Its called Planned Obsolescence, or Designed to Fail and as long as it's the most profitable way to make a product, it will be seen more and more. I don't want to put you on a downer or anything and best of luck with your business, its just what I see on a daily basis as a parts manager.

theteal

€60+ and how long will the repair last (considering it was a low end machine when bought) compared to stumping up another €100 to buy a brand new cheap machine and get another 3 years, that's going to be your main competitor OP.

It's not just your industry. You see the ads on telly about throwing out your barely old computer because it's getting "slow" for a shiny new cheap laptop - us IT guys are like, "that's a piss-take, right?"

yellowlabrador

A friend of mine used to repair domestic appliances. He gave it up 10 years ago for this reason. An added problem is that the same model might have a variety of parts sourced from all over the world, ie you can't be sure to replace like with like. He advised me to buy an old washing machine as they are still repairable.
When he was working, people brought in irons, toasters, kettles and vacuum cleaners to be fixed.He also worked on cookers, fridges and tumble dryers.
He stopped when the repairs became dearer than replacing.
I'd work for a manufacturer.

Diane Selwyn

I find this depressing alright - its just so wasteful! Its not only that a relatively new but already faulty appliance is going to landfill but the thought of the resources like water and energy that went into producing it is heartbreaking. My parents gave their 1960s fridge/freezer to my aunt when our family outgrew it and guess what - its still going strong although they have been through 4 or 5 replacements with increasingly shorter lifespans since then. I would be happy to have things repaired if they were able to be but with things like CD players (almost obsolete now as anyway!) I don't know if it's even worth getting them looked at - when something is more digital than electronic can it be repaired easily? The fact that retailers have to take back old electronic products is great in stopping them being incorrectly disposed of but maybe makes it all too easy to just trade up every now and then.

coylemj

The rise from nowhere of brands like Beko and the resurrection from the dead of old brands like Blomberg and Nordmende shows that it's all about marketing and the sales tactics used in the showroom and much less than used to be the case which is that you bought the same brand of washing machine that your mother used for over 10 years.

A family member of mine for example was looking at a Beko oven in one of the well known Irish electrical retail chains, she expressed doubt about the brand whereupon she was told that it was manufactured in Germany. Now if it was a toaster or an iron she could have lifted the appliance and read the label but you can't do that with an oven that's on display in a pretend kitchen so she took him at his word which I know from research to be a complete lie.

A few years ago I had a problem with a pretty good Mitsubishi TV, it was almost certainly just that it needed a new power unit, a repair that would have been no problem if it was a PC but I couldn't find anyone in my area doing TV repairs so I brought it to the local recycling centre and tipped it into a skip.

If the cost of a new model is only 3x the cost of calling out a repair man and paying for parts, it simply means that in most cases the consumer will decide it's not an economic proposition, chuck it in the local recycling centre and buy new.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

If the cost of a new model is only 3x the cost of calling out a repair man and paying for parts, it simply means that in most cases the consumer will decide it's not an economic proposition, chuck it in the local recycling centre and buy new.

While it is more important to create jobs making & selling goods (also makes economic stats look good) as cheap as possible than to build quality & preserve resources, this situation will continue.

The waste of resources will most likely continue until it's too late, then we'll have long life & serviceable appliances.

dingding

I remember in the 80's all sorts of things were repairable, kettles, toasters and of course larger appliances like cookers, twin tubs and washing machines.

rasper

Chinese make them cheaper than the Europeans can repair them . perhaps if a minimum warranty was mandatory say 5 years . then it would help keep the junk off the market.
not gonna happen tho

rasper

rasper wrote: »

Chinese make them cheaper than the Europeans can repair them . perhaps if a minimum warranty was mandatory say 5 years . then it would help keep the junk off the market.
not gonna happen tho

The Chinese could easily make machines with 5 year warranties at very little extra cost, but they won't as they know that in the longer tern they'll sell far fewer of them!

I would like to see a "servicibility" label (like the energy labels) on the appliances that states things like design life and repair status (how many of the machine's parts can be repaired/replaced). Then it would give the consumer a chance to see if better to "buy cheap & pay twice" or spend a bit more on something that will be cheaper in the long term even factoring in one or two service calls.

yellowlabrador

With all the fuss they are making about greenhouse gasses, everything should be repairable.

Rucking_Fetard

Lower VAT on recycled products and extend consumer warranties

Extended warranties and eco-design

The Government should work with the EU to establish eco-design standards across a range of products to make them easier to repair, upgrade, or recycle. Such standards should phase out products made from materials that cannot be recycled and encourage companies to design goods that have a clear end-of-life recovery route and are fabricated using easily separable and recyclable components. The Government should also work with industry sectors to set longer minimum warranty periods for consumer products to encourage businesses to adopt more resource-efficient business models.

Joan Walley MP:

"We all know the frustration when we have to throw something away even though it’s just past its warranty. In our disposable society it often makes more financial sense to buy a new one than get something repaired. Things are not made to last and many manufacturers don’t make it easy for us to fix things. Government should work with companies to incentivise and encourage design that makes it easier to repair products and finally remanufacture or recycle them. Ministers should also work with industry to extend consumer warranties so that companies are encouraged to build things that last."

Biggest issue here is and no offence to OP or others here, incompetent Repair Folk, I'm not long after buying a new fridge after 3 visits from a thick cu*t failed to fix the last one.

So I was down the €60.

And this is not an uncommon story. The expertise to fix an Appliance, that is repairable, is hard to come by.

coylemj

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

Biggest issue here is and no offence to OP or others here, incompetent Repair Folk, I'm not long after buying a new fridge after 3 visits from a thick cu*t failed to fix the last one.

So I was down the €60.

And this is not an uncommon story. The expertise to fix an Appliance, that is repairable, is hard to come by.

What do you expect for €60 - a Ph.D. engineer with a van full of parts for every appliance?

Pay peanuts ......

jack of all

This is an interesting thread and something that throws up a lot of questions about sustainability and our throwaway culture. We still have our first washing machine, a basic no-frills Zanussi model, which is still going strong after 15 years and is used 5-6 times per week. I can't rememember how much it cost but was something around the £350 mark (pre- Euro obviously). I've had to carry out some very minor repairs on it myself (blocked pump, heater element removed, hose replaced etc) over that period of ownership, all of which were fairly easy to do as the machine is straightforward and easy to access for repairs.

I see cheap washing machines today that retail for less than €300 or £235 punts (for comparison sake). Now that is cheap, and I too might be tempted to save a few bucks and plump for the budget machine, afterall what modern home can function without one for more than a few days? However being the sort of person I am I would not be inclined to buy the cheapest machine but aim for somewhere in the middle in terms of cost and quality. Cheap consumer goods mean that everyone can now afford modern conveniences that at one time were a luxury item or out of reach for many when consumer credit was not widely available. I do think there should be minimum standards in terms of quality, longevity and planned obselesence etc. In the same way that there is an energy rating could a machine also be rated in terms of it's expected lifespan, ease of repair/ repairability etc? I imagine that the maufacturers would strongly resist that, most of the budget brands would struggle if they were forced to improve the quality of their product with the attendant price increases that would entail. Looking at a sub €300 machine- when you take the VAT, profit, shipping, handling and delivery costs alone out of it etc it just shows how little the machine is being made for, crazy stuff. If it looks too good to be true etc.....

oxomoxo

How is it that after only 5 years our kitchen tap is falling apart and the one in my mum and dads home is there 40 years and they have never had to do anything with it. Quality has been sacrificed for cheap mass produced products with one year warrantties and after that you can take a jump.

oxomoxo

oxomoxo wrote: »

How is it that after only 5 years our kitchen tap is falling apart and the one in my mum and dads home is there 40 years and they have never had to do anything with it. Quality has been sacrificed for cheap mass produced products with one year warrantties and after that you can take a jump.

I sometimes wonder if there is a grand plan to make almost all products short-lived and disposable to keep the wheels of the economy turning faster than they would if stuff was made properly in the first place.

Manufacturers could easily make products that last several times longer than they do and at a relatively modest cost, relative to the short lives crap they make now.

Big Davey

Deleted User wrote: »

I sometimes wonder if there is a grand plan to make almost all products short-lived and disposable to keep the wheels of the economy turning faster than they would if stuff was made properly in the first place.

Manufacturers could easily make products that last several times longer than they do and at a relatively modest cost, relative to the short lives crap they make now.

Totally agree. The amount of machines that are dumped because the bearing has gone and can not be replaced is crazy. I believe it should be a law that all major parts are serviceable.
Next we will be changing car when the tyres are worn out lol there seems to be a grand scheme on the part of large manufacturers in all areas of life.

Big Davey

Big Davey wrote: »

Totally agree. The amount of machines that are dumped because the bearing has gone and can not be replaced is crazy. I believe it should be a law that all major parts are serviceable.
Next we will be changing car when the tyres are worn out lol there seems to be a grand scheme on the part of large manufacturers in all areas of life.

When car makers tried to shorten the vehicles "lives" down to about 5 years back in the 1970s, there was a consumer backlash and several manufacturers were severely damaged by the lack of sales after getting a reputation for building rust buckets. This was one of the main reasons that Japanese cars became more popular than the EU/US cars back then as they lasted longer.

oxomoxo

When you can buy a washing machine for €199 every 3 to 4 years why bother buying a more expensive model thats only going to last a year longer

oxomoxo

oxomoxo wrote: »

When you can buy a washing machine for €199 every 3 to 4 years why bother buying a more expensive model thats only going to last a year longer

If you spend about €500 and it lasts more than 12 years you're on to a winner.

lgk

Big Davey wrote: »

Totally agree. The amount of machines that are dumped because the bearing has gone and can not be replaced is crazy. I believe it should be a law that all major parts are serviceable.
Next we will be changing car when the tyres are worn out lol there seems to be a grand scheme on the part of large manufacturers in all areas of life.

Trouble is, that grand scheme is the result of consumer demand. There are a few manufacturers who stick to quality parts and aim for reliability, but these are being relegated to niche status in the market because people want things cheap.

No one's going to pass a law that requires products to be serviceable or have 5 year warranties because the average Joe doesn't want to pay what that costs. So you certainly can't blame the manufacturers, the options are out there, consumers just aren't buying it.

lgk

lgk wrote: »

Trouble is, that grand scheme is the result of consumer demand. There are a few manufacturers who stick to quality parts and aim for reliability, but these are being relegated to niche status in the market because people want things cheap.

No one's going to pass a law that requires products to be serviceable or have 5 year warranties because the average Joe doesn't want to pay what that costs. So you certainly can't blame the manufacturers, the options are out there, consumers just aren't buying it.

I would be in favour of a (mandatory) labelling system that clearly stated the design life of the product and its serviceability.

Then at least the consumer has been clearly informed that cheap isn't always best. in the long run

techteacher

great discussion... I have to say....good observations sprinkled with nice anecdotes but I think it all points to market forces. The market for cheap goods with the disposable lifecycle behaviour is here now. It will take a massive shock to the system to change it...think of a charge like the plastic bag levy...that changed consumer behaviour but would the question is are you green enough to accept this? ..will we realise we have to do it. I look forward to the discussion

Yes sir, Key point from an environmental perspective is the fact that we are now buying, building & manufacturing twice or more an item than if the product was not life limited and would only need making once. Great for the employment of staff in the factories & sales logistics etc, but bad way to waste resources (like energy) that will become scarce in the not too distant future.

I still believe that the extra costs involved in manufacturing a product to last and be serviceable is only 10-20% more than the costs of the throwaway unit.

It's not really a question of being green, it's more likely one of being "canny" when you buy and realizing that buying cheap means buying twice.

Basic fridges for example seem to last for ever!

techteacher

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes sir, Key point from an environmental perspective is the fact that we are now buying, building & manufacturing twice or more an item than if the product was not life limited and would only need making once. Great for the employment of staff in the factories & sales logistics etc, but bad way to waste resources (like energy) that will become scarce in the not too distant future.

I still believe that the extra costs involved in manufacturing a product to last and be serviceable is only 10-20% more than the costs of the throwaway unit.

It's not really a question of being green, it's more likely one of being "canny" when you buy and realizing that buying cheap means buying twice.

Basic fridges for example seem to last for ever!

yep have to agree there.. will the big fancy fridges last as long

Satts

Big Davey wrote: »

It has been an ambition of mine to be a repair man for some time I have done a course am about to start another short one and hope to launch my business late this year.
I have been shocked at some of the newer machines build quality and it makes me wonder where the industry is going in the future ? For example when I can I pick up unwanted machines to practice on or fault find etc and two of my more recent machines were indesit washing machines just needing bearings ! (As it's a sealed drum the bearings are not replaceable) so a perfectly good machine that just needs a bearing gets thrown away and the home owner just buys a new one.
Is this the future of the industry ? We won't be getting a repair man unless it's a neff or Bosch or Miele etc ?
Most of the people I have had contact with have bought very cheap machines in the €170-€190 price bracket with names I have never heard of and hope to get 3+ years and then throw it away. This is not good for the envoirment and is a false sense of economy in my opinion.
I would like the opinions of repair people and the general public as to where the industry is going? Does a €60 call out charge put you off getting a machine looked at ? Is a €60 call out charge necessary to stay in business ? Am I getting into a dying industry ?
Thanks to all who reply.

It's a pity to hear this about Indesit.
My parents bought their first washing machine in 1975, an Indesit.
They kept it for 27 years until a mouse got in to the control part and shorted it out, even then there was one or two programs still working. The motor was still fine when they dumped it.