Waiting at Beaumont Hospital Neurosurgery

goz83

I was involved in an RTA 2 months ago and suffered injuries to my back and neck. An MRI last month showed a pretty nasty bulging disc in my lower back. I have been unable to drive for 6 weeks today and have been in constant pain since.

I had an appointment to see the neurosurgeon on Friday and rescheduled all my clients to keep the appointment. I was asked to arrive early for admin and arrived 30 minutes prior to the appointment. After walking for only a very short time to the clinic, I was in agony as the medication does nothing for me. After waiting for 1 hour and 45 minutes, my wife asked the "stand in" receptionist how long the wait would be. The receptionist loudly said "ah, he'll be seen now." Another 45 minutes passed the doctor came out and called me in. She introduced herself by her first name only and spent no more than 5 minutes with me. She was a very cold person. As a therapist, I think it's important not to treat patients/clients like they are machines. She did not have my MRI scan and yet was able to make a willy nilly assessment by asking a few questions.
She noticed I was in pain and asked if my pain had improved.
It had got worse i told her.
She asked what I was taking for pain.
I told her and said it wasn't helping. She didn't recognise the pain killer (targin).
She asked if I had become incontinent.
I said I hadn't.
She said I would need surgery and asked am I ok with that.
I said I didn't like the idea, but knew it would be necessary.
She said I would be put on the waiting list and would be seen soon.
I asked what "soon" meant, in terms of weeks, months or years.
She said my case wasn't urgent, because i was basically in control of my bladder.
I said i have had to receive counselling as a result of the pain and had recently turned to alcohol for relief and the injury was having a significant impact on my life. Being young and having 4 young children wasn't even taken into consideration. My quality of life was of no concern to her.
She said that i would be referred to a pain clinic, but explained nothing and basically rushed me out. She was very dismissive of my GP but it was she who didn't know her medications.

I was by far the person in the most pain. other patients appeared to be just follow ups, with only one person having a bit of a limp. I suspect the secretary didn't hand my file over until my wife approached her, because three groups of appointments had been and gone while we waited.

I wasn't in a fit state to argue, but I feel really angry about this. I was stunned by how quickly i was in and out without being told anything.

I don't know if I should do anything about this. But I don't think it is acceptable to be waiting 2 hours to be seen after the official appointment time. 15-20 minutes would be tolerable, but 2 hours (2.5 hours from arrival) is seriously taking the mick.

Xeyn

The HSE is understaffed. You feel you werent given enough time during your visit - everyone who went to that clinic probably got similar times and you had to wait 2 hours - doesnt that tell you something? The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the HSE and hospital management. Write a complaint - an email preferably (so you have a copy), to the hospital explaining your concerns.

Unfortunately waiting times for surgeries especially a busy department like neurosurgery is long. Again understaffed and underfunded departments. There is nothing the doctors can do about that. Big budget cuts for the health service and increasing emigration of doctors due to poor working conditions is not helping.

Ive worked in a clinic where 3 - 5 doctors were expected to see 140 patients in a day. This was a cancer service. If we ignored all other clinical duties (ward rounds and emergency surgeries) and ignored our breaks (often happened) it would leave us with less than 10 minutes per patient working flat out. We ran into the same problems youve unfortunately experienced - people waiting a lot longer than anticipated. If a patient brought it up I would encourage them to do the same as Ive said for you - write a complaint. If enough people did it hopefully the management will have to sit up and take notice.

RobFowl

Mod note, just be sure no to ask for or offer medical advice. With those provisos I'll leave this thread open

Traumadoc

goz83 wrote: »

I was involved in an RTA 2 months ago and suffered injuries to my back and neck. An MRI last month showed a pretty nasty bulging disc in my lower back. I have been unable to drive for 6 weeks today and have been in constant pain since.

I had an appointment to see the neurosurgeon on Friday and rescheduled all my clients to keep the appointment. I was asked to arrive early for admin and arrived 30 minutes prior to the appointment. After walking for only a very short time to the clinic, I was in agony as the medication does nothing for me. After waiting for 1 hour and 45 minutes, my wife asked the "stand in" receptionist how long the wait would be. The receptionist loudly said "ah, he'll be seen now." Another 45 minutes passed the doctor came out and called me in. She introduced herself by her first name only and spent no more than 5 minutes with me. She was a very cold person. As a therapist, I think it's important not to treat patients/clients like they are machines. She did not have my MRI scan and yet was able to make a willy nilly assessment by asking a few questions.
She noticed I was in pain and asked if my pain had improved.
It had got worse i told her.
She asked what I was taking for pain.
I told her and said it wasn't helping. She didn't recognise the pain killer (targin).
She asked if I had become incontinent.
I said I hadn't.
She said I would need surgery and asked am I ok with that.
I said I didn't like the idea, but knew it would be necessary.
She said I would be put on the waiting list and would be seen soon.
I asked what "soon" meant, in terms of weeks, months or years.
She said my case wasn't urgent, because i was basically in control of my bladder.
I said i have had to receive counselling as a result of the pain and had recently turned to alcohol for relief and the injury was having a significant impact on my life. Being young and having 4 young children wasn't even taken into consideration. My quality of life was of no concern to her.
She said that i would be referred to a pain clinic, but explained nothing and basically rushed me out. She was very dismissive of my GP but it was she who didn't know her medications.

I was by far the person in the most pain. other patients appeared to be just follow ups, with only one person having a bit of a limp. I suspect the secretary didn't hand my file over until my wife approached her, because three groups of appointments had been and gone while we waited.

I wasn't in a fit state to argue, but I feel really angry about this. I was stunned by how quickly i was in and out without being told anything.

I don't know if I should do anything about this. But I don't think it is acceptable to be waiting 2 hours to be seen after the official appointment time. 15-20 minutes would be tolerable, but 2 hours (2.5 hours from arrival) is seriously taking the mick.

There are often 30 + ill people in the Emergency department awaiting bed, if you get a bed then they will have to wait another day in the ED.
Thats the reality of the sham that is our public healthcare system.

Doctors get upset when they have to see 40+ patients in an outpatients clinic many of whom have been waiting years, then have to put them on a waiting list years long.



BTW how do you know you are the person in most pain?

Nonoperational

At the end of the day, you got referred to the pain clinic and you're on the waiting list for the operation. Sounds poorly done, but done all the same.

lonestargirl

I know it sounds harsh to you that they couldn't give you a timeline but neurosurgery have a large proportion of emergent patients. There are people walking around today oblivious to the fact that in the next few weeks they are going to be diagnosed with a life threatening brain tumour. When they do present they often have to be operated on within days to preserve eyesight / motor function etc. As a result schedules in this service change frequently.

gctest50

goz83 wrote: »

I was involved in an RTA 2 months ago and suffered injuries to my back and neck. An MRI last month showed a pretty nasty bulging disc in my lower back. I have been unable to drive for 6 weeks today and have been in constant pain since.

I had an appointment to see the neurosurgeon on Friday and rescheduled all my clients to keep the appointment. I was asked to arrive early for admin and arrived 30 minutes prior to the appointment. After walking for only a very short time to the clinic, I was in agony as the medication does nothing for me. After waiting for 1 hour and 45 minutes, my wife asked the "stand in" receptionist how long the wait would be. The receptionist loudly said "ah, he'll be seen now." Another 45 minutes passed the doctor came out and called me in. She introduced herself by her first name only and spent no more than 5 minutes with me. She was a very cold person. As a therapist, I think it's important not to treat patients/clients like they are machines. She did not have my MRI scan and yet was able to make a willy nilly assessment by asking a few questions.
She noticed I was in pain and asked if my pain had improved.
It had got worse i told her.
She asked what I was taking for pain.
I told her and said it wasn't helping. She didn't recognise the pain killer (targin).
She asked if I had become incontinent.
I said I hadn't.
She said I would need surgery and asked am I ok with that.
I said I didn't like the idea, but knew it would be necessary.
She said I would be put on the waiting list and would be seen soon.
I asked what "soon" meant, in terms of weeks, months or years.
She said my case wasn't urgent, because i was basically in control of my bladder.
I said i have had to receive counselling as a result of the pain and had recently turned to alcohol for relief and the injury was having a significant impact on my life. Being young and having 4 young children wasn't even taken into consideration. My quality of life was of no concern to her.
She said that i would be referred to a pain clinic, but explained nothing and basically rushed me out. She was very dismissive of my GP but it was she who didn't know her medications.

I was by far the person in the most pain. other patients appeared to be just follow ups, with only one person having a bit of a limp. I suspect the secretary didn't hand my file over until my wife approached her, because three groups of appointments had been and gone while we waited.

I wasn't in a fit state to argue, but I feel really angry about this. I was stunned by how quickly i was in and out without being told anything.

Tell your GP you are using alcohol as well for pain relief :

goz83 wrote: »

As a therapist.....................

.................. recently turned to alcohol for relief.............................

...................She was very dismissive of my GP but it was she who didn't know her medications...................

..........................................................She didn't recognise the pain killer (targin).

RobFowl

Lay off the personal attacks and jibes

goz83

Xeyn wrote: »

The HSE is understaffed. You feel you werent given enough time during your visit - everyone who went to that clinic probably got similar times and you had to wait 2 hours - doesnt that tell you something?

Indeed it is understaffed, but extremely poorly managed on top of that.i don't see the point in giving an appointment time and being asked to come early, only to be waiting over 2 hours. It wasn't that the whole clinic was running slow. I was the only person left waiting. Everyone else was seen to within about a half hour of sitting down. I think I was delayed so long, because the secretary neglected to hand in my appointment letter until after my wife asked about the wait time. But thanks, I will put my complaint in writing. I also expected to be seen by the surgeon named, but it was a member of his team. The letter said nothing about this.

Traumadoc wrote: »

There are often 30 + ill people in the Emergency department awaiting bed, if you get a bed then they will have to wait another day in the ED.
Thats the reality of the sham that is our public healthcare system.

Doctors get upset when they have to see 40+ patients in an outpatients clinic many of whom have been waiting years, then have to put them on a waiting list years long.



BTW how do you know you are the person in most pain?

I have been through A&E a couple of times in the past and unfortunately, i am well aware of the situation.

Unless everyone in the clinic was hiding their pain, I was in more pain than anyone there. Everyone else was sitting quietly and the people sitting around me were asking my wife if I was okay. Only one man had a bit of a limp when he was called by a Doctor. I wondered for a little while if I was sitting in the right area tbh, as everyone seemed fine.

Nonoperational wrote: »

At the end of the day, you got referred to the pain clinic and you're on the waiting list for the operation. Sounds poorly done, but done all the same.

Very poorly done. The Doctor just gave her first name and seemed irritated when I was asking simple questions and explaining basic things. I never even mentioned the fact that it was a disgrace that she didn't even have my MRI to hand, which she was supposed to have. I suspect she might have taken things more seriously if she had seen that, because it shows the severity of the problem and would maybe give her a real indication of how I was feeling at that time.

lonestargirl wrote: »

I know it sounds harsh to you that they couldn't give you a timeline but neurosurgery have a large proportion of emergent patients. There are people walking around today oblivious to the fact that in the next few weeks they are going to be diagnosed with a life threatening brain tumour. When they do present they often have to be operated on within days to preserve eyesight / motor function etc. As a result schedules in this service change frequently.

Not being given a time line was very disappointing. I was looking forward to getting an estimate. But what made it harder for me, was the Doctors total lack of empathy and professionalism. I thought it was just me imagining it, but my wife said it to me after. It was like I was an inconvenience to her, rather than a patient in pain. I appreciated that she put me to the pain clinic, but she mentioned nothing about it and when I asked, she just said "they'll give you stronger medication". No explanation of what I was asking. I would have persisted, but I was in alot of pain when I was in the clinic.

gctest50 wrote: »

Tell your GP you are using alcohol as well for pain relief :

I'm really trying to avoid the alcohol altogether, but I will be upfront and tell him I had been drinking for relief. I haven't touched alcohol since Wednesday, so I think I am doing good.

Thanks for the responses.

SleepDoc

goz83 wrote: »

Indeed it is understaffed, but extremely poorly managed on top of that.i don't see the point in giving an appointment time and being asked to come early, only to be waiting over 2 hours. It wasn't that the whole clinic was running slow. I was the only person left waiting. Everyone else was seen to within about a half hour of sitting down. I think I was delayed so long, because the secretary neglected to hand in my appointment letter until after my wife asked about the wait time. But thanks, I will put my complaint in writing. I also expected to be seen by the surgeon named, but it was a member of his team. The letter said nothing about this.



I have been through A&E a couple of times in the past and unfortunately, i am well aware of the situation.

Unless everyone in the clinic was hiding their pain, I was in more pain than anyone there. Everyone else was sitting quietly and the people sitting around me were asking my wife if I was okay. Only one man had a bit of a limp when he was called by a Doctor. I wondered for a little while if I was sitting in the right area tbh, as everyone seemed fine.



Very poorly done. The Doctor just gave her first name and seemed irritated when I was asking simple questions and explaining basic things. I never even mentioned the fact that it was a disgrace that she didn't even have my MRI to hand, which she was supposed to have. I suspect she might have taken things more seriously if she had seen that, because it shows the severity of the problem and would maybe give her a real indication of how I was feeling at that time.



Not being given a time line was very disappointing. I was looking forward to getting an estimate. But what made it harder for me, was the Doctors total lack of empathy and professionalism. I thought it was just me imagining it, but my wife said it to me after. It was like I was an inconvenience to her, rather than a patient in pain. I appreciated that she put me to the pain clinic, but she mentioned nothing about it and when I asked, she just said "they'll give you stronger medication". No explanation of what I was asking. I would have persisted, but I was in alot of pain when I was in the clinic.



I'm really trying to avoid the alcohol altogether, but I will be upfront and tell him I had been drinking for relief. I haven't touched alcohol since Wednesday, so I think I am doing good.

Thanks for the responses.

If you can afford it or have the insurance, going privately is probably your best (quicker) option.

Sorry about your pain, but to be blunt, if you're looking for empathy, a neurosurgeon is not the person to turn to.

goz83

SleepDoc wrote: »

If you can afford it or have the insurance, going privately is probably your best (quicker) option.

Sorry about your pain, but to be blunt, if you're looking for empathy, a neurosurgeon is not the person to turn to.

Have been advised that the surgery will likely be a minimum of 20K and would be waiting 3 months for the Mater Private.

Unfortunately I don't have the insurance in place. A combination of wife not agreeing with insurance in general :rolleyes: , me putting it off and cut to the bone finances has meant that insurance never got a look in. Mostly my own fault though.

The missing empathy is one thing. I can actually understand that. But the rudeness was something else. Being the only Doctor not dressed professionally and was half in scrubs, wearing a cartoon T-Shirt, i might have expected more tolerance than what I had received.

Nonoperational

I agree it's not on. Courtesy shouldn't be forgotten.

gctest50

goz83 wrote: »

........
The missing empathy is one thing. I can actually understand that. But the rudeness was something else. Being the only Doctor not dressed professionally and was half in scrubs, wearing a cartoon T-Shirt, i might have expected more tolerance than what I had received.

They might have seen a lot of kids that day
- bit less "scary" than them being "dressed professionally"

Maybe a kid who was in absolute ribbons and not complaining much was there before you arrived - and so used up their quota of happy for the day

this kinda craic :

Colby’s mother, Lisa, said she had asked her daughter if she could hang on until the movie arrived.

“I’m ready (to die), but I’m going to wait for the movie,” she said her daughter replied.

She couldn’t keep her eyes open to see “Up” because of the pain of her disease, so her mother narrated what was happening as the movie played.




http://on.today.com/1nbC755

goz83

gctest50 wrote: »

They might have seen a lot of kids that day
- bit less "scary" than them being "dressed professionally"

Maybe a kid who was in absolute ribbons and not complaining much was there before you arrived - and so used up their quota of happy for the day

this kinda craic :

I was in Beaumont, not Temple Street. And my point was in the lack of professionalism. Your comment isn't really helpful to me.

I have treated Doctors before, for various issues in my field and I genuinely feel sorry for the hardship they encounter. I know that most of them are frustrated by the system and are worked beyond exhaustion. But there was no excuse on this occasion.

Abby19

goz83 wrote: »

The missing empathy is one thing. I can actually understand that. But the rudeness was something else. Being the only Doctor not dressed professionally and was half in scrubs, wearing a cartoon T-Shirt, i might have expected more tolerance than what I had received.

In my experience if a doctor is wearing scrubs in an outpatient clinic in the morning they have more than likely been on call the night before. Some surgeons do wear scrubs in clinic, but they are in the minority. I am not excusing rudeness, but the HSE is not EWTD compliant. (EWTD compliance is maximum 13 hour shifts, not the 24 hour shifts that the NCHDs had to go on strike to get agreement to last year.) And being sleep deprived may have been a factor.

goz83

Abby19 wrote: »

In my experience if a doctor is wearing scrubs in an outpatient clinic in the morning they have more than likely been on call the night before. Some surgeons do wear scrubs in clinic, but they are in the minority. I am not excusing rudeness, but the HSE is not EWTD compliant. (EWTD compliance is maximum 13 hour shifts, not the 24 hour shifts that the NCHDs had to go on strike to get agreement to last year.) And being sleep deprived may have been a factor.

Yeah, i more, or less said this in my previous post. I know they often work dangerously long hours. I have been sleep deprived for several weeks now and It is more difficult to concentrate, but again, no excuse for rudeness. On top of it all, I rang my GP and he said I should have been referred to pain clinic by the neurosurgery department, but the doctor said my GP will be contacted to refer me.

This just adds to the delay.

take everything

Abby19 wrote: »

In my experience if a doctor is wearing scrubs in an outpatient clinic in the morning they have more than likely been on call the night before. Some surgeons do wear scrubs in clinic, but they are in the minority. I am not excusing rudeness, but the HSE is not EWTD compliant. (EWTD compliance is maximum 13 hour shifts, not the 24 hour shifts that the NCHDs had to go on strike to get agreement to last year.) And being sleep deprived may have been a factor.

This.
Maybe when they start treating doctors like human beings we'll see less issues like the OP has.

Vorsprung

take everything wrote: »

This.
Maybe when they start treating doctors like human beings we'll see less issues like the OP has.

We might well but there are plenty of dicks in medicine, no more than any other profession in life! Humane working hours won't change everyone!

gctest50

goz83 wrote: »

Have been advised that the surgery will likely be a minimum of 20K and would be waiting 3 months for the Mater Private.

Unfortunately I don't have the insurance in place.

It could be a really long time if you have to go on a waiting list because of that

keira143 wrote: »

I am a 25 year old female and have been struggling with pain relief for a herniated disc........................

Surgery is the next step but as I have no private health insurance I am on a waiting list of 4+ years. .........................

You might find some useful stuff here :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81979666

.

PDOWNES61

im waiting 3 and a half years for surgery on discs C5/C6 C6/C7 and dont know how long more ill bee waiting have problem with the meds for pain as most of them dont agree with me didnt have enough vhi cover as they were only giving me less than 50% and surgeon was looking up to 15 grand and that was if there was no complications grr rant over

etymon

Just re 'not knowing her medicines' - you gave a brand name of a combination medicine. If we had to learn all those names we would have to be superhuman. Doctors know the generic names for medicines and frequently have to consult a manual when patients say they are on e.g. 'Konverge Plus' or 'Targin' or (to put the boot on the either foot) 'dunno what I'm on, a pink and a yellow one in the morning'…. I think your tone there was a bit presumptuous