Illegal Driver in club matchplay?

Freemount09

This is unreal, and the villian is a right piece of work. His responses when queried by you has no place on a golf course and his personal traits have no place in a golf club.

I'm not sure you'll win this, either. But I'd deffo play hard ball now given his reactions.

If you are contemplating moving, I'd ask for half of this years subs to be returned cause you don't want to play in a club that supports this cheating. You mightn't get far with that either though but they might listen more to you if they're going to lose out more than what the whole comp brought in ?

If this was after hours you'd be told to blast him with P*ss and to be honest I don't think that is a bad option either !!

First Up

Freemount09 wrote: »

This is unreal, and the villian is a right piece of work. His responses when queried by you has no place on a golf course and his personal traits have no place in a golf club.

I'm not sure you'll win this, either. But I'd deffo play hard ball now given his reactions.

If you are contemplating moving, I'd ask for half of this years subs to be returned cause you don't want to play in a club that supports this cheating. You mightn't get far with that either though but they might listen more to you if they're going to lose out more than what the whole comp brought in ?

If this was after hours you'd be told to blast him with P*ss and to be honest I don't think that is a bad option either !!

It is grossly unfair to say the club "supports this cheating". Without verifiable evidence the club has no grounds on which to intervene. The time to sort it was on the day, when the club in question was in the guy's bag. Otherwise there is nothing to be done.

The only consolation is that he can no longer risk using his favourite driver.

Dayor Knight

tayto lover wrote: »

It is up to the accuser to prove the case. No proof = no case.

Yes, but didn't the OP see the non-conforming club.... in which case he in effect can't sign off on his opponent's score. So who is verifying the opponent's supposed win?

Dayor Knight

First Up wrote: »

It is grossly unfair to say the club "supports this cheating". Without verifiable evidence the club has no grounds on which to intervene. The time to sort it was on the day, when the club in question was in the guy's bag. Otherwise there is nothing to be done.

The only consolation is that he can no longer risk using his favourite driver.

Seems like the OP tried to sort it out on the day, but yer man stormed off. Good trick, that.

First Up

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Seems like the OP tried to sort it out on the day, but yer man stormed off. Good trick, that.

I don't think anyone is in doubt about the facts but proving it or expecting the club to intervene after the fact is a different matter. I presume the story is all over the club and the perpetrator is clearly identified. That is probably the best the OP can hope for. His own standing should not be damaged, in fact anyone whose opinion is worth valuing will support him.

newport2

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Seems like the OP tried to sort it out on the day, but yer man stormed off. Good trick, that.

What's the solution?



How about if the OP had won, and his opponent (who we know is capable of cheating and has a brass neck) just said "no you didn't, I won" and wouldn't sign his card?



Who do we believe?

Ed Winchester

OP is very quiet on his thoughts about going forward. Very curious to hear what he's going to do now.

newport2

First Up wrote: »

I don't think anyone is in doubt about the facts but proving it or expecting the club to intervene after the fact is a different matter. I presume the story is all over the club and the perpetrator is clearly identified. That is probably the best the OP can hope for. His own standing should not be damaged, in fact anyone whose opinion is worth valuing will support him.

This. You can only cheat so many times in golf and still be taken seriously

Dayor Knight

Golfnut77 wrote: »

Competition secretary got back to me this morning, he said it would indeed constitute disqualification, however he contacted my opponent and he has denied using the driver saying he had a Cobra headcover on a Titleist driver and the burden of proof is on me to show otherwise.

Astonished at his complete lack of integrity,from what could have been dismissed as just not knowing the rules, learning from it and moving on he has now crossed the line to outright lying and cheating. Obviously there's no way that I can prove that he used the driver, I held it in my hands and know for a fact it was the non conforming Cobra so essentially it's now my word against his and the Comp secretary said he has no option but to let the result stand.

I wonder how long it took him to make that one up. His every action suggests he's as guilty as sin. As other posters said, if had a titliest he could have shown that straight away. I reckon there are plenty in your club who know you're right, OP. Its a sad reflection on that guys morals, but I'm not sure it would be worth pursuing it any further. Maybe put in in writing to the committee, OP, and walk away. You've got the moral high ground anyway. It's only a game and if somebody wants to behave like that, I certainly never want to play or be in his company again. In fairness to the competition secretary, it's an awkward one for him too. Brings me back to the question though - who verifies a players win if his opponent witnesses a blatent rule breach and contests it? Sounds like a committee decision needed here though, because the OP saw the club, so accepting the story about the head cover is effectively saying the OP made it up ........ Which is the more likely?

Freemount09

First Up wrote: »

It is grossly unfair to say the club "supports this cheating". Without verifiable evidence the club has no grounds on which to intervene. The time to sort it was on the day, when the club in question was in the guy's bag. Otherwise there is nothing to be done.

The only consolation is that he can no longer risk using his favourite driver.

I agree that the time to sort this was on the day.

But I think the club could do abit more than say "well we asked him and he said your wrong - end of story move on" !?

They should ask the guy working in the proshop his version of what went on when your man came in effing and blinding, how did that conversation go?
Ask the pro, did this guy working in the pro shop mention it to you about abit of a hoo haa when Joe pulled Bob up for using his Cobra ?

They should contact everyone that he played with the last 5 times he was down on timesheet and ask them by any chance do you remember what driver he used ? What colour was it ? What colour was shaft ? Did you notice anything unusual like that he used a TM driver with a cobra headcover ? etc.

They should organise a meeting between the 2 players in front of a pannel.

The info gathered from the above could be used to produce a simple report and presented at this meeting.

A member of the committee is a regular playing partner with this guy, if he doesn't stand up and admit to his guy using this Cobra club, then the club are supporting this cheating.

By the way the report doesn't have to be that long a one liner would do, kinda along the lines of "You are a dishonest lying Pr**k"

Dayor Knight

newport2 wrote: »

What's the solution?



How about if the OP had won, and his opponent (who we know is capable of cheating and has a brass neck) just said "no you didn't, I won" and wouldn't sign his card?



Who do we believe?

I don't have one, apart from my thoughts in previous post. It's an interesting one though. Perhaps someone more au fait with the procedures around disputed results will enlighten us...... ?

And of course is it worth it.......?

Goldenjohn

Freemount09 wrote: »

This is unreal, and the villian is a right piece of work. His responses when queried by you has no place on a golf course and his personal traits have no place in a golf club.

I'm not sure you'll win this, either. But I'd deffo play hard ball now given his reactions.

If you are contemplating moving, I'd ask for half of this years subs to be returned cause you don't want to play in a club that supports this cheating. You mightn't get far with that either though but they might listen more to you if they're going to lose out more than what the whole comp brought in ?

If this was after hours you'd be told to blast him with P*ss and to be honest I don't think that is a bad option either !!

Firstly I think you should ask for a personal hearing with the committee to explain the full facts from the match & request the other individual is brought before the committee to explain their version of events, its the least you deserve. Unfortunately I dont believe they will reverse their decision but it at least gives you the opportunity to air in a formal way the events as they unfolded for future records. In the case of an incident occuring in the future these will be on record for reference by the committee.

Given the character you are dealing with I dont think you can really do as highlighted above as this would give the opponent an excuse as to your motive for the accusation..."ah sure yer man was just trying to get his money back as he wanted to leave the club anyway". I would also say you should retract the offer of playing the beaten opponent from the previous round & just allow that guy or the next opponent a bye if successful as a way to demonstrate you have nothing to gain from his DQ other than upholding the integrity of the game & the competition.

Lastly fair play to you for calling it as it can be a difficult thing to do. I can only imagine you did'nt think there was such an issue at the time as you thought it was just a case of ignorance as opposed to blatant cheating. It just goes to show what we often perceive as ignorance is in a lot of cases just plain and simple cheating and proves why we should call ruling infringements when we see them rather than take the easy option and turn a blind eye. We all B1tch & moan about cheats & handicap builders but its up to us to do our bit to try & eliminate it.

I hope it comes to some sort of satisfactory conclusion for you. Best of luck

GreeBo

Montgolfier wrote: »

What should he do, wrestle the driver off the guy?
All I'm saying is every other rule, that you may break doesn't have to be proven. How could it? You accidentally grounded your club in a hazard. Response would be "no I didn't prove it."

Of course they have to be proven!
Otherwise, again, I could just call you on grounding your club; are you telling me that you'd just accept that, even if you didn't think you had?

rrpc

If it was me, I'd be making a point of shouting cheerily across the car park/bar/locker room "How's that Titleist driver going for you?" and "bet you're glad you got rid of that awful Cobra yoke" etc.

He'd start to develop that hunted look before long

Montgolfier

GreeBo wrote: »

Of course they have to be proven!
Otherwise, again, I could just call you on grounding your club; are you telling me that you'd just accept that, even if you didn't think you had?

I don't think that's an argument I would like to pursue. There is no right answer, game of integrity etc.
let's leave it there.

First Up

Montgolfier wrote: »

I don't think that's an argument I would like to pursue. There is no right answer, game of integrity etc.
let's leave it there.

I think the perpetrator has won a very minor battle but has comprehensively lost a much bigger war. His reputation is (or should be) in tatters. I think if I was the OP I would settle for that and hold my head high.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

I think the perpetrator has won a very minor battle but has comprehensively lost a much bigger war. His reputation is (or should be) in tatters. I think if I was the OP I would settle for that and hold my head high.

Reputation is in tatters in the OP's eyes, everyone else has to make up their own minds as to which of them is lying.

m r c

GreeBo wrote: »

Reputation is in tatters in the OP's eyes, everyone else has to make up their own minds as to which of them is lying.

You still using that old cobra Greebo? :-)

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

Reputation is in tatters in the OP's eyes, everyone else has to make up their own minds as to which of them is lying.

I doubt that will be hard - or take long.

dak

Pity the Op didn't take a picture of the illegal club!

Dayor Knight

dak wrote: »

Pity the Op didn't take a picture of the illegal club!

Ah well, they'd probably say he photoshopped it. Sure, didn't yer man say he didn't do it....

Benny Cake

Dayor Knight wrote: »

Ah well, they'd probably say he photoshopped it. Sure, didn't yer man say he didn't do it....

DQ for using iPhone on the course

slave1

Benny Cake wrote: »

DQ for using iPhone on the course

They're legal now

Dbu

a similar club has popped up on donedeal for €70
buy it and stick it in his bag while he isn't looking, the shout cheat...lol

blackwhite

Dbu wrote: »

a similar club has popped up on donedeal for €70
buy it and stick it in his bag while he isn't looking, the shout cheat...lol

I wonder if the OP lives in Laois, or if his opponent is married to Joan

Shady Tady

blackwhite wrote: »

I wonder if the OP lives in Laois, or if his opponent is married to Joan

Does it come with a free titlest cover???

blackwhite

Shady Tady wrote: »

Does it come with a free titlest cover???

"Titleist cover sold separately" :pac::pac:

Montgolfier

Would this be a conforming driver?

http://www.donedeal.ie/view/7181674
king cobra driver for sale

Seve OB

it would be some craic if your man did actually put it up for sale on donedeal..... that might be the proof OP would require

charlieIRL

Lads, just want to warn ye to all air on the side of caution when posting about the opponent in this matter - we have no idea what way this may turn out. Bad and all as the opponent and his attitude was, we don't want to be starting a witch hunt either