supervising driver

ninty

Is there any legal responsibility on me if i agree to supervise a learner driver and there is an accident which i could have prevented. e.g. They go through a red light at 80 and i am reading a paper.an extreme example but you know what i mean.
Have been looking at UK rules (Remember that the supervising driver is legally the main driver of the vehicle. This means that all road laws also apply to you, even if you are not driving yourself. In the United Kingdom, the supervising driver MUST be over 21 years old and have held a Full UK Licence for over 3 years. You should not be under the influence of any alcohol or drugs when accompanying a learner driver, and you must not operate a mobile phone or other electronic device) but cant find irish ones.

hullaballoo

It's an interesting question.

I'm not going to back this up with any law or anything because it's all plain as day to me and I don't feel the need to regurgitate the books in my library but yes, the supervising driver could be considered negligent in the above situation.

That said, it would be unusual for a supervising driver to be covered by insurance qua supervising driver. I'm not sure there is such provision in most insurance contracts here at the moment. In that case, the driver's insurance would normally have to pay out. Generally it wouldn't be worth the insurance company's time to pursue the supervising driver.

I'd probably sue both the driver and supervisor and let them sort it out between them (or their respective insurance companies, in reality).

No Pants

If the supervising driver is responsible and the vehicle is nabbed by a Go-Safe speeding, who should get the fine and point?

a) The learner driver
b) The supervising driver
c) Both

hullaballoo

Easy a).

Civil and criminal liability operate in totally different spheres when it comes to driving.

Zambia

No Pants wrote: »

If the supervising driver is responsible and the vehicle is nabbed by a Go-Safe speeding, who should get the fine and point?

a) The learner driver
b) The supervising driver
c) Both

d) the person who owns the foot on the pedal.

ninty

So i am purely window dressing with no legal responsibility as per UK law.This is all i could find as regard legislation
(iv) a person provisionally licensed to drive vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED shall not drive such a vehicle unless he or she is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person,
Why is legislation enacted requiring a supervising driver yet no resposibilities legal or otherwise attached to said driver,am i missing something here.
What happens in case of driving test where the tester is the supervising driver,conflict of interests? Yet to hear of a tester telling driver where they are likly to commit a serious error on test.

coylemj

ninty wrote: »

Why is legislation enacted requiring a supervising driver yet no resposibilities legal or otherwise attached to said driver,am i missing something here.

The requirement to be accompanied by a supervising driver is on the learner driver. I haven't read the legislation recently but I think the requirement is that the learner is simply 'accompanied' so technically I see no reason why the 'supervisor' couldn't be doing the crossword or asleep at the time.

AFAIK the only time an action or omission by a driver (learner or otherwise) can involve criminal liability on the part of others is when a person drives uninsured at which point the owner of the vehicle can be prosecuted.

No Pants

coylemj wrote: »

The requirement to be accompanied by a supervising driver is on the learner driver. I haven't read the legislation recently but I think the requirement is that the learner is simply 'accompanied' so technically I see no reason why the 'supervisor' couldn't be doing the crossword or asleep at the time.

Wasn't there a discussion here previously, might be a year or two ago by now, on the requirement of the accompanying driver to be sober?

ninty

Can you supervise and do a crossword at the same time,i personally think that if you agree to supervise a learner driver and they are involved in an accident then you could be held responsible,awaiting the first case and then the floodgates will open,people doing the driving test and failing will have written proof that they were not warned of impending traffic offences on which they failed by their supervising driver.

coylemj

ninty wrote: »

Can you supervise and do a crossword at the same time,i personally think that if you agree to supervise a learner driver and they are involved in an accident then you could be held responsible,awaiting the first case and then the floodgates will open,people doing the driving test and failing will have written proof that they were not warned of impending traffic offences on which they failed by their supervising driver.

There is a difference between the role of a supervisor and an instructor. If someone failed their test and then tried to sue the person who had accompanied them on practice drives, they'd be laughed out of court, especially now that taking a set number of lessons from an approved driving instructor is a prerequisite to doing the test.

ninty

That is my point There is a difference between the role of a supervisor and an instructor so who is taking the legally required role of supervisor when being tested.

coylemj

ninty wrote: »

That is my point There is a difference between the role of a supervisor and an instructor so who is taking the legally required role of supervisor when being tested.

The examiner of course, he or she has a full licence.

ninty

coylemj wrote: »

The examiner of course, he or she has a full licence.

So there is no difference between the examiner and the supervisor as they are both the same person,a bit of a conflict of interests.Will i warn him of upcoming danger(supervisor hat) or let him fail(tester Hat)

No Pants

ninty wrote: »

So there is no difference between the examiner and the supervisor as they are both the same person,a bit of a conflict of interests.Will i warn him of upcoming danger(supervisor hat) or let him fail(tester Hat)

There are lots of things on the checksheet that you can fail on that are not especially dangerous.

coylemj

ninty wrote: »

So there is no difference between the examiner and the supervisor as they are both the same person,a bit of a conflict of interests.Will i warn him of upcoming danger(supervisor hat) or let him fail(tester Hat)

The law doesn't place any responsibilities on what you are calling the 'superviser driver'. All the law in Ireland says is that a person with a learner permit must be accompanied by a person who holds a full licence for that class of vehicle and has done so for at least two years.

AFAIK (as suggested earlier by No Pants) there is a requirement that the accompanying driver not be drunk but beyond that, the law places no particular responsibilities on their shoulders and as I said earlier, they could be doing a crossword or be asleep and I'm not aware that any rule or regulation would be broken.

If the learner driver breaks the speed limit or causes an accident, there is no route by which the accompanying driver could be held criminally liable since in both cases it's only the driver that can be prosecuted.

Civil liability would be a different matter though the ultimate liability as in all cases rests with the owner of the vehicle regardless of who is behind the wheel or accompanying them.

ninty

coylemj wrote: »

The law doesn't place any responsibilities on what you are calling the 'superviser driver'. All the law in Ireland says is that a person with a learner permit must be accompanied by a person who holds a full licence for that class of vehicle and has done so for at least two years.

(iv) a person provisionally licensed to drive vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED shall not drive such a vehicle unless he or she is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person. 1999 Road Traffic Act
I see the word supervision mentioned there.