Collie with spondylosis.

beveragelady

Got the diagnosis today, my chap has spondylosis. There seems to be just one spur, in the lumbar region. He's 8 and 1/2 and he's not carrying any extra weight at all. I know it's not the end of the world, but it's still a bit upsetting when you get this sort of news. Because of his breed and all the careful minding he gets I had assumed that we still had years of hillwalking and adventuring ahead of us. (This is the same fella who had symmetrical lupoid onychodystrophy not so long ago, which in turn lead to liver complications. Poor fecker just can't catch a break.)
He will be taking Rimadyl for the next two weeks, then we have another appointment at the vet.
My questions are:
Can anybody suggest anything I can do to help him? Exercise, diet, anything at all to make life easier for him. For example, should he be swimming instead of walking? I will move mountains if necessary.
I made the mistake of googling Rimadyl. Has anybody had success using this drug?

aonb

No experience of Spondylosis OP except to say Im sorry that your dog has been diagnosed, but do know that many many dogs do not have any pain with this condition, hopefully your fellow will be one of those. He is fortunate not to be carrying any weight at least. Hopefully he will have many years left albeit with restricted exercise maybe, hope you can both manage the condition without too much pain and upset - wish you both the very best, let us know how he goes on the drug

Millem

beveragelady wrote: »

Got the diagnosis today, my chap has spondylosis. There seems to be just one spur, in the lumbar region. He's 8 and 1/2 and he's not carrying any extra weight at all. I know it's not the end of the world, but it's still a bit upsetting when you get this sort of news. Because of his breed and all the careful minding he gets I had assumed that we still had years of hillwalking and adventuring ahead of us. (This is the same fella who had symmetrical lupoid onychodystrophy not so long ago, which in turn lead to liver complications. Poor fecker just can't catch a break.)
He will be taking Rimadyl for the next two weeks, then we have another appointment at the vet.
My questions are:
Can anybody suggest anything I can do to help him? Exercise, diet, anything at all to make life easier for him. For example, should he be swimming instead of walking? I will move mountains if necessary.
I made the mistake of googling Rimadyl. Has anybody had success using this drug?

My old dog has it along with hip dysplasia and arthritis. She gets metacam for it. There is not a bother on her. 6.30 am she literally dances around for her breakfast. We buy the big metacam but once we ran out and vet was waiting on delivery and she was so stiff and found it hard getting in and out of car. Vet doesn't seem to concerned. She was getting arthriaid too for a while. We haven't repeated x rays but she is happy out! We keep her lean as with the other dogs. She is only allowed dog food. She loves swimming too but since she lost her sight it is hard to bring her outside past the green!

boomerang

My beloved dog had spondylosis. This link will be really helpful to you:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritis.html

jcco

Start him on joint supplements, glucosamine and chondroitin. Get a good hydrotherapy clinic on board, and don't over-exercise him. Rimadyl is good, but you can try previcox if rimadyl doesn't work Main thing is to slow down with the exercise and keep his weight down. Best of luck!
P.S. don't worry about rimadyl as a drug...it's very safe. But ask your vet to make sure kidneys/liver, etc. are okay if you use it long term for him.

DBB

boomerang wrote: »

My beloved dog had spondylosis. This link will be really helpful to you:

http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritis.html

That link says everything I wanted to say... woohoo! Nice one Boomerang!
I'd also suggest that you investigate Cartrophen (mentioned in the blog), given as a course of 4 injections every 6-ish months. It helps to re-build cartilage and synovial fluid, it acts as a painkiller, and hasn't got as many of the rather worrying potential side-effects that long-term use of Metacam or the likes has. My vet is a real joint and bone specialist, and she uses this stuff a lot on dogs with various age-related musculoskeletal conditions.

Salmon oil, a BIG yes to, also any oily fish in their original packaging that you can get (i.e. the whole fish!) though in small doses perhaps... my own dogs seem to get a tad queasy if fed too much in one go.

There's a girl in Kilkenny who I met last week, newly qualified as a canine massage therapist (I think she may be the only one qualified specifically in this area in Ireland). She can identify sore spots and do deep-muscle massage on dogs, I'm hoping to get a few sessions with my elderly dog with her. Spondylosis would most certainly be well within her remit! If you'd like her number, just let me know and I'll PM details to you.

Hydrotherapy could only be of great benefit to him too, to let him exercise without putting his joints/spine under too much pressure. Does he like swimming?

In winter, a Snugglesafe pad or other microwave heat-pad in his bedding near his sore spot should bring him a lot of comfort.

That's all I can think of for now! There's no reason why he can't continue to have a reasonably normal life, as long as he doesn't overdo things, and there's a fair bit you can do to help him along the way.
Good luck!

maggiepip

+1 as dbb said for asking about Cartrophen. My collie has back issues which includes calicifying disks and my vet uses Cartrophen, it can also be used alongside NSAIDS such as metacam/rimydal if needed, although its advised not to give NSAIDS within the 24 hours of the cartrophen injection.

Cartrophen can be given as one four week course and monthly boosters if needed, or given in courses throughout the year when needed. My dog only gets literally a drop of metacam these days and you wouldn't know there's a thing wrong with her most of the time. I think some vets associate cartrophen with only arthritis treatment, whereas its anti inflammatory properties make it an excellent treatment for lots of orthopedic problems. Its great for pain and can actually help to repair. And its very safe with hardly any side effects.

I also give gloucosamine, fish oil, coconut oil, ester c and feed good amounts of fish such as sardines. I hope things go well for you

Millem

We have been able to reduce the dosage down for metacam but she needs it for her glaucoma too so we are killing two birds with one stone! We get blood tests maybe once a year as she is on metacam. I must look up these injections.

beveragelady

Thanks everyone! I'm a little calmer now, I really wish I hadn't bothered googling drugs, symptoms and prognosis last night.
As a result of your input and a bit of rational thought on my own part I have a list of questions to ask the vet. I'm going to ring them tomorrow.
To make matters even more complicated we currently have a seven month old pup staying with us. He's gorgeous, a a great little fella, but he has developed a bit of an adolescent crush on my own boy and follows him around adoringly. My boy just keeps trying to get away from him, and I suppose this is causing him some stress. I'm going to walk them separately and bring the pup with me when I go anywhere to give my own dogs some breathing space.
Luckily my fella loves to swim. I'm going to bring him to the lake as often as I can over the next while. He's incredibly hairy so a towel will never get him really dry, but I can dry him off in the sun or at the fire so he isn't wet for long. (Hairdryers are absolutely out!). Will unheated water cause problems?
Again, thanks for all the advice. He's a great dog, a real hero in lots of ways, he deserves the best treatment I can get for him and the best quality of life possible.

maggiepip

Collies are amazing dogs best of luck.

belongtojazz

DBB wrote: »

My vet is a real joint and bone specialist, and she uses this stuff a lot on dogs with various age-related musculoskeletal conditions. --- I think we use the same vet in Slane? she is an absolute wonder, cartrophen (or Jungle Juice) is great

Salmon oil, a BIG yes to, also any oily fish in their original packaging that you can get (i.e. the whole fish!) though in small doses perhaps... my own dogs seem to get a tad queasy if fed too much in one go.

There's a girl in Kilkenny who I met last week, newly qualified as a canine massage therapist (I think she may be the only one qualified specifically in this area in Ireland). She can identify sore spots and do deep-muscle massage on dogs, I'm hoping to get a few sessions with my elderly dog with her. Spondylosis would most certainly be well within her remit! If you'd like her number, just let me know and I'll PM details to you. - One of my terriers was a test subject for this girl while she was qualifying and we are actually off to see her this evening, she is brilliant and very very good with the dogs

Hydrotherapy could only be of great benefit to him too, to let him exercise without putting his joints/spine under too much pressure. Does he like swimming? My other terrier has regular hydro as he had to have the top of his femur removed last year and is suffering with a spinal condition, he HATES the hydro but it is a nessecary evil unfortunately.

!

I would also recommend green lipped mussel capsules I believe they help my youngest, he was able to come off the nerve blocker pills for a period and I think it was these that helped.

boomerang

By the way OP, I should have said:

My vet devastated me when my collie girl was eight with a diagnosis of spondylosis. He even persuaded me to buy a ramp for getting her in and out of the car, and told me not to let her jump up anymore. (This for a dog whose speciality was jumping up to hang out of the lowest-lying branches of trees and hang there for up to twelve or fifteen seconds, using her tail as a propellor.)

After that she always had Arthri-Aid (with the occasional break from it) and fish oil capsules (ditto on the occasional break) and you know what? The spondylosis never bothered her one jot. I kept her weight in check of course. She was very fit and very active (and hillwalking with us strenuously) for the rest of her life. A diagnosis of spondylosis does not necessarily mean that your dog is suffering any pain. It really depends on the extent of the spondylosis and if the dog is showing signs - e.g. reluctance to jump up.

DBB

Hi Belongtojazz, good to see you posting here again!
Yes, we both use the same vet, but I've never heard her refer to the Cartrophen as Jungle Juice

Great to get a first-hand reference for the canine massage therapist in Kilkenny, I really liked her attitude towards my own dogs and she seems like a great girl!

And not for the first time, I see mention of green-lipped mussel capsules, but this time must resolve to find out more
Where do you folks get them, because I know you'll have found great value somewhere!:P

My last GSD had spondylosis, and like Boomerang's lady, it never really limited her, so hopefully your fella will be the same OP

beveragelady

OP back again. I bought a supplement that has glucosamine and chondroitin among other things. It was the only one I could get my hands on today, so I thought it's better than nothing until I can do the research and compare brands. It's called Stride, and it comes in liquid form. He gobbled it up in his dinner. Anybody able to recommend an other brand, or give guidelines of how many mg of each he should be getting for best results? He weighs almost 20kg.

boomerang wrote: »

After that she always had Arthri-Aid (with the occasional break from it) and fish oil capsules (ditto on the occasional break) and you know what? The spondylosis never bothered her one jot. I kept her weight in check of course. She was very fit and very active (and hillwalking with us strenuously) for the rest of her life. A diagnosis of spondylosis does not necessarily mean that your dog is suffering any pain. It really depends on the extent of the spondylosis and if the dog is showing signs - e.g. reluctance to jump up.

It's great to think that the hillwalking might continue. I had resigned myself to putting my hillwalking gear away out of sight, or even giving it all away, because it bothers me to see it hanging in readiness on its hook. I'll keep it where it is for another while, it would be just amazing if we managed a few more adventures.
At least I don't have to worry at all about his weight, he's in great shape. I have another lady who needs a really good walk every day so there might be a bit of juggling for a while.
Funny thing: A few months ago I started a thread asking for suggestions amusing a six year old dog who never plays. Well, today I was pottering around at the front of the house, feeling a bit gloomy about the whole spondylosis thing. The visiting puppy kept pestering her to make her play with him... and she did! I have video footage and everything! I'd never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. Aged six and three quarters, she played for the first time ever! They're full of surprises, and brimming with lessons in optimism!

muddypaws

Stride is good, and Joint Aid is another very good one, and in fact its in one of the Skinner's dog food varieties as an additive. I've been giving it to one of my older dogs, who has spinal issues, and it is definitely helping him. He has also had massage therapy, and again, I think that has helped, the therapist didn't touch his spine, as the vet didn't want her to, but, like ourselves, if you have pain somewhere, you tend to hunch up, which can lead to tension in the muscles. She felt him very tight in his neck, shoulders and along his sides, so she loosened those muscles up, and he is moving more freely.

DBB

Stride (or is it Stride Plus? It'd contain hyaluronic acid and msm if so), is a really good supplement op, I used to buy the big bottles for horses because it is exactly the same as the dog stuff, and considerably cheaper!

beveragelady

DBB wrote: »

Stride (or is it Stride Plus? It'd contain hyaluronic acid and msm if so), is a really good supplement op, I used to buy the big bottles for horses because it is exactly the same as the dog stuff, and considerably cheaper!

It's Stride plus. I wonder if the one for horses tastes the same, or is it designed to be palatable for horses.

DBB

beveragelady wrote: »

It's Stride plus. I wonder if the one for horses tastes the same, or is it designed to be palatable for horses.

It certainly looks the same, has identical ingredients, and to me at least, tastes the same :-D

ferretone

My vet put Lola on the Cartrophen as well, but she just gets one injection every 6 months, in conjunction with 2 20mg tablets of Trocoxil, once a month. He says he finds that's both the least harsh and most effective method of giving NSAIDs for these sorts of problems. Would be interested to hear what other people's opinions are regarding this statement, particularly Boomerang and DBB. I also give Stride, mainly because it took a while for that approach to take full effect, but also continue, as I feel it really can't hurt.

However, these days I am seeing a totally different dog compared to before we started these drugs. She was breaking my heart before: she's only 8, and I was thinking I'd have to say goodbye pretty soon. Where nowadays, alright she doesn't move quite as she did when she was young, she does love to run, is very happy in herself, and I can see her go on quite happily as she is for a few more years. And this is a dog with a good bit more going on than just normal spondylosis: it was brought on by a slipped disc 2 years ago, and it seems that in turn was brought on by an incipient bone infection from a dodgy docking as a pup, long before we had her. It took us a good half year to get on top of that once we even discovered it.

After that, we still had to pick up the pieces, as detailed above, getting her onto the NSAID cocktail that is suiting her, and I am just incredibly thankful that we now have our very-much-beloved dog back, and a good hope that we have her back for a few years yet. I have to say I am very happy indeed with the combination she is on, and can hardly believe the difference in her.

maggiepip

ferretone wrote: »

My vet put Lola on the Cartrophen as well, but she just gets one injection every 6 months, in conjunction with 2 20mg tablets of Trocoxil, once a month. He says he finds that's both the least harsh and most effective method of giving NSAIDs for these sorts of problems. Would be interested to hear what other people's opinions are regarding this statement, particularly Boomerang and DBB. I also give Stride, mainly because it took a while for that approach to take full effect, but also continue, as I feel it really can't hurt.

However, these days I am seeing a totally different dog compared to before we started these drugs. She was breaking my heart before: she's only 8, and I was thinking I'd have to say goodbye pretty soon. Where nowadays, alright she doesn't move quite as she did when she was young, she does love to run, is very happy in herself, and I can see her go on quite happily as she is for a few more years. And this is a dog with a good bit more going on than just normal spondylosis: it was brought on by a slipped disc 2 years ago, and it seems that in turn was brought on by an incipient bone infection from a dodgy docking as a pup, long before we had her. It took us a good half year to get on top of that once we even discovered it.

After that, we still had to pick up the pieces, as detailed above, getting her onto the NSAID cocktail that is suiting her, and I am just incredibly thankful that we now have our very-much-beloved dog back, and a good hope that we have her back for a few years yet. I have to say I am very happy indeed with the combination she is on, and can hardly believe the difference in her.

Id never heard of Trocoxil and just googled it there. Is it supposed to be easier on their tummy/system as its only given once a month? I know the exact feeling of "getting your dog back" it was the very same for us when Molly started getting the correct treatments. Wonderful isn't it! :-)

belongtojazz

DBB wrote: »

Great to get a first-hand reference for the canine massage therapist in Kilkenny, I really liked her attitude towards my own dogs and she seems like a great girl! - There is a photo on her facebook page today that my friend took off Jazz having her massage last night, Jazz is so small you can hardly see her

And not for the first time, I see mention of green-lipped mussel capsules, but this time must resolve to find out more - I buy it in Holland and Barrett when they have the specials on, my smallest terrier (5.3kg) gets 1 capsule and my other guy (sir limps a lot 7.5kg) I give 2, I open the capsule and sprinkle it on their food, for some reason I don't like them to have the outer part of the capsule- but that's just me being odd

.

andreac

DBB Can you pm me the name and details of that lady that does the massage if you dont mind?

Many thanks.

DBB

andreac wrote: »

DBB Can you pm me the name and details of that lady that does the massage if you dont mind?

Many thanks.

I see no reason why I shouldn't link to her facebook page here, as it's another resource for people that they may not otherwise be aware of:
https://m.facebook.com/caninemassagetherapyireland?_rdr