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Losing / Gaining Shots : The mental side of things

  • 30-06-2014 04:16PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭


    So I was just recalling my rather mental, mental approach, to losing / gaining shot(s) last year when I started:

    I've mentioned this to a few low guys and they look at me as if I've two heads: but as a beginner and a high HC it was all very real.

    Maybe some low guys will have some helpful hints (once they stop laughing at us ;) ) and I'd be interested to see if anyone has this irrational thought process.

    Thankfully I'm no longer in that mindset, but it took me a full year to get out of it.

    While I had plenty of debates with a certain mod around my disagreement of playing "bogey golf" ;)
    I definitely had a "bogey mindset".
    I think the two are different.
    In short: One being playing for a bogey and the other being happy that a bogey was 2 points (or a "fear" that a par was required for 2 points)


    ****** Story Time ********
    My only concern is getting lower but that said, I drifted to 18 shortly after getting my initial HC of 17 last year.
    While I was a bit gutted for a few days, it was contrasted against a totally unexpected feeling during my next round.
    I was playing poorly and was walking to the Par 3 17th, index 18. I came across with a sudden buzz..... I have a shot here!!!!
    I had about 23 points at the time with 2 holes left, a hole in one and an eagle on the last would have still meant another depressing plus 1..... But here I was buzzing because I didn't have to par for 2points!!!!! :):(

    I couldn't explain it, it's just madness.

    Conversely, when I got my game together and got cut a shot towards the end of the year my next few rounds were filled with "I've no shot on index 18 now" panic.

    I was relaying that story to a guy off 10 (who has been yoyo'ing between 8-12 for a long time) recently and he just couldn't believe it.
    Thankfully there was another higher HC'er with us to confirm that he had this same irrational thinking.
    ***** The End *******

    So, was I just lucky to have another lad there to confirm he felt the same or is it a thing we struggle with?


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭dcrosskid


    I stopped thinking about points a long time ago. I start thinking about strokes now and aim to Par or birdie after every shot rather than prior to every hole. For example I was playing last Saturday, hit a good drive on a par 5 but shanked the 2nd right when I was going for the green. Still had a shot to the green luckily enough so all I was thinking about how can I give myself a birdie chance here, got it onto the green for a 25ft putt that I missed. Very simplistic way of looking at it but I find it works for me.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    Well I think if you stand on the tee box and immediately think I've a shot here it can at times be negative thinking. You've already subconsciously told yourself a bogey on that hole will give you 2 and even better a par will give you 3. Rather than just hitting you tee shot and finish out the hole then to write down your score to discover you had a shot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    dcrosskid wrote: »
    I stopped thinking about points a long time ago. I start thinking about strokes now and aim to Par or birdie after every shot rather than prior to every hole. For example I was playing last Saturday, hit a good drive on a par 5 but shanked the 2nd right when I was going for the green. Still had a shot to the green luckily enough so all I was thinking about how can I give myself a birdie chance here, got it onto the green for a 25ft putt that I missed. Very simplistic way of looking at it but I find it works for me.

    Are you a low HC'er dcross?
    I just ask because I generally find that it doesn't come into a low guys thinking as they're well used to not having shots.

    I'm getting to the stage where it's shot by shot thinking myself but it hasn't come easy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭mafc


    I never look at indexes, just play the course shot by shot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman


    I am playing better now off 14 / 15 than I ever did off 18 as the loss of the 'comfort' shots has really helped to smarten up my game. (some of the time anyway!)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I'm 10 (have been 8) and never think about shots for two reasons:

    1) We rarely play stableford, vast majority of comps are strokes. (Cat 4 always have the option of Stableford)
    2) it doesnt change my plan for the hole.

    the only time it will enter my head is if I've had a bad hole and have a putt/chip etc left for a point.

    Also, for the (broken?) record.
    I dont specifically advise playing to avoid a par, but off 18, hitting a driver on every hole or anything more than a 5-6 iron for your second shot is madness :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I'm 10 (have been 8) and never think about shots for two reasons:

    1) We rarely play stableford, vast majority of comps are strokes. (Cat 4 always have the option of Stableford)
    2) it doesnt change my plan for the hole.

    the only time it will enter my head is if I've had a bad hole and have a putt/chip etc left for a point.

    Also, for the (broken?) record.
    I dont specifically advise playing to avoid a par, but off 18, hitting a driver on every hole or anything more than a 5-6 iron for your second shot is madness :)

    I play my stroke comps by keeping my stableford points in mind (we're just too similar ;) ) as a preventive measure of losing heart after a disaster hole if it happens.

    I've hit 8 drives in my last 3 rounds Sensei.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    I'm in and have had a major battles with this.

    When I was given my first handicap in my club , I was given 8. I couldn't actually handle been a single figure golfer at all. Didn't think I was good enough (probably wasn't) . I was freaked out by it and was playing like a 15 to 18 handicap player for a month or so.

    I almost missed the ball on my first drive as a single figure player :o:D

    I eventually got the hang of it and then got cut to 6 and the same thing happened again.

    It was like holly **** - I've to go out and break 80 most of the time.
    I hit another wall then. Most of this was mental - because i was going from a 76 / 78 one week to a 84 / 85 the following.

    So there is a massive adjustment when going down. You have to believe you are good enough to play off the handicap you have. If not, you won't.

    Some people also say , "now drive on" after a drop. But that is not as easy as people say. Sometimes if you drive on too hard - you fall apart with burn out.

    You have to teach yourself that you can do what you are suppose to be able to do. There is a funny irony in that doubtful statement :).

    Most of us have days of doubt - you return 28 points and , it is a bit embarrassing, or you top a 3 wood or blade a couple of wedges.

    Some golfers look like good golfers and you think , he looks like a single figure golfer.

    But , you have to realise as a friend said to me - most lads off lower handicaps have bad days and weeks and months too.

    It is hard work at times , and in your lower moments you go. I was better off on this + x handicap - this is just too hard.

    Then you wake up next day and have 9 holes in level or have an eagle or something. Then you feel on top of the world.

    It is why we love the game. In a way, there is never an end point. You just have to be happy that at one stage I could play to x.

    The fact there is no end point also has a trap - that some people are just never happy. This is when it gets a bit dangerous , as we love golf. And this can cause us to fall out of love with the game and begin to resent it.

    So - trust yourself. As somebody else on here said to me - you are at a handicap because you earned it. Never forget that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    PARlance wrote: »
    I play my stroke comps by keeping my stableford points in mind (we're just too similar ;) ) as a preventive measure of losing heart after a disaster hole if it happens.

    I've hit 8 drives in my last 3 rounds Sensei.

    BORING. :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    I find that if, for whatever reason I go out in a stableford mindset, I'm aware of where I used to have a shot on certain holes, whereas if my head is in a strokeplay mood I'd never be thinking of shots.

    I guess there's also holes where we have a shot and feel we don't really need one on that hole, and other holes where we don't have one but would love one ! I know I do anyway !!

    I think, for getting lower, its important not to put too much importance on your shots or handicap. If you've dropped a shot, its great, but its also nothing in a round of golf - a putt you might have missed, an extra up & down you make etc. Its very rare to come off the course and not feel you didn't leave at least one shot out there.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    I am the complete opposite, I generally play to birdie every hole from the outset, obviously that doesn't happen but on the holes where I have shots it does come into consideration for definite. It is the difference in going for a par 5 or not in a competition scenario or if in trouble playing to the front edge rather than over a bunker to a tight pin.

    It has to come into peoples thinking when playing stableford.

    The mental game is so mental:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    I don't think this is exactly off topic ParLance but I go through this over most strokes. I have to believe I'm good enough before playing it properly.
    I have literally had to walk off and me set up because in my head I'm doubting myself. I'm not talking about glory stuff either. Anything from driver down to putter. Problem is when I'm confident I can hit bladed 2 iron off the deck and when I'm not ill hit my putter fat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭the lawman


    I'd agree 100% with Russman. I used you to battle with myself about having to get a par for 2 points on high index holes or my life is over! It's just a waste of energy and you end up not focusing on the real battle as in choosing the right shot, the right club etc etc.

    Now I just think about strokes and making it around in whatever over. Never chasing anything.

    Fact is if you play off 12 and shoot 12 over you're getting 36 points no matter which holes you score on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,749 ✭✭✭dan_ep82


    I never think about the index of the holes, sometimes I find some of the higher index ones are the harder ones. I've par'd the Index one on headfort new a couple of times.

    Generally I try to get to the green in the least amount of shots I can comfortably (no 3w from the rough :D )

    Generally If I'm over 200yds out I'll be of the mindset that I'll use the club for the distance (ie 3hy) but with the thought that if I mi**** it I'll still only have a pitch in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Even in stapleford comp's I generally play strokes in my head. Shots on particular holes never come into it for a simple enough reason. Some holes will play easier on a particular day and others harder, or you might play the index 1 with flawless shots and the index 18 with a couple of tops. one will balance out the other. Just try not scratch a hole

    EG. 14 holes with 2 points each + 2 holes with 1 point each + 2 holes with 3 points each = 36 points. perfect round

    In stapleford it actually doesn't mater a damn where the shots come, because if it was strokes, would you beat yourself up at the end of the day to finish nett level par???.

    THE ONLY TIME INDEXES & SHOTS ON A HOLE REALLY COUNT. = Matchplay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    stevieob wrote: »
    In stapleford it actually doesn't mater a damn where the shots come,

    Of course it doesn't matter in "STAPLEFORD" Stevie:p:p:p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    stevieob wrote: »
    Even in stapleford comp's I generally play strokes in my head. Shots on particular holes never come into it for a simple enough reason. Some holes will play easier on a particular day and others harder, or you might play the index 1 with flawless shots and the index 18 with a couple of tops. one will balance out the other. Just try not scratch a hole

    EG. 14 holes with 2 points each + 2 holes with 1 point each + 2 holes with 3 points each = 36 points. perfect round

    In stapleford it actually doesn't mater a damn where the shots come, because if it was strokes, would you beat yourself up at the end of the day to finish nett level par???.

    THE ONLY TIME INDEXES & SHOTS ON A HOLE REALLY COUNT. = Matchplay.

    Well it does matter in stableford, the same number of strokes in a stableford comp doesnt necessarily mean the same score (if you are over par)

    An OOB ball on a hole with a shot is better than an OOB ball on a hole with no shot in stableford. In strokes its meaningless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well it does matter in stableford, the same number of strokes in a stableford comp doesnt necessarily mean the same score (if you are over par)

    An OOB ball on a hole with a shot is better than an OOB ball on a hole with no shot in stableford. In strokes its meaningless.

    Agree with GreeBo here. except when you are a very low handicap player you are going for every hole in regulation.

    But the index of holes - has to act as guide to a player and feed into his strategy for a hole.

    In my opinion the index of a hole is more important to higher handicap players.

    When you get low enough , you are aiming to play the hole in regulation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭Wichita Lineman


    always remember

    "Golf is 90 percent mental and the other 10 percent is mental" :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭Carpo86


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well it does matter in stableford, the same number of strokes in a stableford comp doesnt necessarily mean the same score (if you are over par)

    An OOB ball on a hole with a shot is better than an OOB ball on a hole with no shot in stableford. In strokes its meaningless.

    If I was going to hit it OB I'd prefer to hit it on a hole where I didn't have a shot then one where I did. Better to have 'the disaster' on a hole where double bogey is the worst possible result than one where you can take triple.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 257 ✭✭dcrosskid


    PARlance wrote: »
    Are you a low HC'er dcross?
    I just ask because I generally find that it doesn't come into a low guys thinking as they're well used to not having shots.

    I'm getting to the stage where it's shot by shot thinking myself but it hasn't come easy.

    Not really Par, playing off 12 but reckon I can play a bit lower if I got the chance, only other sports and work are half hindering me is what I keep telling myself anyways. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,305 ✭✭✭slingerz


    PARlance wrote: »
    So I was just recalling my rather mental, mental approach, to losing / gaining shot(s) last year when I started:

    I've mentioned this to a few low guys and they look at me as if I've two heads: but as a beginner and a high HC it was all very real.

    Maybe some low guys will have some helpful hints (once they stop laughing at us ;) ) and I'd be interested to see if anyone has this irrational thought process.

    Thankfully I'm no longer in that mindset, but it took me a full year to get out of it.

    While I had plenty of debates with a certain mod around my disagreement of playing "bogey golf" ;)
    I definitely had a "bogey mindset".
    I think the two are different.
    In short: One being playing for a bogey and the other being happy that a bogey was 2 points (or a "fear" that a par was required for 2 points)


    ****** Story Time ********
    My only concern is getting lower but that said, I drifted to 18 shortly after getting my initial HC of 17 last year.
    While I was a bit gutted for a few days, it was contrasted against a totally unexpected feeling during my next round.
    I was playing poorly and was walking to the Par 3 17th, index 18. I came across with a sudden buzz..... I have a shot here!!!!
    I had about 23 points at the time with 2 holes left, a hole in one and an eagle on the last would have still meant another depressing plus 1..... But here I was buzzing because I didn't have to par for 2points!!!!! :):(

    I couldn't explain it, it's just madness.

    Conversely, when I got my game together and got cut a shot towards the end of the year my next few rounds were filled with "I've no shot on index 18 now" panic.

    I was relaying that story to a guy off 10 (who has been yoyo'ing between 8-12 for a long time) recently and he just couldn't believe it.
    Thankfully there was another higher HC'er with us to confirm that he had this same irrational thinking.
    ***** The End *******

    So, was I just lucky to have another lad there to confirm he felt the same or is it a thing we struggle with?

    Very similar to you as I'm recently off 17 and always brings the index 18 into view than ever before. I would have previosly hit driver on what is a reachable par 4 however lately I'm fearful of getting stuck behind a tree and getting a scratch. at the weekend i hit a 5i from the tee but its downhill so overhit my wedge to beyond the gree and had an impossible chip back with trees guarding the green and with the green falling away. had to play a speculative shot into the bank of the green and hope for the best. ended up with a scratch anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,374 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well it does matter in stableford, the same number of strokes in a stableford comp doesnt necessarily mean the same score (if you are over par).

    Ah but it does if you don't scratch any holes... that was part of what i was trying to say.

    I do take your point about the ball OOB though.

    I still think strokes is the best way to play golf though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Carpo86 wrote: »
    If I was going to hit it OB I'd prefer to hit it on a hole where I didn't have a shot then one where I did. Better to have 'the disaster' on a hole where double bogey is the worst possible result than one where you can take triple.

    I dont follow this logic at all? What does it matter if its a double or triple? The number of strokes is irrelevant for all metrics? Score, handicap...?

    In stableford you have 18 chances to score.

    Scoring 1 on a hole is much, much, much better than scoring 0.

    The worst possible result in a stableford comp is 0, doesnt matter if thats a double, tripled or more, 0 points is 0 points.

    You want to double the holes you have shots on so you still get 1 point. If you double the others you get zip and now need to get two nett birdies to catch up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,305 ✭✭✭slingerz


    Agree with GreeBo here. except when you are a very low handicap player you are going for every hole in regulation.

    But the index of holes - has to act as guide to a player and feed into his strategy for a hole.

    In my opinion the index of a hole is more important to higher handicap players.

    When you get low enough , you are aiming to play the hole in regulation.

    I cant say i wholly agree. In principal then yes you are correct but at my home course for example I can only think of 3 maybe 4 max where I would be playing longer than an 8i in order to make the green in regulation. And that is with taking irons off certain tees.

    For a high handicap I find the par 3s to be the holes that i score worst on with regularity


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    slingerz wrote: »

    For a high handicap I find the par 3s to be the holes that i score worst on with regularity


    Me too, par 3 scoring is terrible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ssbob wrote: »
    Me too, par 3 scoring is terrible.

    Simple reason for that, with a par 3 you have less chances to make up for a bad shot.
    Also, it should be nigh on impossible to have worse than a bogey on a par 3, but people get themselves into snowman numbers by chasing a GIR when they have no business doing it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭webels


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Simple reason for that, with a par 3 you have less chances to make up for a bad shot.
    Also, it should be nigh on impossible to have worse than a bogey on a par 3, but people get themselves into snowman numbers by chasing a GIR when they have no business doing it.

    And yet we've all done it!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 970 ✭✭✭Senecio


    The only mental issues I have with shots is that scratching a hole that I have a shot on drives me mental. I only have 6 to play with so it drives me insane to throw one away.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭Carpo86


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I dont follow this logic at all? What does it matter if its a double or triple? The number of strokes is irrelevant for all metrics? Score, handicap...?

    In stableford you have 18 chances to score.

    Scoring 1 on a hole is much, much, much better than scoring 0.

    The worst possible result in a stableford comp is 0, doesnt matter if thats a double, tripled or more, 0 points is 0 points.

    You want to double the holes you have shots on so you still get 1 point. If you double the others you get zip and now need to get two nett birdies to catch up.

    Of course it is better to have a double bogey on a hole that you have a shot on than a hole were you do not.

    That's not the point I was making though. To clarify, the logic of the point I was making is quite simple.

    Lets imagine two golfers of the same handicap playing two hypothetical rounds. In both we assume that at some point in the round each golfer is going to have 'a disaster' and take say a quadruple bogey.

    In both of these hypothetical rounds, each golfer is going to have 17 pars on the other 17 holes (the score itself is irrelevant, as long as they take the same number of shots per hole).

    If one player has his 'disaster' on a hole where he has a shot and one player has his on a hole where he does not have a shot, the player who has his disaster on a hole where he does not have a shot will score one point more.


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