Car hire/ lend

mckenfer

I'm a Greystones local travelling with my wife and kids from our home in Australia and looking for the lend of or hire car for 5 weeks mid Aug to mid Sept....would be interested to hear if you've a car to offer. Also looking for baby seats and pram.

loyatemu

someone loaning you a car would be a longshot - even if you could find someone willing it would be complicated with insurance etc. Better to hire one from the Airport.

mckenfer

Thanks loyatemu but I'm sure there are lots of people on hols over this time and I'm happy to pay for the usage so it could be a nice earner for someone while they're away. I'm not sure how insurance complicates things - many policies have open drive for +30's and if not it's really easy to add someone.

Eponymous

I doubt any insurance company would be understanding of this scenario should an accident occur and I can't think of many who'd want to risk their car, their no claims bonus or anything else for the chance of a "nice little earner" from a stranger on the internet. It's not a question of adding a driver or having an open drive policy, it's about handing your keys over to someone else in order to profit. That's what the insurance company will have a problem with. And to pretend otherwise should an accident occur is a fraud.

Whatever about lending my car to a family member or friend for a day or two, there's very little that could convince me to do it for a few quid from someone I don't know.

mckenfer

Thanks for your message Eponymous.

I'm not sure I understand your fraudulent link. The proposal would be for full disclosure under an addition to a policy. Insurance companies are only concerned with risk return. This is why open drive is widely available. If fully comp the risk is fully covered and many companies offer NCB insurance also.

To your point about being a stranger I wasn't suggesting that I would turn up without having gone through some form of introduction or diligence to the satisfaction of the owner prior to taking the vehicle. I happen to have had no claims in the 25 years I've been driving and plan on keeping it that way regardless of who owns the car I'm driving.

While there's lots of ways to point at the difficulties in this the reality is it's a widespread arrangement that people come to, under a house swap for example, where the cars are also swapped. The fact that cash is used as consideration other than the alternative property is neither here nor there and it's far from fraudulent as you're suggesting.

The fantastic thing about this is that the ultimate decision is between two parties and the views that others have is irrelevant. I'm sure that hundred of euros is quite an attractive outcome for someone who's vehicle is otherwise not in use.

If you have any productive comments on how to help rather than how this won't work then I'd be happy to hear them.

Do or do not. There is no try.

loyatemu

mckenfer wrote: »

While there's lots of ways to point at the difficulties in this the reality is it's a widespread arrangement that people come to, under a house swap for example, where the cars are also swapped. The fact that cash is used as consideration other than the alternative property is neither here nor there and it's far from fraudulent as you're suggesting.

this is true - people often swap cars as part of a house swap - is this what you are planning?

mickdw

But to say that it is easy to add you to the existing policy is not true. You are being added to the policy for reward/ payment. The insurer wont be willing to add hire drivers to a private policy.
Your other option stated wad open driving. That is not so common here but if you do find someone with that clause, again I figure it would be invalidated if they were taking payment to hire out the car.

mckenfer

mickdw wrote: »

But to say that it is easy to add you to the existing policy is not true. You are being added to the policy for reward/ payment. The insurer wont be willing to add hire drivers to a private policy.
Your other option stated wad open driving. That is not so common here but if you do find someone with that clause, again I figure it would be invalidated if they were taking payment to hire out the car.

I don't know any insurance company that would decline adding someone 35+ with full no claims for an additional payment and if my insurance company declined this I wouldn't give them my business - they are there to offer a service covering the risk to an asset you own not dictate how you use it.

House and car swapping is a rapidly growing successful market and it works on the same concept - you add someone to your car and you are provided with consideration.

What is it with Ireland and the perceived control insurance companies have over everyone?

loyatemu

mckenfer wrote: »

What is it with Ireland and the perceived control insurance companies have over everyone?

I dunno, the law?

House and car swapping for holidays is different as normally no money is changing hands. What you're suggesting is a commercial transaction so would fall outside the "Social, domestic & pleasure" clause that's in virtually all insurance policies. You're talking about risk - the risk in your scenario is entirely with the person renting their car to you.

Irish car hire rates are (I believe) among the cheapest in Europe - alternatively maybe talk to a local garage and see if they can fix you up with something short term from their second-hand stock.

Anyway, enjoy your holiday.

mickdw

mckenfer wrote: »

I don't know any insurance company that would decline adding someone 35+ with full no claims for an additional payment and if my insurance company declined this I wouldn't give them my business - they are there to offer a service covering the risk to an asset you own not dictate how you use it.

House and car swapping is a rapidly growing successful market and it works on the same concept - you add someone to your car and you are provided with consideration.

What is it with Ireland and the perceived control insurance companies have over everyone?

Are you familiar with insurance and risk in Ireland?
Regardless there is a very definite increased risk in allowing someone from another country at the other side of the world drive a car for a holiday period.
Sure they will add someone temporarily but if it's for reward, it's a whole other ball game.
Don't get me wrong, the insurance situation here is sh1tty, no more so that when we'd try to get a second car but that is the way it is here and for you to claim to know the ins and outs of irish insurance while living on the other side of the world is frankly laughable.
Hire a car. Take out full damage waiver. Enjoy your holiday and not have to worry about damaging someones car.

Eponymous

mckenfer wrote: »

Thanks for your message Eponymous.

I'm not sure I understand your fraudulent link. The proposal would be for full disclosure under an addition to a policy. Insurance companies are only concerned with risk return. This is why open drive is widely available. If fully comp the risk is fully covered and many companies offer NCB insurance also.

To your point about being a stranger I wasn't suggesting that I would turn up without having gone through some form of introduction or diligence to the satisfaction of the owner prior to taking the vehicle. I happen to have had no claims in the 25 years I've been driving and plan on keeping it that way regardless of who owns the car I'm driving.

While there's lots of ways to point at the difficulties in this the reality is it's a widespread arrangement that people come to, under a house swap for example, where the cars are also swapped. The fact that cash is used as consideration other than the alternative property is neither here nor there and it's far from fraudulent as you're suggesting.

The fantastic thing about this is that the ultimate decision is between two parties and the views that others have is irrelevant. I'm sure that hundred of euros is quite an attractive outcome for someone who's vehicle is otherwise not in use.

If you have any productive comments on how to help rather than how this won't work then I'd be happy to hear them.

Do or do not. There is no try.

I'd say with this post you've just typed yourself out of getting a car from anyone. The arrangement you are looking to come to is not a house-swap, so to suggest that this is the same is a nonsense. You yourself referred to it as a "nice little earner". By the way, if I was to enter into such an arrangement, it would be for a lot more than €100.

At no point did I suggest you were being fraudulent. I merely made the point that someone hiring their car to you for profit would invalidate the insurance. If the owner were to make a successful claim, it would only because they had to lie to the insurance company to do so, therefore it would be fraud.

It doesn't matter what your no-claims is like if some scrote in a souped up Honda Civic ploughs into the side of the car you're driving.

Take mickdw's advice and stop being a cheapskate.

mckenfer

Eponymous wrote: »

I'd say with this post you've just typed yourself out of getting a car from anyone. The arrangement you are looking to come to is not a house-swap, so to suggest that this is the same is a nonsense. You yourself referred to it as a "nice little earner". By the way, if I was to enter into such an arrangement, it would be for a lot more than €100.

At no point did I suggest you were being fraudulent. I merely made the point that someone hiring their car to you for profit would invalidate the insurance. If the owner were to make a successful claim, it would only because they had to lie to the insurance company to do so, therefore it would be fraud.

It doesn't matter what your no-claims is like if some scrote in a souped up Honda Civic ploughs into the side of the car you're driving.

Take mickdw's advice and stop being a cheapskate.

I think you are missing the point on the house swap. The law, and I'm very familiar with it, does not distinguish between one type of consideration or another.

Also by nice little earner I wasn't thinking €100 but more in the region of the thousands.

I posted this on a community page not with the intention of being a cheapskate but rather coming to mutually beneficial arrangement.

There are some people that look to find solutions rather than point out problems and I guess it will be someone like that who would pick up the phone to their broker or insurance company, get an acknowledgment that this is okay, and be comfortable they are insured while someone who they have been satisfied is responsible is borrowing their car.

joeguevara

^^^ thousands? Why don't you just buy a car?

mckenfer

mickdw wrote: »

Are you familiar with insurance and risk in Ireland?
Regardless there is a very definite increased risk in allowing someone from another country at the other side of the world drive a car for a holiday period.
Sure they will add someone temporarily but if it's for reward, it's a whole other ball game.
Don't get me wrong, the insurance situation here is sh1tty, no more so that when we'd try to get a second car but that is the way it is here and for you to claim to know the ins and outs of irish insurance while living on the other side of the world is frankly laughable.
Hire a car. Take out full damage waiver. Enjoy your holiday and not have to worry about damaging someones car.

That's ridiculous Mickdw. The risk is relative to the person who is driving the car normally.

Being Irish, having a full clean Irish licence, and 15 years of no claims with Irish insurance companies if say I have a rough idea of how it works.

I admit this is not going to appeal to the masses as the world has become an untrusting place but I'm confident there are people out there, such as those who would let a stranger live in their house/ use their car for payment or otherwise, who are willing to engage.

Eponymous

Or you could just take the obvious solution. Think about how suspect it looks. Someone signing up to the forum just to ask for a loan of a car...

Here, in the interest of being helpful: www.hertz.com I can't have you thinking I'm not a solutions kinda guy.

Annasopra

If you're going to pay thousands just use a rental company!

mickdw

mckenfer wrote: »

That's ridiculous Mickdw. The risk is relative to the person who is driving the car normally.

Being Irish, having a full clean Irish licence, and 15 years of no claims with Irish insurance companies if say I have a rough idea of how it works.

I admit this is not going to appeal to the masses as the world has become an untrusting place but I'm confident there are people out there, such as those who would let a stranger live in their house/ use their car for payment or otherwise, who are willing to engage.

It wasn't obvious that you had driving experience in Ireland. That really should help but insurers here tend to wipe no claims bonus if without a policy here for 2 years so they will have you back to square one in that regard.
Id be interested to know if this can be done at worthwhile cost with full disclosure but sadly I doubt it.

mckenfer

joeguevara wrote: »

^^^ thousands? Why don't you just buy a car?

It's an option but it takes time and there's added costs such as tax, insurance and it would probably need a service. I'm targeting a newer car that is more reliable with what I'm prepared to pay.

By hiring someone else's car they've already sunk those costs and are bearing depreciation so I'm offering to offset some of that.

mckenfer

Eponymous wrote: »

Or you could just take the obvious solution. Think about how suspect it looks. Someone signing up to the forum just to ask for a loan of a car...

Here, in the interest of being helpful: I can't have you thinking I'm not a solutions kinda guy.

Thanks Eponymous. You're quite the sceptic aren't you?!

If you keep an open mind you will see that just because something is not done or it is difficult it doesn't mean it is impossible.

Check this out...drivemycarrentals .com.au

Eponymous

Who said it was impossible? I certainly didn't.

And yes, I like to maintain a healthy scepticism. A positive mental attitude is one thing, but if it's not tempered with some scepticism then you're just a mug.

Good luck with your holiday and your quest for a car.

K.Flyer

@McKenfer
Just out of curiosity, why would you not just go to a straight forward car hire company.
The cars are usually quite new, usually slightly higher spec and no issues or complications with insurance.