Buckley retirement.

jacothelad

I see Tony has retired from pro rugby. He was / is a highly skilled player but whoever decided he should become a prop instead of a second row may have done a disservice to his career.

.ak

I always thought he'd make a great 8, especially in the top14.

Pity though, he got a lot of unfair flack as a player, but at league level he was almost always guaranteed a line break or two just because he'd destroy some fellas shoulder.

Podge_irl

.ak wrote: »

I always thought he'd make a great 8, especially in the top14.

Pity though, he got a lot of unfair flack as a player, but at league level he was almost always guaranteed a line break or two just because he'd destroy some fellas shoulder.

Not sure that's really true. The man couldn't lock a scrum, which was his primary task. Props aren't there for line breaks.

Mind you, the criticism of him was possibly slightly harsher than it may otherwise have been simply because he was clearly very talented but failed utterly to display it with any consistency.

Otacon

A phrase comes to mind...

If it doesn't look like a duck, walk like a duck or quack like a duck...

Tony Buckley was a talented rugby player, just not a talented prop.

Barely featured in his three seasons for Sale, only started 15 games in total. Not sure of whether he was injured a bit but I just don't think he was cut out to be a TH prop. Had a patron in Kidney which greatly prolonged/elevated his career in Ireland.

All the best to him in the future obviously.

ArmchairQB

Don't think professional sport of any kind suited his personallity, no matter what position he played the end result would have been the same. On his day and when he bothered he was brillant the NZ test a few years back comes to mind as his best game but also shows that if he was capable of that performance why didn't he do it more often. Best of luck to him but can't help thinking he is probably delighted it is all over.

jm08

I think his problem was that his health wasn't robust - he was always sick. Think the glandular fever bout finished him though (and he was injured for his last year in Sale).

Best of luck to him.

By the way, it was Gert Smal, not Kidney who was his biggest fan. Kidney tried to keep John Hayes playing for as long as possible.

Teferi

He's going to be playing AIL 2B next year with Kanturck according to his statement.

P_1

Another retirement Such is the circle of life I guess.

I'll always be a fan of his for this, hard to believe that was 7 years ago already

former legend

Jaziel Obedient Zenith wrote: »

Had a patron in Kidney which greatly prolonged/elevated his career in Ireland.

It's very rare I step in to defend Kidney, but he had literally no options at tight-head. Buckley got 9 nine starts for Ireland, mostly against weak teams, I don't think you could say he benefitted massively from Kidney's patronage.

bilston

former legend wrote: »

It's very rare I step in to defend Kidney, but he had literally no options at tight-head. Buckley got 9 nine starts for Ireland, mostly against weak teams, I don't think you could say he benefitted massively from Kidney's patronage.

Kidney probably wasn't helped by Simon Best's premature retirement either.

Amazing to think that a few years ago we had no props and no out half's coming through and now we have plenty of options (to vary standards/experience) in both positions.

Anyway happy retirement Mushy.

former legend

former legend wrote: »

It's very rare I step in to defend Kidney, but he had literally no options at tight-head. Buckley got 9 nine starts for Ireland, mostly against weak teams, I don't think you could say he benefitted massively from Kidney's patronage.

Aside from his few Ireland caps, it guaranteed him a squad place and regular gametime in Munster and afaik he was on one of the central contracts. So that's how he benefited really. Anyway no need to get into it, as above all the best to him in retirement. Shame for himself and Ireland that his size and power were never used to their fullest.

Big Nelly

Pity to see him retiring....I remember when he first moved over he came off the bench and the Sale scrum was destroyed after he came on....

The couch went nuts and quoted something about international's coming onto the pitch and not been able to cope...it seemed to be a direct quote aimed at Buckley, after that I never heard much about him......

justsomebloke

former legend wrote: »

It's very rare I step in to defend Kidney, but he had literally no options at tight-head. Buckley got 9 nine starts for Ireland, mostly against weak teams, I don't think you could say he benefitted massively from Kidney's patronage.

I'd have to agree with this. Yes Buckley mightn't of been as good as people wanted the player to be but he was still one of the best we had and he unfortunately gets alot of the criticism that should be levelled at the system that couldn't produce someone to replace him

Big Nelly

He will still go down as "the heaviest player at NZ World Cup"....

Fireball07

I always liked Mushy... okay, he wasn't much of a prop. But he had his good days, and in the loose, he could be absolutely brilliant. He was freakishly strong, and faster than a man of his size had any right to be.

Gave us some great moments. Oh well.

dub_skav

former legend wrote: »

It's very rare I step in to defend Kidney, but he had literally no options at tight-head. Buckley got 9 nine starts for Ireland, mostly against weak teams, I don't think you could say he benefitted massively from Kidney's patronage.

That would be true if Mike Ross was a young buck who first appeared for Ireland straight out of the academy, rather then an established pro in England, but I don't believe that is true.

letowski

dub_skav wrote: »

That would be true if Mike Ross was a young buck who first appeared for Ireland straight out of the academy, rather then an established pro in England, but I don't believe that is true.

He just didn't have the technique for the position. Really thought with the exception of say Hayes or Cencus Johnson, you rarely find tightheads at 6'5. I think ever since those back-to-back games against the Ospreys in the 2010/2011 HEC season is where people completely lost faith in his ability to perform at a high level.

I wish him a good retirement.

Neil3030

Something surely has to give, if you've a tighthead who is sizeably taller than the other two front row players.

If it's best for stability to have the torsos of front row at equal heights off the ground, it means that he would need to compensate by moving his feet away from optimal position for a tighthead, go in at a slight decline, or a mix of both. Stands to reason that at the top level, any minor imperfection resulting from compensatory technique tweaks will result in your TH getting minced.

I'm no scrum coach though, but it just seems logical to me that he was never going to make it as an international tighthead, and perhaps his raw strength, along with the allure of having a lumbering unit at tighthead, clouded some collective judgements about where he should play.

Buer

letowski wrote: »

I think ever since those back-to-back games against the Ospreys in the 2010/2011 HEC season is where people completely lost faith in his ability to perform at a high level.

I don't think he ever gave people reason to think he could compete to a high level. The game against NZ where people raved about him was still a match where he was destroyed in the scrums. But we expected to lose anyway and he was everywhere in the loose so people seemed to ignore that.

Seemed like a frightfully nice bloke but not ever really cut out for the demands of being a professional rugby player, especially for a position such as tighthead where you really need to be a mean hombre.

CatFromHue

Granted the game was awhile ago now but I didn't think we were destroyed in the scrums that day against NZ.

I thought we'd parity.

Buer

Nah, you're right. Destroyed was hyperbole. I do think we were under serious pressure though at times in that game.

letowski

Having said that I remember a game against Edinburgh in Muzzer when he scrummaged against a new 20 year old loose head making his first cap and being in all sorts of trouble. I think it was a mixture of him being poorly coached and and just not being suited to the position. He was an 8 in Newbridge, afaik.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Nah, you're right. Destroyed was hyperbole. I do think we were under serious pressure though at times in that game.

If it's the game I think you're talking about there were only 3 scrums in the entire 80 minutes. So there weren't really enough for us to be really exposed.

blackdog1

dub_skav wrote: »

That would be true if Mike Ross was a young buck who first appeared for Ireland straight out of the academy, rather then an established pro in England, but I don't believe that is true.

Even worse was the fact ross was playing A games with buckley at the same time and he picked Buckley. He had options he just couldn't see them.

RoutineBites

Any other Connacht fan read the thread title and momentarily panic that we were losing both Wilkinson AND (Denis) Buckley to retirement in the space of one season? :pac:

RedemptionZ

A lot of whataboutery in this thread. Buckley's asset was always his size. If he was to be a 2nd row he would've had to lose at least 15kgs maybe even 20 kgs, and then he'd be nothing more than a little bit above average sized 2nd rower with mediocre skills. Same goes for backrow, not a chance he'd have the fitness or mobility for international or provincial level at 138kgs.

He couldn't scrummage and didn't offer that much in either offence or defence. Might sound like a complete twat here but rather than call it a pity, I'd actually say he should be happy with how far he got all things considered. Nothing more than a very big guy. IMO.

With all that said, the guy got some unnecessary criticism from fans and pundits when at the end of the day, the coaches that kept picking him despite the performances were the real ones to blame. Hopefully enjoys the retirement.

GavMan

RedemptionZ wrote: »

A lot of whataboutery in this thread. Buckley's asset was always his size. If he was to be a 2nd row he would've had to lose at least 15kgs maybe even 20 kgs, and then he'd be nothing more than a little bit above average sized 2nd rower with mediocre skills. Same goes for backrow, not a chance he'd have the fitness or mobility for international or provincial level at 138kgs.

He couldn't scrummage and didn't offer that much in either offence or defence. Might sound like a complete twat here but rather than call it a pity, I'd actually say he should be happy with how far he got all things considered. Nothing more than a very big guy. IMO.

With all that said, the guy got some unnecessary criticism from fans and pundits when at the end of the day, the coaches that kept picking him despite the performances were the real ones to blame. Hopefully enjoys the retirement.

This post....

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beertons

letowski wrote: »

He was an 8 in Newbridge, afaik.

He was indeed.

siltirocker

Never replicated his Connacht form at Munster, probably down to his injuries in his first few years at Munster.

(I believe Connacht didn't offer him a new contract, as they thought his injury was too severe to ever really return to prime. . . which I suppose was true.)

Lost him scrummaging ability when he came back. Great around the park though.

Anyway best of luck in future.

sydneybound

On twitter he says he's going back to being a plumber again.. no coaching jobs out there for him?

letowski

sydneybound wrote: »

On twitter he says he's going back to being a plumber again.. no coaching jobs out there for him?

Munster have no scrum coach !!

GavMan

letowski wrote: »

Munster have no scrum coach !!

They still would have one with TB in the role

grohlisagod

Demented Mole made a good point about Buckley saying that if he played in France he would probably have played second row as a tighthead lock.

French sides tend to use the back-row as the jumpers in the line-out (Bonnaire, Harinordoquy) while guys like Nallet & Millo-Chulski are primarily lifters. Would have been interesting to see how he'd have gotten on.

Rightwing

Buckley was great in the loose, always liked him after he destroyed a few of the leinster lads.

The Lost Sheep

sydneybound wrote: »

On twitter he says he's going back to being a plumber again.. no coaching jobs out there for him?

As mentioned already he's still going to be playing. He'll be with Kanturk who've just been promoted to 2B of AIL.
Will be interesting to see him at that level..

sydneybound

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

As mentioned already he's still going to be playing. He'll be with Kanturk who've just been promoted to 2B of AIL.
Will be interesting to see him at that level..

Surely Kanturk wouldn't be paying him a full time wage one similar to Sale's?

check_six

I always liked the image inspired by Buckley giving John Hayes lifts to training every day. In my mind's eye that car was definitely a Micra, or an MX-5.

Good luck, Mushy!