Romany

HarrisonLennon

Having recently just moved to Dublin 1. I see Romany everywhere. That's not the problem, it's just I now see what the general public don't see. I see where they live, and the set up of their shame operations. They get dropped off in a flash car. Put on there shalls and off they go. Dotted along route from O Connell street as far as Camden street. The same group. Why do people give them money. Just curious?

The Hill Billy

I used to regularly see Irish beggars being dropped off at various points along Baggot Street from nice motors. It is not an exclusively Roma thing.

People probably give them money because they are gullible & feel sorry for them.

power pants

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I used to regularly see Irish beggars being dropped off at various points along Baggot Street from nice motors. It is not an exclusively Roma thing.

People probably give them money because they are gullible & feel sorry for them.

never heard of this before know a few tappers from growing up with them back in the day etc and none of them work for a company or business other than for their own fix or food. maybe ive yet to meet those ones

HarrisonLennon

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I used to regularly see Irish beggars being dropped off at various points along Baggot Street from nice motors. It is not an exclusively Roma thing.

People probably give them money because they are gullible & feel sorry for them.

Really? That's odd. Never heard of that level of organisation from Irish beggars. Mostly junkies or genuine homeless I've found. The only ones in I know that do it "pro" is pressure begging (woman with a kid in a buggy)

risteard7

It's s huge problem in Dublin and it is predominately Roma but anytime it's mentioned your shot down or called a racist.
But sure let's blame are own people and let the immigrants run riot. It's the nice PC thing to do.

HarrisonLennon

risteard7 wrote: »

It's s huge problem in Dublin and it is predominately Roma but anytime it's mentioned your shot down or called a racist.
But sure let's blame are own people and let the immigrants run riot. It's the nice PC thing to do.

I've often pondered the idea of stopping and saying why should I give you money. And I know you conning people. But I'd probably get my eyes scratched out. They live off my road and give the local centra an awful time. Constant theft. Abusing staff. Twice my girlfriend has had her shoulder clipped by the girls walking past while I'm with her. And I'm no wimp. I'd have a stereotypical "tough" look but they're just lawless. Not all Romany are cheats. But every single one on our streets is.

strandroad

risteard7 wrote: »

It's s huge problem in Dublin and it is predominately Roma but anytime it's mentioned your shot down or called a racist.

Eh let's not exaggerate. Whenever I'm hassled for change or accosted at an ATM more often than not it's a pasty indigenous addict. Their shoes are often better brand than mine BTW. Roma do play a part but they hardly invented it.
Don't give them money and stop anyone who does is the best way to deal with that.

HarrisonLennon

mhge wrote: »

Whenever I'm hassled for change or accosted at an ATM more often than not it's a pasty indigenous addict. Their shoes are often better brand than mine BTW..

Plus one on the shoes. Add that too to their smart phones.

gugleguy

Putting thread on locked/closed watch

The Hill Billy

Back from the late 90s to mid-00s there were a few lads who had begging spots from Merrion Row down to Upper Baggot St. They were dropped off in time for the morning rush hour & collected after evening rush hour.

I've not worked in the area since so have no idea what happened to them but it went on for the period I worked around there.

Academic

[QUOTE=[...] Why do people give them money. Just curious?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps things have changed, but they used to concentrate on those areas most frequently by tourists, who of course are the people least likely to be familiar with the scam.

Cheers,

Ac

sinead81

I work on South William Street and it is notorious for begging. They revel in the summer season with all the al fresco dining. The only thing is, I am working here for 6 years and it is the same beggars all the time, and they are all irish. They have their spots, I guess their workplace. And some of them have buggies (with no kids in them), and scream at you 'I need your help'. It is so intimidating to tourists, I can spot them a mile away because scarily I recognise them from seeing them all every day. 90% are blatant junkies, you can just tell. There is one girl who begs every day up and down the street and she lives in Thomas Street. I often see her getting her takeaway on Thomas street, she recognizes me and never asks me for money but will go straight to the next person beside me. They have now started going into Clarendon st church to harass the church goers as THEY SIT DOWN saying their prayers! I have run a few of them out of the church when I have been in there, they intimidate the elderly people as they pray. Its disgusting....It is getting out of control....

Larianne

A few years ago the Sunday Indo (I think) did a piece on a famous older gentleman beggar, who used to beg around Grafton Street IIRC.
They followed him home one evening.
Turned out he lived in a nice gaff in Rathmines!!
(Please someone confirm this and that I am not imagining it!! :pac:)

sinead81

Ok I will go back a few years..... but my mam went to school in inner city Dublin, 40 years ago, but a lot of her pals would beg on o'connell street for some pocket money. It was the mindset of certain families to do this!! One of the women who begs on South William Street every day, lives in a house in Tallaght. I often see her getting off the bus because I drive by where she lives and nearly crashed the car because like I said earlier, I recognized her. I don't give money to a single one of them, donate each month to simon community or st vincent de paul.

I gave a homeless old man a cup of coffee one cold dec morning about 15 years ago on grafton st, and he threw it on the path in front of me and said he wanted money instead.

Nice

Sunnyisland

Larianne wrote: »

A few years ago the Sunday Indo (I think) did a piece on a famous older gentleman beggar, who used to beg around Grafton Street IIRC.
They followed him home one evening.
Turned out he lived in a nice gaff in Rathmines!!
(Please someone confirm this and that I am not imagining it!! :pac:)

Sunday world

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/daily-world/best-of-the-web/mr-willie-and-the-fake-begger

MayoSalmon

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I used to regularly see Irish beggars being dropped off at various points along Baggot Street from nice motors. It is not an exclusively Roma thing.

People probably give them money because they are gullible & feel sorry for them.

:rolleyes::rolleyes: They travel all across Europe doing this...it is almost exclusively a Romany thing

HomelessMidge

sinead81 wrote: »

There is one girl who begs every day up and down the street and she lives in Thomas Street.

Is that the really small scraggy looking one? She lives in the flats beside a friend of mine. Burned the whole flat down once. Another time she had just moved in and knocked into my friend and asked for a lend of 20 quid for "shopping".

The Hill Billy

MayoSalmon wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes: They travel all across Europe doing this...it is almost exclusively a Romany thing

That's bull. Professional begging is prevalent in all countries. It is not 'almost exclusively a Romany' thing. Maybe you don't see the non-Roma beggars doing it because they are not so obvious.

--LOS--

It's a big problem in Dublin all right, there's a lot living around Phibsboro, the state they have the houses in. Some of them have hassled me to the extent of grabbing my hand/trying to hold my hand/kiss my hand ¬_¬ That is just way too far!

MayoSalmon

The Hill Billy wrote: »

That's bull. Professional begging is prevalent in all countries. It is not 'almost exclusively a Romany' thing. Maybe you don't see the non-Roma beggars doing it because they are not so obvious.

Well in every city in Europe I have been to Paris, Barcelona, Rome to name a few it is exclusively a Romany thing.

They tend to target Asian tourists probably because most of them are too polite to tell them to fcuk off.

digzy

The Hill Billy wrote: »

That's bull. Professional begging is prevalent in all countries. It is not 'almost exclusively a Romany' thing. Maybe you don't see the non-Roma beggars doing it because they are not so obvious.

Look any remarks here are anecdotal. But to be fair there is a greater proportion of them begging than any other ethnic group. I've never seen a black guy begging. That's not to say they don't but I've never seen one. As a proportion of our population beggars should be at least 95% Caucasian. However I'd estimate that over half the beggars n Dublin are Roma. I've been in cities all over Europe and they've a colony of beggars in each one from what I see.

MayoSalmon

--LOS-- wrote: »

It's a big problem in Dublin all right, there's a lot living around Phibsboro, the state they have the houses in. Some of them have hassled me to the extent of grabbing my hand/trying to hold my hand/kiss my hand ¬_¬ That is just way too far!

There's a house block just down from the new Mater Hospital entrance, and looking at it you wouldn't think cockroaches would survive in the mess they have made of it

The Hill Billy

digzy wrote: »

Look any remarks here are anecdotal...

Exactly, & as my own anecdotal evidence was challenged I felt obliged to rebut the generalisation. I feel that people are happy to stick it to the Roma as they are an easy target even though there are plenty of other less-obvious professional beggars plying their trade.

But hey, sure what would I know.

John_Rambo

I haven't had any hassle with them. There's a few that have lunch in the Epicurean Food hall, their kids play with mine. Pleasant enough, smiley etc... But they seem to have a bad name for organised begging and aggressive begging, however, I'd agree with Hilly Billy, no worse than our own!

Check out this thread from the Galway forum in the heady days of the Celtic Tiger, very interesting to see the difference in attitudes from two cities with a gap of seven years.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055076053

Suckfisher

--LOS-- wrote: »

It's a big problem in Dublin all right, there's a lot living around Phibsboro, the state they have the houses in. Some of them have hassled me to the extent of grabbing my hand/trying to hold my hand/kiss my hand ¬_¬ That is just way too far!

Ya they have what loo like 19th century flats close to Dorset street junction just down from the Mater.
Place is filthy rubbish strewn everywhere.
It there culture horrible annoyance every day please please shakes empty cup at ya f off.

sinead81

HomelessMidge wrote: »

Is that the really small scraggy looking one? She lives in the flats beside a friend of mine. Burned the whole flat down once. Another time she had just moved in and knocked into my friend and asked for a lend of 20 quid for "shopping".

YES THAT IS HER!!!! My grandfather passed away recently and we had his funeral at Johns lane church and she stood outside harassing people looking for money and I ran her from the church. A few hours later I brought my little cousins for a pizza across the road on Thomas St and there she is ordering a FEAST! Probably on the money she earned....

schemingbohemia

There are two Travller sisters who have been begging outside/near Marks & Spencer grafton street and clarendon street and also Dawson St for years. They always had the same line - "i'm very hungary (sic), can you spare a few quid" - never gave them anything anyway but saw them shopping in M&S buying all sorts of expensive stuff whilst I was only getting anything with a yellow discounted sticker on it!
We have our own indigenous professional beggars here too, it's not just Roma.

ongarboy

I've a friend who always give money to beggars and I've asked why he does it and says it's that he feels sorry for them, especially when the weather is colder. I've told him he is only encouraging them to keep begging by doing so. If not one person ever gave money to a beggar, they'd have no choice then to find other (hopefully legitimate) means to survive. This seemed to go over my well meaning friend's head.

neamhspleachi

Three home grown beggars arrive every night at 7, in a taxi, once there's a performance on in the National Concert Hall

They've been coming for years, screaming matches & fighting occurs if non-national beggars try to move in on their turf

Lux23

The ones that beg in Stoneybatter are generally Irish, I was delighted to see the Centra security guards running them off recently. They normally just let them hang around hassling everyone who goes into the shop. I used to see more Romas when I lived over on Mountjoy Street, maybe the rise in Irish drunks/drug addicts has cut into their business.

I don't give a penny to any of them though.

teddyhead

ongarboy wrote: »

I've a friend who always give money to beggars and I've asked why he does it and says it's that he feels sorry for them, especially when the weather is colder. I've told him he is only encouraging them to keep begging by doing so. If not one person ever gave money to a beggar, they'd have no choice then to find other (hopefully legitimate) means to survive. This seemed to go over my well meaning friend's head.

Maybe he just thinks you are unreasonable,unrealistic and that your philosophy is a bit shallow or extreme. His efforts to enlighten you, go right over your reactionary little head.

sinead81

schemingbohemia wrote: »

There are two Travller sisters who have been begging outside/near Marks & Spencer grafton street and clarendon street and also Dawson St for years. They always had the same line - "i'm very hungary (sic), can you spare a few quid" - never gave them anything anyway but saw them shopping in M&S buying all sorts of expensive stuff whilst I was only getting anything with a yellow discounted sticker on it!
We have our own indigenous professional beggars here too, it's not just Roma.

YES!!!! They are often on Wicklow street too. There is a new one on South William St/Wicklow St that whispers and people often have to go very close to her to hear what she is saying and she is looking for money. And by then you almost feel obliged to give a euro or 2. I had lunch on Coppinger row yesterday, outside, and we were harassed by a junkie with a can in his hand begging for money. We had 4 euro on our table and he wouldnt give up until I gave a big firm NO to him. He then walked down through the tables and took leftover food off the tables that hadnt been cleared yet. So intimidating. Strange that there is NEVER a roma gypsy begging around this area of South William St, Exchequer St, Wicklow St etc. It is all down to territory!

dubbie82

So what is the solution to the problem?
Tarring the whole group with one brush doesn't work. I know plenty of decent folk and they get abuse because of the actions of others.
I try to imagine what I would do if I was born into a roma family forced to beg. How can you break the circle, you grow up poor, probably with limited literacy skills and education, you are put on the street to beg from very early age. Then you are smuggled into a foreign country. If you are a girl you don't count for nothing anyway. You are out on the streets degrading yourself and the money you get you have to hand over to others.

A romanian friend of mine told me that the poor families sell themselves to traffickers and they get smuggled into other countries. They are forced to beg until they paid off the debt which can take them years, some of the young girls end up on brothels and if the authorites catch them they can't say who got them across the border because they are affraid that the rest of the family is killed in retaliation.

Other countries have the problem for years and still haven't found a solution and I don't think there is a straight answer.

sinead81

For the Roma people, I think part of the solution would be tighter immigration rules etc. For the Irish, I just don't know.....

I know one guy who was in a car accident, lost his legs and has no family to help him and he is living in a hostel and begs on the top of South William Street. He was in the hospital at the same time as my grandad so I recognised him and I asked him how he go to be sitting here begging and he said the HSE wouldn't provide him a place in the rehab clinic. So somewhere along the lines.... there is a broken link in this country! But he is just one guy, and has only started begging in the past few months, he had a full time job before his accident. What about the really bad junkies who are intimidating people as they walk up the streets minding their own business. I dont know, is there a solution? I would love to see something done about it. Moving them from the ATM's was the first step