Will I buy a Leaf?

KrustyBurger

I've checked out the new Leaf and found it surprisingly spacious. After reading a lot of threads on here I think a 2nd hand Leaf from NI or the UK might be a better option.

My daily commute is 34 miles, well within the range of the Leaf.

The Leaf will be sufficient for 99% of my driving. On my journeys down the country I think I'd just rent an ice car for the week-end (say every 6 weeks).

My rough calculations are:

Value of current car: probably get 8k.
2nd hand Leaf: £12k = €15k
Loan = 7K

My fuel bill is a min of €240/month on diesel.
The savings on fuel alone would repay the car loan over 3 years or so and after that I'm actually saving money! I will be keeping the car for a good number of years all going to plan. I believe that they're very reliable.

If I do decide to go down this route it'll be August before I can sell my car.

Any thoughts?

endacl

Sounds like a plan.

I'd be interested to hear how it works out if you go ahead.

kdouglas

Sounds like a perfect scenario to drive an EV. I had a similar situation where my ICE car was costing about €300 a month just in fuel costs, I didn't have any outstanding finance on it, but the purchase price of a Leaf is basically offset by the fuel savings. Then there's the long term maintenance savings which I'm very much looking forward to

Even on longer journeys, depending on how far you have to go and if it's relatively infrequent, you'll likely find yourself wanting to drive the Leaf rather than hire a car.

I imported mine from the UK too, feel free to PM me if you have any questions about that particular process.

KrustyBurger

@kdouglas I read your document outlining the process here. Great read and thanks for sharing.

colm_mcm

Just on the figures you've given, is your current car extremely hard on diesel?

For example, I know my petrol car will do +/- 1500 miles for €240

gabsdot40

We bought our Leaf last year. The savings in petrol make a big dent in the loan repayment and tax is only €120pa. We love it. We bought ours in the UK.
We haven't done any long trips yet but are planning a few for the summer and there is no need to hire a car if you plan well and charge up on route.
Go for it. We absolutely love our Leaf.

I'd imagine OP you'll have no trouble finding someone to loan your Leaf to for a few weeks you can borrow their ICE.

But good luck anyway.

Your fuel spend does seem rather high for 34 miles per day.

Gumbo

I am so close to buying a leaf at the moment. Just afraid to pull the trigger!!!!!

KrustyBurger

Thanks for all the replies. Re my fuel and mileage I didn't add in all the short journeys after work. My car is a 2.2.

It definitely looks like its doable just have to sell my car in aug.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

kceire wrote: »

I am so close to buying a leaf at the moment. Just afraid to pull the trigger!!!!!

Don't you currently have a e60 535d?
That's going to be some change :eek:

Gumbo

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Don't you currently have a e60 535d?
That's going to be some change :eek:

Use the Renault Fluence ZE in work every day.
Sold the 535d, bought a 2008 520d in Alpine White for the GF and just sold our E90 318d that we have owned from new.

Now im in a pickle of buying EV or buying something cheap for a few months as theres nothing on the market in my budget that i want at the moment!

BMJD

kceire wrote: »

I am so close to buying a leaf at the moment. Just afraid to pull the trigger!!!!!

Soichiro Honda is turning in his grave :pac:

colm_mcm

BMJD wrote: »

Soichiro Honda is turning in his grave :pac:

Probably at way more RPM than his piers as well.

Scottie99

kceire wrote: »

Use the Renault Fluence ZE in work every day.
Sold the 535d, bought a 2008 520d in Alpine White for the GF and just sold our E90 318d that we have owned from new.

Now im in a pickle of buying EV or buying something cheap for a few months as theres nothing on the market in my budget that i want at the moment!

Go on...you know you want to..

Gumbo

Scottie99 wrote: »

Go on...you know you want to..

Better pics Scott! We need proper pics

Larbre34

142 MH? Somebody didnt hang about!

EVs are all fine and well, but Id be hanging about until some other poor sod goes through the full life cycle of one, i.e. dealing with emergency long trips, drivetrain lifespan, unforeseen breakages of expensive bits you never heard of before, also having to drive what is reported to be the least engaging car in history.

They are probably fine if you have an old roadster for the weekend to keep the pleasure of driving, but my 2.0 diesel still does almost 3,000 kms for €240 and for all round practicality I cant see that bettered yet.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

142 MH? Somebody didnt hang about!

EVs are all fine and well, but Id be hanging about until some other poor sod goes through the full life cycle of one, i.e. dealing with emergency long trips, drivetrain lifespan, unforeseen breakages of expensive bits you never heard of before, also having to drive what is reported to be the least engaging car in history.

They are probably fine if you have an old roadster for the weekend to keep the pleasure of driving, but my 2.0 diesel still does almost 3,000 kms for €240 and for all round practicality I cant see that bettered yet.

Electrics are proving to be very reliable so far, Leaf I had rare issues of charge control failures.

Other than battery failures in hot parts of the US there have been no reports of failures anywhere.

You're 2.0 diesel can get you 3,000 kms for €240 ? a Leaf can do that for about 38 Euro's based on an EPA rating of 29Kwh/100 miles for the Mk 1.5 and a night tariff of 9C/Kwh. Excluding free public charging.

The Leaf along with fast charging can meet most peoples needs, granted it's not for everyone but it could do 120-130 miles with 1 fast charge and a lot of people seem to get along fine with that. For the rarer longer trip people that own a leaf seem to be fine with 2 fast charges on route because they don't need to do it every day. Very cold weather will impact that somewhat.

A lot of homes have 2 cars, or can borrow an ice if they wish, I don't think anyone is going to have a problem loaning their Leaf to someone for a few days. This way while the Leaf can't do 100% of all your driving it will do 98% of it which will cost the most.

Leaf II in 2017 will have more range, possible double the battery size.

The affordable Tesla arriving sometime in 2017 also, probably 2018 on this Island. Elon promises a 200 mile range which I've no doubt he will achieve.

As to the affordable, well rumours suggest it will be aimed at BMW 3 series, Audi A4 drivers.

Though of course, I've no doubt people will still say " my diesel can go 500 miles on a tank"

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

Electrics are proving to be very reliable so far, Leaf I had rare issues of charge control failures.

Other than battery failures in hot parts of the US there have been no reports of failures anywhere.

You're 2.0 diesel can get you 3,000 kms for €240 ? a Leaf can do that for about 38 Euro's based on an EPA rating of 29Kwh/100 miles for the Mk 1.5 and a night tariff of 9C/Kwh. Excluding free public charging.

The Leaf along with fast charging can meet most peoples needs, granted it's not for everyone but it could do 120-130 miles with 1 fast charge and a lot of people seem to get along fine with that. For the rarer longer trip people that own a leaf seem to be fine with 2 fast charges on route because they don't need to do it every day. Very cold weather will impact that somewhat.

A lot of homes have 2 cars, or can borrow an ice if they wish, I don't think anyone is going to have a problem loaning their Leaf to someone for a few days. This way while the Leaf can't do 100% of all your driving it will do 98% of it which will cost the most.

Leaf II in 2017 will have more range, possible double the battery size.

The affordable Tesla arriving sometime in 2017 also, probably 2018 on this Island. Elon promises a 200 mile range which I've no doubt he will achieve.

As to the affordable, well rumours suggest it will be aimed at BMW 3 series, Audi A4 drivers.

Though of course, I've no doubt people will still say " my diesel can go 500 miles on a tank"

As I always say, people have a mental block with EV's due to the range.
People are used to 3-500 miles per tank. And, let's face it, running out of electricity is a lot worse than running out of petrol. Petrol stations are everywhere and EV chargepoints arent. Plus the AA man can't bring a jerry can of EV power!! :P

Your point that EV's do the 98% a lot cheaper than an ICE car is totally correct. I don't have range anxiety. Three of my cars now can sometimes do less than 300 miles on a tank anyway so I'm used to it :P .I just don't see the point of spending 14k+ on something that is guinea pig/early adaptor territory. Wait until we get 200 mile ranges and a better charging network then you will see many more changing to the EV way of life. Once you change I imagine you wont go back as it seems so much cheaper!

Another comment I always make on these EV threads, if something saves me money without inconvieniencing me then I'm all for it! I'd have a leaf in the morning for the work commute if I could get one for about 5k.


EDITED TO ADD: of course, my diesel can go 500 miles on a tank :P

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

As I always say, people have a mental block with EV's due to the range.
People are used to 3-500 miles per tank. And, let's face it, running out of electricity is a lot worse than running out of petrol. Petrol stations are everywhere and EV chargepoints arent. Plus the AA man can't bring a jerry can of EV power!! :P

Your point that EV's do the 98% a lot cheaper than an ICE car is totally correct. I don't have range anxiety. Three of my cars now can sometimes do less than 300 miles on a tank anyway so I'm used to it :P .I just don't see the point of spending 14k+ on something that is guinea pig/early adaptor territory. Wait until we get 200 mile ranges and a better charging network then you will see many more changing to the EV way of life. Once you change I imagine you wont go back as it seems so much cheaper!

Another comment I always make on these EV threads, if something saves me money without inconvieniencing me then I'm all for it! I'd have a leaf in the morning for the work commute if I could get one for about 5k.


EDITED TO ADD: of course, my diesel can go 500 miles on a tank :P

I never said electrics are suited for everyone, but they are suited for most people more than they think. There are plenty of 2 car households, and plenty of ice's that can be loaned for that 300 mile trip.

If you're a sales rep a Leaf won't work, if your Boss buys you an 85 Kwh Model S then you're laughing !

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Deleted User wrote: »

I never said electrics are suited for everyone, but they are suited for most people more than they think. There are plenty of 2 car households, and plenty of ice's that can be loaned for that 300 mile trip.

If you're a sales rep a Leaf won't work, if your Boss buys you an 85 Kwh Model S then you're laughing !

I know, I was agreeing with you sure!

kdouglas

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Plus the AA man can't bring a jerry can of EV power!! :P

They have a system on trial in the UK that is basically a 10kwh battery pack that you can get a charge off of. It's made by an Irish company too. So essentially yes the AA man _can_ bring a Jerry can of power

Sesshoumaru

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

And, let's face it, running out of electricity is a lot worse than running out of petrol. Petrol stations are everywhere and EV chargepoints arent. Plus the AA man can't bring a jerry can of EV power!! :P

Well actually he can, as the AA have started investing in portable chargers in their vans that can give you enough juice to get to the next charger.

http://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/news/aa-gears-up-for-electric-car-breakdowns.html

Some more information here.

http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-news-and-events/electric-car-press-releases/jmt-power-develops-worlds-first-portable-charging-station-for-ecars.jsp

EVCharge 4kW is a stand-alone portable Electric Vehicle charger which charges an electric car independent of the electricity supply network. This means that an electric car can be powered up by the EVCharge with 20km of range in half an hour to enable the driver to get to the nearest public charge point or to the motorist's own home charge point. It is ideal in an emergency situation to bring energy to the road side or in any location where there is no grid connection and it is also very advantageous that it can be brought to the car rather than being towed away by a recovery truck to a nearby charging station.

AA Ireland will also be taking delivery of an EVCharge and will begin their pilot of the product in December 2011. "For electric vehicle drivers the EV Charge essentially gives drivers peace of mind that extra power is available if they need it. Like any car that runs out of fuel, the AA will still be there to provide our customers with a limited amount to help them safely reach a location where they can recharge" says Conor Faughnan of AA Ireland.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

learn something new everyday!
They really should publicize that more. It would do a lot for the most common problem that EV's face in the common opinion - range anxiety.

dutopia

Do you really want a car called a 'leaf'? Be a man and buy a Tesla Model S instead.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

dutopia wrote: »

Do you really want a car called a 'leaf'? Be a man and buy a Tesla Model S instead.

Unsure if serious or sarcastic?

If serious, one EV is as bad as the other. If I want a fast car that sounds good I'll buy an ICE v8 or something

dutopia

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Unsure if serious or sarcastic?

If serious, one EV is as bad as the other. If I want a fast car that sounds good I'll buy an ICE v8 or something

I'm being serious about the Model S being awesome. But, I'm not being realistic as I don't think they're available to buy here and they're really expensive. It is one of the most promising EV to date though, IMO.

the culture of deference

just carry a little generator with you.

reboot

dutopia wrote: »

Do you really want a car called a 'leaf'? Be a man and buy a Tesla Model S instead.

Weighs 2 Tons!

secman

A friend of mine has just bought one, 3 week delivery date, also getting a free charger install for the house. He reckons with the free roadside charge, he will slash his running costs. It has a 200 km range for summer and about 150 km for winter. His daily round trip is about 20 km. They are keeping an old second car for trips up to the north, his home town

reboot

reboot wrote: »

Weighs 2 Tons!

0-100 kph 4.5 seconds, for the Model S Sport. Very low centre of gravity.

secman

secman wrote: »

A friend of mine has just bought one, 3 week delivery date, also getting a free charger install for the house. He reckons with the free roadside charge, he will slash his running costs. It has a 200 km range for summer and about 150 km for winter. His daily round trip is about 20 km. They are keeping an old second car for trips up to the north, his home town

You're friend is going to be disappointed if he thinks he'll get 200 kms in a Leaf.

More like 100 kms very cold, -110 kms.

And 110-120 kms summer.

KrustyBurger

OP here.

Thanks for all the replies. I've my mind made up. Come Aug I'm selling my car and going to the UK for a Leaf. As I mentioned in the opening post it's perfect for 99% of my driving. The other 1% I'll worry about later. The loan repayments will be offset by the fuel savings initially.

The Tesla is way out my range (pun intended). And there's no way I'm renting a battery. Plus the Leaf has a strong reliability record at this stage.

Regards comments about boring driving etc I'm one of those people who just don't care!

We also have a (very) small ice car but it'll do for emergencies etc.

Hopefully I'll get what I'm thinking for my car in Aug and I'll be back on to update you all on my progress.

KrustyBurger

KrustyBurger wrote: »

I've my mind made up. Come Aug I'm selling my car and going to the UK for a Leaf.

Best of luck, though keep watching carzone/donedeal, some U.K imports turn up there at decent prices,

You might get an Irish one for 15-16K which may have more miles but could be far less hassle than going to the UK and driving it back, dealing with money transfer etc, etc.

Don;t forget you'll have to buy a home charging station or (EVSE) you might get one in the U.K or check out leaftalk.co.uk, they might be able to locate one for you at a reasonable cost.

Find out what cable you need and run it from the consumer unit to where you want the evse installed, mount the unit and the spark will only have to connect it either end.

KrustyBurger wrote: »

And there's no way I'm renting a battery. Plus the Leaf has a strong reliability record at this stage.

There is no disadvantage to renting the battery, if you do low enough miles it actually works out cheaper than buying the car with the battery over 3 years.

If you intend to do a lot of fast charging then renting the battery is a good idea.

Why people in Ireland are anti renting/leasing is beyond me.

Either way it works out in or around the same whether you lease the battery or not they're getting your money.

KrustyBurger

@Mad-Lad

Actually I meant to ask you, you mention Leaf v1, 1.5 etc. How can I tell the difference?

KrustyBurger

KrustyBurger wrote: »

@Mad-Lad

Actually I meant to ask you, you mention Leaf v1, 1.5 etc. How can I tell the difference?

Very easy, Leaf 1.5 has the darker dash.



Leaf I Dash



Leaf I under the bonnet.



Leaf 1.5 under the bonnet.



Leaf I Boot.



Leaf 1.5 Boot ( notice the absence of charger behind the back seats )

This model has the Bose Sub, on top spec model. not available on MK I because the charger was in the way !

dutopia

Best of luck with the car OP.

the culture of deference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66SnNT5IKOk

Tesla battery change