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State of Irish Golf Membership

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    ssbob wrote: »
    I guess what I am trying to get at here is that Membership in golf clubs is under pressure. My own personal solution is a golf club manager within the club. Yes it will cost money, yes you won't know for 12 months whether or not this man/woman is worth the investment but for some clubs to survive then they are going to need to be radical.

    @golfwallah I agree a lot of clubs have such a poor presence online and are losing out. Clubs like The Heritage then are really online present which for them is a must as they need green fee's because they are so remote for membership.

    Hiring a manager may be the solution for some clubs. But it won't guarantee success.

    To have a reasonable chance of success in recruiting / retaining members requires customer focus. Whoever looks after the marketing end, needs to ascertain what potential and existing customers want, develop packages to meet that need and then let the market know about their offerings.

    Some clubs simply will not take on a manager - it would be nigh on impossible to get agreement on doing this at an AGM.

    People want the problem solved, but haven't been presented with the facts / issues and options for solutions in a very clear way that they can understand and make informed decisions on the way forward.

    If this was done by committees (i.e. giving members the opportunity to make informed choices), there would be far fewer problems with getting and retaining members.

    IF only!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    Here's a link to a survey conducted by the English Golfing Union, showing that a more flexible approach to membership pricing does indeed work in the real world:Link.

    If the CGI implement their campaign for points membership anyway effectively, it's almost inevitable, IMO, that we will begin to see a lot more clubs adopting the points membership approach from next year.

    But like all things in life, there will be leaders / early adaptors and followers but I reckon most clubs are waiting to see what their nearest competitors are doing.

    Interesting times ahead!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 758 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    ssbob wrote: »

    I guess what I am trying to get at here is that Membership in golf clubs is under pressure. My own personal solution is a golf club manager within the club. Yes it will cost money, yes you won't know for 12 months whether or not this man/woman is worth the investment but for some clubs to survive then they are going to need to be radical.

    Managers are part of the problem in many clubs, protecting their overpriced salaries over the interests of the clubs. Engineering who is on committees and keeping any discussion about their poor role quiet.

    Cutting any funding to the course is madness and that is always the first place cut. Close the clubhouse before you cut the course.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭mike12


    I think when you compare the cost of green fees v's membership i can see why there are so many people opting out. If you just want to play golf them for most memberships you are paying 40 to 50 green fees a year.
    Think the model of €500 quid for the year plus pay for your golf could be the way forward for a lot of clubs to increase members. If you are a 10 to 20 rounds a year person then it is very hard to dish out €1500 for ther year. but if you could get your 10 rounds for €500 plus the next 10 for €150 you would be more likley to stay.

    The problem could be when you get to a tipping point where most of the members go for the cheap option.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    mike12 wrote: »
    I think when you compare the cost of green fees v's membership i can see why there are so many people opting out. If you just want to play golf them for most memberships you are paying 40 to 50 green fees a year.
    Think the model of €500 quid for the year plus pay for your golf could be the way forward for a lot of clubs to increase members. If you are a 10 to 20 rounds a year person then it is very hard to dish out €1500 for ther year. but if you could get your 10 rounds for €500 plus the next 10 for €150 you would be more likley to stay.

    The problem could be when you get to a tipping point where most of the members go for the cheap option.

    I wonder about pay per play - in whatever form. In our place, I think it would be extremely difficult to police. Summer evenings after about 8pm, you'd have the place to yourself. What do you charge for a few holes in the evening - the real benefit of membership for lots of people?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    Managers are part of the problem in many clubs, protecting their overpriced salaries over the interests of the clubs. Engineering who is on committees and keeping any discussion about their poor role quiet.


    Not denying that there are bad managers out there but as I mentioned above, you could incentivise them for the membership side.

    It really depends on the type of club etc.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,023 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    I wonder about pay per play - in whatever form. In our place, I think it would be extremely difficult to police. Summer evenings after about 8pm, you'd have the place to yourself. What do you charge for a few holes in the evening - the real benefit of membership for lots of people?

    pay per play doesn't work, I mentioned this previously that a club had implemented a membership where you paid x per year and x per round and members abused it by going out without paying. Was scrapped after a year or two as there was no ranger on duty to patrol it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    ssbob wrote: »
    Not denying that there are bad managers out there but as I mentioned above, you could incentivise them for the membership side.

    It really depends on the type of club etc.
    charlieIRL wrote: »
    pay per play doesn't work, I mentioned this previously that a club had implemented a membership where you paid x per year and x per round and members abused it by going out without paying. Was scrapped after a year or two as there was no ranger on duty to patrol it.

    I got offered a form of this this year without GUI as I wasn't renewing my membership but turned it down due to the 8 o clocks mentioned above, I would feel guilty about sneaking out on the course....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    I wonder about pay per play - in whatever form. In our place, I think it would be extremely difficult to police. Summer evenings after about 8pm, you'd have the place to yourself. What do you charge for a few holes in the evening - the real benefit of membership for lots of people?
    charlieIRL wrote: »
    pay per play doesn't work, I mentioned this previously that a club had implemented a membership where you paid x per year and x per round and members abused it by going out without paying. Was scrapped after a year or two as there was no ranger on duty to patrol it.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting pay and play as the only type of membership offering.

    But I do think there is a place in a range of membership offerings for a points option for those who would otherwise not play or continue with casual golfing.

    Of course there are always going to be some people abusing the system. They are there already, with or without a points offering. And, faced with the alternative of continuously declining revenues year on year ending up with closure, it's up to clubs to find solutions to both declining membership and how to mitigate the risks of even more abuse by people using their course for free.

    Nobody said there would be no issues or problems, or that there was a perfect, easy to implement solution.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    It is not just Ireland experiencing the downturn, Dicks Sporting Goods ( a big US sporting chain with a large golf section in store ) has just let go EVERY Pro from all it's shops, that's 524 per a quick news message on The Golf Channel, that's a big hit...

    My stuff on Adverts, mostly Tesla Pre Highland Model 3

    Public Profile active ads for slave1



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭Kevinmarkham


    slave1 wrote: »
    It is not just Ireland experiencing the downturn, Dicks Sporting Goods ( a big US sporting chain with a large golf section in store ) has just let go EVERY Pro from all it's shops, that's 524 per a quick news message on The Golf Channel, that's a big hit...

    Yea, just saw that (http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2014/07/22/dicks-sporting-goods-lays-off-all-its-in-store-pga.html) - brutal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    slave1 wrote: »
    It is not just Ireland experiencing the downturn, Dicks Sporting Goods ( a big US sporting chain with a large golf section in store ) has just let go EVERY Pro from all it's shops, that's 524 per a quick news message on The Golf Channel, that's a big hit...

    In isolation it could look bad for golf in the US, but it's just as likely that competitors are hurting them to the extent that their golf sales are down. The article linked above mentioned that they were going to reduce the amount of golf equipment they carried, so I'd suspect that they are being hit by the big golf only chains and internet sales.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    rrpc wrote: »
    In isolation it could look bad for golf in the US, but it's just as likely that competitors are hurting them to the extent that their golf sales are down. The article linked above mentioned that they were going to reduce the amount of golf equipment they carried, so I'd suspect that they are being hit by the big golf only chains and internet sales.


    Possibly, but didn't Edwin Watts get into trouble in the last year or so ? I've a vague recollection of reading something about bankruptcy or Chapter 11 or something.

    I'd say internet sales is a big factor though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    slave1 wrote: »
    It is not just Ireland experiencing the downturn, Dicks Sporting Goods ( a big US sporting chain with a large golf section in store ) has just let go EVERY Pro from all it's shops, that's 524 per a quick news message on The Golf Channel, that's a big hit...
    rrpc wrote: »
    In isolation it could look bad for golf in the US, but it's just as likely that competitors are hurting them to the extent that their golf sales are down. The article linked above mentioned that they were going to reduce the amount of golf equipment they carried, so I'd suspect that they are being hit by the big golf only chains and internet sales.
    Russman wrote: »
    Possibly, but didn't Edwin Watts get into trouble in the last year or so ? I've a vague recollection of reading something about bankruptcy or Chapter 11 or something.

    I'd say internet sales is a big factor though.

    There no doubting all the economic indicators that people are spending less money, particularly on discretionary stuff like golf. That leaves suppliers of goods and service in all businesses competing for a seemingly ever shrinking pool of available customer cash.

    Not an easy problem for professional businesses to deal with, let alone voluntary-run set ups like member owned golf clubs. Membership numbers are falling to critical levels in all but the most affluent clubs, located near to large centres of population. And even the “well off” clubs are facing drops in revenue and having to face up to revenue generation issues that were never any trouble before.

    I mean what do you do to compete these days? Cut costs – result decline in service standards (from course to clubhouse to pro-shop), less value for money? Cut membership & green fee rates – reduced revenue and non-availability of cash to maintain / improve standards? And all the while, hope you can survive longer than your competition. All sounds like spreading the butter more thinly, declining standards and fewer people spending money!

    Or maybe start to focus on customers – what they want, what they can afford, how to supply that need, how to let your existing and potential members know about the quality of your product and value for money (compared to the competition). CGI are recommending possible solutions for clubs to think about, in the form “points”, family membership, etc., but clubs don’t seem to be taking on these ideas in any great numbers so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    golfwallah wrote: »
    There no doubting all the economic indicators that people are spending less money, particularly on discretionary stuff like golf. That leaves suppliers of goods and service in all businesses competing for a seemingly ever shrinking pool of available customer cash.

    Not an easy problem for professional businesses to deal with, let alone voluntary-run set ups like member owned golf clubs. Membership numbers are falling to critical levels in all but the most affluent clubs, located near to large centres of population. And even the “well off” clubs are facing drops in revenue and having to face up to revenue generation issues that were never any trouble before.

    I mean what do you do to compete these days? Cut costs – result decline in service standards (from course to clubhouse to pro-shop), less value for money? Cut membership & green fee rates – reduced revenue and non-availability of cash to maintain / improve standards? And all the while, hope you can survive longer than your competition. All sounds like spreading the butter more thinly, declining standards and fewer people spending money!

    Or maybe start to focus on customers – what they want, what they can afford, how to supply that need, how to let your existing and potential members know about the quality of your product and value for money (compared to the competition). CGI are recommending possible solutions for clubs to think about, in the form “points”, family membership, etc., but clubs don’t seem to be taking on these ideas in any great numbers so far.[/QUOTE]

    I can see your point, but I don't think its as simple as that (or maybe as complicated). I don't believe that clubs are drifting along blissfully ignoring things and not looking at options to give themselves a better chance of weathering the storm. Most clubs I know of offer family memberships, 5 day options, under 35, student etc. Short of offering free golf, I don't know what some clubs are supposed to do. Where does the race to the bottom stop ?

    With all due respect, and don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at all, all the good ideas in the world are no use if there's only x number of golfers and the number of available clubs for them to join is such that y number of clubs simply cannot survive. Its like the loaves and the fishes.

    Ultimately when the price points merge, it will probably come down to location, and to a lesser extent, facilities, practice ground etc. Club loyalty is, unfortunately IMO, a distant memory, guys are chasing deals and going from club to club each year, with the result that no club can budget and has to effectively "wait and see" until the following March/April/May to figure out how many members they've lost. On an individual basis its hard to blame someone for taking the cheaper option if it keeps them in the game, but in the bigger picture its a bad thing IMHO.

    Of course, many clubs will have to make choices and perhaps some choices involve previously unpalatable decisions (from the existing members' points of view), but I do think the general downturn in golfer numbers is purely economic, less disposable income, and if you have a job, probably working more hours than you used to. Lots of clubs have id10ts running them or on committee, but its very hard to get new blood onto committees and if a club can't afford a full time manager, its pretty bleak.

    I think the rumour mill is surprisingly powerful in times like we have now also. People hear a club is in trouble, possibly even their own, and it can become a self fulfilling prophecy if communications aren't managed carefully.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    I think the problem is that there are just too many clubs chasing a limited number of potential members.
    This is the complete opposite of when I first joined a golf club in 1995. I had been on a waiting list for 2 years and only then got in because I personally knew the captain and he nominated me as one of his 'picks' for new members. I was supposed to be eternally grateful for this 'favour'.
    When I moved to a different part of the country a few years later, I enquired if I could 'transfer' my membership to a new club without paying a new entry fee. They thought I was mentally deranged for even thinking that might be a possibility!
    These kind of attitudes do not promote loyalty to a club.
    When entry fees eventually disappeared a couple of years ago, I was finally able to join a new club. I changed clubs again last year for financial reasons.
    Loyalty to a club is a thing of the past. Clubs must realise that they have to compete for new members and do more to retain their existing members. They should relate cost of membership to the actual use each member makes of the facilities. It is ridiculous that someone who only plays once a month pays the same as someone who plays three times a week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I think the problem is that there are just too many clubs chasing a limited number of potential members.
    This is the complete opposite of when I first joined a golf club in 1995. I had been on a waiting list for 2 years and only then got in because I personally knew the captain and he nominated me as one of his 'picks' for new members. I was supposed to be eternally grateful for this 'favour'.
    When I moved to a different part of the country a few years later, I enquired if I could 'transfer' my membership to a new club without paying a new entry fee. They thought I was mentally deranged for even thinking that might be a possibility!
    These kind of attitudes do not promote loyalty to a club.
    When entry fees eventually disappeared a couple of years ago, I was finally able to join a new club. I changed clubs again last year for financial reasons.
    Loyalty to a club is a thing of the past. Clubs must realise that they have to compete for new members and do more to retain their existing members. They should relate cost of membership to the actual use each member makes of the facilities. It is ridiculous that someone who only plays once a month pays the same as someone who plays three times a week.

    Actually, I think this was exactly what made people loyal to a club - for financial reasons.

    The levy or hello money was one thing that kept people in clubs. It stopped people from flipping between clubs and put a 'value' on ongoing membership.

    Whilst it may be understandable for individuals to move between clubs on an almost yearly basis, it makes management of the clubs very difficult. Hard to budget when you don't know your membership numbers.

    I think the reason that clubs appear slow to change to the new realities is that the whole business model of running a club has changed, not just the subs/hello money.

    For the majority of clubs - excluding the big name ones - major change is required. This may involve merging, closing down, different funding regimes, etc. One thing for sure; just cutting and cutting won't work.

    Locally, I'm not sure that there is the demand for two clubs between, say, Mitchelstown and Fermoy. Merging may be the answer but not without a lot of pain. I'm sure this situation is replicated across the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭alxmorgan


    Actually, I think this was exactly what made people loyal to a club - for financial reasons.

    The levy or hello money was one thing that kept people in clubs. It stopped people from flipping between clubs and put a 'value' on ongoing membership.

    Whilst it may be understandable for individuals to move between clubs on an almost yearly basis, it makes management of the clubs very difficult. Hard to budget when you don't know your membership numbers.

    I think the reason that clubs appear slow to change to the new realities is that the whole business model of running a club has changed, not just the subs/hello money.

    For the majority of clubs - excluding the big name ones - major change is required. This may involve merging, closing down, different funding regimes, etc. One thing for sure; just cutting and cutting won't work.

    Locally, I'm not sure that there is the demand for two clubs between, say, Mitchelstown and Fermoy. Merging may be the answer but not without a lot of pain. I'm sure this situation is replicated across the country.

    Fair points but I wouldn't use the word loyal in this context. Beholden perhaps.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I think the problem is that there are just too many clubs chasing a limited number of potential members.
    This is the complete opposite of when I first joined a golf club in 1995. I had been on a waiting list for 2 years and only then got in because I personally knew the captain and he nominated me as one of his 'picks' for new members. I was supposed to be eternally grateful for this 'favour'.
    When I moved to a different part of the country a few years later, I enquired if I could 'transfer' my membership to a new club without paying a new entry fee. They thought I was mentally deranged for even thinking that might be a possibility!
    These kind of attitudes do not promote loyalty to a club.
    When entry fees eventually disappeared a couple of years ago, I was finally able to join a new club. I changed clubs again last year for financial reasons.
    Loyalty to a club is a thing of the past. Clubs must realise that they have to compete for new members and do more to retain their existing members. They should relate cost of membership to the actual use each member makes of the facilities. It is ridiculous that someone who only plays once a month pays the same as someone who plays three times a week.

    How would a transfer work exactly?

    You've paid X grand to one club and now want to join another for free?
    Clubs are not like Gyms all owned by the same parent company, I cant see why you would think a transfer would work regarding anything other than your GUI fee?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    GreeBo wrote: »
    How would a transfer work exactly?

    You've paid X grand to one club and now want to join another for free?
    Clubs are not like Gyms all owned by the same parent company, I cant see why you would think a transfer would work regarding anything other than your GUI fee?

    With the demise of the entry fees, transfers are not needed any more. Even so, clubs in different parts of the country could form partnerships which would grant playing privileges to each other's members. Greenore and Ardglass have such an arrangement and I believe it works very well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    With the demise of the entry fees, transfers are not needed any more. Even so, clubs in different parts of the country could form partnerships which would grant playing privileges to each other's members. Greenore and Ardglass have such an arrangement and I believe it works very well.

    So you think club A should give some portion of your joining fee to club B or does club B just suck it up and do without?
    How do you determine how the fee is apportioned?

    Plenty of clubs still have joining fees.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    They should relate cost of membership to the actual use each member makes of the facilities. It is ridiculous that someone who only plays once a month pays the same as someone who plays three times a week.

    This already exists to a degree between 5 day and full members in most clubs. Other clubs then have additional options like a notional membership fee plus a pay and play fee each time but this adds additional cost to the club in terms of policing and collecting payment.

    Personally the reason I'm a full member is that I want to have the flexibility to play when the opportunity arises and if I had to pay per use it would be a serious disincentive. As a full member the incentive is to use the facilities as much as possible to gain value from your membership fee.

    A lot of the current trend with people exiting from the game I suspect is largely due to these once a month members choosing the cheap green fees option. Perhaps if green fee prices were more in line with the cost of membership more people would choose to continue being club members.
    GUI members could continue to avail of discounted fees playing neighboring clubs through the use of open competitions instead of the current trend where clubs seemingly allow non GUI members play at the reduced rate regardless further reducing the incentive of maintaining membership.

    Clubs need to work more in unison with a long term view rather than the current individualistic approach of grabbing any available cash.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭decko11


    slave1 wrote: »
    It is not just Ireland experiencing the downturn, Dicks Sporting Goods ( a big US sporting chain with a large golf section in store ) has just let go EVERY Pro from all it's shops, that's 524 per a quick news message on The Golf Channel, that's a big hit...


    Interesting


    I have visited the US regulary over the years .. and whats really noticeable is how driving ranges have lost some much business.

    A packed range years ago is now practically empty

    Other sports are gaining... golf is in decline

    and getting rid of the long putter for us amateurs will only drive more away and more pro's out of business

    Also, i have noticed here in Ireland ranges arent near as busy as 10 years ago

    Golf is in decline:

    - 5hour plus rounds
    - cost
    - lack of free time

    I blame alot on the pro v1 - courses could be a lot shorter - quicker rounds less maintenance costs - in the 80's with the balata ball playing 54 in a day was an option.....

    to combat this clubs need more 9 and 12 hole events


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭decko11


    "Every macro-indicator that we've been looking at for the past 20 years -- rounds played, number of minorities playing, women coming into the game -- all of these things that we tracked says that there's less people playing," Mark King, the former president of TaylorMade who was recently named president of adidas North America, told Bryant Gumbel on HBO's "Real Sports" in a segment that will air Tuesday night. "Young people entering the game after high school, 18- to 30-year-olds are down 35 percent in the last 10 years. So I don't like where the game looks like it's going."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭ssbob


    decko11 wrote: »
    I blame alot on the pro v1 - courses could be a lot shorter - quicker rounds less maintenance costs - in the 80's with the balata ball playing 54 in a day was an option.....

    to combat this clubs need more 9 and 12 hole events

    I personally have no interest in 9/12 hole events, I don't know why but I always am trying to beat my self over 18 holes ie. beat my previous best gross, that's the drive for me to get better,

    However I do agree with what your saying in relation to the balls going miles etc, a simple solution would be for the R&A and USGA to increase the size of the golf ball fractionally so it wouldn't fly as far.

    I still believe that a club with a good USP in a decent location can continue to do well, lets face it there are literally hundreds of thousands of golfers in Ireland. It would take a lot of work but something I noticed on a recent trip to West Cork was that the GAA complex there also houses sports physios and a public gym. For instance, rather than your standard pro shop what if halpenny of Nevada Bobs operated the Pro Shop while also incorporating the normal duties of the pro?

    Anyway as mentioned by me many times, a manager I believe is the way to go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,949 ✭✭✭wally79


    I posted this comment on the article the OP linked to but didn't get a response there.

    "As someone who plays every week but can’t see the justification in paying thousands of euro for membership can you explain to me “the benefits that follow from club membership”?

    On another point, I think “club ethos” and “club spirit” are overvalued as a selling point by existing club members particularly lifelong members. As someone with no connection to the clubs in my area, the spirit and ethos matter less than value and quality in the initial decision making process."

    I know over the year I will probably pay more for my golf depending on which club you were to join. But apart from the savings what does club membership give you?

    I have the flexibility of playing different courses if I want and with sites like teetimes there is always a fair bit of choice.

    I have been considering joining a club but haven't heard a persuasive enough argument for club membership yet.

    Any input would be appreciated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 934 ✭✭✭moycullen14


    wally79 wrote: »
    I posted this comment on the article the OP linked to but didn't get a response there.

    "As someone who plays every week but can’t see the justification in paying thousands of euro for membership can you explain to me “the benefits that follow from club membership”?

    On another point, I think “club ethos” and “club spirit” are overvalued as a selling point by existing club members particularly lifelong members. As someone with no connection to the clubs in my area, the spirit and ethos matter less than value and quality in the initial decision making process."

    I know over the year I will probably pay more for my golf depending on which club you were to join. But apart from the savings what does club membership give you?

    I have the flexibility of playing different courses if I want and with sites like teetimes there is always a fair bit of choice.

    I have been considering joining a club but haven't heard a persuasive enough argument for club membership yet.

    Any input would be appreciated.

    For me, the benefits are quite simple:
    1. It's very near to home
    2. Being able to mosey up for a few holes at 8pm on a summers evening.
    3. I've a wife and two kids who play so family membership works out quite reasonable.
    4. I get to ndecide when I play, no-one else.
    5. I know I would play very little golf if I wasn't a club member


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    wally79 wrote: »
    I posted this comment on the article the OP linked to but didn't get a response there.

    "As someone who plays every week but can’t see the justification in paying thousands of euro for membership can you explain to me “the benefits that follow from club membership”?

    On another point, I think “club ethos” and “club spirit” are overvalued as a selling point by existing club members particularly lifelong members. As someone with no connection to the clubs in my area, the spirit and ethos matter less than value and quality in the initial decision making process."

    I know over the year I will probably pay more for my golf depending on which club you were to join. But apart from the savings what does club membership give you?

    I have the flexibility of playing different courses if I want and with sites like teetimes there is always a fair bit of choice.

    I have been considering joining a club but haven't heard a persuasive enough argument for club membership yet.

    Any input would be appreciated.

    I guess it depends on what you want to get out of the game, but,

    Feeling part of something (if that's what you're looking for).
    Opportunity to play on teams.
    Maybe playing with different people and trying to improve through playing with better players.

    All of these will obviously mean nothing if you simply want to play 18 holes with your mates.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,949 ✭✭✭wally79


    Russman wrote: »
    I guess it depends on what you want to get out of the game, but,

    Feeling part of something (if that's what you're looking for).
    Opportunity to play on teams.
    Maybe playing with different people and trying to improve through playing with better players.

    All of these will obviously mean nothing if you simply want to play 18 holes with your mates.

    Feeling part of something is one of those things I am always doubtful of especially in well established clubs. I am probably incorrect but I always worry that clubs will be full of cliques. Probably just paranoia


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  • Site Banned Posts: 824 ✭✭✭Shiraz 4.99


    Golf clubs, like pubs before them, have suffered the lost generation once mortgage & kids come along.
    Outside of the costs, fathers cannot justify leaving herself stuck at home on a Saturday with 3 kids while he has a 5 hour fourball followed by 5 or 6 pints.
    It's been a societal shift as much as a financial decision for many former members.

    I am one of the above & can't wait for the young lad to turn 10 so I can bring him out with me with his siblings to follow.
    Then I'll be looking into he value of a family membership.

    Golf clubs have to factor in that they will loose a large tranche of 30 somethings for a decade but there's nothing they can do about it.


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