HSE retirement advice

jojobeans

Im looking for some advice for my mother, she has been a carer with the HSE For the past 19 years and today got a call from her HSE office to say that now she has reached 65 she will have to retire and has a week to finish up.

Has anyone been through the retirement process with the HSE that can give me any info?

A week seems a short time to warn somebody so shes not happy about it as shes fit and healthy and loves her job.
I understand if its in your contract that the retirement age is 65 theres not much she can do but surely a few weeks of warning should be statutory.

Mrs OBumble

Had she forgotten when her birthday was???

The only thing I would suggest to do is to get her birth certificate, and double-check that year of birth is correctly recorded. Every year, there are some people who "retire" and then discover that they've been mis-quoting their age for years.

jojobeans

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Had she forgotten when her birthday was???

The only thing I would suggest to do is to get her birth certificate, and double-check that year of birth is correctly recorded. Every year, there are some people who "retire" and then discover that they've been mis-quoting their age for years.

Thanks for your reply, she is just about to turn 65 in july, I understand if its written into your contract of work that you must retire at 65 then you have to but its the fact of the phonecall she got today to say she has a week to finish up, I was under the impression you would get more notice than this or it would be handled better

The_Conductor

jojobeans wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, she is just about to turn 65 in july, I understand if its written into your contract of work that you must retire at 65 then you have to but its the fact of the phonecall she got today to say she has a week to finish up, I was under the impression you would get more notice than this or it would be handled better

She has had 65 years of notice?
Sorry- I really don't understand- she retires at 65- she is approaching 65- surely the penny should have fallen?

Normal practice is to contact the person a week or two in advance- to finalise work arrangements, when they'll be finishing up etc, and make arrangements for their final salary payments etc.

You can organise to go on retirement courses- which 'teach you' how to live life in retirement- training divisions run these regularly- you can request them (you have to request them- they don't contact you offering them to you)........

I don't understand how/why you or your Mum thought she would just keep going?

blindsider

TBF, not everyone is familiar with the rules and regs - that's why they ask for advice here.

OP -I'm very surprised that someone didn't raise this with your Mum before now. However, that's not relevant here. 65 is the mandatory retirement age, and that seems to be set in stone. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/retirement/older_people_and_working/retirement_age_in_ireland.html

I would do 2 things:

- Query with her line manager

- Contact her Union rep for advice. (If this proves useless, I'd contact Citizen's Information)

Is your Mum paid weekly? If not, where did the week's notice come from?

My own feeling on this is that someone should have written to your Mum several months ago, confirming her retirement. If they didn't there's sth wrong somewhere.

IF no prior notice was given, I wonder would this apply?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/losing_your_job/losing_job_entitlements.html

Minimum period of notice
The amount of notice you are entitled to by law will depend on how long you have been working for your employer.

Duration of employment Minimum Notice
13 weeks to 2 years 1 week
2 years to 5 years 2 weeks
5 years to 10 years 4 weeks
10 years to 15 years 6 weeks
15 years or more 8 weeks

While the notice entitlements under your contract of employment can exceed the minimim periods above, any provision for notice in your contract for less then the above is invalid. This essentially means that while your contract of employment can set down that you will receive a greater amount of notice than the law states above, you cannot get less, even if your contract says this

Mrs OBumble

blindsider wrote: »

TBF, not everyone is familiar with the rules and regs - that's why they ask for advice here.

Yeah - but what exactly is the question that the OP is asking for advice with?

When the OP's mother started work, she signed a contract that said "You must retire at 65". That was years ago - so the notice has been given and the period has been served already.

I would have thought that the process was pretty simple:

• The employee confirms with her manager exactly which day she'll be finishing up on.
• Possibly the manager or colleagues organizes a farewell do of some sort.
• The employee submits her final timesheet (or whatever), payroll process her final payment. They know to do this because their system will have flagged it up.

Unless I'm missing something here?

MouseTail

Has she annual leave to take, hence she will be paid until her retirement date in July?

jojobeans

Thanks for the advice blind_sider I will look into that for her, I agree not everyone knows all the information thats why I originally posted to get other people's experiences on retiring from the HSE but you will always get someone with a smart answer.
On their website it states that minimum retirement age is 65 and there is no compulsory age to retire www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/Pension_Management/Frequently_Asked_Questions.

jojobeans

The_Conductor wrote: »

She has had 65 years of notice?
Sorry- I really don't understand- she retires at 65- she is approaching 65- surely the penny should have dropped.

65 years of notice? She wasnt working when she was a baby now was she.

I don't understand how/why you or your Mum thought she would just keep going?

Why wouldnt she want to keep going shes very fit and healthy and would put younger people to shame.

The_Conductor

jojobeans wrote: »

Thanks for the advice blind_sider I will look into that for her, I agree not everyone knows all the information thats why I originally posted to get other people's experiences on retiring from the HSE but you will always get someone with a smart answer.
On their website it states that minimum retirement age is 65 and there is no compulsory age to retire www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/Pension_Management/Frequently_Asked_Questions.

The minimum age of retirement @ 65 is for people who started with the HSE post the the April 2004 agreement. For pre-2004 staff, the minimum age is 60.

The HSE operates a statutory based retirement age- of 65 for staff members- this is in compliance with, and fully acknowledged in the 1998 equality act (and has been tested several times- in different areas of the public sector).

Other schemes exist for late entrants, alongside those who first join the civil service after certain dates- in future the 68 age rule will apply (possibly even 70- depending on circumstances).

The '65 minimum age of retirement'- is for those who first take up employment in the public sector- after the 1st of April 2004- which presumably does not apply to your mother.

The_Conductor

jojobeans wrote: »

Why wouldnt she want to keep going shes very fit and healthy and would put younger people to shame.

The argument- which has been accepted by employment tribunals- is that by allowing people continue in posts- they are blocking advancement and promotional prospects for other staff members.

Its been tested several times.

qwertyabcd

Would she not go into home help for a few years then, a few home help agencies are recruiting at the moment. My mum went from HSE to private sector and loves it.

blindsider

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yeah - but what exactly is the question that the OP is asking for advice with?

When the OP's mother started work, she signed a contract that said "You must retire at 65". That was years ago - so the notice has been given and the period has been served already.

I would have thought that the process was pretty simple:

• The employee confirms with her manager exactly which day she'll be finishing up on.
• Possibly the manager or colleagues organizes a farewell do of some sort.
• The employee submits her final timesheet (or whatever), payroll process her final payment. They know to do this because their system will have flagged it up.

Unless I'm missing something here?

I'm not sure that this counts as notice - as always I'm open to correction.

However, IMO this is not reasonable and I believe we are all entitled to be treated reasonably by our employers.

So, my opinion on this issue:

1 - Retirement at 65 is mandatory in this instance. (Nothing to stop the lady working for a private company tho.)

2 - Somebody from the HSE should have been in touch a long time ago, to discuss the lady's retirement etc and I feel that she should ask why this has not happened.

Mrs OBumble

blindsider wrote: »

Somebody from the HSE should have been in touch a long time ago, to discuss the lady's retirement etc

Genuine question: what's to discuss?

Ok, so most people have a bit of a party - but that's not HRs job to organise, manager and direct colleagues to do it.

Other than that ... just how much is there to say about "So you won't be working for us any more from next XXX".


I worked in a place over 25 years ago where a well-meaning manager offered one woman a retirement-planning course when she turned 60. She was highly miffed at the idea that her workplace should think they have any say over what she does once she's left. Never heard of it since, though.

The_Conductor

Thats precisely why you have to request retirement planning with us. Several women were highly offended to be approached and asked would they like to undertake retirement planning courses (at age 60- as its one of the statutory min retirement points). They thought it an affront that they would be offered a place in retirement planning- many of whom had no intention of retiring imminently, and others- who were deeply offended that their colleagues would now know they had reached the 60 year point- when they'd been hiding their age for years.

Guys- didn't seem to mind being offered the course.

After a case of age discrimination (why?) it was decided that henceforward you'd have to request retirement planning.

JuliusCaesar

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

a well-meaning manager offered one woman a retirement-planning course when she turned 60. She was highly miffed at the idea that her workplace should think they have any say over what she does once she's left.

I wonder did your mother know, but not WANT to know that she had to retire at 65? Surely she interacted with other staff, went to retirement parties etc?

The pre-retirement courses were put on hold for a few years in at least one region. But most people know that they are full of information about pensions, finances, how to work out what to expect, ideas for your lump sum, taxes, etc. And that really you should do them with at least 5 years to go, if not more.

Mrs OBumble

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

information about pensions, finances, how to work out what to expect, ideas for your lump sum, taxes,

All of which are matters which should be discussed with independent advisers - not your employer, who will have a vested interest in your taking certain courses of action.

blindsider

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Genuine question: what's to discuss?

Ok, so most people have a bit of a party - but that's not HRs job to organise, manager and direct colleagues to do it.

Other than that ... just how much is there to say about "So you won't be working for us any more from next XXX".


I worked in a place over 25 years ago where a well-meaning manager offered one woman a retirement-planning course when she turned 60. She was highly miffed at the idea that her workplace should think they have any say over what she does once she's left. Never heard of it since, though.

Lots of things have changed in 25 yrs Mrs O - discrimination, bullying etc etc were pretty much unheard of and no legislation was in place. I suspect retirement planning is of a similar vintage.

I take The Conductor's point re applying for it in the HSE, and I know nothing of their culture etc.

What does seem odd, is that (apparently) the 1st thing this lady has heard re retirement is an email - with 1 week to go.

Surely, this would have been mentioned in a review or meeting?

Do you really not think it a little strange that this was never mentioned, until she received the email?

Parties etc? Obviously nothing to do with HR or the Manager (in an official capacity)

blindsider

The_Conductor wrote: »

Thats precisely why you have to request retirement planning with us. Several women were highly offended to be approached and asked would they like to undertake retirement planning courses (at age 60- as its one of the statutory min retirement points). They thought it an affront that they would be offered a place in retirement planning- many of whom had no intention of retiring imminently, and others- who were deeply offended that their colleagues would now know they had reached the 60 year point- when they'd been hiding their age for years.

Guys- didn't seem to mind being offered the course.

After a case of age discrimination (why?) it was decided that henceforward you'd have to request retirement planning.

But it is discrimination on the grounds of age - they were entirely correct.

Unfortunatley for them, it's also allowed for under Statute, so there's no case.