2nd cut silage, is it worth it?

blue5000

Is there many ppl on here making 2nd cut silage? What's it cost?

Greengrass1

blue5000 wrote: »

Is there many ppl on here making 2nd cut silage? What's it cost?

Yes and a third cut I'd say on Hybrid/itailian.
2 bags of cut sward on itailian and hybrid.
3 cut sward on normal pg grass

munkus

Blue,

As a beef man like yourself, I don't think so. You'll be putting out almost double the amount of fertilizer in the year as well as having land tied up for most of the summer. In my system I need the silage ground back in July to finish cattle off grass and maybe taking out 4 - 8 acres for reseeding. This means I have to get a bulky first cut, preserved from early April with 2 bags of urea and cut 2nd week of June.

Deepsouthwest

blue5000 wrote: »

Is there many ppl on here making 2nd cut silage? What's it cost?

Def not a fan of second cut here, poorer quality feed and hard on the land as well. One bigger later first cut here(10th June), generally taking advantage of peak growth in May and early June, and having more ground available for grazing in April when grass is short supply here. Then bales on any surplus grass after that, ideally on grazing ground that hasn't been cut already. Of course this is in an ideal world, but I have to have some plan!

mf240

Cut some land three times every year.

Only 18 months since cattle were dying of the hunger in this country and now lads are topping and cutting back on fert.

Paddy farmers memory is very short indeed.

Deepsouthwest

mf240 wrote: »

Cut some land three times every year.

Only 18 months since cattle were dying of the hunger in this country and now lads are topping and cutting back on fert.

Paddy farmers memory is very short indeed.

I've never spread more fert than I have this yr, and have never had so much silage. Can't understand lads saying they have plenty grass and only spreading 1/2 a bag after the cows, this is peak growth, the best time to get value/utilisation out of fert spread, and the best time to make silage with that surplus grass. These are the same guys that'll be chancing out with a pallet nxt sept trying to stretch what grass they have into the winter, when they'll only get 50% utilisation from it then

Milked out

IT depends on your system, but perhaps the most value could be taken from having a second cut by taking both cuts for quality as opposed to bulk leaving you with as much bulk as a late first cut except with better quality. I.e taking first cut mid May and second cut early to mid July.

_Brian

mf240 wrote: »

Cut some land three times every year.

Only 18 months since cattle were dying of the hunger in this country and now lads are topping and cutting back on fert.

Paddy farmers memory is very short indeed.

I'd disagree somewhat with that notion.
We should only be making feeding I get is through the housing and then a bit extra. Making piles if bales to have stuck at the back of a ditch is very inefficient farming.

I suppose a balance as ever, but lads should definitely be budgeting feed volumes and balancing that against the cost if feed.
Wih the cost of making second cut stuff and many making poor quality stuff it can often make little sense.

mahoney_j

Don't normally do second cut but if I do I'll aim for as much quality over bulk as pissible.cut first cut 3 week of May then straight in with slurry and fertliser and cut no more than 6 weeks later,I'd aim for 5.ive really taken to this grass measuring crack and now find that for the most time I have very good silage and excellent quality grass through the summer.cant understand lads having big heavy cuts to fill the pit or bale stack with poor quality and then having to feed dry cows meal and yearlings hi protein meal to compensate

stanflt

mahoney_j wrote: »

Don't normally do second cut but if I do I'll aim for as much quality over bulk as pissible.cut first cut 3 week of May then straight in with slurry and fertliser and cut no more than 6 weeks later,I'd aim for 5.ive really taken to this grass measuring crack and now find that for the most time I have very good silage and excellent quality grass through the summer.cant understand lads having big heavy cuts to fill the pit or bale stack with poor quality and then having to feed dry cows meal and yearlings hi protein meal to compensate

Second cut now completely finished-

whitebriar

In my opinion,if your 1st cut is sufficient for your needs (and it can be) then a 2nd cut is a waste of time money and resources.
You'd be far better off having a mower and baler to take out any paddock that gets too forward for stock.

Timmaay

I've afew acres left aside for a 2nd cut now, however with the dry weather and growth slowing down I am now feeding it to the cows instead (lovely covers of 1500 on it right now). Our cover/LU is high at the minute, but too much of a risk to take out covers. (well that and my dad refuses to cut "lawn clippings"). We often end up getting a good burst in growth in late Aug/Sept and go for a 2nd cut then, what sort of quality would silage that late be?

blue5000

I have a couple of paddocks closed up instead of topping, not sure yet wether to pit or bale it. If it's light it will probably be baled. Planning on more kale/redstart than other years too.

mahoney_j

whitebriar wrote: »

In my opinion,if your 1st cut is sufficient for your needs (and it can be) then a 2nd cut is a waste of time money and resources.
You'd be far better off having a mower and baler to take out any paddock that gets too forward for stock.

With the year were having and growth as strong as it is I'm baling as often as I can to keep grass right and to build a bank of silage.a bank of good silage is money in the bank ,think back to spring 2013 when a lot of lads were looking at back walls of puts in jan/feb and giving big money for lucky dips (wraps).i for one wouldn't br too peeved if next April in looking at a pit of silage or wraps sitting in the stack .

_Brian

mahoney_j wrote: »

With the year were having and growth as strong as it is I'm baling as often as I can to keep grass right and to build a bank of silage.a bank of good silage is money in the bank ,think back to spring 2013 when a lot of lads were looking at back walls of puts in jan/feb and giving big money for lucky dips (wraps).i for one wouldn't br too peeved if next April in looking at a pit of silage or wraps sitting in the stack .

I can see where that is fees able with a paddock system and if a fella has his own machines.
But getting a contractor to bale a 2 acre paddock that's a bit strong for grazing would be mad money. If my contractor thinks the crop is light he charges by the acre, I think he said he charges to six bales no matter what or he would be working for nothing and running roads essentially topping for lads. I see his point too.

Charliebull

it all depends on the system, land is fragmented so the smaller fragmented areas are held for silage and the larger blocks for paddock grazing thus less time spent on road with cattle but this means 2 cuts is required to make up quantities

also would it not be better to hold a smaller area for silage and cut twice which allows one to carry more stock,

Milked out

_Brian wrote: »

I can see where that is fees able with a paddock system and if a fella has his own machines.
But getting a contractor to bale a 2 acre paddock that's a bit strong for grazing would be mad money. If my contractor thinks the crop is light he charges by the acre, I think he said he charges to six bales no matter what or he would be working for nothing and running roads essentially topping for lads. I see his point too.

I regularly bale and only get 3 or 4 bales to the acre, if my contractor was charging for more than what was There I would be changing. On the small acreage I ask them to come as they're passing or sometimes give the neighbour a shout to see if he wants to knock a paddock or two as well to have a bit more work for him

Milked out

blue5000 wrote: »

I have a couple of paddocks closed up instead of topping, not sure yet wether to pit or bale it. If it's light it will probably be baled. Planning on more kale/redstart than other years too.

Yeah the key with a second cut what ever way you're doing it is to take it early so it's back growing and ready for grazing in early autumn late summer

Muckit

blue5000 wrote: »

I have a couple of paddocks closed up instead of topping, not sure yet wether to pit or bale it. If it's light it will probably be baled. Planning on more kale/redstart than other years too.

How does kale far out compared with grass silage cost wise?

With silage, ground is closed up for 6-8weeks so less grazing. You have slurry to spread which costs.
Kale you have tilling/sowing costs. No slurry costs. But is land held up for a lot of the year? I suppose it would be done in a reseeding programme to offset this.

stanflt

Muckit wrote: »

How does kale far out compared with grass silage cost wise?

With silage, ground is closed up for 6-8weeks so less grazing. You have slurry to spread which costs.
Kale you have tilling/sowing costs. No slurry costs. But is land held up for a lot of the year? I suppose it would be done in a reseeding programme to offset this.

Slurry is not a cost it's an asset to any land

Farmer Pudsey

stanflt wrote: »

Slurry is not a cost it's an asset to any land

I am having this argument with lads about the value of slurry. I think you can get up to 20 units of N/1Kgallons. from slurry if spread at right times 15 is achievable a lot of the time during the spring. I cry at present to see lads putting slurry out on good land at present.

15 units of N, 38K and I think about 7P. That is equivlent to 1/3 of a bage of urea and a bag of 0-7-30 and an extra bit of K. It value would be up on 30 euro/1K gallons or 60 euro/tanker At present it is costing me about 12 euro/1K gallons to spread. I give silage ground 3-4K gallons/acre and a bag of urea. I think I am hitting over 100 units of N per acre. At present there is about 15K gallons in one tank I will not spread until autumn.

Muckit

stanflt wrote: »

Slurry is not a cost it's an asset to any land

Of course it is. I was referring to the cost of having to put it out vs the animal ****ting in the field of kale

Muckit

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I am having this argument with lads about the value of slurry. I think you can get up to 20 units of N/1Kgallons. from slurry if spread at right times 15 is achievable a lot of the time during the spring. I cry at present to see lads putting slurry out on good land at present.

15 units of N, 38K and I think about 7P. That is equivlent to 1/3 of a bage of urea and a bag of 0-7-30 and an extra bit of K. It value would be up on 30 euro/1K gallons or 60 euro/tanker At present it is costing me about 12 euro/1K gallons to spread. I give silage ground 3-4K gallons/acre and a bag of urea. I think I am hitting over 100 units of N per acre. At present there is about 15K gallons in one tank I will not spread until autumn.

Don't be sobbing too much now when you are spreading that slurry this autumn

'Dry your eyes mate theres plenty more slurry in the tank'

Greengrass1

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I am having this argument with lads about the value of slurry. I think you can get up to 20 units of N/1Kgallons. from slurry if spread at right times 15 is achievable a lot of the time during the spring. I cry at present to see lads putting slurry out on good land at present.

15 units of N, 38K and I think about 7P. That is equivlent to 1/3 of a bage of urea and a bag of 0-7-30 and an extra bit of K. It value would be up on 30 euro/1K gallons or 60 euro/tanker At present it is costing me about 12 euro/1K gallons to spread. I give silage ground 3-4K gallons/acre and a bag of urea. I think I am hitting over 100 units of N per acre. At present there is about 15K gallons in one tank I will not spread until autumn.

Have spread feck all dung here this year. Going to spread it all after seconfmd cut
Should have oddles of grass next spring from it.
Releases N slowly during the yr

severeoversteer

blue5000 wrote: »

Is there many ppl on here making 2nd cut silage? What's it cost?

I have always made second cut, will make 3 cuts here this year

I put slurry out for second cut on last week in may immediately after first cut

I spread can with sulphur for second cut at 2.7 bags per acre

my stock tend to do better on my second cut silage and weighing stock has proved this, if you can get dry second cut and give it a bit of a wilt it is serious stuff

blue5000

Muckit wrote: »

How does kale far out compared with grass silage cost wise?

With silage, ground is closed up for 6-8weeks so less grazing. You have slurry to spread which costs.
Kale you have tilling/sowing costs. No slurry costs. But is land held up for a lot of the year? I suppose it would be done in a reseeding programme to offset this.

I worked it out last year incl. bbsilage fed on the kale it cost 27cent per day to feed weanlings on kale with no meal. You're right it does take land out of grass for over a year, but I minimise this by sowing kale after 1st cut, then plough again after kale and sow arable silage undersown with grass. Dung and slurry is ploughed in for the kale. Cost of 2nd cut silage for a weanling my guess would be 60-75 cent a day?

Muckit

Thanks blue5000. A very helpful response as always

The Cuban

Going to take a second cut from about a third of the silage ground. I used 3k gallons of slurry per acer and a half a bag of manure (usually what manure is left over)
Leave to grow for 10 weeks. Cheap and cheerful method thats really only suitable if you have your own equipment for spreading the slurry. If you have to pay a doesy contractor every time you want to spread a bit of slurry then your beat

Mulumpy

The Cuban wrote: »

Going to take a second cut from about a third of the silage ground. I used 3k gallons of slurry per acer and a half a bag of manure (usually what manure is left over)
Leave to grow for 10 weeks. Cheap and cheerful method thats really only suitable if you have your own equipment for spreading the slurry. If you have to pay a doesy contractor every time you want to spread a bit of slurry then your beat

Wouldnt entirely agree there. I use a contractor to spread all my slurry. I spend 50hrs a week off farm so haven't time for doing it myself. Its tax deductible. No diesel, no repayments and no maintenance costs.

The Cuban

Mulumpy wrote: »

Wouldnt entirely agree there. I use a contractor to spread all my slurry. I spend 50hrs a week off farm so haven't time for doing it myself. Its tax deductible. No diesel, no repayments and no maintenance costs.

Owning your own equipment can also be a Tax advantage as in depreciation, running costs etc. The point I was making was that its isn't really a go`er if your relying on the contractor to do a small area it just wont be cost effective way of getting him. Most farmers who use contractors for slurry usually spread it all at once, taring the fields closest to the tanks with slurry

Mulumpy

The Cuban wrote: »

Owning your own equipment can also be a Tax advantage as in depreciation, running costs etc. The point I was making was that its isn't really a go`er if your relying on the contractor to do a small area it just wont be cost effective way of getting him. Most farmers who use contractors for slurry usually spread it all at once, taring the fields closest to the tanks with slurry

I wouldnt say most. The careless and inefficient ones maybe.