Dodgy Diesel

OldmanMondeo

So unknown to me I have been buying diesel that may be either very poor quality or washed, mechanic called it dirty dish water.

I am now concerned about any damaged that may be done to my car. Is there anything I can use, apart from quality diesel, that might help counter any damage done? I have been using this station for easily 1 year, not the cheapest around either, but is local.

It also begs the question, how do you know the fuel your buying is good quality and legal...

Gazzmonkey

Don't think you can counter any [current] damage, not without replacing the parts that is!

I'm sure there must be a number you can ring to report suspect fuel.

OldmanMondeo

Gazzmonkey wrote: »

Don't think you can counter any damage, not without replacing the parts that is!

I'm sure there must be a number you can ring to report suspect fuel.

Revenue, already rang.

MuppetCheck

How do tho pay? Can you prove the purchases? Can you get a sample of the fuel?

OldmanMondeo

Paid 90%+ on debit card, samples can be taken, from 1 of 2 cars. Best thing for revenue is to sample the pump marked diesel.

MuppetCheck

Did it do damage or was the filter clogged?

OldmanMondeo

No damage, as of yet. Her car was serviced last week, mine to be done soon, much sooner than I was expecting now. All filters have been changed on her, mine will be all done wither this week of next week.

ION08

My God, with all these reports of dodgy diesel you'd be better off using green diesel, at least youd know it hasn't been washed in cat litter!

DaveJac

ION08 wrote: »

My God, with all these reports of dodgy diesel you'd be better off using green diesel, at least youd know it hasn't been washed in cat litter!

ive seen green diesel in a few vans recently thats been 50% water and dirt and caused serious damage too, dirty/washed diesel is a serious problem in this country always get a recepit and try get your fuel from the one place. It can be hard enough to get paid out if something does happen will end up in your insurance company fighting with the shops insurance company in the few cases ive seen

quadrifoglio verde

DaveJac wrote: »

ive seen green diesel in a few vans recently thats been 50% water and dirt and caused serious damage too, dirty/washed diesel is a serious problem in this country always get a recepit and try get your fuel from the one place. It can be hard enough to get paid out if something does happen will end up in your insurance company fighting with the shops insurance company in the few cases ive seen

Green diesel shouldn't do any damage. It should be just diesel with a dye in it.
Washed diesel on the other hand will.

leeroybrown

DaveJac wrote: »

ive seen green diesel in a few vans recently thats been 50% water and dirt and caused serious damage too, dirty/washed diesel is a serious problem in this country always get a recepit and try get your fuel from the one place. It can be hard enough to get paid out if something does happen will end up in your insurance company fighting with the shops insurance company in the few cases ive seen

Green dieses will do absolutely no damage. It's just a chemical marker that's designed to burn cleanly in the engines. Washed diesel on the other hand has had that marker removed with chemicals that leave the fuel more acidic with reduced lubrication qualities. Contaminated fuel will always be unhealthy for your vehicle.

DaveJac

I know the green diesel will do know harm just this green diesel was 50% water/dirt that did the damage kept in poor tanks on farm yards ect that leak and years of dirt in the bottom ect that will do serious damage to a modern diesel engine

MugMugs

DaveJac wrote: »

will end up in your insurance company fighting with the shops insurance company in the few cases ive seen

Can you expand on that please? I want insurance with a company who will cover mechanical defects.

Motor insurance generally excludes mechanical failure which is the consequence of washed diesel. In the event that you've witnessed an insurer subrogate on a mechanical failure against a garage, that means they indemnified the initial mechanical failure.

Who is this insurer?

visual

it may not be washed diesel, a lot of small garages often have old underground tanks that become contaminated with water rust and dirt

if the underground tank is low or just had a fill the contaminates will be present at the pump.

your fuel filter will catch most of this and most fuel filters also trap water.

if the mechanic opens the fuel filter up its will look worse than it is and might get confused for washed diesel.

a drop of two stroke motorcycle oil in with the diesel will keep the pump lubricated while the suspect diesel works its way out of your car.

dgt

OP if you want to be sure, buy the fuel in jerry cans and see what it looks like when filling your tank. Using my own pic from this site, you can see the difference in the colour alone.

Look at that. I'm accrediting a site that hasn't accredited me properly for my own pic. Funny old world eh....

Bandara

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

So unknown to me I have been buying diesel that may be either very poor quality or washed, mechanic called it dirty dish water.

I am now concerned about any damaged that may be done to my car. Is there anything I can use, apart from quality diesel, that might help counter any damage done? I have been using this station for easily 1 year, not the cheapest around either, but is local.

It also begs the question, how do you know the fuel your buying is good quality and legal...

PM me the station you got it from and I'll most likely be able to advise if it is a fuel issue.

OldmanMondeo

Bandara wrote: »

PM me the station you got it from and I'll most likely be able to advise if it is a fuel issue.

It is in the hands of revenue. I am not saying the diesel is washed, it could be poor quality. I am more concerned now about possible engine damage and what I can do to reduce that.

DaveJac

MugMugs wrote: »

Can you expand on that please? I want insurance with a company who will cover mechanical defects.

Motor insurance generally excludes mechanical failure which is the consequence of washed diesel. In the event that you've witnessed an insurer subrogate on a mechanical failure against a garage, that means they indemnified the initial mechanical failure.

Who is this insurer?

Think it was axa will check for you, the customers insurance company were very helpful to her and was evetually paid out but alot of over and back and did take a few months to resolve

visual

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

It is in the hands of revenue. I am not saying the diesel is washed, it could be poor quality. I am more concerned now about possible engine damage and what I can do to reduce that.

Changing the fuel filter is first place to start most cars fuel filter is DIY do able.

Draining the tank would be idea but not very pratical. Any way after a couple of refills it be gone anyway.

Two stroke motorcycle oil is the best thing you can add to your tank. Ratio of 50:1 to 100:1 or 1 litre of Two stroke per tank for next couple of tanks.

Meeoow

You can get pH strips and check diesel. pH of decent diesel should be 5.8. If it's washed with acid, it will be below 5.8. If it is mixed with kerosene, it won't show.
Good luck with revenue, they are more concerned with getting Joe soap to pay the property tax or install standard number plates on their vehicles, or pay vrt, than catch the dodgy filling stations.
Use Maxol and get receipts. Also, use dipetane, it helps the fuel system.

deancogan28

I wish people would name and shame the garages. I have just put 50e of washed diesel in my car, I now need a new fuel pump, a new fuel filter, car rental for 2 days and mechanic labour. The garage I bought mine is in Bective co Meath, unknown to me the guy is from South Armagh, and has already had 3 garages closed down in the north east area. I am going to call customs today bit the gardai have already said its a civil matter and dont want to know...

Nekarsulm

Local mechanic told me yesterday, that with the quality of diesel in some filling stations, you would want to be driving nothing newer than a VW Vento!

MugMugs

deancogan28 wrote: »

I wish people would name and shame the garages.

You're not allowed name and shame the garages. It goes against the rules of this site. Until they are prosecuted, anything that anybody says is just hearsay.

Tail Docker

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Local mechanic told me yesterday, that with the quality of diesel in some filling stations, you would want to be driving nothing newer than a VW Vento!

I kinda agree. Our older yokes all run fine, but the new crds chuck and splutter if you put in poor fuel, they're like a crap-fuel detector. Good diesel is becoming harder to track down - some funny sources of crap, big places you'd never suspect at all..

OldmanMondeo

deancogan28 wrote: »

I wish people would name and shame the garages. I have just put 50e of washed diesel in my car, I now need a new fuel pump, a new fuel filter, car rental for 2 days and mechanic labour. The garage I bought mine is in Bective co Meath, unknown to me the guy is from South Armagh, and has already had 3 garages closed down in the north east area. I am going to call customs today bit the gardai have already said its a civil matter and dont want to know...

I would love to name and shame, but as pointed out, it is against the charter. But what I will say is the garage I was buying from has similar owners to the one you mentioned.

Bandara

Sadly nothing will be done about this, revenue are simply not going after the criminals properly

I listed to revenue officials the sites selling washed fuel, revenue are 100% aware of who is selling washed derv / striped unl, that have known who these guys are for the past 2-3 years.

Yet nothing is done, the 2nd largest station in dublin has been selling washed derv blatantly and openly for years, revenue have removed fuel from the site on several occasions. The inspectors are afraid to go onto this forecourt without garda backup as they are openly threatened.

It's a disgrace. I am tested maybe every 3 months despite revenue and customs knowing with 100% certainty that my fuel is unquestionable. I welcome them inspecting at any time, I take the opportunity to inform revenue that I have been approached by a certain person who is trying to sell me washed fuel, I have named him, told exactly what he said to me, the price quoted to me, the reg of the car he was driving and the list of the sites he operates and supplies to.

Yet 3 years on he is still doing it.

Country is a joke. Sadly Oldmanmondeo, nothing will be done about your report.

BMJD

Bandara wrote: »

I listed to revenue officials the sites selling washed fuel, revenue are 100% aware of who is selling washed derv / striped unl,

slightly off topic, but what is "striped unl"? dodgy unleaded petrol?

Days 298

I put €80 of crap diesel in my car last Summer. Only use Maxol and Topaz now but even the local topaz makes my engine splutter a bit more than I like. Seriously tempted to switch to green diesel. Live in the city surrounded by crap petrol stations. The 3 nearest ones I wouldnt touch with a pole. The fine is €1000 if caught? I am already down the bones of €200 when I went to the mechanic to empty my fuel tank, new filter and a new tank of diesel :mad:. If Revenue and the Gov are to insist on selling diesel at two different prices and taxing it to such an extent they have to ensure the consumer/taxpayer is protected. But alas as long as they are paid they dont give a sh*t and rather than go after the suppliers of crap diesel they go after the average motorist.

Old diesel

Days 298 wrote: »

I put €80 of crap diesel in my car last Summer. Only use Maxol and Topaz now but even the local topaz makes my engine splutter a bit more than I like. Seriously tempted to switch to green diesel. Live in the city surrounded by crap petrol stations. The 3 nearest ones I wouldnt touch with a pole. The fine is €1000 if caught? I am already down the bones of €200 when I went to the mechanic to empty my fuel tank, new filter and a new tank of diesel :mad:. If Revenue and the Gov are to insist on selling diesel at two different prices and taxing it to such an extent they have to ensure the consumer/taxpayer is protected. But alas as long as they are paid they dont give a sh*t and rather than go after the suppliers of crap diesel they go after the average motorist.

Are there other consequences to running green diesel BESIDES a 1,000 euro fine.

One would want to check if for example - running on Green diesel is something that on conviction - would give you a criminal record :eek:

I don't know if it does - but its WELL WORTH checking before doing it - rather then discovering AFTER getting caught.

I think the cure is to forget diesels - and if you want a newish car - just import a petrol from the UK.

Why should motorists risk doing serious damage to their engines :mad::mad::mad:

I thought there is now some marker in green diesel that's impossible to remove?

That should stop the washing of diesel.

Nekarsulm

and is this new marker also in red diesel?

the_syco

Bandara wrote: »

Sadly nothing will be done about this, revenue are simply not going after the criminals properly

It nearly makes one wonder if one will lose in the diesel lotto. Have a petrol, and may go diesel for my next car a few years down the line, but it seems that the money I may save on tax and fuel prices, I may end up paying on new parts should I lose the diesel lotto (for that's what it seems to be ).

leeroybrown

Nekarsulm wrote: »

and is this new marker also in red diesel?

Yes. It's a cross-border initiative covering the entire UK and Ireland.

deancogan28

I brought my car back to the guy who gave me dodgy diesel with a sample of the diesel and the bill for repair €300. He was hesitant at first but he paid up once I threatened him with small claims court and customs. I had already called customs who will be calling to him in the coming days.

delahuntv

There's a huge amount of mis-information about "dirty diesel". Most mechanics wouldn't have a clue of what they are talking about and I certainly wouldn't belive the crap most of them spout in order to warrant excessive charges.

There is an issue with washed diesl, so best to go for branded garages.

1. All diesel will have partcles of dirt in it.
2. Road Diesel can be different colours at different times of year and from different refineries. (ranges from green to yellow to almost clear).
3. Dirt builds up in the tank over time - the last fill may just be the straw to break the back rather than the actual cause.
4. Old fuel stations that juts get a fill can have old bits of dirt sloshing around for a while - best not to fill just after a staion gets a delivery.

The best way to avoid issues (besides using branded and reputable garages) is to run as close to empty as often as possible so that dirt does not build up in the tank. And also have the car serviced properly - again, unscrpulous car mechanics take short-cuts.

There's loads and loads of info available online - but try ignoring the ones with zero knowledge spouting off blame for the sake of it with no info.