Please slow down in Ongar Village

Twizzler

Hi, I've just been reading the below thread about slowing down in housing estates and wanted to add that residential areas also include what are predominantly seen as commercial areas...specifically, I'm referring to where I live, Ongar Village. I witness far too much speeding on a daily basis in an area where there are residential units with children living in them all around the village....over the shops, behind the car park (The Paddocks), The Avenue, North St, etc. There are a lot of families living in the apartments in The Paddocks with quite a lot of children, and these children play right beside one of the busiest parking areas. It's easy to forget when you're coming to a place to do your shopping that it's a place of residence too, so could I respectfully ask that everyone bears that in mind if you have business in the village, please?
Another area to slow down in is on the Avenue, particularly if you're turning left from Main St to the Avenue - the side of Paddy Powers is a busy juncture because you frequently have people crossing from behind parked cars to go to the playground. Visibility is very poor in this area.
Thank you.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057229615

daymobrew

Unfortunately you are preaching to the choir.

Conscientious people will hear and agree with your request. The people that are doing the speeding probably won't.
As that thread said, speed bumps only slow down those that care for their cars.

On my road, with 3 creches/pre-schools, much of the speeding is by parents going to/from those creches/pre-schools!!

A few years ago Councillor Kieran Dennison suggested making the default speed limit in housing estates 30km/h. I don't think he did anything beyond making the suggestion. Of course, speed limit signs and "Slow: Children at Play" signs are in themselves useless, only adhered to by the conscientious.

Skatedude

Speed ramps are a big no no. They are only put in by idiots. Pay attention next time you are driving down a road with ramps and you will notice that drivers are always concentrating on the ramps, not the road or pedestrians.

Speed cameras would be a better solution as they only catch the muppets and not drivers who actually drive properly

MammaZita

Could parents also please stop parking their cars at the double yellow lines at the gates of the St Benedicts / CETNS / Ongar Community Centre campus? Surely you and your little darlings can manage the 2 minutes extra it takes to walk from the end of the carpark at the back of Dunnes Stores? It is the same cars there every morning and at the afternoon collections. Has this area been taken over by Fingal Co Co yet as if so it's time to get the Guards down and issue these lazy, inconsiderate parents with a few tickets so that we can start the new term in September with a safe walk into and out of our schools.

A child has already been struck by a car, and there have been numerous 'tips' off other cars trying to reverse. It's only a matter of time before something more serious happens.

liamog

I think the setup at the community centre is ridiculous, there is a car park with a wide turning circle that should be used for drop-offs and managing traffic, instead it's a staff only car-park.

beauf

What studies suggest that speed ramps don't work? As a driver I hate them and they have a lot of negatives. But a quick look at the research and it suggests they do reduce speeds.

Are there any fixed speed cameras like you are suggesting in Ireland?

MammaZita

liamog wrote: »

I think the setup at the community centre is ridiculous, there is a car park with a wide turning circle that should be used for drop-offs and managing traffic, instead it's a staff only car-park.

Why should it be used for drop offs? Can children not walk from the adequate carpark a few hundred metres away at the side of Dunnes? No wonder there are so many unfit and overweight children in our community.

Indeed most children attending both schools are from comfortable walking and cycling distance from both schools so no need for the cars at all.

And who exactly is going to bring the children from your proposed "drop off" area to their various classes?

The carpark at the community centre is intended solely for school staff, community centre staff and those using the community centre outside of school drop off and collection times (hence the locked gate at these times). It was never intended to be for parents.

Larbre34

Haven't people noticed the original speed ramps in Ongar village, which by the way are in rag order?

I wouldnt speed going through it as said ramps would make mince meat out of your suspension.

Twizzler

Larbre34 wrote: »

Haven't people noticed the original speed ramps in Ongar village, which by the way are in rag order?

I wouldnt speed going through it as said ramps would make mince meat out of your suspension.

Just on that topic, a lot of the speed ramps around the village are used as pedestrian crossings, which is a big problem when they're not pedestrian crossings! It's ok if you have full visibility, but often you'll have people parked on either or both sides of the ramps and someone will walk right out onto the ramp. This happens a lot on North St - if you turn left at the roundabout (the mini roundabout that only some people can see - some drive straight through it) in front of the pub and drive down North St, you'll often find people walking straight out onto the ramp from behind a parked car in front of Bonanza. The ramps aren't much use to prevent accidents though when some people instantly rev up the second they're over them and then zoom into areas full of children - again, I'm thinking of The Paddocks.

As both a driver and a pedestrian in the village, I sympathise with pedestrians because it's a very busy area and it's not easy to get around with buggies etc. I also sympathise with drivers because the layout of the village and the sheer volume of folks going through it every day makes it hazardous. Cars are just dumped around the village and yet there's always loads of spaces free behind Dunnes.

I don't have children in Benedicts or Educate Together but I would love to have a car park close to the school my kids go to from which we could walk to the school safely...our walk is not the safest, so the walk from Dunnes to the school sounds pretty good to me, rain, hail or shine!

beauf

pedestrian the whole village!

ongarboy

The ramp between Dunnes closed old "entrance" and Pavlovs bakery should definitely be a proper zebra crossing due to the high volume of pedestrians crossing ay that point. Most motorists yield but you always get the odd inconsiderate driver!

Twizzler

beauf wrote: »

pedestrian the whole village!

I can just imagine the expressions on the faces of the local business owners reading that suggestion

Twizzler

ongarboy wrote: »

The ramp between Dunnes closed old "entrance" and Pavlovs bakery should definitely be a proper zebra crossing due to the high volume of pedestrians crossing ay that point.

Agreed!

beauf

Twizzler wrote: »

I can just imagine the expressions on the faces of the local business owners reading that suggestion

Pedestrianised shopping it will never catch on lol ðŸ˜

CrazyRabbit

MammaZita wrote: »

Could parents also please stop parking their cars at the double yellow lines at the gates of the St Benedicts / CETNS / Ongar Community Centre campus? Surely you and your little darlings can manage the 2 minutes extra it takes to walk from the end of the carpark at the back of Dunnes Stores? It is the same cars there every morning and at the afternoon collections. Has this area been taken over by Fingal Co Co yet as if so it's time to get the Guards down and issue these lazy, inconsiderate parents with a few tickets so that we can start the new term in September with a safe walk into and out of our schools.

A child has already been struck by a car, and there have been numerous 'tips' off other cars trying to reverse. It's only a matter of time before something more serious happens.

Take pictures. Note the date and time. Send to Blanch Gardai station.

liamog

MammaZita wrote: »

Why should it be used for drop offs? Can children not walk from the adequate carpark a few hundred metres away at the side of Dunnes? No wonder there are so many unfit and overweight children in our community.

Indeed most children attending both schools are from comfortable walking and cycling distance from both schools so no need for the cars at all.

And who exactly is going to bring the children from your proposed "drop off" area to their various classes?

The carpark at the community centre is intended solely for school staff, community centre staff and those using the community centre outside of school drop off and collection times (hence the locked gate at these times). It was never intended to be for parents.

Oh I've no problem with kids walking, however the car park does not appear to be designed as a drop off area, whereas the area in front of the school appears to be inefficient car park design but a well designed drop off area.

Somewhat bizarrely given your assertion that this area was not designed as a pickup/drop-off is the description in the planning application indicating the areas for pickup and the planning application letter submitted the department of education indicating that the land was acquired for the purpose of car parking and drop-off/pick-up zone.

Whilst I'm sure the department of education regularly purchases land for the purposes of accidentally designing drop off areas for schools in this case maybe they did it deliberately.

MammaZita

liamog wrote: »

Oh I've no problem with kids walking, however the car park does not appear to be designed as a drop off area, whereas the area in front of the school appears to be inefficient car park design but a well designed drop off area.

Somewhat bizarrely given your assertion that this area was not designed as a pickup/drop-off is the description in the planning application indicating the areas for pickup and the planning application letter submitted the department of education indicating that the land was acquired for the purpose of car parking and drop-off/pick-up zone.

Whilst I'm sure the department of education regularly purchases land for the purposes of accidentally designing drop off areas for schools in this case maybe they did it deliberately.

These drop off areas have proven to be a disaster in other schools as no one actually brings the children into school so defeats the purpose. Just look at what was happening in Scoil Gráinne a few years back (rows between drivers, violent threats made against volunteer parents, etc).

The BOM together with Fingal Co Co took the decision prior to opening the school in its current location that there would be no parking for patents within the school campus (which is infact too small for the numbers of children attending both schools and significantly smaller than it was originally supposed to be back at the early planning stages 10+ years ago). In any event with the exception of the lazy inconsiderate parents who continually park at the gates every morning and afternoon, this has worked very well as there is more than ample parking in Dunnes stores carpark- the back of which is less than 2 minutes walk to the school.

liamog

These drop off areas have proven to be a disaster in other schools as no one actually brings the children into school so defeats the purpose. Just look at what was happening in Scoil Gráinne a few years back (rows between drivers, violent threats made against volunteer parents, etc).

So the response to not supplying staff to escort children the 150m from a designed drop-off area to their class room areas is to move them to a badly designed car-park for the purpose of use as a school drop off zone.

Perhaps a better approach would have been to rebuild the end of the Dunne's car park in a way that didn't encourage parents to park in a supermarket car park to drop off kids.

The BOM together with Fingal Co Co took the decision prior to opening the school in its current location that there would be no parking for patents within the school campus (which is infact too small for the numbers of children attending both schools and significantly smaller than it was originally supposed to be back at the early planning stages 10+ years ago). In any event with the exception of the lazy inconsiderate parents who continually park at the gates every morning and afternoon, this has worked very well as there is more than ample parking in Dunnes stores carpark- the back of which is less than 2 minutes walk to the school.

The parents who use the designed school access route, which is now not being used to purpose. I'd suggest the school and access route were built where they where for the purpose of access from none Ongar Village children and that turning the apartments to side into a glorified roundabout is not desired.

MammaZita

liamog wrote: »

So the response to not supplying staff to escort children the 150m from a designed drop-off area to their class room areas is to move them to a badly designed car-park for the purpose of use as a school drop off zone.

Perhaps a better approach would have been to rebuild the end of the Dunne's car park in a way that didn't encourage parents to park in a supermarket car park to drop off kids.



The parents who use the designed school access route, which is now not being used to purpose. I'd suggest the school and access route were built where they where for the purpose of access from none Ongar Village children and that turning the apartments to side into a glorified roundabout is not desired.

Do you honestly think staff are going to escort children from a drop off area to the school from 8.30am? Are you serious? What happens in cold and wet weather? There are over 24 classes in SNBS and probably more in CETNS!!

The supermarket car park works well as shoppers use the side nearest Dunnes to park and school parents use the side nearest the school. There always appears to be adequate space any time I've had to use it (only on very wet days when school traffic is even worse). I agree it's not ideal- but then again in an ideal world, children would walk or cycle to school.

liamog

MammaZita wrote: »

Do you honestly think staff are going to escort children from a drop off area to the school from 8.30am? Are you serious? What happens in cold and wet weather? There are over 24 classes in SNBS and probably more in CETNS!!

Yes. In cold and wet weather, exactly the same. We're asking kids to be escorted 150m and not across the Antarctic.

The supermarket car park works well as shoppers use the side nearest Dunnes to park and school parents use the side nearest the school. There always appears to be adequate space any time I've had to use it (only on very wet days when school traffic is even worse). I agree it's not ideal- but then again in an ideal world, children would walk or cycle to school.

Or the council build an access to the car-park from the entrance to the school, therefore avoiding congestion in the village, at the same the spaces can be widened to be safer.

To be clear, I'm not in favour of parents driving kids to school, but I'm a pragmatist and know its going to happen. I just think we should discourage any driver incursion into the village as much as possible.

Larbre34

Twizzler wrote: »

The ramps aren't much use to prevent accidents though when some people instantly rev up the second they're over them and then zoom

This is the inherent issue with ramps, and the reason they are not publicly funded as a traffic calming measure anymore.

MammaZita

liamog wrote: »

Yes. In cold and wet weather, exactly the same. We're asking kids to be escorted 150m and not across the Antarctic.



Or the council build an access to the car-park from the entrance to the school, therefore avoiding congestion in the village, at the same the spaces can be widened to be safer.

To be clear, I'm not in favour of parents driving kids to school, but I'm a pragmatist and know its going to happen. I just think we should discourage any driver incursion into the village as much as possible.

Well good luck to getting the INTO to agree to getting teachers to escort children to their various classrooms because their parents cannot be bothered getting them to walk a few metres! This is definitely not going to happen.

I would rather have cars and traffic around a retail area and supermarket, than a school campus. The latter is much more likely to be the scene of an accident given the age profile of the majority of pedestrians.

liamog

MammaZita wrote: »

Well good luck to getting the INTO to agree to getting teachers to escort children to their various classrooms because their parents cannot be bothered getting them to walk a few metres! This is definitely not going to happen.

I would rather have cars and traffic around a retail area and supermarket, than a school campus. The latter is much more likely to be the scene of an accident given the age profile of the majority of pedestrians.

And I'd rather have kids in areas designed for small pedestrians than in car parks but I guess we'll disagree on that one.

MammaZita

liamog wrote: »

And I'd rather have kids in areas designed for small pedestrians than in car parks but I guess we'll disagree on that one.

No I totally agree with you- footpaths are perfectly designed for pedestrians of all ages and sizes, and we are also fortunate to have wonderful cycle lanes all around our community. No need to bring children to car parks before and after school at all.

RoiSoleil

Larbre34 wrote: »

Haven't people noticed the original speed ramps in Ongar village, which by the way are in rag order?

I wouldnt speed going through it as said ramps would make mince meat out of your suspension.

Yes, they badly need replacing. Does anybody know who is responsible for them?

CrazyRabbit

They are speed ramps? I thought it was just the aftermath of a bomb site.

December2012

Responsibility of the management company - who don't have the funds because of people not paying their fees.

liamog

December2012 wrote: »

Responsibility of the management company - who don't have the funds because of people not paying their fees.

Have the roads not been taken in charge by council yet?

December2012

liamog wrote: »

Have the roads not been taken in charge by council yet?

Nope!

liamog

December2012 wrote: »

Nope!

That's mad, does anybody have the snag list that is preventing them from doing it?

Twizzler

Larbre34 wrote: »

Haven't people noticed the original speed ramps in Ongar village, which by the way are in rag order?

I wouldnt speed going through it as said ramps would make mince meat out of your suspension.

Jesus Christ, those speed ramps...I went over the one on the way into the village earlier (near the pub) and I still feel seasick. There must be at least 20-30 holes in it.

Omackeral

My biggest gripe with Ongar driving wise is the people who park all around that one way part of the road in front of the big yellow building at the top (or bottom) of the village next to Paddy Power and the two takeaways. It's hard to see anything, which is of concern given there's a playground just there, and it's easy to clip a badly parked motor.

d15ude

December2012 wrote: »

Responsibility of the management company - who don't have the funds because of people not paying their fees.

in that case i strongly advice the shops and stores in ongar to fund the repairs, otherwise they will lose my business pretty soon.

oblivious

d15ude wrote: »

in that case i strongly advice the shops and stores in ongar to fund the repairs, otherwise they will lose my business pretty soon.

They all ready pay commercial rate, which is essentially a property tax that should cover local issue like roads

Larbre34

oblivious wrote: »

They all ready pay commercial rate, which is essentially a property tax that should cover local issue like roads

Not roads that aren't in charge of Fingal Co Co they don't. Ongar remains private and is in no condition to be handed over to the Council, which is the Catch 22, Fingal wont take it on until everything is repaired and installed to standard.

oblivious

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not roads that aren't in charge of Fingal Co Co they don't. Ongar remains private and is in no condition to be handed over to the Council, which is the Catch 22, Fingal wont take it on until everything is repaired and installed to standard.

Oh I know, but they still pay rates and rent. Its just the poster suggested that business should sort it out, when its very like the issue is private residences not paying their fees that caused the problem.

d15ude

oblivious wrote: »

Oh I know, but they still pay rates and rent. Its just the poster suggested that business should sort it out, when its very like the issue is private residences not paying their fees that caused the problem.

I as a shopper don't really care whose fault the condition of the area is.
If it is run down I go somewhere else, and I quite sure I'm not alone.

So it certainly is in the own interest of the store owners to sort it out asap.
Of course their a are other stake holders like lessors etc.

Larbre34

d15ude wrote: »

I as a shopper don't really care whose fault the condition of the area is.
If it is run down I go somewhere else, and I quite sure I'm not alone.

So it certainly is in the own interest of the store owners to sort it out asap.
Of course their a are other stake holders like lessors etc.

I'm with you there, I'm closer to Ongar than Clonee yet I choose the latter because of the state of Ongar, the streetscape is wrecked and a hazard to cars

The entrance to Dunnes, and the condition of the carpark surrounding is so shabby now, it must be the least inviting Dunnes in Ireland.

One possible solution is for Fingal not to grant any further planning permissions elsewhere for anyone involved in Ongar as a development, until Ongar is repaired to standard. Residents there should lobby the Council on it.