Sale Agreed - Survey states Attic Conversion not structurally sound

morrigan2014

Hey all

We went sale agreed on a 3 bed semi detached house in North Kildare 2 weeks ago and we have just got our survey report. Our surveyor says that attic conversion is not structurally sound.

We are in a position now where we are going to go back and offer a lower price than we had originally offered. We are aware that the owners are eager to move as they have bought another property.

Has anyone been in this position before? Successful/unsuccessful? We have been searching for a house for months and really don't want to lose it however it requires more work than we expected and it's such a big commitment that we want to be happy with price.

TheDriver

Unfortunately attic conversions are not always done to building regs. Why is it unsafe?? Iz it something small or big to fix as engineers need to clarify to u

L1011

You really need to get a quote to rectify it and use that as the bargaining chip - try to get the price down by that much.

Also ensure that it actually has planning permission and that your lender (if there is one) will lend for the house with one less bedroom as that's what you'll actually be buying.

morrigan2014

Thanks for replies.

Our surveyor is currently preparing a report with the cost of fixing it right so we'll be using this as reason for lower price. It's unsafe as there are wardrobes underneath the attic in the bedrooms which are beginning to crack due to the pressure upstairs.

It's so competitve out there at the moment I'm worried we are going to lose it but then again they are likely to have a same issue with other potential buyers.

Bigcheeze

Sounds like the dodgy builder didn't use an RSJ (steel beam) to support the attic floor. Or else the conversion was a DIY job.

Attics aren't generally designed to take the weight of a living space without extra support. Also the reason why people shouldn't store lots of heavy things up there.

TheDriver

indeed, sounds more DIY. Is the attic to regs i.e. correct heights on stairs. I would be very cautious about this purchase and proceed carefully as do you really want to be getting into this? Also they might not like suggestion that there is something wrong with the property and pull it from you. Alternatively they know the problems and hence why they are selling hoping you won't see.
This is a serious issue so be very very careful.
On a side note: the amount of people who are converting attics and not being to regs. AFAIK, if you put a stairs up there (which you must) on an existing 2 storey, you must have fireproofing all the way down to front door which means changing doors etc. Even if you just want to call it a store room, the stairs changes the whole game. [correct me if I am wrong but after looking into it, seems most friends who converted their attics are not in line with regs]

Marcusm

morrigan2014 wrote: »

Thanks for replies.

Our surveyor is currently preparing a report with the cost of fixing it right so we'll be using this as reason for lower price. It's unsafe as there are wardrobes underneath the attic in the bedrooms which are beginning to crack due to the pressure upstairs.

It's so competitve out there at the moment I'm worried we are going to lose it but then again they are likely to have a same issue with other potential buyers.

You might have a bigger problem - discuss it with the solicitor as depending on his/her approach and the particular lender you may not be able to draw down on a mortgage. THe words "structurally unsound" and the fact that it is impacting on other floors will not be easily ignored.

Dredd_J

I dont know if its the same these days, but I sold my 4 bed house almost 10 years ago and had converted the attic myself was useable as a bedroom or an office. I had put up walls, insulation, but no beams and had no planning permission for it. And it didnt have the required head height to be called a room.

I did have a few bidders come back to try and get money off, but the house had been advertised as a 4 bed detached house.
I didnt mention an attic conversion is the advertisement at all. People came and saw the 4 bed house and then when they saw the stairs to the attic, which still made it an attic, just one that they could walk up to and use to store boxes or do whatever they wanted, they had different reactions.

Most saw that as a bonus, "useable attic" and the bids were higher in general.

Some were looking for money off as the "attic conversion" was not right and had no planning permission.

But I hadnt said it was anything more than an attic. If I had of said it was a room and had asked for more as a result, then I would say fair enough, the house was not as good as advertised. As it was it was better than advertised.

So OP, ask yourself is it a 3 bed house or a 2 bed house with a better attic. Or better, a 3 bed house with a better attic.
Becuase thats what makes all the difference if it was sold as a 3 bed house.

ixus

You are not thinking logically here. Walk away.

A success would be paying your surveyor a relatively small some to save you from paying for an overvalued or unsafe house.

Why would you want to buy someone else's problem?

I walked away from a house on surveyors report when vendor only made a token drop.

As noted. A good solicitor will not allow this to go through anyway.

morrigan2014 wrote: »

Hey all

We went sale agreed on a 3 bed semi detached house in North Kildare 2 weeks ago and we have just got our survey report. Our surveyor says that attic conversion is not structurally sound.

We are in a position now where we are going to go back and offer a lower price than we had originally offered. We are aware that the owners are eager to move as they have bought another property.

Has anyone been in this position before? Successful/unsuccessful? We have been searching for a house for months and really don't want to lose it however it requires more work than we expected and it's such a big commitment that we want to be happy with price.

Valentine1

OP the real issue here will be your mortgage lender, it may be unlikely that they will lend on a house with structural issues, certainly they won't lend the amount you have originally offered to purchase for.

If you could get the house at a significant discount it may still be a viable prospect. You would need to negotiate a price for only the legitimate bedrooms, less the cost of remedying the unsafe attic conversion, even at that price finding a willing lender may be difficult.

No doubt the seller won't be happy with that but any other buyer they find is going to have the same issues. If you are a cash buyer think long and hard about what you are getting into, remember the saying, "the day you buy is the day you sell."

spaceHopper

If they haven't reforced the roof with iron work then it could compromise the whole house. RUN away as fast as you can

sanny82

can you recommend your surveyor? We looking for one to do our report in Bettystown

cpoh1

spaceHopper wrote: »

If they haven't reforced the roof with iron work then it could compromise the whole house. RUN away as fast as you can

No it cant, that is just sensationalist SpaceHopper.

OP there are a few opinions here that count and none of them are on boards. Get all the info from the surveyor together, implications for the rest of the house, cost to remedy etc. and then go talk to your solicitor about what the next steps are. Try not to worry until you have all the information.

My only advice is not to engage directly with the estate agent yourself and not before you have all the information from the surveyor and solicitor.

Tombo2001

I'm going to be a contrarian voice here.

My guess is that a huge amount of attic conversions are not structurally sound. I wouldnt be as alarmed as some of the punters here.

To put it another way......should it really surprise you that they havent put a steel beam in? It would nearly surprise me more if they had.

How much do you want the house?

Talk to your surveyor - you could convert the attic to storage space only......?

Ray Palmer

cpoh1 wrote: »

No it cant, that is just sensationalist SpaceHopper.

It could compromise the whole structure depending on how it was done. It doesn't require a steel beam to convert an attic. That is a sensational requirement.

There are however many factors required to convert an attic into a usable bedroom that many houses wouldn't match. Most noticeably the fire protection around the stairs is the issue most don't comply with.

Any problem can be addressed on a house it is just a matter of money and time. You may be able to pick up a bargain but you will need to be sure you can do the work affordably.

Getting a mortgage could be a problem but you can get one if you explain you cost assed the work and have somebody to do it.

dharma200

My grandmothers neighbour converted their attic. (their house was attached to her house)
Within 5 years her whole house developed cracks. their house was fine, my grannies house was destroyed with cracks.
It turned out their attic conversion put pressure on the entire structure of my grannie shouse causing the cracks.
The person who did the conversion sold and in the end the people who bought the house had to pay (or their insurance) a huge sum of money out, and it basically rendered their house unsaleable and unmortageable. Make sure you know th whole implications, Something like this can actually ruin your life for a long time.

Milly15

You don't need planning permission for attic conversions. If they have architects compliance letter then you have no worries.
Was there much interest in the sale from other bidders?

TheDriver

It might be compliant to regs regarding heights and fire regs but it could still be built crap

Milly15

People who comment without facts and slander professional architects shouldn't be allowed to just because of one pompous git!

Big Cheese

Who slandered the architect?

Milly15 wrote: »

People who comment without facts and slander professional architects shouldn't be allowed to just because of one pompous git!

RainyDay

Milly15 wrote: »

If they have architects compliance letter then you have no worries.

Tell that to the folks in Longboat Quay.

Paulw

Mod Note: No need to come back to a thread from 2014 for just these comments.