Brother Problems

LegacyUser

My younger brother lives with my husband and myself ever since my mother died 2.5 years ago. I'm 29 brother is nearly 19.
My mam was a great mother but she OVER mothered my brother. She did everything for. Even all his thinking.
He is a good young fella compared to others in the area. But 2.5 years on, still won't use his head. I have to tell him to have a shower. To wash his hands & teeth. He spills something he just steps over it and I have to clean it.
But tonight took the biscuit. He pee'd on the bathroom floor. I'm due my first baby in a few short weeks and I had to get down and clean it while he stood there saying sorry when he didn't even sound like he was sorry.
My husband has had enough.
I'm stuck between a rock & a hard place. I can't kick him out. There is no one else to look out for him. But things will come to a head if something isn't sorted. I've talked to my brother so many times about why he doesn't think and he just shrugs. I've tried being nice, and shouting at him but it's like it goes in one ear and out the other.
I'm at my wits end.

Big Bag of Chips

Why did you get down on your hands and knees to clean it while he stood there looking at you?

I have 2 boys. The youngest is 5. Sometimes they miss the toilet. When I find it, I ask whose mess it is and I make them come in and clean it.

Yes, your mother might have over-mothered him, but you are continuing it. Why are you telling a 19 year old to brush his teeth? If he smells offensive, tell him he smells offensive and let him figure out how to not smell!

I think you may have posted about your brothers before.. it is wonderful that you were in a position to take your brother in. But you are taking on too much responsibility for his personal care. You need to let him make his own mistakes. Otherwise he'll never learn to be independent. He has always had someone telling him what to do and when to do it.

Typer Monkey

It's very admirable that you are essentially raising your teenage brother. It can't be easy and you are to be commended for it. Essentially though you are continuing to over mother him. He needs to learn the consequences of his own actions. If he doesn't shower he'll walk around smelly as a result. You certainly shouldn't be bending down cleaning up pee at 9 months pregnant. Why didn't you tell him to clean it up. Supervise him doing it if you don't trust he will. Tell him to clean up what he has dropped on the floor. You need to lay down some rules for living as adults together. Maybe your partner could have a man-to-man word if you feel like you're nagging him.

Has he had any help with dealing with your mother's death? How is he in general? Has he friends, college, part time job?

Good luck with the baby, it's an exciting time. Look after yourself

harr

A good man to man chat is needed, at 19 there is no way he should have to be told to shower or brush his teeth. Is he working /collage ?
There is no way you should be cleaning up his piss off floor , you really need to step back a bit and start to lay some ground rules.
If I were your husband he would have been told long ago .
The longer you keep treating him like a five year old the longer it will take to sort out, he needs a wake up call both for your sake and his.

LegacyUser

The reason I cleaned it is because if he cleaned it, I would still have to do it again after him. He just can't clean at all.
He works, but its not even part time. Two, maybe three days a weeks for 5/6 hours. He's finished college for the summer and hoping to get into Maynooth or UCD in September.

I've asked him if he's on drugs, he said no. I have to remind him to shower as he has a skin condition so needs to keep it clean.

I know i should let my husband shout at him, he's never been properly shouted at, at all. I can't properly shout, I actually get upset shouting.
I know if my mam was still about he would just sit at home all day, he would never have gone to college or done anything with himself.

I can't kick him out, but he can't live with us forever. I know its his home just as much as mine (it use to be my mam's house, so husband moved in after she died)

Its not typical teenage madness, it can't be.

gazzer

UsernameDarth wrote: »

My younger brother lives with my husband and myself ever since my mother died 2.5 years ago. I'm 29 brother is nearly 19.
My mam was a great mother but she OVER mothered my brother. She did everything for. Even all his thinking.
He is a good young fella compared to others in the area. But 2.5 years on, still won't use his head. I have to tell him to have a shower. To wash his hands & teeth. He spills something he just steps over it and I have to clean it.
But tonight took the biscuit. He pee'd on the bathroom floor. I'm due my first baby in a few short weeks and I had to get down and clean it while he stood there saying sorry when he didn't even sound like he was sorry.
My husband has had enough.
I'm stuck between a rock & a hard place. I can't kick him out. There is no one else to look out for him. But things will come to a head if something isn't sorted. I've talked to my brother so many times about why he doesn't think and he just shrugs. I've tried being nice, and shouting at him but it's like it goes in one ear and out the other.
I'm at my wits end.

Why did you do this. Why didnt you tell him to do it?

ronjo

UsernameDarth wrote: »

The reason I cleaned it is because if he cleaned it, I would still have to do it again after him. He just can't clean at all.
He works, but its not even part time. Two, maybe three days a weeks for 5/6 hours. He's finished college for the summer and hoping to get into Maynooth or UCD in September.

I've asked him if he's on drugs, he said no. I have to remind him to shower as he has a skin condition so needs to keep it clean.

I know i should let my husband shout at him, he's never been properly shouted at, at all. I can't properly shout, I actually get upset shouting.
I know if my mam was still about he would just sit at home all day, he would never have gone to college or done anything with himself.

I can't kick him out, but he can't live with us forever. I know its his home just as much as mine (it use to be my mam's house, so husband moved in after she died)

Its not typical teenage madness, it can't be.

Is it time maybe you let your husband deal with him? especially if he is willing to

Typer Monkey

There are options between babying him and shouting at him. Your husband could sit him down and have a stern/serious conversation about not treating you like a skivvy, respecting himself, you and your home, looking after himself like an adult, taking some responsibility and behaving like a man not an overgrown toddler. Shouting at him will only get his defenses up. He can speak to him sternly without shouting and it descending into an argument. The desired result is that he feels ashamed at his childish behaviour and realises real men don't need to be told to wash.

And it doesn't matter if his cleaning isn't perfect. The very act of kneeling down and sopping up his urine with a cloth will make his aim more accurate in future. He'll learn a lot more from that than standing by like a toilet training 2 year old apologising.

He's never had to learn to be self sufficient. His lack of self sufficiency is causing you issues (which will just get worse when the baby comes and you've less time to mind a man child). You need to force the issue. He's not going to learn to clean/cook/shop/self motivate by osmosis. You need to 'teach him' by not doing everything for him.

Preparing a child for the outside adult world is an important part of parenting. It looks like you'll have to do this now or risk him being a burden to you and a mal adjusted adult

alleystar

UsernameDarth wrote: »

Its not typical teenage madness, it can't be.

Of course it's not, I don't know any 19 year old who behaves like that. His behavior is plain weird, getting his pregnant sister to clean up his urine whilst he watches.. If he's going to college, is he going to move out? Nobody in a houseshare will take his crap, a good dose of reality would do him no harm.

miamee

I presume if he is in college or going to college then he is a reasonably intelligent man (at 19 he is definitely not in 'child' category). The only one going to be adversely affected with his skin condition is him, so let him get itchy/sore a few times and work out that showering = less itch or pain. If he is never let work things out for himself, he never will.

Could you have a chat with him over dinner or something at home either you and your husband or just you? Explain to him that there is a baby about to come into all of your lives and that you won't have time to look after him as much as you have done up to now as the baby will need you more. You will be tired and busy and you ALL need to pull together as a family because the new baby is going to affect all of your lives. He needs to not just start cleaning up after himself but start contributing to the household as an adult, at the very least by doing a few chores around the place.

LegacyUser

miamee wrote: »

I presume if he is in college or going to college then he is a reasonably intelligent man (at 19 he is definitely not in 'child' category). The only one going to be adversely affected with his skin condition is him, so let him get itchy/sore a few times and work out that showering = less itch or pain. If he is never let work things out for himself, he never will.

Could you have a chat with him over dinner or something at home either you and your husband or just you? Explain to him that there is a baby about to come into all of your lives and that you won't have time to look after him as much as you have done up to now as the baby will need you more. You will be tired and busy and you ALL need to pull together as a family because the new baby is going to affect all of your lives. He needs to not just start cleaning up after himself but start contributing to the household as an adult, at the very least by doing a few chores around the place.

He is actually very intelligent. He is just SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO laid back (if he was anymore laid back he would be dead)

He's never had a "man to man" talk as our dad died when he was 10 years old so he spent all his time with my mother and grand mother and they did everything for him.

I've talked to him before that I'm his sister, not his mother, but I still have to be "in charge". But when the baby comes, that he has to clean himself and clean up after himself and he says he knows.

I just don't know anymore. I thought we got all this into his head. Its like he just pretends to listen or just fobs it off.

One of you said imagine if he was in a house share....I don't even want to think about it. We left him in the house for 3 weeks last year. He can hoover no bother (who can't), but the bathroom and kitchen, yeah that was horrible. I said his boyfriend could stay one or two nights a week, yeah he stayed the whole three weeks and he did the cooking and had grease all over the place and it was never cleaned.

I just don't want to be a nag! I don't nag my husband. But he is getting fed up with all this.

ElleEm

miamee wrote: »

I presume if he is in college or going to college then he is a reasonably intelligent man (at 19 he is definitely not in 'child' category). The only one going to be adversely affected with his skin condition is him, so let him get itchy/sore a few times and work out that showering = less itch or pain. If he is never let work things out for himself, he never will.

Could you have a chat with him over dinner or something at home either you and your husband or just you? Explain to him that there is a baby about to come into all of your lives and that you won't have time to look after him as much as you have done up to now as the baby will need you more. You will be tired and busy and you ALL need to pull together as a family because the new baby is going to affect all of your lives. He needs to not just start cleaning up after himself but start contributing to the household as an adult, at the very least by doing a few chores around the place.

This is great advice. Maybe you need to move away from talking down to him ("have a shower", "brush your teeth") and start treating him like a peer. You are not his mother, but you have slipped into that role. You are his sister, and although older, his equal. If he doesn't shower, his skin condition will continue. It is HIS skin condition. If he doesn't wash himself, he will either start smelling himself, or a friend will tell him he stinks.

YOU need to take responsibility for yourself in this. As the above poster said, have a chat about how you all have to pull together now for the new baby coming. Tell him you will need more help around the house. Ask him how he thinks he can help, (see if he offers to pick up some chores himself, or else pick something together that he can be in charge of- hoovering the whole house, etc.). Come to an agreement with the three of you that you all wash your own dishes/ clothes, etc. You could even mention soon that you must teach him how to use the washing machine/ dishwasher as he will have to start looking after himself when the baby arrives. If it helps, write things down. You should take charge over the chat and kind of gear it towards your brother and your husband, so he doesn't feel like a scolded child.

bee06

Do you know for a fact that he can't do it or is he doing a half *ssed job because he knows you'll sort it after? I have a 19 year old brother who frankly has been babied by my mother and he is perfectly capable of doing things himself but he has no problem chancing his arm and asking me to so it instead just to see if he can get out of it himself.

newdriverlad

Who actually owns the house?

LegacyUser

UsernameDarth wrote: »

The reason I cleaned it is because if he cleaned it, I would still have to do it again after him. He just can't clean at all.

Then you make him do it again and if he doesn't do it right make him do it again and keep making him do it until he does it right. He is never going to learn if he is not made to learn. A 19 year old peeing on the floor is not on. Either he needs professional help or he needs you and your husband to stop babying him or most likely a combination of the two.

December2012

UsernameDarth wrote: »

The reason I cleaned it is because if he cleaned it, I would still have to do it again after him.

No you wouldn't, you would just have to ask him to clean it again. It's a small amount of liquid - if he knows how to use toilet roll or how to use a napkin then he knows how to use kitchen roll and cleaner or a wipe

I have to remind him to shower as he has a skin condition so needs to keep it clean.

No you don't - it's his skin and it's his problem.

I know i should let my husband shout at him

No you shouldn't, shouting accomplishes nothing, even more so if you've smothered him so much that the shouting is just to alleviate your frustration. Talk to him certainly, but no shouting.

I know if my mam was still about he would just sit at home all day, he would never have gone to college or done anything with himself.

You can't know that. You can't know how he would have turned out. You were older than he is now when your father died. You were 27 - already an adult - when your mother died. His experience and treatment has been very different to yours.

I can't kick him out, but he can't live with us forever. I know its his home just as much as mine (it use to be my mam's house, so husband moved in after she died)

It's his house too, you don't really have an upper hand simply because you're older and have reinforcements there in the way of your brother and your child. If you don't want to live with him forever then you have just as much option of moving out as he does.

Its not typical teenage madness, it can't be.

There's nothing typical about this situation. You've treated him like a baby instead of like a compassionate adult. You are showing your love for him by taking charge if him, instead of stepping back like a normal sister does. He is not your son, you are not his mother. And your husband is certainly not his father nor the man of the house.

Have either of you ever spoken to a professional about your bereavement?

meoklmrk91

I cannot believe that you got down on your hands a knees and cleaned up his piss. I would have asked him to do it, if he didn't do it right the first time he would be doing it again and again until he got it right. You really need to stop enabling him, these are normal every day things, he should be able to clean. He is playing the old trick of I can't do it so that you will do it for him, I have been guilty of it myself and so has everyone I think but you either keep letting him get away with it and keep cleaning up after him and not letting him take responsibly for himself or you tell him to buck up, you have a baby coming, and things need to change, if he doesn't shower, leave him off, it's his own fault if his skin condition flares up.

Everyone knows a child that is an absolute brazen fecker when their parents around but an angel when they are gone. Why do they do this? They know they can get away with it when mammy and daddy are around and it's an easy way to get attention. This is the 19 year old version of this. If he moved into a house share he wouldn't be long bucking up because this type of thing wouldn't be had. He's only doing it because you are letting him.

Fair play to you for taking care of your brother after your Mam died, but he is an adult now and you have a baby about to arrive. So you need to start holding him to a higher standard, if he fails to meet that standard and its effecting the rest of the house then you need to call him out on it, if it doesn't then you need to leave him off.

Big Bag of Chips

You are making an awful lot of excuses. At the end of the day you are brother and sister living in your family home. I understand when your mother died and he was younger that you had to be "in charge" then. But you shouldn't feel as much need to be the leader now. He is your baby brother and neither of you can get out of that mind frame. Probably because you are both still living in your childhood home.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation. Both parents died when they were all young adults. She was the eldest girl with two younger brothers. She tried to keep the house reasonably well, but the two brothers couldn't care less about washing the kitchen floor or cleaning the bathroom. She eventually bought a house with her now husband and moved out. The "home house" is a tip.

Who owns the house? Was it left solely to you and your brother is living with you? Or was it left to all of you equally? Why don't you and your husband buy a family home of your own? That way you can remove yourself from the situation with your brother and maybe not feel the need to "mammy" him so much. He has a boyfriend. If he wants his boyfriend to stay over for 3 weeks while you and your husband are away he is entitled to. He doesn't need permission to have him over for a night or 2. If his breath smells his bf will let him know. If his skin is getting bad he will realise it himself. I have asthma. I need to take inhalers. If I don't I could end up hospitalised. I'm not very good at remembering to take them by the way. If I'm not sick I don't think to take them. My brother used to live with me for a while, not once did he tell me to take my inhalers.

You are his sister. He is becoming an adult and you are doing him no favours continuing on where your mother left off. You cannot get him to move out, especially if he owns an equal share of the house. You can offer to sell it and split the proceeds, or you can offer to buy him out, or you can move out yourself.

He has grown up in that house always having everything done for him. He doesn't know any other way. I agree with the others shouting isn't going to fix this. Talking like adults, equals living in a house share is the best option you have.

You are all adults. You have taken on the role of his mother. And while that might have been necessary a few years ago, even mothers have to let go of their adult children at some point. The time has now come for you to teach him independence. Starting with getting him to clean up his own mess. A wipe of toilet roll, and then a quick mop will soon teach him to be more careful.

He's clueless, but you are partly to blame.

December2012

How come your husband can move in and your child but his boyfriend can't stay for three weeks?

trio

I just cannot get the image out of my head of a heavily pregnant woman down on her hands and knees sopping up a grown mans piss whilst he just stands there and watches.

Christ on a bike.

UsernameDarth

UsernameDarth wrote: »

I said his boyfriend could stay one or two nights a week, .

December2012 wrote: »

How come your husband can move in and your child but his boyfriend can't stay for three weeks?

I agree.
You're not his mother and you really need to move out of this role. "Letting" a grown adult in a shared home have his boyfriend over when your husband moved in?

He doesn't clean because why would he with you mopping up after him?
Have either of you gone to any bereavement kind of counselling?

josealdo

trio wrote: »

I just cannot get the image out of my head of a heavily pregnant woman down on her hands and knees sopping up a grown mans piss whilst he just stands there and watches.

Christ on a bike.

hang on a minute . if the house belongs equally to a brother and a sister . the brother is entitled to piss on the floors if he wants .

the sister ia equally entitled to clean any piss off any floor she wants to .

i dont see the problem. really i dont .

goingitalone

newdriverlad wrote: »

Who actually owns the house?

That was my question . If the husband moved in after the mother died .and it was the mother's house if she owned it .and it's just the 2 of them siblings .I'd assume half the house is his . So I mean can throw him out then anyways if that's the situation regardless of the situation . But it's just like he hasn't grown up and just acting childish .

PucaMama

figs666 wrote: »

hang on a minute . if the house belongs equally to a brother and a sister . the brother is entitled to piss on the floors if he wants .

the sister ia equally entitled to clean any piss off any floor she wants to .

i dont see the problem. really i dont .

noone is entitled to piss all over the floor of a shared house (or any floor) thats disgusting :mad:

op, if this continues he should be asked to leave.

goingitalone

PucaMama wrote: »

noone is entitled to piss all over the floor of a shared house (or any floor) thats disgusting :mad:

op, if this continues he should be asked to leave.

Ok pissing on the floor is unacceptable .but how do you know doesn't own half the house ?

ElleEm

The OP's brother was under 18 when the mother died so the OP would likely have been given the responsibility of the home.

One of the more difficult things a parent/ gaurdian can do is make the transition to an adult to adult relationship. It really seems like this may be the case here.

PucaMama

goingitalone wrote: »

Ok pissing on the floor is unacceptable .but how do you know doesn't own half the house ?

i never said he doesnt. it doesnt matter. she owns half it too. and he is taking advantage.

newdriverlad

PucaMama wrote: »

i never said he doesnt. it doesnt matter. she owns half it too. and he is taking advantage.

If the house was split equally between the siblings. Her moving her husband in could also be considered taking advantage.

goingitalone

PucaMama wrote: »

i never said he doesnt. it doesnt matter. she owns half it too. and he is taking advantage.

But you said he Should be asked to leave .she have no right to ask that .

josealdo

goingitalone wrote: »

That was my question . If the husband moved in after the mother died .and it was the mother's house if she owned it .and it's just the 2 of them siblings .I'd assume half the house is his . So I mean can throw him out then anyways if that's the situation regardless of the situation . But it's just like he hasn't grown up and just acting childish .

maybe your the one with the problem . who asked you to mother him .

PucaMama

newdriverlad wrote: »

If the house was split equally between the siblings. Her moving her husband in could also be considered taking advantage.

no, shes married, they are a unit. same with their child. the brother is the problem. his sister has done enough for him.

PucaMama

goingitalone wrote: »

But you said he Should be asked to leave .she have no right to ask that .

his filthy habits are a risk to their babys health. she has every right to.

goingitalone

figs666 wrote: »

maybe your the one with the problem . who asked you to mother him .

Wrong person I assume cause I'm not the op nor am I mothering anyone lol

josealdo

PucaMama wrote: »

no, shes married, they are a unit. same with their child. the brother is the problem. his sister has done enough for him.

why doesnt she buy him.out of house and watch him piss it up against a wall .......or piss it all over the floor

goingitalone

PucaMama wrote: »

his filthy habits are a risk to their babys health. she has every right to.

He has every right for to ask her husband to leave too .

josealdo

goingitalone wrote: »

That was my question . If the husband moved in after the mother died .and it was the mother's house if she owned it .and it's just the 2 of them siblings .I'd assume half the house is his . So I mean can throw him out then anyways if that's the situation regardless of the situation . But it's just like he hasn't grown up and just acting childish .

maybe your the one with the problem . who asked you to mother him .

newdriverlad

PucaMama wrote: »

no, shes married, they are a unit. same with their child. the brother is the problem. his sister has done enough for him.

Why is she allowed to dictate when his(the brother) boyfriend is allowed over?.

PucaMama

goingitalone wrote: »

He has every right for to ask her husband to leave too .

no he hasnt. they are married. they are a unit.

goingitalone

PucaMama wrote: »

no he hasnt. they are married. they are a unit.

Yet you say they should ask him to leave . Your unit opinions is irrelevant if he owns half the house they can say nothing . I'm not disagee with his actions are wrong bit she needs to stop dictating too there no reason if that's the case the ops brother could ask his bf to move in either .if her husband moved in . Was my point

Arthur Beesley

PucaMama wrote: »

no he hasnt. they are married. they are a unit.

What does that even mean?

If he owns half the house he has as much right to ask the husband to leave as she has of asking him to leave.

I find it very telling that the house ownership came up indirectly and questions about ownership haven't been addressed by the OP.

PucaMama

goingitalone wrote: »

Yet you say they should ask him to leave . Your unit opinions is irrelevant if he owns half the house they can say nothing . I'm not disagee with his actions are wrong bit she needs to stop dictating too there no reason if that's the case the ops brother could ask his bf to move in either .if her husband moved in . Was my point

the op and her husband have looked after him since his mother died. and they have their child on the way. they would have every right not to want another adult moving in. the brother is not behaving like an adult, so why should he be treated as one? until he can look after himself properly and clean up after himself he should not have the option to bring his bf there. the state the two of them left the kitchen in for his sister to clean says enough.

PucaMama

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

What does that even mean?

If he owns half the house he has as much right to ask the husband to leave as she has of asking him to leave.

I find it very telling that the house ownership came up indirectly and questions about ownership haven't been addressed by the OP.

it doesnt even matter who owns the house. the behavior is disgusting. i dont see why people are ignoring that bit.

Arthur Beesley

PucaMama wrote: »

it doesnt even matter who owns the house. the behavior is disgusting. i dont see why people are ignoring that bit.

So you think that someone can be legally 'thrown out' of a house the person half owns without consequences?

PucaMama

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

So you think that someone can be legally 'thrown out' of a house the person half owns without consequences?

if one persons actions are a danger to the other persons health (peeing on the floor for example) then yes.

Arthur Beesley

PucaMama wrote: »

if one persons actions are a danger to the other persons health (peeing on the floor for example) then yes.

Don't make me laugh.

PucaMama

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Don't make me laugh.

id hate to live with someone who thinks this way :rolleyes: his behavior is so out of order. and according to you she has no right to tell him to go.

goingitalone

PucaMama wrote: »

if one persons actions are a danger to the other persons health (peeing on the floor for example) then yes.

Well it's good your opinion isn't how things are then and yout example really isn't a good example .

PucaMama

goingitalone wrote: »

Well it's good your opinion isn't how things are then and yout example really isn't a good example .

do you think not washing or cleaning up after yourself and peeing on the floor is acceptable? would it be acceptable in a house share?

goingitalone

PucaMama wrote: »

do you think not washing or cleaning up after yourself and peeing on the floor is acceptable? would it be acceptable in a house share?

I'm not disagreeing with his actions being wrong . But it still doesn't give her a right to tell him to leave

Arthur Beesley

PucaMama wrote: »

id hate to live with someone who thinks this way :rolleyes: his behavior is so out of order. and according to you she has no right to tell him to go.

I'd rather you didn't get personal, it is quite offensive, particularly given you know even less about me than you do about the OP and her brother.

The OP can tell him to go when she buys him out. End of story.

As for some urine on the floor being dangerous...hilarious.

PucaMama

goingitalone wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with his actions being wrong . But it still doesn't give her a right to tell him to leave

she has the right to live in peace too.