David Hall of IMHO tells homeowners without debt deals to stop paying mortgage

on_my_oe

Article in the Independent today; HOMEOWNERS have been advised to stop paying their mortgage – if they are prepared to give the keys back to the bank but can't get a deal on the remaining debt.

article here

Surely this comes under negligence to reduce your losses by deliberately refusing to make payment?

Meanwhile FTBs are stuck paying higher and higher rent while these folk avoid responsibility sitting in houses that should be on the market. The repossession process needs to be amended so it begins sooner (six months of arrears starting) and is completed within 9/12 months. The process takes too long and David Halls suggestion gives too much power to those in arrears. It can't be healthy for those in arrears to remain in a stressful situation - better to draw a line under it quickly so they can begin rebuilding their lives and stop strangling the market.

Tiger Mcilroy

Who does David hall think the banks will turn to when they accept that this debt wont be repaid...everybody will be hit with new and varied bank charges over the course of the next few years to cover the cost of these people that are sticking their collective heads in the sand.

Yet again personal responsibility is ignored by people that signed up to this commitment and its depressing when the indo gives people a vehicle to spout this crap.

_Kaiser_

The idea of personal responsibility in this country died with the Celtic Tiger

Now it's all someone else's fault - the banks, the estate agents, my friends and family who "pressured" me into it, the government.. anyone EXCEPT the guy/girl whose signature is on the documents

And seeing how the "bondholders" got covered, mortgage holders should get a deal too - cause 2 wrongs actually DO make a right in Ireland

Meanwhile those of us who do pay our bills and who didn't "go mad" have been left to pay the tab anyway both though higher taxation and increasingly higher rents.

Where's our deal?

lolosaur

Wait, am i meant to feel sorry for first time buyers, people in arrears or people who pay their mortgage?

It's hard to keep up these days.

_Kaiser_

lolosaur wrote: »

Wait, am i meant to feel sorry for first time buyers, people in arrears or people who pay their mortgage?

It's hard to keep up these days.

I think you're supposed to feel sorry for everyone except those who are stuck with the bill - because they're suckers who "missed out" and should have gotten on the "property ladder" when they could :rolleyes:

Shiraz 4.99

This has been the unofficial line for years, I've neighbours that have being living rent/mortgage free since 2009.
Once you mentally give up on the home what numpty would keep throwing good money after bad.
Nice to see it's now the official line.

murphaph

These IMHO **** won't be happy until no bank will lend on Irish property (look at mortgage interest rates compared to more responsible Eurozone countries to see what the effects of all this are: I can get 10 years fixed @ 2.2% here, 20 years fixed @ 3.3%!). In Germany if you don't pay your mortgage you're out. They have recently made it easier to remove non-paying tenants too, eliminating some of the legal loopholes that the rent nomads used to employ.

Getting rogue tenants out is marginally easier than defaulting mortgage holders but still takes far too long. Whole system badly broken and is a slow road to ruin.

ronjo

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

This has been the unofficial line for years, I've neighbours that have being living rent/mortgage free since 2009.
Once you mentally give up on the home what numpty would keep throwing good money after bad.
Nice to see it's now the official line.

I have seen this mentioned a few times but does anyone have an idea what sort of numbers are doing this in the country?

jay0109

ronjo wrote: »

I have seen this mentioned a few times but does anyone have an idea what sort of numbers are doing this in the country?

There's 35,000 mortgages over 720 days in arrears...they don't break them down over that, out of sheer embarrassment I'd say

No Pants

I read the article and the focus that I picked up on was to not voluntarily surrender the house. Was that not the main point?

GavMan

No Pants wrote: »

I read the article and the focus that I picked up on was to not voluntarily surrender the house. Was that not the main point?

He's saying that alright but he's also saying stop paying your mortgage as a way to leverage a debt write off from the bank. Which is of course morally wrong

Shiraz 4.99

GavMan wrote: »

He's saying that alright but he's also saying stop paying your mortgage as a way to leverage a debt write off from the bank. Which is of course morally wrong

I can't see how it's morally wrong to put your family first.
You have already given up on the home & are in the process of negotiating it's surrender.
What idiot would keep paying their mortgage when they're obviously in distress in the first place & due to lose their home ?.

Personally I would use the limbo period to build up a nest egg to pay for the rent deposit on our next home & make sure all the family's needs are met, the bank can swing for their share.

michael999999

It seem that David Hall likes to be the center of attention. And hell spout a lot of crap to enable that.

And he was Brian Lenihans best friend!

_Kaiser_

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

I can't see how it's morally wrong to put your family first.
You have already given up on the home & are in the process of negotiating it's surrender.
What idiot would keep paying their mortgage when they're obviously in distress in the first place & due to lose their home ?.

Personally I would use the limbo period to build up a nest egg to pay for the rent deposit on our next home & make sure all the family's needs are met, the bank can swing for their share.

And that is exactly the problem..

Tell me, who then should pay the mortgage in that case, because it doesn't just disappear you know! It's clawed back through higher fees and charges that other customers will have to pay. If enough people take the same line, the bank requires another "bailout" and we ALL pay!

Your (not you personally) debt is your debt - not mine, not anyone else's! If I'm having problems paying my bills this month, are you going to give me some of that nest egg to cover it because that's what you're suggesting everyone else should do.

People like this should not only have been refused mortgages in the first place, they should be turfed out and barred from ever getting one again.

I am sick to my teeth of the entitlement culture in this country. You get all the usual suspects complaining about welfare recipients, but yet it's somehow different when there's a mortgage involved and not only should we feel sorry for them, we should pay it for them too!

Shiraz 4.99

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

People like this should not only have been refused mortgages in the first place, they should be turfed out and barred from ever getting one again.

This is Ireland so nothing to stop them buying the house in the wife's name for half the price, assuming she's a half decent income.

_Kaiser_

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

This is Ireland so nothing to stop them buying the house in the wife's name for half the price, assuming she's a half decent income.

Unless of course she's also named on the mortgage and/or seen as a "stakeholder" in the original property in which case the same rules apply.

There's far too much of this entitlement culture and attempts to "work-around" things in this country.

goat2

on_my_oe wrote: »

Article in the Independent today; HOMEOWNERS have been advised to stop paying their mortgage – if they are prepared to give the keys back to the bank but can't get a deal on the remaining debt.

article here

Surely this comes under negligence to reduce your losses by deliberately refusing to make payment?

Meanwhile FTBs are stuck paying higher and higher rent while these folk avoid responsibility sitting in houses that should be on the market. The repossession process needs to be amended so it begins sooner (six months of arrears starting) and is completed within 9/12 months. The process takes too long and David Halls suggestion gives too much power to those in arrears. It can't be healthy for those in arrears to remain in a stressful situation - better to draw a line under it quickly so they can begin rebuilding their lives and stop strangling the market.

He claimed banks were offering to pay for people to have their furniture moved out, but would not offer deals on the debt still owed when a property was voluntarily surrendered. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/dont-pay-mortgage-without-debt-deal-says-imho-head-30363173.html#sthash.W3ZagKhP.dpuf

i agree with what he is proposing, it is better to get part paid than none at all,
by paying what the homeowner can afford until their circumstances improve is better than just tossing them out and leaving them homeless, we have enough homeless people and not enough accommodation,
these people borrowed with good intentions of paying back in full on time, but with what has been happening in past few yrs, people losing jobs, higher cost of living, less wages, more taxes, it is hard for ordinary people to keep their heads above water,
since they would be able to pay back less on a monthly basis, better get back some than none at all, and keep people in their homes and eventually they will get paid back, but not on a short scale, but long term, it will do all good, keep the cash flowing, the horror people are going through is terrible.

_Kaiser_

goat2 wrote: »

He claimed banks were offering to pay for people to have their furniture moved out, but would not offer deals on the debt still owed when a property was voluntarily surrendered. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/dont-pay-mortgage-without-debt-deal-says-imho-head-30363173.html#sthash.W3ZagKhP.dpuf

i agree with what he is proposing, it is better to get part paid than none at all,
by paying what the homeowner can afford until their circumstances improve is better than just tossing them out and leaving them homeless, we have enough homeless people and not enough accommodation,
these people borrowed with good intentions of paying back in full on time, but with what has been happening in past few yrs, people losing jobs, higher cost of living, less wages, more taxes, it is hard for ordinary people to keep their heads above water,
since they would be able to pay back less on a monthly basis, better get back some than none at all, and keep people in their homes and eventually they will get paid back, but not on a short scale, but long term, it will do all good, keep the cash flowing, the horror people are going through is terrible.

And why exactly should they be allowed to stay in a property they can't afford?

If I can't pay my rent this month, or only "part" of it, do you think my landlord will be ok with that, or do you think I'll be given my notice and told to go find somewhere else to live?

We are seeing a massive rise in rents AND house prices in Dublin, partly because of these people who either can't or won't pay the debts they signed up to.

Just to be clear - eviction does NOT equal homelessness. There's a huge rental market out there, and especially outside Dublin.

The obsession with owning property in this country and the privileged status some think they should get as as result is getting beyond ridiculous at this stage!

bluesteel

This line from David Hall makes me sick - just for information he is a director of several companies -

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/1217/1224309205434.html

The Golden Horseshoe Limited
Fitzwilliam Card Club Limited
Fitzwilliam Casino Limited
New Beginning Concepts Limited
Gandon Hall Management Company Limited

Aside from the hilarity of a Casino Owner/Director not wanting people to pay their loans he's almost certainly a Landlord of a Buy to Let apartment in Lower Gardiner Street, Dublin 1. Does he encourage his (probably immigrant) tenants to continue to stay in his rental property if they can't afford? The answer would be no.

His twitter is @davidhall75 if you wish to make your feelings known to him.