Ireland's oil and gas

bear1

For years now I have been hearing how we have an extremely large amount of oil and gas only to hear that we actually don't have that much.
Now today a new story comes out that oil firms are going to spend about 1.5 billion on searching for the precious commodities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/oil-and-gas-explorers-to-spend-15bn-despite-low-success-rates-30356536.html

However the success rate is low. Seems odd considering we are supposed to have billions of barrels of oil.
If there will be a huge oil find, what are some of the benefits we are likely to see?
Jobs are a given but lower fuel prices? Increased wealth for the population?
Do we have the infrastructure to support such a new sector?
I also believe the government should review their taxing policy on this sector and adopt the Norwegian method which protects us all and gives the country the most amount of capital.
So AH, do you think we have what it takes to exploit this possibly ground breaking sector?

Tabnabs

bear1 wrote: »

For years now I have been hearing how we have an extremely large amount of oil and gas only to hear that we actually don't have that much.
Now today a new story comes out that oil firms are going to spend about 1.5 billion on searching for the precious commodities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/oil-and-gas-explorers-to-spend-15bn-despite-low-success-rates-30356536.html

However the success rate is low. Seems odd considering we are supposed to have billions of barrels of oil.
If there will be a huge oil find, what are some of the benefits we are likely to see?
Jobs are a given but lower fuel prices? Increased wealth for the population?
Do we have the infrastructure to support such a new sector?
I also believe the government should review their taxing policy on this sector and adopt the Norwegian method which protects us all and gives the country the most amount of capital.
So AH, do you think we have what it takes to exploit this possible ground breaking sector?

In Norway, one in four drills resulted in a find, in Ireland four decades have yielded two finds. Yes, more taxes...

Aberdeen was a small fishing village before the North Sea oil boom, today:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/773d53e6-cb61-11e2-b1c8-00144feab7de.html

c_man

I'm fairly skeptical about oil and gas off the west coast claims. Mainly because I've been hearing them since I was in Junior Cert, and yet I'm still not loaded

kneemos

As far as I can see it's just something for the left to whinge about not being taxed properly despite not not a drop of the stuff coming ashore.

bear1

Tabnabs wrote: »

In Norway, one in four drills resulted in a find, in Ireland four decades have yielded two finds. Yes, more taxes...

Aberdeen was a small fishing village before the North Sea oil boom, today:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/773d53e6-cb61-11e2-b1c8-00144feab7de.html

What I meant was that our licensing laws regarding this are too loose.
In Norway they keep most of the revenue (I'm not sure on the total amount) extracted from the ground whereas in Ireland the plans are that the Government will sell the oil and gas and keep a small percentage of the revenue. Hence, the firms are free to do with the oil/gas as they wish.
I believe I head Pat Rabbitte as saying he doesn't want that to happen as then the oil or gas wouldn't even have to touch Ireland and could be refined elsewhere.
In Norway it isn't the case.

http://irishoilandgas.wordpress.com/2014/03/11/rabbitte-woodmac/#more-585

Rhys Essien

It wont make a blind bit of difference to us.Irelands current debt is €179 billion and counting.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

bear1

Rhys Essien wrote: »

It wont make a blind bit of difference to us.Irelands current debt is €179 billion and counting.

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

Nah it's ok, I paid my credit card in full this month so that should come down

SEPT 23 1989

Have they tried praying to St Anthony?

bear1

^^ Nearly spat my coffee out at that one

Menas

There are known oil and gas fields off ireland, porkupine basin for eg.

The issue has been that they are inaccessible until recently. Technology now allows us to extract oil and gas from deep sea.
But the lead time from discovery, to site evaluation to commercial extraction is very long, up to 4 years I think.

The issue is then where to refine and store what you extract. Ireland has no such facilities at the moment.

Regarding the tax, the system is fit for purpose for me. Comparing us to Norway or other oil rich countries is not realistic. You can kick the dirt there and find oil (exaggeration). I think I heard that €6 billion had been spent by various companies searching for oil/gas off Ireland over the last 3 decades. And not one commercial drop has been extracted yet.
That is not much of an incentive. So the only current incentive is that we make it tax advantagous to search and extract oil/gas. What we do is similar to other countries that are similar to Ireland.

My idea would be that as soon as it looks likely that we can extract commercial oil/gas off the south of cork then we should build a state operated refining facility in Cork in some sort of private public partnership.
Lot of jobs and guaranteed money maker.
Leaving it to the private sector to do this could mean that it never gets built and we ship it all over to the UK where they do it for us.

Tabnabs

bear1 wrote: »

What I meant was that our licensing laws regarding this are too loose.
In Norway they keep most of the revenue (I'm not sure on the total amount) extracted from the ground whereas in Ireland the plans are that the Government will sell the oil and gas and keep a small percentage of the revenue. Hence, the firms are free to do with the oil/gas as they wish.
I believe I head Pat Rabbitte as saying he doesn't want that to happen as then the oil or gas wouldn't even have to touch Ireland and could be refined elsewhere.
In Norway it isn't the case.

http://irishoilandgas.wordpress.com/2014/03/11/rabbitte-woodmac/#more-585

There's sod all oil and gas out there, if there was we'd be in a very different position. In Norway, it was such a safe bet that the State set up its own oil company. Their massive industry was built on the back of this. Do you support the Irish State doing the same?

bear1

Trigger Happy wrote: »

There are known oil and gas fields off ireland, porkupine basin for eg.

The issue has been that they are inaccessible until recently. Technology now allows us to extract oil and gas from deep sea.
But the lead time from discovery, to site evaluation to commercial extraction is very long, up to 4 years I think.

The issue is then where to refine and store what you extract. Ireland has no such facilities at the moment.

Regarding the tax, the system is fit for purpose for me. Comparing us to Norway or other oil rich countries is not realistic. You can kick the dirt there and find oil (exaggeration). I think I heard that €6 billion had been spent by various companies searching for oil/gas off Ireland over the last 3 decades. And not one commercial drop has been extracted yet.
That is not much of an incentive. So the only current incentive is that we make it tax advantagous to search and extract oil/gas. What we do is similar to other countries that are similar to Ireland.

My idea would be that as soon as it looks likely that we can extract commercial oil/gas off the south of cork then we should build a state operated refining facility in Cork in some sort of private public partnership.
Lot of jobs and guaranteed money maker.
Leaving it to the private sector to do this could mean that it never gets built and we ship it all over to the UK where they do it for us.

Well put and thought-out. Hadn't viewed it in this way.
I chose Norway as it is the best European example I could think of as I believe the Irish reserves would be higher than the North Seas reserves? Might be wrong.
In the article I posted, the writer made a good point when he/she said that the best would be to increase the tax on any discovery depending on the size.
The greater the find the more the Government collects.

Tabnabs wrote: »

There's sod all oil and gas out there, if there was we'd be in a very different position. In Norway, it was such a safe bet that the State set up its own oil company. Their massive industry was built on the back of this. Do you support the Irish State doing the same?

I'd have to disagree with your first sentence, it's out there but as Trigger said not easy to get to.
If the Irish State can do it properly and fairly and tips in our favour then why not.

Rhys Essien

Trigger Happy wrote: »

There are known oil and gas fields off ireland, porkupine basin for eg.

The issue has been that they are inaccessible until recently. Technology now allows us to extract oil and gas from deep sea.
But the lead time from discovery, to site evaluation to commercial extraction is very long, up to 4 years I think.

The issue is then where to refine and store what you extract. Ireland has no such facilities at the moment.

Regarding the tax, the system is fit for purpose for me. Comparing us to Norway or other oil rich countries is not realistic. You can kick the dirt there and find oil (exaggeration). I think I heard that €6 billion had been spent by various companies searching for oil/gas off Ireland over the last 3 decades. And not one commercial drop has been extracted yet.
That is not much of an incentive. So the only current incentive is that we make it tax advantagous to search and extract oil/gas. What we do is similar to other countries that are similar to Ireland.

My idea would be that as soon as it looks likely that we can extract commercial oil/gas off the south of cork then we should build a state operated refining facility in Cork in some sort of private public partnership.
Lot of jobs and guaranteed money maker.
Leaving it to the private sector to do this could mean that it never gets built and we ship it all over to the UK where they do it for us.

What rock are you hiding under?.We already have a refinery in Cork.The only one in Ireland.

andrew

Even if there is Oil and Gas there, the Shell to Sea campaign hasn't exactly encouraged oil companies to set up here.

bear1

Rhys Essien wrote: »

What rock are you hiding under?.We already have a refinery in Cork.The only one in Ireland.

That isn't state owned though?

gramar

You'll get fcuk all from Rockall!

Rhys Essien

bear1 wrote: »

That isn't state owned though?

It was till 2001 and the current owners were trying to sell it but cant find a buyer.They are obliged to run it till mid 2016 and after that who knows.

Good time for the Government to take it back??

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/phillips-66-pulls-out-of-sale-of-whitegate-oil-30180093.html

Menas

Rhys Essien wrote: »

What rock are you hiding under?.We already have a refinery in Cork.The only one in Ireland.

Whitegate is not capable of handling this, that site will be mothballed in a few years I reckon.
It needs major upgrading just to get it fit for purpose and no prospective owners or current owners are willing to fund that.
This is why Philps 66 could not sell it.

But yes, I did not mention it in my original post.

micosoft

bear1 wrote: »

Well put and thought-out. Hadn't viewed it in this way.
I chose Norway as it is the best European example I could think of as I believe the Irish reserves would be higher than the North Seas reserves? Might be wrong.
In the article I posted, the writer made a good point when he/she said that the best would be to increase the tax on any discovery depending on the size.
The greater the find the more the Government collects.



I'd have to disagree with your first sentence, it's out there but as Trigger said not easy to get to.
If the Irish State can do it properly and fairly and tips in our favour then why not.

Where do we get the many billions to drill test wells? It costs 100 million per well. What happens if we spend 10 billion setting up Irish Oil and a further 20 billion drilling holes. And we strike no oil. What then?

This has been done to death. The reason that Irish drilling rights are comparatively more generous is because the chances of striking oil are so very very low. Therefore the private oil companies are taking the risk and not the taxpayer. It's obvious that our generous terms are not attracting many oil companies with many licences just being handed back. In Norway if you don't strike oil, the Norwegian will refund you most of the cost (actually putting lie to the idea our terms are generous).

Technology may be improving for offshore but onshore technology improvements (fracking) means it's much cheaper to get oil on land then risky expensive oil rigs in the middle of the Atlantic. Of course - fracking won't happen here but it is in the US. We will continue to rely on risky and expensive middle eastern and Russian oil and gas.

TBH we could give it away for free (and we aren't) and we would still struggle. The evidence is simple. Where is all this 400 quadrillion worth of Oil and Gas flowing? The only attempt in the last TWO DECADES at a commercial well at the Corrib is an unmitigated disaster as the same people spreading lies about the our invisible oil being stolen have made it nearly impossible to bring one gas pipeline on stream. Which is sobering when you think that Russia is cutting the Gas off from Ukraine.

YFlyer

bear1 wrote: »

For years now I have been hearing how we have an extremely large amount of oil and gas only to hear that we actually don't have that much.
Now today a new story comes out that oil firms are going to spend about 1.5 billion on searching for the precious commodities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/oil-and-gas-explorers-to-spend-15bn-despite-low-success-rates-30356536.html

However the success rate is low. Seems odd considering we are supposed to have billions of barrels of oil.
If there will be a huge oil find, what are some of the benefits we are likely to see?
Jobs are a given but lower fuel prices? Increased wealth for the population?
Do we have the infrastructure to support such a new sector?
I also believe the government should review their taxing policy on this sector and adopt the Norwegian method which protects us all and gives the country the most amount of capital.
So AH, do you think we have what it takes to exploit this possibly ground breaking sector?

According to 2012 articles it was estimated that the South Porcupine Basin has up to 1 billion barrels of oil.

However according to London stockbroker Northland Capital described Petrel's comments as "very bullish" but warned that drilling in these waters would be difficult and costly.

bear1

micosoft wrote: »

Where do we get the many billions to drill test wells? It costs 100 million per well. What happens if we spend 10 billion setting up Irish Oil and a further 20 billion drilling holes. And we strike no oil. What then?

This has been done to death. The reason that Irish drilling rights are comparatively more generous is because the chances of striking oil are so very very low. Therefore the private oil companies are taking the risk and not the taxpayer. It's obvious that our generous terms are not attracting many oil companies with many licences just being handed back. In Norway if you don't strike oil, the Norwegian will refund you most of the cost (actually putting lie to the idea our terms are generous).

Technology may be improving for offshore but onshore technology improvements (fracking) means it's much cheaper to get oil on land then risky expensive oil rigs in the middle of the Atlantic. Of course - fracking won't happen here but it is in the US. We will continue to rely on risky and expensive middle eastern and Russian oil and gas.

TBH we could give it away for free (and we aren't) and we would still struggle. The evidence is simple. Where is all this 400 quadrillion worth of Oil and Gas flowing? The only attempt in the last TWO DECADES at a commercial well at the Corrib is an unmitigated disaster as the same people spreading lies about the our invisible oil being stolen have made it nearly impossible to bring one gas pipeline on stream. Which is sobering when you think that Russia is cutting the Gas off from Ukraine.

Again, very good point. I'm trying to educate myself more on the subject hence I only know so much.
Thanks for the additional input.

The Diabolical Monocle

bear1 wrote: »

For years now I have been hearing how we have an extremely large amount of oil and gas only to hear that we actually don't have that much.
Now today a new story comes out that oil firms are going to spend about 1.5 billion on searching for the precious commodities.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/oil-and-gas-explorers-to-spend-15bn-despite-low-success-rates-30356536.html

However the success rate is low. Seems odd considering we are supposed to have billions of barrels of oil.
If there will be a huge oil find, what are some of the benefits we are likely to see?
Jobs are a given but lower fuel prices? Increased wealth for the population?
Do we have the infrastructure to support such a new sector?
I also believe the government should review their taxing policy on this sector and adopt the Norwegian method which protects us all and gives the country the most amount of capital.
So AH, do you think we have what it takes to exploit this possibly ground breaking sector?

Uncertain.

However I can tell you with 100% certainty that if oil is indeed found in Ireland you should immediately invest in electric cars.

The rule is that if Ireland ever has any luck then something must go wrong to immediately counter this luck.

So if we find 100 billion of oil the petrol motor will become obsolete overnight and make our oil worthless.

Some things are just not meant to be. (VSTG*)

bear1

A bit like that Family Guy episode that shows what Ireland would have been like if alcohol had never been invented

Awkward Badger

Gas is never going to be a big money maker for Ireland. Not until they figure out a way to harvest the methane from peoples farts.

bear1

Interesting development

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0618/624678-oil-and-gas-exploration/