A stark reminder to slow down in housing estates

seamus

The nights are getting longer, we're getting into finer weather and we're two weeks away from the primary schools ending. There will be kids out playing in the streets from dawn till dusk, running in and out behind parked cars, playing football and generally doing what kids do and should be doing.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/boy-6-dies-after-being-knocked-down-633279.html

It can absolutely happen to anyone and for the sake of the 100m it takes to get to the end of your street, you can afford to roll out at 20km/h rather than 40 or 50km/h. The difference to you is a loss of ten seconds, but what's ten seconds? Btw, I'm not saying this woman has done anything wrong, just using this tragedy as a reminder of what can and does happen to anyone in the blink of an eye.
A child 2 or 3 feet tall you will not see standing behind a parked car and when you're driving half a metre from the parked car, they can run out from behind it and in front of your car before you can even react. What will determine the difference between life and death is not your ability to react, but the speed you hit them at.

You can wax lyrical about parental supervision, shouldn't be playing on the road, blah blah blah, but when you're faced with a broken child lying on the tarmac in front of your car, all you will think about is how you would give absolutely everything to turn back time ten seconds so you could do things differently.

Leaving or arriving from the house is when you're most distracted; you're setting your mirrors, changing your radio station, adjusting your seat, getting your house keys out, whatever. These things can wait till you're stopped or on the main road. It's on narrow residential streets lined with parked cars that you have the biggest potential to ruin so many lives, and it requires all of your focus.

AndyBoBandy

Absolutely.

on clear evenings, it'll be bright up to and beyond 11pm!

and they will be out running around.

ianobrien

I totally agree that we should all slow down in housing estates. Generally if you see a ball cross the road it's time to hit the brakes as there probably will be a child following after it. It's something I'm always wary of.

I believe that the gatzo vans should be deployed around housing estates and near schools at opening and closing times. I totally disagree with the current policy of Gatzo van placement and firmly believe that they should be in housing estates on fine evenings when people are coming home from work.

Dangel4x4

ianobrien wrote: »

I believe that the gatzo vans should be deployed around housing estates and near schools at opening and closing times. I totally disagree with the current policy of Gatzo van placement and firmly believe that they should be in housing estates on fine evenings when people are coming home from work.

The problem is that people drive like r-soles. I don't know how many times I've seen people drive *around* a crossing guard in the middle of the road with a high vis coat and a sign.

When you're dealing with that kind of stupidity and disregard for others, speed cameras are useless.

Jesus.

Any housing estates I'm in you can't go above 20mph anyway with the proliferation of speed ramps. My brain is almost shook out of its socket by constantly driving over them for the last few years.

allthedoyles

His devastated mother Roseann today told the Herald about the moment her son was hit as he played with friends on their estate in Kilkenny.

He said to me, ‘Mammy I don’t want to die’,” she added, fighting back tears.
“I could see his little eyes and they were gone.”

Ms Brennan was holding Jake’s four-month- old sister Savannah at the time of the collision.
“ I just heard a bang, I heard something quick and then bang. I looked up and I saw my baby go up in the air, he went up and he hit the bonnet and went under,” she said.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/he-said-to-me-mammy-i-dont-want-to-die-30351449.html

visual

To knock the child in the air would indicate speed and I'm just sick of seeing comments about poor driver and careless mother.

Im.all for progressive driving but there is a place for going quicker and housing estate isn't one.

markpb

visual wrote: »

To knock the child in the air would indicate speed.

Not necessarily. A child doesn't weigh much compared to a standard car. Any speed at all could send them flying. It's more about speed limiting your observation and reaction times than the force of the impact.

No Pants

I don't get it out of 1st gear until I've left the cul-de-sac. Coming back, I take the corner in second, dropping to 1st once the wheels straighten. There are loads of kids around and they use the road as a playground.

robertxxx

Look at F1 for a rough comparison, fast (180mph+) on the straights, (60mph) in the pits where people are......who can get hurt!!!!!!

Please people cop on, SEE THE DANGERS, ADJUST YOUR DRIVING, LIFE IS THE MOST VALUABLE THING ON THIS PLANET.

challengemaster

visual wrote: »

To knock the child in the air would indicate speed and I'm just sick of seeing comments about poor driver and careless mother.

It's highly unlikely in the 35m the car travelled from standstill it was speeding.

robertxxx

challengemaster wrote: »

It's highly unlikely in the 35m the car travelled from standstill it was speeding.

Not if she's leaving the house in a rage and floors the thing! Easy.

blindside88

Its a terrible incident and I really feel for everyone involved but we dont know that speed was a factor, the child may have run right infront of the car. I think the way the mother has described it may be a little exaggerated due to her grief (understandably). I don't think the child could have went up in the air up on the bonnet and then under the car.

Del2005

Dangel4x4 wrote: »

The problem is that people drive like r-soles. I don't know how many times I've seen people drive *around* a crossing guard in the middle of the road with a high vis coat and a sign.

That's why we need to have the cameras on the crossing guards like in some other countries or even better a few Gardaí permanently tasked with schools and the complete lack of safety around then, both by motorists and peds, they'd pay for themselves multiple times even giving warnings for a 1st offence.

Dangel4x4 wrote: »

When you're dealing with that kind of stupidity and disregard for others, speed cameras are useless.

If you loose your licence when driving out of your home you'll soon learn. But we do need to have speed enforcement in built up areas and copy the US system of double penalty during school hours (around schools only).

Iwannahurl

If Google Maps and that Independent photo are anything to go by then this is the location of the tragic incident.

My first impression was that the child was knocked down on an arterial route. According to the RSA speeding continues to be a problem on such roads.

However, newspaper reports indicate that the incident occurred on a cul-de-sac lane inside a housing estate.

Iwannahurl

Jesus. wrote: »

Any housing estates I'm in you can't go above 20mph anyway with the proliferation of speed ramps. My brain is almost shook out of its socket by constantly driving over them for the last few years.

You're lucky. I'm frequently on edge because of the way motorists go round a blind corner in our estate. The street is teeming with kids in fine weather, as is to be expected in any normal society. They're running, skating, cycling, chasing, playing football, all the usual stuff.

The speed limit is 50 km/h and the local residents have been trying to get traffic calming for at least eight years.

It's bad enough worrying about other people's children, but if anything happened to my kids I would probably go out of my mind.

Supergurrier

Wrong place wrong time
Even at 30mph there would be no time to react to a kid running out in front of you with no warning. This is why you need to watch your kids all a driver can do is watch their speedo and the road.

We can't all go 5mph because what if. Road safety is everyone's responsibility including pedestrians.

robertxxx

Supergurrier wrote: »

We can't all go 5mph because what if. Road safety is everyone's responsibility including pedestrians.

Wrong, the driver has the wepon, all areas with kids and know areas with kids have (in my mind) have to have a matching speed limit, ie;10kmph......f'ing simple.

Dangel4x4

Del2005 wrote: »

wor even better a few Gardaí permanently tasked with schools and the complete lack of safety around then, both by motorists and peds, they'd pay for themselves multiple times even giving warnings for a 1st offence.

Not a hope. You can barely get the Gardai to come out when you call 999.

Where my kids go to school the local Garda station is open one morning a week. Unfortunately the resources for what you're suggesting don't exist.

Jesus.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

You're lucky.

Its not the way I feel. The urban areas have been overrun with those bloody things. I had a cousin over from Scotland recently and they couldn't believe it. They're even on regional / local roads where I live. I never thought I'd see the day when a pretty main Country-type road would be filled with fecking speed ramps. Maybe its just where I'm living but its gotten ridiculous.

I was driving through Ballymun the other day toward Glasnevin and the lorry in front of me had to slow down to a crawl every time he came to one and the noise it made what with his hoisting equipment in the back, was deafening. Its gone past a joke now. Then you go to other Countires and you don't come across a single one! But as usual, the Irish Motorist laps up whatever the Government spins down to them.

Its a shame

Supergurrier

robertxxx wrote: »

Wrong, the driver has the wepon, all areas with kids and know areas with kids have (in my mind) have to have a matching speed limit, ie;10kmph......f'ing simple.

Its not a weapon. They are merely ordinary people going about their ordinary day all within the speed limit faced with extraordinary circumstances.

That's like saying a bottle of water is a weapon because a person can drown in two inches of water

robertxxx

Supergurrier wrote: »

Its not a weapon. They are merely ordinary people going about their ordinary day all within the speed limit faced with extraordinary circumstances.

That's like saying a bottle of water is a weapon because a person can drown in two inches of water

For real!
Yes in a ton or more vehicle.
Yes you can drown in an inche of water.

I pray and hope you haven't got a licence.

Are you in your early twenty's?

Nib

robertxxx wrote: »

Are you in your early twenty's?

What's that got to do with anything?

Keep your kids off the bloody road and they'll be fine. It's always someone else's fault with some people.

Supergurrier

robertxxx wrote: »

For real!
Yes in a ton or more vehicle.
Yes you can drown in an inche of water.

I pray and hope you haven't got a licence.

Are you in your early twenty's?

Yes im an Athiest diesel driver and i like doing wheelies in housing estates.

/serious hat on

My license is probably cleaner than yours and like i said what happenned to that driver could have happenned to ANYONE.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that and shurre isn't it turrible.

Jesus.

robertxxx wrote: »

For real!Yes in a ton or more vehicle.Yes you can drown in an inche of water.I pray and hope you haven't got a licence. Are you in your early twenty's?

May I ask why?

robertxxx

Nib wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything?

Keep your kids off the bloody road and they'll be fine. It's always someone else's fault with some people.

Your in your twenty's with that attitude, THATS why your insurance is loaded.

When I was in my early twenty's I was a mature man.........not.
Know what I mean?? Think about it.

Nib

robertxxx wrote: »

Your in your twenty's with that attitude, THATS why your insurance is loaded.

When I was in my early twenty's I was a mature man.........not.
Know what I mean?? Think about it.

Go to bed.

You're embarrassing yourself.

Supergurrier

robertxxx wrote: »

Your in your twenty's with that attitude, THATS why your insurance is loaded.

When I was in my early twenty's I was a mature man.........not.
Know what I mean?? Think about it.

Im in my early thirties.
I have 7 years NCB
Full license
My license has never had points on it in my years driving.
I pay 470e a year for insurance on a relatively powerful car.

But thank god you don't have to meet me on the roads, right ?

...

cerastes

Supergurrier wrote: »

Wrong place wrong time
Even at 30mph there would be no time to react to a kid running out in front of you with no warning. This is why you need to watch your kids all a driver can do is watch their speedo and the road.

We can't all go 5mph because what if. Road safety is everyone's responsibility including pedestrians.

Tosh, people shouldnt be speeding in estates, end of, 30mph is too fast in an estate anyway, and you do drive slow in an estate because what if, what if a child ran out after their ball as it rolled off a green or drive, who has some right to run them over? no one. Sick of it, I replied on a similar thread some time back about the same thing, this was when there were a number of closely occuring road deaths of children around a period of a few years. It's completely ignorant and dangerous to be driving at speed or without care in an estate.

Jesus. wrote: »

Its not the way I feel. The urban areas have been overrun with those bloody things. I had a cousin over from Scotland recently and they couldn't believe it. They're even on regional / local roads where I live. I never thought I'd see the day when a pretty main Country-type road would be filled with fecking speed ramps. Maybe its just where I'm living but its gotten ridiculous.

I was driving through Ballymun the other day toward Glasnevin and the lorry in front of me had to slow down to a crawl every time he came to one and the noise it made what with his hoisting equipment in the back, was deafening. Its gone past a joke now. Then you go to other Countires and you don't come across a single one! But as usual, the Irish Motorist laps up whatever the Government spins down to them.

Its a shame

Its a shame when roads have to be covered in ramps, I hate them too, but I can manage to pay heed to where there are children about. Unfortunately there are an army of idiots that cannot and will not slow down in estates, so these things are put in place.

Nib wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything?

Keep your kids off the bloody road and they'll be fine. It's always someone else's fault with some people.

Like people speeding in estates, I drive slow till I get out of the estate, because I know there are loads of cars parked where children can come out without knowing or checking, it loses the driver very little time to drive with caution, but its a massive thing to end a persons life or inflict a major injury they will suffer for the rest of their life with, because the driver needs to get on with their life, late for work? coffee whatever, completely selfish, but that suits driving style and a lot of other things about this country.

At speed, with cars blocking view nearer to the driver, reduces the reaction time and stopping distance/time, is it worth hitting someones child??? No, leave earlier and drive easy at least until you're away from where children are, above all other pedestrians they know the least or are less likely to be thinking about it.
No one has a right to plough down the road and be damned with everyone else, because they are in some hurry.

robertxxx

Jesus. wrote: »

May I ask why?

With your previous answer that's why.

The road is a place to get from A to B safely ( for all road users ) and not a race track just because you've got a car and insurance and have seen the uncut version of ronin.

Peoples lives are at risk.

The other asshole$ on here are blaming Children ( 6 year old ) for not upholding "their" part of the rules of the road and in turn getting knocked down.. F'ing wanker$

Supergurrier

cerastes wrote: »

Tosh, people shouldnt be speeding in estates, end of. Sick of it, I replied on a similar thread some time back about the same thing, It's completely ignorant and dangerous to be driving at speed or without care in an estate.

Was the driver confirmed as speeding ?

Cars driving 20/30mph can't magically stop on a penny.

A child died tragically but without all the facts (and not just tabloid sensationalism) i don't see how people automatically blame the driver moreso than anyone else involved.

Nib

robertxxx wrote: »

With your previous answer that's why.

The road is a place to get from A to B safely ( for all road users ) and not a race track just because you've got a car and insurance and have seen the uncut version of ronin.

Peoples lives are at risk.

The other asshole$ on here are blaming Children ( 6 year old ) for not upholding "their" part of the rules of the road and in turn getting knocked down.. F'ing wanker$

Won't somebody please think of the children!

Get a grip. Nobody's blaming the kids, it's their parents. What sort of irresponsible fool lets their kids play on a road?

duckysauce

Nib wrote: »

Won't somebody please think of the children!

Get a grip. Nobody's blaming the kids, it's their parents. What sort of irresponsible fool lets their kids play on a road?

that's sad

bmm

The worst speeder in our estate has small kids of his own . Very annoying!

ProudDUB

Jesus. wrote: »

Its not the way I feel. The urban areas have been overrun with those bloody things. I had a cousin over from Scotland recently and they couldn't believe it. They're even on regional / local roads where I live. I never thought I'd see the day when a pretty main Country-type road would be filled with fecking speed ramps. Maybe its just where I'm living but its gotten ridiculous.

I was driving through Ballymun the other day toward Glasnevin and the lorry in front of me had to slow down to a crawl every time he came to one and the noise it made what with his hoisting equipment in the back, was deafening. Its gone past a joke now. Then you go to other Countires and you don't come across a single one! But as usual, the Irish Motorist laps up whatever the Government spins down to them.

Its a shame

I don't know what part of Glasnevin/Ballymun you are referring to, but I grew up in the general area. Joy riding was common place when I was a teenager. That was one of the main reasons why so many speed ramps were installed. I have no idea if it is still a major problem in the area, but it certainly was back in the day. I can remember lying in bed at night and listening to the sound of the little scrotes race their Subaru's around God knows where & causing God knows chaos and carnage. The speed bumps put a stop to that. So its not always about the Government going over board for no reason.

Another thing I would love to see people have a think about is where they park in their housing estates. I see people parking on corners in mine, all the damm time. It drives me nuts, especially when you see so many kids flying around corners on their bikes at this time of year. Thanks to the tossers who insist on parking their cars directly on a corner, you only get to see the kids at the very last minute.

Jesus.

cerastes wrote: »

30mph is too fast in an estate anyway

That's just nonsense. There are plenty of main roads up through estates where 30mph is perfectly acceptable.

cerastes wrote: »

Its a shame when roads have to be covered in ramps, I hate them too, but I can manage to pay heed to where there are children about. Unfortunately there are an army of idiots that cannot and will not slow down in estates, so these things are put in place.

But they don't have to be. That's nonsense too. If that were the case, wouldn't every other place in Europe be covered with the things aswell? And its not just in estates they are. They're out on regional roads too. You're using the logic that if a tiny amount of people decide to act the bollox then everyone should be punished. This does not happen in similar Countries anywhere near the extent it does here. Instead of taking responsibility, you just roll over and allow the Nanny State to rule every area of your life.

That's no way for a free people to be governed.

cerastes

Supergurrier wrote: »

Was the driver confirmed as speeding ?

Cars driving 20/30mph can't magically stop on a penny.

A child died tragically but without all the facts (and not just tabloid sensationalism) i don't see how people automatically blame the driver moreso than anyone else involved.

I can and do go slow, probably max 2nd gear till I exit the estate, wheres 20 coming from, it was 30 previously. Both of which are too fast in an estate, ie a cul de sac or any part of an estate that isnt leading anywhere other than housing.
I can manage a significantly lower speed and its not taking me much longer to get onto the road outside the estate, but Im paying massive care to the time and when children might be on the road.
I understood the limit is 30kmh, but that doesnt mean people should do that speed, I think it should be less, 20kmh.
I cant believe but reallly I shouldnt be suprised people are defending this.

Supergurrier

bmm wrote: »

The worst speeder in our estate has small kids of his own . Very annoying!

Get afew locals to knock on his door or just report him.

Problems like these can only be sorted out on a local level if everyone looks at it from as many angles as possible.

Petition for speedbumps/signage.
Encourage kids to not play on the roads/petition for a green area/small playground.
Kick the ****e out of people who blatantly speed in the estate.

Ya know, positive action.

Jesus.

robertxxx wrote: »

With your previous answer that's why.The road is a place to get from A to B safely ( for all road users ) and not a race track just because you've got a car and insurance and have seen the uncut version of ronin.

Good Lord preserve us all. What on earth are you talking about? Who said anything about driving as if you're on a race track?

robertxxx

Nib wrote: »

Won't somebody please think of the children!

Get a grip. Nobody's blaming the kids, it's their parents. What sort of irresponsible fool lets their kids play on a road?

Nib, get over yourself.

Its a road, it's not a place of disregard, not a place of showmanship, it's not a catwalk, it's not a scale of maturity.

I know what you feel, your young and insurance company's and the government do gooders are your enemy, not innocent children.

Supergurrier

cerastes wrote: »

I can and do go slow, probably max 2nd gear till I exit the estate, wheres 20 coming from, it was 30 previously. Both of which are too fast in an estate, ie a cul de sac or any part of an estate that isnt leading anywhere other than housing.
I can manage a significantly lower speed and its not taking me much longer to get onto the road outside the estate, but Im paying massive care to the time and when children might be on the road.
I understood the limit is 30kmh, but that doesnt mean people should do that speed, I think it should be less, 20kmh.
I cant believe but reallly I shouldnt be suprised people are defending this.

Cars can go very fast in first gear too ya know.

I can't believe people are jumping to the conclusion it was all on the driver without the facts infront of them, if I'M HONEST.

Also speed limits aren't made up as you go along there are signposts to guide those without common sense.

RayM

Nib wrote: »

What sort of irresponsible fool lets their kids play on a road?

In a housing estate? Most parents, I would think. It's a driver's responsibility to watch out for children in housing estates. It's not like a normal road. In the summer, you can just assume that there will be kids on the road - and that they can be a bit silly and unpredictable - and reduce your speed accordingly.

Anyone who drives over 20km/h in a housing estate is an irresponsible idiot.

Nib

robertxxx wrote: »

Nib, get over yourself.

Its a road, it's not a place of disregard, not a place of showmanship, it's not a catwalk, it's not a scale of maturity.

I know what you feel, your young and insurance company's and the government do gooders are your enemy, not innocent children.

It's also not a place for children.

Keep your children off public roads and they will be fine.

Simple really.

cerastes

Jesus. wrote: »

That's just nonsense. There are plenty of main roads up through estates where 30mph is perfectly acceptable.



But they don't have to be. That's nonsense too. If that were the case, wouldn't every other place in Europe be covered with the things aswell? And its not just in estates they are. They're out on regional roads too. You're using the logic that if a tiny amount of people decide to act the bollox then everyone should be punished. This does not happen in similar Countries anywhere near the extent it does here. Instead of taking responsibility, you just roll over and allow the Nanny State to rule every area of your life.

That's no way for a free people to be governed.

In estates, Im talking about cul de sacs, where 30mph, nearly 50kmh you consider acceptable? I never said main roads in or around estates.
The shouldnt have to be but because people cant take personal repsonibility they are installed, instead we get the I pay tax, ins etc I own my car, I'll do as I please. I dont know why they aren't as prevelant in other places? where? in Europe, maybe people understand their responsibility better?

In stead of taking responsibility? I roll over? read my post, I crawl out my estate becuase there are children about and if they cant be seen they can be about, I dont want it on my conscience I was responsible for something, because I give a damn about things and people other than just myself. What this has to do with every other area of my life has nothing to do with this thread, its those that ignore reasonable responsibility to those around them that cause these things people dislike being implemented, we cant take the ramps up and put them down for the good/bad drivers??
We are not free, its better to respect others around us without having laws required to ensure we do, maybe thats the difference between this country and others in Europe.

Nib

RayM wrote: »

In a housing estate? Most parents, I would think. It's a driver's responsibility to watch out for children in housing estates. It's not like a normal road. In the summer, you can just assume that there will be kids on the road - and that they can be a bit silly and unpredictable - and reduce your speed accordingly.

Anyone who drives over 20km/h in a housing estate is an irresponsible idiot.

Anyone who lets their kids play on a road is an irresponsible idiot.

robertxxx

Nib wrote: »

Anyone who lets their kids play on a road is an irresponsible idiot.

Anyone who drives like an irresponsible kid is an idiot!

goz83

Nib wrote: »

It's also not a place for children.

Keep your children off public roads and they will be fine.

Simple really.

Were you locked up in the house as a child, or were you allowed play on the street like everyone else?

Supergurrier

Kids playing on the motorways coming to you in 2015.

*But it's ok because we put up speedbumps.

RayM

Nib wrote: »

Anyone who lets their kids play on a road is an irresponsible idiot.

What? In a housing estate? Seriously? Rather than restricting children's freedom to play on the streets (something which they have always done), would it not be more sensible and grown-up for motorists to just drive really slowly and cautiously? Surely it's not that much of an imposition?

Browsing the Motors forum can be a bit like visiting another planet sometimes.

Nib

goz83 wrote: »

Were you locked up in the house as a child, or were you allowed play on the street like everyone else?

Played in my back and front garden. In the house. My friends' houses and gardens. Local football and soccer pitch. School.

You know, anywhere where I couldn't be mowed down by a car.

robertxxx

Supergurrier and Nib, please stop trolling.