Off-Topic thread Horse Racing

Slattsy

Currently there is a bit of an issue in the Off Topic thread in the horse racing forum.

With it being an off topic thread, and with the World Cup starting yesterday, football and football betting has obviously been a bit of a hot topic on the lead up to yesterday's opening game.

Now, there was a thread opened on the subject in the HR forum on the WC. And was correctly closed by Beasty. I don't think any user had a problem with this.

However, the subject was broached in the off topic thread. Only for Beasty to say that only the smallest of chat is allowable on the subject because there is a soccer forum for that chat.

There has been some implications yesterday evening with bans and warnings because Beasty believed the chat on football was excessive(it was the opening game) and it didn't go down too well.

Clarification is needed here, and fast. And this could be something that may need to be looked at in any forum that has an OT thread.
Just what and what is not allowed in an off topic thread?
Beasty suggested some football talk was allowed, but then warned it was getting excessive. What is the limit or lifespan of a topic?
It has not been week upon weeks of football chat there.

It's the World Cup. It comes only every 4 years, we've a good solid core of posters there and why dilute our opinions by going to the soccer forum and wade in with the 100s of others.

It just seems a bit excessive when it was harmless chat on a harmless subject, in an off topic thread. I can't get my head around it to be honest.

Off topic should be anything but horse racing surely?
Maybe an Administrator can have a wee look and see what they think and maybe clarify why off topic threads are even allowed.
Cheers.

Lovely Bloke

It's also pretty sad to see a CMod seemingly running roughshod over a forum, without the knowledge of the local mod, leading to the local mod feeling so disenfranchised as to actually close his account.

Has the role of CMods changed recently, because that same CMod also has a high visibility/presence in the Soccer Forum too, in an "official" capacity.

Now it's obvious what is going to go down here, it always happens the same way - that local mod will be dismissed simply because he closed his account, his issues will not be taken seriously. The Admin will rally around their cohort the CMod. In fairness, in the three locked threads, one here, one in HD/DR and one in Prison there was some pretty vitriolic abuse thrown about, which is the incorrect way to deal with it. However, and I just don't think anyone higher than a mod actually gets this, or wilfully ignores it, or the "business" don't want to foster the feeling - whatever - but there ARE communities on Boards.ie, and when communities feel threatened, emotions can run high. I'm not excusing name calling, I'm not excusing abuse, but I'm simply stating that when a CMod or Admin or CManager or Staff Member who usually has no input into a community appears and starts issuing dictats to the regulars, there is going to be some push back.

And now we have the classic Sports Category scenario, mod posts ruling in thread, then bans people who question it, hiding behind the "no questioning mods in threads" rule, even though the ruling was absolutely ridiculous in the first place.

so what if the Horse crowd want to discuss soccer in their Off Topic thread? What difference does it make? The Soccer crowd won't care because those guys don't post in the Soccer Forum anyway, the Horse crowd don't want to post in the Soccer Forum, so where is the harm in allowing a bit of chat about the biggest event in the world? AH has a WC thread for god sake.

Also, the CMod stating things like a thread featuring good looking people is not welcome on the site? Really? because the Soccer Forum has one, tGC has one, tLL has one, Slydice is a forum dedicated to it.

So yeah, he needs to reign himself in, he seems to be of the opinion that the whole sports category is his own little fifedom.

OldGoat

There is a horse racing forum and a soccer forum so where should I go to talk about horse racing?
More importantly which forum should I go to to avoid horse racing chat?

While the world cup might be big news for most it is dreadfully dull to others. If you allow the banter/off-topic threads of the HR thread to fill with naught but football then you are doing a disservice to those that are jaded by the topic especially when there is a whole forum dedicated to the topic that could be used instead.

Having said that, in one of my forums we realise that there will be no way to avoid the topic cropping up so we have created a World Cup thread and anything football related from the off-topic thread will be dumped into it. Posting in the off topic thread about the cup will be frowned upon.

My inbuilt File-Manager is saying that football threads go into the football forum, motor racing threads go into the motor racing forum, gardening threads go into the gardening forum. It's an easy system to maintain and no-one gets pissed off.

Lovely Bloke

People just want to chat about something huge with the group of people the are used to chatting with about their normal topic.

I'm a member of a beer tasting group, in real life, we go to the pub once a month to taste a few different beers. Some of us also like football, some of us don't. I really can't imagine the bar manager (not even a lowly cleaning lady mind!) nipping over to our table to tell us to stop talking about The World Cup because some of those other guys at our table think it's unbearably dull. Maybe the guys in the group who want to talk about football should go to the other table with lads in tracksuits and Man United jerseys, hoping England lose. Or maybe we don't want to do that, maybe we want to have a small chat about the match last night, then get back to discussing beer in a minute.

5starpool

Limiting what can be talked about in an off topic thread is just full on ridiculous. The cmod in question is way out of line, and to be issuing cards over questioning what is clearly a preposterous ruling just smacks of Cartman style 'respect my authoritay'. Why does a cool, seemingly against the wishes of local mods get to dictate what is allowed in an off topic thread?

Tom Dunne

On the face of it, yes, my own personal opinion is that an off-topic thread should permit the discussion of pretty much everything.

However, there are two sides to every story and I can't help but feel that there is more to this. So I ask you all to please hold off for a while until I chat with the mods and Cmods and figure out where we go with this.

And please, keep it civil.

Harry Angstrom

Tom Dunne wrote: »

On the face of it, yes, my own personal opinion is that an off-topic thread should permit the discussion of pretty much everything.

However, there are two sides to every story and I can't help but feel that there is more to this. So I ask you all to please hold off for a while until I chat with the mods and Cmods and figure out where we go with this.

And please, keep it civil.

I honestly don't think there are two sides to this particular story. As a result of the actions of one particular mod, people are being banned and suspended wholesale, and accounts are being closed, all because a few regular posters in the Horseracing forum would like to have a chat about the World Cup in an Off-topic thread.

Tom Dunne

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I honestly don't think there are two sides to this particular story. As a result of the actions of one particular mod, people are being banned and suspended wholesale, and accounts are being closed, all because a few regular posters in the Horseracing forum would like to have a chat about the World Cup in an Off-topic thread.

And that's fine, that's your opinion and I acknowledge it.

However, in an effort to remain as objective as I can, I would like to get other opinions on the matter too.

Beasty

To put this in perspective - around 25% of posts in the Horse Racing forum yesterday were soccer related. After 7pm probably 2/3rds were. In addition a lot of posts were questioning mod instructions or abusive towards me

Two yellow cards were issued for ignoring my requests to tone down the Soccer talk (and to be clear I never banned such talk). Two bans were issued for continuing to question/challenge mod actions in-thread. One particularly abusive poster was banned from the forum and as can be seen from the Feedback and Prison threads he started is now permabanned from the site

To date, only one person (and credit to the OP here) has actually PM'd me to discuss this whole issue

Harry Angstrom

Beasty wrote: »

To put this in perspective - around 25% of posts in the Horse Racing forum yesterday were soccer related. After 7pm probably 2/3rds were. In addition a lot of posts were questioning mod instructions or abusive towards me

Two yellow cards were issued for ignoring my requests to tone down the Soccer talk (and to be clear I never banned such talk). Two bans were issued for continuing to question/challenge mod actions in-thread. One particularly abusive poster was banned from the forum and as can be seen from the Feedback and Prison threads he started is now permabanned from the site

To date, only one person (and credit to the OP here) has actually PM'd me to discuss this whole issue

It's the World Cup. It happens once every four years. It seems very strange that people can't have a chat about the World Cup in an off-topic thread. It's not as if the thread is over-run with football talk 52 weeks of the year. The diktat laid down that people can't talk about the World Cup seems to be nothing more than an provocative exercise in raising the hackles of regular posters.

naughto

Beasty wrote: »

To put this in perspective - around 25% of posts in the Horse Racing forum yesterday were soccer related. After 7pm probably 2/3rds were. In addition a lot of posts were questioning mod instructions or abusive towards me

Two yellow cards were issued for ignoring my requests to tone down the Soccer talk (and to be clear I never banned such talk). Two bans were issued for continuing to question/challenge mod actions in-thread. One particularly abusive poster was banned from the forum and as can be seen from the Feedback and Prison threads he started is now permabanned from the site

To date, only one person (and credit to the OP here) has actually PM'd me to discuss this whole issue

Why should we have to pm you over something as big as this,every one has being asking for a feedback thread for ages now.you say that you never banned such talk ,please tell me what you mean by this as a number of people including, my self have being banned from the thread.

5starpool

I don't post in the horse racing forum, so it doesn't directly affect me, but so what if 75% or more posts are about a particular subject at that time? If it was always football only then there may be a case, but I assume it's like most OT threads where discussion changes depending on what's happening in the world. It really is modding for no good reason.

I've read the recent posts in there and the only hassle football posts have caused has been when beasty laid down the unnecessary law.

Tom Dunne

Ok guys, I'm going to lock this for the moment while I discuss this further with the mods and Cmods.

I don't want this particular thread to turn into Them-vs-Us. I can see it already taking a turn for the worse.

So hold tight for the moment and I'll re-open this thread in due course.

Tom Dunne

Ok, so there has been a significant amount of discussion between the mod, Cmods and Admins around a number of issues in the Horse Racing forum over the past number of hours.

Beasty and convert have agreed that a World Cup megathread would be a good idea, with discussion of soccer/football in any other threads being prohibited (especially in light of the opening up of the Soccer forum).

We (the Admins) will be looking at other issues around the forum, including recent bannings and cards and the context within which they were handed out.

I hope this will be seen as a positive step and I appreciate everyone's desire to engage in constructive and robust discussion about the forum.

5starpool

Good to see it sorted out. I'm guessing a dedicated thread (which I believe was created there but closed before which prompted the move into the OT thread) should keep the regs there happy.

Lovely Bloke

I wonder if anyone has reached out to the mod who closed his account? He said he'd ba back with a new alias.

Or is it just a case of feck him, let him toddle on?

naughto

how do you know that hes not back:eek::eek::eek:

Dades

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Or is it just a case of feck him, let him toddle on?

Of course. And we called around to his house and threw a brick through his front window.

That's what you want to hear, right?

droidman123

Dades wrote: »

Of course. And we called around to his house and threw a brick through his front window.

That's what you want to hear, right?

Thats the type of sarcasm that solves nothing.what was meant was urbansea contacted and asked to come back? The reason being, he contributed more to the horse racing forum than anyone, he was/is extremely knowledgeable about horse racing and an all round affable guy.

Orion

Doubt there's anything can be done now. He closed his account so that's that. He can't be contacted by the office or admin team as that would now be a DP breach if my reading of the law is correct.

He could have brought this up in the Mods forum and engaged in discussion but didn't. I agree (from a complete outsider perspective) that it's not a good thing to lose a respected mod/contributor but closing his account is a Rubicon moment.

IITYWYBMAD

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Ok, so there has been a significant amount of discussion between the mod, Cmods and Admins around a number of issues in the Horse Racing forum over the past number of hours.

Beasty and convert have agreed that a World Cup megathread would be a good idea, with discussion of soccer/football in any other threads being prohibited (especially in light of the opening up of the Soccer forum).

We (the Admins) will be looking at other issues around the forum, including recent bannings and cards and the context within which they were handed out.

I hope this will be seen as a positive step and I appreciate everyone's desire to engage in constructive and robust discussion about the forum.

Tom,

While I think your post/discussions/etc addresses what will happen from now on, could you address the point of why off-topic related chat (discussion of the WC) was suddenly clamped down on by the C-mod in question, and what the guidelines are going forward?

Should posters be allowed speak about and discuss off-topic matters in an off-topic thread?

I'm well aware that multiple threads about an off-topic issue should be clamped down on, but surely an off-topic thread should do exactly what it says on the tin.

Beasty wrote: »

To put this in perspective - around 25% of posts in the Horse Racing forum yesterday were soccer related. After 7pm probably 2/3rds were

Beasty, could you clarify the following? Were these posts in multiple threads, or were most in the off-topic thread? How many threads/posts were deleted?

Can I also ask you where you are getting your stats from? 25% and 66%?

Beasty

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Beasty, could you clarify the following? Were these posts in multiple threads, or were most in the off-topic thread? How many threads/posts were deleted?

Can I also ask you where you are getting your stats from? 25% and 66%?

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Beasty, could you clarify the following? Were these posts in multiple threads, or were most in the off-topic thread? How many threads/posts were deleted?

Can I also ask you where you are getting your stats from? 25% and 66%?

There were just under 200 posts in the forum yesterday, and I counted just under 50 soccer related posts in the off-topic thread post 7pm, when there were about 25 posts in other threads, plus a few more (many now deleted) discussing modding matters in the off-topic thread

Anyway a decision has been reached and a new dedicated thread established. So, as far as I am concerned, that's the end of that specific matter. There will be a Horse Racing Feedback thread within the forum at some stage in the non too-distant future, but as I stated over there we have to agree any terms of reference and actually allow this to settle down a little rather than go straight into it, particularly as we currently only have one dedicated mod

Lovely Bloke

Dades wrote: »

Of course. And we called around to his house and threw a brick through his front window.

That's what you want to hear, right?

ffs.

Good stuff, a defensive Admin, just what this thread needed.

Nope, I was asking a question, the actions of the CMod pretty much lead to the Mod leaving the site, I just think it would be the decent thing for "Boards.ie" to do, if and when he re-regs (as he said he would, and the tools are there to find him when he does, we all know that) to contact him and ask him to re-join the mod team. He was doing a good job, and was liked, respected and deemed an excellent contributor to the forum by the community that uses it.

Or we could throw (virtual) bricks at him for daring to close his account. The humanity.

IITYWYBMAD

Beasty wrote: »

There were just under 200 posts in the forum yesterday, and I counted just under 50 soccer related posts in the off-topic thread post 7pm, when there were about 25 posts in other threads, plus a few more (many now deleted) discussing modding matters in the off-topic thread

Anyway a decision has been reached and a new dedicated thread established. So, as far as I am concerned, that's the end of that specific matter. There will be a Horse Racing Feedback thread within the forum at some stage in the non too-distant future, but as I stated over there we have to agree any terms of reference and actually allow this to settle down a little rather than go straight into it, particularly as we currently only have one dedicated mod

Thanks for the reply, so you're saying that there were under 50 soccer posts in the "off-topic" thread yesterday (before 7) and that that rose by a factor of 3 at some stage giving a ratio of 2 out of 3 some time later??

I appreciate your eagerness to move on from this specific matter, but perhaps you'd address my previous point, what was the issue with soccer related posts in the off-topic thread?

Beasty

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, so you're saying that there were under 50 soccer posts in the "off-topic" thread yesterday (before 7) and that that rose by a factor of 3 at some stage giving a ratio of 2 out of 3 some time later??

I appreciate your eagerness to move on from this specific matter, but perhaps you'd address my previous point, what was the issue with soccer related posts in the off-topic thread?

50/200= 25% during the day, all pretty much 7pm and after
there were perhaps 25 Horse racing related posts after 7pm
so 50/75= 2/3rds soccer related posts after 7pm

I just did a quick count up from the off-topic thread, but don't recall any soccer related posts in any of the other threads and the figure were rounded - a bit less than 200 throughout the day and a bit less than 50 soccer related from recollection

Dades

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

ffs.

Good stuff, a defensive Admin, just what this thread needed.

Nope, I was asking a question...

Just a shame you couldn't ask the question without a not-entirely-unexpected dig.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Or is it just a case of feck him, let him toddle on?

As it happens, the mod in question has been in contact, which is good, because having closed his account he rendered himself uncontactable by anyone who doesn't personally have his contact details.

I note you glossed over the outcome of this thread which doesn't seem to tally with your also-not-entirely-unexpected prediction.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Now it's obvious what is going to go down here, it always happens the same way - that local mod will be dismissed simply because he closed his account, his issues will not be taken seriously. The Admin will rally around their cohort the CMod.

RasTa

So why is it an issue to you or anyone that there is a topic dominating the off topic thread?

For example if there was 50 posts on the latest Game of Thrones episode would that be deemed too much?

I thought off topic wasn't monitored bar abuse etc.

mdwexford

Beasty wrote: »

To put this in perspective - around 25% of posts in the Horse Racing forum yesterday were soccer related. After 7pm probably 2/3rds were. In addition a lot of posts were questioning mod instructions or abusive towards me

Two yellow cards were issued for ignoring my requests to tone down the Soccer talk (and to be clear I never banned such talk). Two bans were issued for continuing to question/challenge mod actions in-thread. One particularly abusive poster was banned from the forum and as can be seen from the Feedback and Prison threads he started is now permabanned from the site

To date, only one person (and credit to the OP here) has actually PM'd me to discuss this whole issue

This is a lie because I pm'd you as well.

Good to see common sense has prevailed and Beasty has been overruled here.

When is there a thread for feedback about his attitude over the past few days and wading into a forum he has never posted in before with an iron fist and trying to throw his weight around?

IITYWYBMAD

RasTa wrote: »

So why is it an issue to you or anyone that there is a topic dominating the off topic thread?

For example if there was 50 posts on the latest Game of Thrones episode would that be deemed too much?

I thought off topic wasn't monitored bar abuse etc.

this Is my point. While there appears to be a co census on moving forward, it does not address the main issue. I.e. what is the problem with posting about 'anything' in an off topic thread? When is the limit reached? Stinks of over zealousness tbh

KERSPLAT!

I can't understand the 'no soccer talk in the off topic thread'. In that case, there's a forum on boards for every topic you can think of... So why would you need an off topic thread in any forum when anything in that thread would be covered by another forum?

I would have thought an off topic thread was exactly that, and as long as it didn't breach the charter it would be fine

AngeGal

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I can't understand the 'no soccer talk in the off topic thread'. In that case, there's a forum on boards for every topic you can think of... So why would you need an off topic thread in any forum when anything in that thread would be covered by another forum?

I would have thought an off topic thread was exactly that, and as long as it didn't breach the charter it would be fine

I agree with this, it seems rather illogical at best.

It doesn't really affect me as I just read without contributing (think I have only posted a couple of times in the racing forum as a whole) but it seems bizarre.
Will the Olympics need a separate thread too? All-Ireland finals? A massive prolonged news story which dominates discussion?

Surely it should be the contributors who have developed that thread and made it what it is who should decide what is discussed rather than someone who has rarely posted it there, even if that person is a cmod.

It's really quite an odd decision.

Beasty

mdwexford wrote: »

This is a lie because I pm'd you as well.

Apologies - yes you PM'd me overnight, but I did not get a chance to have a proper look at that before I became award of this thread this morning.

Orion

mdwexford wrote: »

Good to see common sense has prevailed and Beasty has been overruled here.

When is there a thread for feedback about his attitude over the past few days and wading into a forum he has never posted in before with an iron fist and trying to throw his weight around?

Common sense would just be to let it go. A mistake may or may not have been made. As in Tom Dunne's post below the admins, mod and cmod have had discussions and have made a decision regarding a world cup thread and the admins are still looking at other issues. You can call that over-ruling Beasty if you like (I'd call it reaching a compromise) but rather than dwelling on the past why not move forward and be constructive instead of just being antagonistic and point-scoring. The latter serves no purpose apart from satisfying people's egos at this stage.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Ok, so there has been a significant amount of discussion between the mod, Cmods and Admins around a number of issues in the Horse Racing forum over the past number of hours.

Beasty and convert have agreed that a World Cup megathread would be a good idea, with discussion of soccer/football in any other threads being prohibited (especially in light of the opening up of the Soccer forum).

We (the Admins) will be looking at other issues around the forum, including recent bannings and cards and the context within which they were handed out.

I hope this will be seen as a positive step and I appreciate everyone's desire to engage in constructive and robust discussion about the forum.

Zaph

Orion wrote: »

Common sense would just be to let it go. A mistake may or may not have been made. As in Tom Dunne's post below the admins, mod and cmod have had discussions and have made a decision regarding a world cup thread and the admins are still looking at other issues. You can call that over-ruling Beasty if you like (I'd call it reaching a compromise) but rather than dwelling on the past why not move forward and be constructive instead of just being antagonistic and point-scoring. The latter serves no purpose apart from satisfying people's egos at this stage.

And I think that this is a appropriate post to end the thread on. Posters concerns have been noted and at least partially addressed, and further review of the forum is ongoing. Anything after that just becomes a witch-hunt, and nobody wins when one of them starts.