Bullying in the workplace

Corriefan2014

A person I know told me that a complaint was made about him in work for bullying. However the woman that made the complaint did this after my friend had logged into his security diary that she was late on numerous occasions in his security diary as he needs to be paid for the extra time he had to stay. This Was later proven to be true as it was seen on the CCTV footage by the manager who looked at it after she claimed he was lying. This girl has also gone to
Numerous other employees saying that he is bullying her and constantly bad mouths him to other employees and claims that he has a vandetta against her because he asked her out and she said no...... A claim he strongly denies. Everyone in the company claims what she is saying is false apart from one other person who is very close to the woman in question.
Is this sort of thing allowed to happen in the work place?? My friend is extremely upset over this and feels that people now look at him differently in work.
Any advise or input would be greatly appreciated.

goz83

Maybe your friend needs to report the woman for bullying. It would also fall under "defamation" if this person is telling porkies to other employees. Your friend should speak to the manager/supervisor/boss before it escalates further.

Corriefan2014

goz83 wrote: »

Maybe your friend needs to report the woman for bullying. It would also fall under "defamation" if this person is telling porkies to other employees. Your friend should speak to the manager/supervisor/boss before it escalates further.

My friend technically works for a different company which is employed by the woman's company which is how they work together. She reported him to her manager for bullying however she is away on holidays and they are waiting her return to have a meeting about this. His manager rang him to inform him that the complaint was made against him and that he will be present in the meeting with my friend. However in the mean time there seems to be consistent allegations made against my friend. Several people have come up to him to
Inform him that she is bad mouthing him everyday. Is there no way for him to have this bad mouthing stopped before the meeting takes place as her manager won't be back I till next week?!

Bepolite

I'm confused. She's away but bad mouthing him?

Leave it to the respective HR departments to resolve. He could seek an injunction but I don't really think this is practical or indeed the advice you are looking for.

For non-legal practical advice you might try the Work and Jobs forum. However I reiterate he's better to leave the matter alone until the respective managers can sort it out.

Manach

From skimming the literature bullying, as related to work stress, is becoming to be taken seriously in the workplace. Unfortunately, this has the potential then to be spun out of control; lawyers etc. So I'd say both parties would really need to consider their position and try and keep this at a manager/HR level as per Bepolite's suggestion.

Corriefan2014

The head manager who will take charge of the meeting is away that's why this seems to be so drawn out as they have to wait for her to come back. So while she's away he is getting reports of her going around to other people saying he bullies her etc.

Bepolite wrote: »

I'm confused. She's away but bad mouthing him?

Leave it to the respective HR departments to resolve. He could seek an injunction but I don't really think this is practical or indeed the advice you are looking for.

For non-legal practical advice you might try the Work and Jobs forum. However I reiterate he's better to leave the matter alone until the respective managers can sort it out.

Corriefan2014

As far as I am aware he will be happy for her to admit to everyone she was lying and apologise and leave it there but from what he is telling me it is being taken very seriously as HR want to talk privately with anyone that has heard what has been said. Just seems very strange that this sort of thing happens with grown adults in a professional environment? It should be stopped immediately!

Manach wrote: »

From skimming the literature bullying, as related to work stress, is becoming to be taken seriously in the workplace. Unfortunately, this has the potential then to be spun out of control; lawyers etc. So I'd say both parties would really need to consider their position and try and keep this at a manager/HR level as per Bepolite's suggestion.

Recondite49

Corriefan2014 wrote: »

As far as I am aware he will be happy for her to admit to everyone she was lying and apologise and leave it there but from what he is telling me it is being taken very seriously as HR want to talk privately with anyone that has heard what has been said. Just seems very strange that this sort of thing happens with grown adults in a professional environment? It should be stopped immediately!

Is your friend a member of a Union? If not, then I'd suggest he sign up sharpish and get them on side. That way he can have a rep present during the meetings.

If they try to pull the whole 'This-isn't-a-disciplinary-meeting-so-you-can't-have-a-rep' spiel, my own advice would be to refuse to attend but make a written submission instead. I've done this before and while it upset the HR people that I refused to attend, there wasn't much they could do.

notharrypotter

after my friend had logged into his security diary that she was late on numerous occasions in his security diary as he needs to be paid for the extra time he had to stay. This Was later proven to be true as it was seen on the CCTV footage by the manager who looked at it after she claimed he was lying.

The lady in question has realized that she has been found out.

This girl has also gone to
Numerous other employees saying that he is bullying her and constantly bad mouths him to other employees and claims that he has a vandetta against her because he asked her out and she said no......

She is getting her retaliation in early and is trying to muddy the waters.

As far as I am aware he will be happy for her to admit to everyone she was lying and apologise and leave it there

Not going to happen as can be seen she is out of the traps ahead of your friend.

My friend technically works for a different company which is employed by the woman's company

Your friend is a security guard either at the main gate or the reception area.
He is employed by company "B" which has been contracted by company "A" to provide this service.

Company "B" in the interests of keeping the contract might "suggest" your friend move to company "C"'s premises.

Is your friend a member of a Union? If not, then I'd suggest he sign up sharpish and get them on side.

Sound advice.

goz83

Why do i see all this happening in one of those medium sized electric stores, like powercity, or DID?

Anyway, your friend just needs to hold tight and if he wants to stay working at the same location, he should have a good chance if most the other staff are supportive of him. It is best he waits for HR to resolve it and put his wishes to them in advance.

?Cee?view

Recondite49 wrote: »

If they try to pull the whole 'This-isn't-a-disciplinary-meeting-so-you-can't-have-a-rep' spiel, my own advice would be to refuse to attend but make a written submission instead. I've done this before and while it upset the HR people that I refused to attend, there wasn't much they could do.

Are you suggesting that in a disciplinary meeting you have a right to be accompanied by a Union Rep? Surely this is only the case if the company recognises the Union?

Kristopherus

?Cee?view wrote: »

Are you suggesting that in a disciplinary meeting you have a right to be accompanied by a Union Rep? Surely this is only the case if the company recognises the Union?

Its the law. You are entitled to have at least one back-up person. That could be a colleague or a Union rep.

delthedriver

Some HR people don't know their A's from their elbows!

Your friend should have his Union Rep accompany him to any meeting.

HR will be looking to cover themselves, their primary responsibility will be themselves.

Your friend has a right to a safe environment in which to work.

Bullying is taken very seriously, which could result in a civil or criminal action.

If this lady is bullying your friend for which she has no grounds, the best thing is for the employers is to dismiss her. If it is a large organisation , one would hope they have a policy on bullying in the workplace.

?Cee?view

Kristopherus wrote: »

Its the law. You are entitled to have at least one back-up person. That could be a colleague or a Union rep.

Interesting. While this is not legal advice (ref. charter here), I believe that there is no entitlement in Ireland to Union representation. Now, having said that, it would be a very unwise company that would deny an employee if they wanted someone to accompany them, but an Irish employee can restrict who accompanies the employee and can specifically exclude Union reps. Having said that, I've seen Irish unions insist that there is such a right and I've also seen them have to back down when they can't point to an enforceable source of the right.

The situation is different in English and Welsh law where there is a right to Union representation at such meetings. Possibly it will go this way under Irish law eventually if Ireland follows European trends.

As to "Some HR people don't know their A's from their elbows!" - I have to agree completely!

Pat Mustard

?Cee?view wrote: »

Interesting. While this is not legal advice (ref. charter here), I believe that there is no entitlement in Ireland to Union representation. Now, having said that, it would be a very unwise company that would deny an employee if they wanted someone to accompany them, but an Irish employee can restrict who accompanies the employee and can specifically exclude Union reps. Having said that, I've seen Irish unions insist that there is such a right and I've also seen them have to back down when they can't point to an enforceable source of the right.

The situation is different in English and Welsh law where there is a right to Union representation at such meetings. Possibly it will go this way under Irish law eventually if Ireland follows European trends.

I had an argument with ProcrastaPolite over here, about this. He took your viewpoint, and I argued that there was an entitlement to legal representation. He was able to box his own corner too...

Recondite49

?Cee?view wrote: »

Are you suggesting that in a disciplinary meeting you have a right to be accompanied by a Union Rep? Surely this is only the case if the company recognises the Union?

Naturally any company is entitled to refuse people admission to their premises but refusing someone representation by their Union would leave the company open to be sued for unfair dismissal. The situation about what is legal in terms of Union is a little fraught over in the UK, I don't know how you do things in Ireland specifically. At the very least they can advise you about your rights under law.

When I lived in the UK, I was once asked to attend a disciplinary meeting for harassment. It seemed some colleagues had overheard some comments I had made amongst my friends and had construed them as harassment.

The long and the short of this was that at the time I was dating a girl who was just finishing school. She was 18, I was 24. She was very mature for her age but they ribbed me about being an old perv and I cheerfully admitted to being a "cradle snatcher," a little bit of friendly banter or so I thought.

I was asked to attend a meeting with one of the acting Managers and a person from HR. She immediately began shouting when I stepped into the room and told me that my personal opinion wasn't important and they were threatening disciplinary action.

I pointed out to them that our harassment and discrimination policy required a specific employee to complain that I had bullied or harassed them, and no such complaint had been made. When they tried to force the point, I insisted on speaking to my Union rep before they said anything else.

They in turn tried to tell me that this wasn't appropriate as they hadn't begun any formal disciplinary proceedings. They became a lot less aggressive when I mentioned the word 'Union' I can tell you(!) - they then said that they just wanted to give me a warning.

I asked them if I was being given a formal verbal or written warning, they said no. I said then I didn't think I'd waste any more of their time and that if they wished to proceed with formal disciplinary proceedings then I'd be grateful for written notice of the same. I then got up and walked out.

The HR lady tried to shout after me, "I'm not finished!" but I went back to my desk and got on with my work. My regular Manager got back a few days later and I never heard anything about the matter again.

I did speak to a Union Rep who confirmed there was no requirement for me contractually to attend these kinds of meetings and that I was within my rights to request that a rep be present for any formal disciplinary procedures. He agreed with my assessment that absent an actual complainant that overhearing remarks would not be enough.

I didn't really care either way as I knew I'd be handing my notice in, in a few months anyway but given that Employers will do whatever they think they can get away with and speaking to your Union is one of the few options available to you, I'd say it can't hurt.

irishredmist

Corriefan2014 wrote: »

A person I know told me that a complaint was made about him in work for bullying. However the woman that made the complaint did this after my friend had logged into his security diary that she was late on numerous occasions in his security diary as he needs to be paid for the extra time he had to stay. This Was later proven to be true as it was seen on the CCTV footage by the manager who looked at it after she claimed he was lying. This girl has also gone to
Numerous other employees saying that he is bullying her and constantly bad mouths him to other employees and claims that he has a vandetta against her because he asked her out and she said no...... A claim he strongly denies. Everyone in the company claims what she is saying is false apart from one other person who is very close to the woman in question.
Is this sort of thing allowed to happen in the work place?? My friend is extremely upset over this and feels that people now look at him differently in work.
Any advise or input would be greatly appreciated.

I had a similar situation once with a Czech girl in work, but too smart for her to get one over on me, her work permit was not valid, she was fired, tell your friend to record and tape everything its sad but the only way to survive..

irishredmist

Corriefan2014 wrote: »

A person I know told me that a complaint was made about him in work for bullying. However the woman that made the complaint did this after my friend had logged into his security diary that she was late on numerous occasions in his security diary as he needs to be paid for the extra time he had to stay. This Was later proven to be true as it was seen on the CCTV footage by the manager who looked at it after she claimed he was lying. This girl has also gone to
Numerous other employees saying that he is bullying her and constantly bad mouths him to other employees and claims that he has a vandetta against her because he asked her out and she said no...... A claim he strongly denies. Everyone in the company claims what she is saying is false apart from one other person who is very close to the woman in question.
Is this sort of thing allowed to happen in the work place?? My friend is extremely upset over this and feels that people now look at him differently in work.
Any advise or input would be greatly appreciated.

I had a similar situation once with a Czech girl in work, but too smart for her to get one over on me, her work permit was not valid, she was fired, tell your friend to record and tape everything its sad but the only way to survive..

irishredmist

Corriefan2014 wrote: »

A person I know told me that a complaint was made about him in work for bullying. However the woman that made the complaint did this after my friend had logged into his security diary that she was late on numerous occasions in his security diary as he needs to be paid for the extra time he had to stay. This Was later proven to be true as it was seen on the CCTV footage by the manager who looked at it after she claimed he was lying. This girl has also gone to
Numerous other employees saying that he is bullying her and constantly bad mouths him to other employees and claims that he has a vandetta against her because he asked her out and she said no...... A claim he strongly denies. Everyone in the company claims what she is saying is false apart from one other person who is very close to the woman in question.
Is this sort of thing allowed to happen in the work place?? My friend is extremely upset over this and feels that people now look at him differently in work.
Any advise or input would be greatly appreciated.

I had a similar situation once with a girl in work, it turns out her work permit was not valid, she was fired, tell your friend to record and tape everything its sad but the only way to survive..

Corriefan2014

So far I know the meeting will take place sometime next week. He has three people from her company backing him up saying she's doing the bullying. And six people from his company backing him up saying she is constantly late and has arrived in numerous occasions still drink from the night before. She has also admitted to verbally abusing him! Only thing is her company are paying to put her though a college course so they may not want to fire her. I know it's a horrible thing to say but I genuinely hope they do after all the stress and upset she has causes. It's a disgraceful way to carry on. Fingers crossed the meeting goes on his favour!!!

Pat Mustard

Recondite49 wrote: »

When I lived in the UK, I was once asked to attend a disciplinary meeting for harassment. It seemed some colleagues had overheard some comments I had made amongst my friends and had construed them as harassment.

The long and the short of this was that at the time I was dating a girl who was just finishing school. She was 18, I was 24. She was very mature for her age but they ribbed me about being an old perv and I cheerfully admitted to being a "cradle snatcher," a little bit of friendly banter or so I thought.

I was asked to attend a meeting with one of the acting Managers and a person from HR. She immediately began shouting when I stepped into the room and told me that my personal opinion wasn't important and they were threatening disciplinary action.

They thought that the self-deprecating use of the phrase 'cradle snatcher' amounted to harrassment? But they couldn't say who was harassed?

What a shower of jobsworth muppets! :pac:

Recondite49

The Mustard wrote: »

They thought that the self-deprecating use of the phrase 'cradle snatcher' amounted to harrassment? But they couldn't say who was harassed?

What a shower of jobsworth muppets! :pac:

Hi The Mustard,

It appears the Manager himself overheard the comments and then told me they'd done some investigation and asked people what they thought. One girl said she was disgusted at the idea. He repeated that several times.

The same girl had a conversation with a colleague where she complained about the number of young girls in town wearing miniskirts, then added, "Then they get surprised when they're raped." Left to myself I would say this is a tad more offensive but I didn't go running to HR's apron strings as I thought it would be better to let her wallow in ignorance!

When I was leaving the company I was asked to fill in a form providing my reasons. I'm sure you've seen this sort of thing before yourself.

I was asked if I thought there was anything that could be improved about the company in question. I replied much as you've seen already - that anyone can potentially be offended by anything.

Incidentally while I was with the same employer a colleague confronted me and told me she thought I was a child molester. We were at an office party at the time and she might have had a drink or two. I laughed in her face of course but my team leader later took me aside and said he was sorry but there was nothing they could do as it hadn't happened in the workplace.

"Those are the rules," he sighed.

What's sauce for the goose... :-D

Pat Mustard

Sounds like bureaucracy gone mad. People actively seeking out offence and making a big deal.

Recondite49

The Mustard wrote: »

Sounds like bureaucracy gone mad. People actively seeking out offence and making a big deal.

Well I suppose these things happen Mustard. After all the HR people have to justify their salaries somehow. You only wonder how all the giants like AT&T and General Electric coped before human resources came along.

With my current employer I have my e-mail set up to automatically delete their e-mails as they come in. Only real form of protest you can make so long as you're working for the man.