Why did the IRA murder their own people?

WhiteWalls

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

WhiteWalls

I know Tyrone is in one of the 6 counties but there was catholics killed that day also, it just doesn't make sense to me

jaffusmax

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

It was easier for those whom performed this horrible act to do it in their own backyard logistically than mainland uk while they also were able to depersonalise the aftermath by remotely detonating the device then to hide behind political ideology to justify their actions.

maccored

Its a tad more complex than catholic v protestant

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

Nodin

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

Well that bomb was after the Good Friday agreement so it wasn't part of the "troubles" per se. It was carried out by dissidents and not the Provisional IRA. Nor was it apparently intended to cause the carnage it did.

Fratton Fred

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

The same reason Muslim extremists were happy to kill Muslims on 9/11, they believe their goal, their ideals, are more important than anything else. Even someone's life.

Not their own lives, obviously, but the lives of others.

LuckyLloyd

Important to remember that the Omagh bombing was carried out by the 'Real IRA' who were a splinter group from the Provisional IRA and opponents to the GFA and peace process.

That understood, the perpetrators committed errors in their execution of the bombing that contributed to a higher than desired death toll (inaccurate telephoned warnings). This was allied to RUC failings in terms of dealing with and interpreting the warnings. Ultimately though, the bombing was ill judged and utterly indefensible and the backlash forced the Real IRA to declare a ceasefire shortly afterwards.

I don't personally understand what the RIRA hoped to achieve or why they thought that they could successfully oppose the GFA and move towards peace in Northern Ireland at that point in time.

pO1Neil

What do you mean by their "own" people. The Irish Republican movement began with liberal protestants.

Fratton Fred

You could just as easily swap Omagh for Claudy though.

pO1Neil

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Important to remember that the Omagh bombing was carried out by the 'Real IRA' who were a splinter group from the Provisional IRA and opponents to the GFA and peace process.

That understood, the perpetrators committed errors in their execution of the bombing that contributed to a higher than desired death toll (inaccurate telephoned warnings). This was allied to RUC failings in terms of dealing with and interpreting the warnings. Ultimately though, the bombing was ill judged and utterly indefensible and the backlash forced the Real IRA to declare a ceasefire shortly afterwards.

I don't personally understand what the RIRA hoped to achieve or why they thought that they could successfully oppose the GFA and move towards peace in Northern Ireland at that point in time.

I have a theory about RIRA, CIRA,"New" IRA & ONH. Their leaderships just aren't the smartest. All These groups combined with smaller one have around 450- 600 Volunteers. That's about how many the PIRA had during the mid 80's - late 90's. The difference being the Provos could afford to pick & choose their Vols who were of very high caliber. The dissidents just may do with what they have who aren't great & amateurish.

The only thing dissidents have going or them with their different groups who alone have very small numbers maks then alot harder to infiltrate.

.jacksparrow.

pO1Neil wrote: »

I have a theory about RIRA, CIRA,"New" IRA & ONH. Their leaderships just aren't the smartest. All These groups combined with smaller one have around 450- 600 Volunteers. That's about how many the PIRA had during the mid 80's - late 90's. The difference being the Provos could afford to pick & choose their Vols who were of very high caliber. The dissidents just may do with what they have who aren't great & amateurish.

The only thing dissidents have going or them with their different groups who alone have very small numbers maks then alot harder to infiltrate.

Sure they're riddled with touts, won't be around much longer fortunately.

valor rorghulis

They didn't intend to kill anyone that day, it was an economic target. Its just the kind of fools who join that organisation, were well, fools.

So targeting Omagh (which by the way is a mixed town) is the same as them targeting Derry or Newry today.

Lastlight.

pO1Neil wrote: »

What do you mean by their "own" people. The Irish Republican movement began with liberal protestants.

Those guys would not accept the Republican movement now which is anti Orange and all things Protestant.

tomwaterford

pO1Neil wrote: »

I have a theory about RIRA, CIRA,"New" IRA & ONH. Their leaderships just aren't the smartest. All These groups combined with smaller one have around 450- 600 Volunteers. That's about how many the PIRA had during the mid 80's - late 90's. The difference being the Provos could afford to pick & choose their Vols who were of very high caliber. The dissidents just may do with what they have who aren't great & amateurish.

The only thing dissidents have going or them with their different groups who alone have very small numbers maks then alot harder to infiltrate.

the problem is with the british forcing the DUP to share power kinda effectively killed the militant dissident movement (not that they don't highlight some quite serious political/social issues)

they struggle with capacity to detonate bomb and justify some/most violences as with trust as its widely viewed that the british deliberately moved people towards the omagh bomb (but who would believe/give credence to that theory though:rolleyes:)

the PIRA was hard to infiltrate its just it was infiltrated after Enniskillen bomb at a high level and with tightening command to prevent political damageing attacks led to a mass weakening of it

that being said there is nothing to say they wont get traction in 15-20 years as a need for a UI referendum comes into view and the british try their tricks/hinted promises to fool unionists to vote no (see britin hinting at giving Scotland jobs building boats for its navy...essentially promising jobs to most deprived communities.)

ChicagoJoe

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The same reason Muslim extremists were happy to kill Muslims on 9/11, they believe their goal, their ideals, are more important than anything else. Even someone's life.

Not their own lives, obviously, but the lives of others.

You didn't have to go looking for Muslims in the middle east to take as an example, you could look much closer to home like when the SAS were happy to make bombs for the loyalists to blow up Xmas shoppers on Talbot St Dublin 1974. All out of some warped sense of adventure for the macho men of the SAS where they believe their goal, their ideals, are more important than anything else.

ChicagoJoe

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

Unfortunatley the actions by those in the RUC leadership that day who instructed that the people should be moved right into the area of the bomb raises some very serious questions. Police Ombudsman Nuala O'Loan published a report on that strongly criticised the RUC over its handling of the bombing investigation. Her report stated that RUC officers had ignored the previous warnings about a bomb and had failed to act on crucial intelligence. She went on to say that officers had been uncooperative and defensive during her inquiry. The report concluded that, "The victims, their families, the people of Omagh and officers of the RUC were let down by defective leadership, poor judgement and a lack of urgency."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7606834.stm

joe swanson

Really don't get people blaming psni or British or Irish intel. The reason people were killed is that the people that did this are cold blooded evil murdering scum.

Its that simple. End of.

Fratton Fred

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Unfortunatley the actions by those in the RUC leadership that day who instructed that the people should be moved right into the area of the bomb raises some very serious questions. Police Ombudsman Nuala O'Loan published a report on that strongly criticised the RUC over its handling of the bombing investigation. Her report stated that RUC officers had ignored the previous warnings about a bomb and had failed to act on crucial intelligence. She went on to say that officers had been uncooperative and defensive during her inquiry. The report concluded that, "The victims, their families, the people of Omagh and officers of the RUC were let down by defective leadership, poor judgement and a lack of urgency."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7606834.stm

That's it, change the subject.

Making excuses for the biggest atrocity during or post troubles.

Sad in the extreme.

Fratton Fred

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

You didn't have to go looking for Muslims in the middle east to take as an example, you could look much closer to home like when the SAS were happy to make bombs for the loyalists to blow up Xmas shoppers on Talbot St Dublin 1974. All out of some warped sense of adventure for the macho men of the SAS where they believe their goal, their ideals, are more important than anything else.

Yeah, whatever.

Delusional post once again.

maccored

Fantastic debating technique there Fred. There is a point to be answered about the Omagh bomb and how the RUC dealt with it, regardless of the flippant comments. When I was a kid at school, whenever there was a bombscare in Omagh, they used to send us down to the bus depot. I cant remember how many bombscares there were in the 70s and 80s, but there were quite a few. every single time people were sent to the bus depot. Funny instead of doing that at the time of the omagh bomb, people were send to the place were the bomb is. I'm not insinuating it was done on purpose - but I do find it strange. Ergo - there are questions to be answered. Plus my sister met a cop outside the courthouse about 5 mins before the bomb went off. She even remarked that day that she found it strange that she was able to get so close to it, considering at the time the RUC apparently thought thats where the bomb was going to go off (she didnt know that when she was walking down John Street obviously). Again - no insinuations, but certainly reasons for questions.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Yeah, whatever.

Delusional post once again.

Fratton Fred

maccored wrote: »

Fantastic debating technique there Fred. There is a point to be answered about the Omagh bomb and how the RUC dealt with it, regardless of the flippant comments. When I was a kid at school, whenever there was a bombscare in Omagh, they used to send us down to the bus depot. I cant remember how many bombscares there were in the 70s and 80s, but there were quite a few. every single time people were sent to the bus depot. Funny instead of doing that at the time of the omagh bomb, people were send to the place were the bomb is. I'm not insinuating it was done on purpose - but I do find it strange. Ergo - there are questions to be answered. Plus my sister met a cop outside the courthouse about 5 mins before the bomb went off. She even remarked that day that she found it strange that she was able to get so close to it, considering at the time the RUC apparently thought thats where the bomb was going to go off (she didnt know that when she was walking down John Street obviously). Again - no insinuations, but certainly reasons for questions.

Fantastic quoting technique.

The RUC may have questions regarding their handling of it, but the only reason that is mentioned on this thread is to divert from the question at hand. Why did the IRA bomb their own people?

tomwaterford

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Fantastic quoting technique.

The RUC may have questions regarding their handling of it, but the only reason that is mentioned on this thread is to divert from the question at hand. Why did the IRA bomb their own people?

this is a good and interesting question....why did dissidents bomb the only town in which a dissident conciller was standing and elected???

(all this time that dissidents were a lot stronger than they have been ever since)

indeed why was BA told to be confined to barracks that day...and why was recording of bomb warning never realeased to kill the conspiracy theory in the water before it took off

the bomb to end all bombs thory isn't beyond belief (knowing british security actics thoughout what is increasing revealed to be a pariculary dirty war)

*this doesn't excuse the bombing of town centres.....indeed I have read interviews of dissidents who cite what happened in omagh for there seeming lack of enthusiasm for a return to what if done right could cripple the peace process...worse than any arresting Gerry adams:rolleyes::rolleyes:

maccored

I think its a bit obvious why the real ira bombed omagh. they wanted to disrupt the peace process.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Fantastic quoting technique.

The RUC may have questions regarding their handling of it, but the only reason that is mentioned on this thread is to divert from the question at hand. Why did the IRA bomb their own people?

Fratton Fred

maccored wrote: »

I think its a bit obvious why the real ira bombed omagh. they wanted to disrupt the peace process.

And the provisional IRA?

maccored

and when did they plant a bomb in omagh killing people? (in ref to what the OP asked)

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And the provisional IRA?

Fratton Fred

maccored wrote: »

and when did they plant a bomb in omagh killing people? (in ref to what the OP asked)

I would suggest that Omagh was purely an example, rather than a question about a specific incident

maccored

So to widen the question, you are asking what the conflict was about then? (to answer why the IRA were 'killing their own people'). no only are you expecting a simple answer - which is impossible (as you well know) - but you seem to want one in isolation, conveniently forgetting everyone else involved in the conflict.

I dont think you'll a handy sound byte sized answer to that one.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would suggest that Omagh was purely an example, rather than a question about a specific incident

Fratton Fred

maccored wrote: »

So to widen the question, you are asking what the conflict was about then? (to answer why the IRA were 'killing their own people'). no only are you expecting a simple answer - which is impossible (as you well know) - but you seem to want one in isolation, conveniently forgetting everyone else involved in the conflict.

I dont think you'll a handy sound byte sized answer to that one.

I gave my opinion, which prompted Chicago Joe to go off on some random rant about the sas bombing Dublin.

Which is about where you came in :-)

maccored

ah now fred. thats the weakest exit ever.

valor rorghulis

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Unfortunatley the actions by those in the RUC leadership that day who instructed that the people should be moved right into the area of the bomb raises some very serious questions. Police Ombudsman Nuala O'Loan published a report on that strongly criticised the RUC over its handling of the bombing investigation. Her report stated that RUC officers had ignored the previous warnings about a bomb and had failed to act on crucial intelligence. She went on to say that officers had been uncooperative and defensive during her inquiry. The report concluded that, "The victims, their families, the people of Omagh and officers of the RUC were let down by defective leadership, poor judgement and a lack of urgency."

The link you posted had nothing to do with people being moved into the area. The RUC leadership didn't move them there, it was brave beat officers of the RUC doing their bloody best trying to deal with republicans sending in dodgy warnings because they were so incompetant and inconsiderate they didn't give a damn how many people died that day.

maccored

No matter what way you dice it, its a fact people were moved to the area that contained the bomb. If you know Omagh, you'll know that area of market street has high buildings on each side, and when it comes to bombs, you want to move people to places where the chances of buildings falling on them are pretty slim. i still wonder (and would love an answer) to why people were moved to there and not the bus depot, where people were normally sent to (which is a clear flat area with a carpark and no high buildings).

valor rorghulis wrote: »

The link you posted had nothing to do with people being moved into the area. The RUC leadership didn't move them there, it was brave beat officers of the RUC doing their bloody best trying to deal with republicans sending in dodgy warnings because they were so incompetant and inconsiderate they didn't give a damn how many people died that day.

Fratton Fred

maccored wrote: »

No matter what way you dice it, its a fact people were moved to the area that contained the bomb. If you know Omagh, you'll know that area of market street has high buildings on each side, and when it comes to bombs, you want to move people to places where the chances of buildings falling on them are pretty slim. i still wonder (and would love an answer) to why people were moved to there and not the bus depot, where people were normally sent to (which is a clear flat area with a carpark and no high buildings).

Did the warning not state the bomb was in the opposite direction though?

valor rorghulis

maccored wrote: »

No matter what way you dice it, its a fact people were moved to the area that contained the bomb. If you know Omagh, you'll know that area of market street has high buildings on each side, and when it comes to bombs, you want to move people to places where the chances of buildings falling on them are pretty slim. i still wonder (and would love an answer) to why people were moved to there and not the bus depot, where people were normally sent to (which is a clear flat area with a carpark and no high buildings).

perhaps because the warning was given that the bomb was going off in 15 min and they were moving people as fast as possible based on a warning it was near the court house

your insinuation that the ruc deliberately moved people into bomb blast is not only vile bit also really stupid, the idea that dozens of low level constables could be sworn to perpetual silence on the matter is so daft i cant believe you would post it

ChicagoJoe

valor rorghulis wrote: »

The link you posted had nothing to do with people being moved into the area. The RUC leadership didn't move them there, it was brave beat officers of the RUC doing their bloody best trying to deal with republicans sending in dodgy warnings because they were so incompetant and inconsiderate they didn't give a damn how many people died that day.

The RUC leadership ordered their officers to move the people right into the area of the bomb, if that isn't moving them there I don't know what is If we have to chose between the views of Ombudsman and the now thankfully disbanded RUC, then their can be no doubt who is trying to expose the truth of that terrible day and who is trying to cover it up for their own agenda.

" Mr Justice Reg Weir not only found Sean Hoey, a 38-year-old electrician from south Armagh, not guilty on a total of 56 charges yesterday, but also severely criticised prosecution witnesses.He said two police officers had told untruths in a deliberate attempt to "beef up" their statements. He said two witnesses had taken part in "a deliberate and calculated deception" which meant it was impossible for him to accept anything they said........The RUC was heavily criticised in a major report by the former ombudsman Nuala O'Loan, who declared several years ago: "The judgement and leadership has been seriously flawed. The victims, their families, the people of Omagh and officers of the RUC were let down by defective leadership, poor judgement and a lack of urgency."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/judge-condemns-police-as-only-man-to-be-tried-for-omagh-bombing-is-acquitted-766424.html

ChicagoJoe

valor rorghulis wrote: »

perhaps because the warning was given that the bomb was going off in 15 min and they were moving people as fast as possible based on a warning it was near the court house

your insinuation that the ruc deliberately moved people into bomb blast is not only vile bit also really stupid, the idea that dozens of low level constables could be sworn to perpetual silence on the matter is so daft i cant believe you would post it

The same RUC deliberately murdered the first people starting off the troubles as they attacked the civil rights marches and led unionist mobs to attack the Bogside, Falls Road etc. Not exactly comparable to say they were a proper police force like those in England or the Guards in the south. More like a unionist militia to whom a RIRA "own goal" in Omagh would have suited their agenda.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/chron/1969.html

Lastlight.

Why do bears **** in the woods? Everyone knows they were cold blooded lunatics. Thankfully they surrendered in 1998.

flutered

so another anti ira thread started by and abetted by a poster with low post count, then add in another anit poster, i wonder why i keep posting the obvious.

tomwaterford

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did the warning not state the bomb was in the opposite direction though?

this is the main issue...they had a recording of the bomb warning as late as 2005....why would they not release it???

surly it would serve british and damage the ira to release it??


or are they hiding a collossul f**k-up.... ??

Fratton Fred

tomwaterford wrote: »

this is the main issue...they had a recording of the bomb warning as late as 2005....why would they not release it???

surly it would serve british and damage the ira to release it??


or are they hiding a collossul f**k-up.... ??

The bomb warnings were not phoned in to the police though, unless the Samaritans are in on the conspiracy as well.

Lastlight.

flutered wrote: »

so another anti ira thread started by and abetted by a poster with low post count, then add in another anit poster, i wonder why i keep posting the obvious.

Some people want to hide the truth about these murdering lunatics.

twowheelsgood

flutered wrote: »

so another anti ira thread started by and abetted by a poster with low post count, then add in another anit poster, i wonder why i keep posting the obvious.

First, the vast, vast majority of people were anti-IRA. We are not a minuscule grouping of cranks that would fit in the proverbial phone box.

Second, this obvious thing that you have to keep pointing out (but don’t actually point out!) is I presume along the lines of there being an orchestrated campaign (by who?) to (presumably?) damage Sinn Fein?

Anybody who is remotely clued in will know that attempts to damage SF by recalling past deeds of the PIRA is utterly futile - their supporters do not care. Simple as. I cannot think on what front you might go after SF (perhaps economic policy?) if you want to hurt them but it would not be their links to PIRA. Some even argue that such attempts are actually counter-productive.

Part of the reason for their success in deflecting this issue is their effective use of an imagined (or real, it doesn’t matter) media conspiracy. It is by no means a strategy unique to them - it is used the world over in all manners of domain (look at Luis Suarez’s “people” at work!)

Ironically, and perhaps inadvertently, your own post(s) serve to further instil this conspiracy complex.

maccored

Had you actually bothered reading my posts, you would know I am not insinuating anything. I just want to know why they moved peopel to the area the bomb was in. considering thats what happened, it not a 'stupid' question to ask. As I already mentioned, the area people have ALWAYS been sent to in Omagh is the bus depot, so it doesnt really matter about the warning being about the courthouse or about how long they had to move people. If people went down Bridge St rather than market Street, they would have got to the bus depot quicker anyway.

Still - my postulations are one thing - your inability to read posts is something altogether different.

valor rorghulis wrote: »

perhaps because the warning was given that the bomb was going off in 15 min and they were moving people as fast as possible based on a warning it was near the court house

your insinuation that the ruc deliberately moved people into bomb blast is not only vile bit also really stupid, the idea that dozens of low level constables could be sworn to perpetual silence on the matter is so daft i cant believe you would post it

Nidgeweasel

WhiteWalls wrote: »

I am the first to admit that I don't know much about the troubles but I have one question. Why would the IRA plant a bomb in Omagh in their own land and killing their own people?

Because they are cúnts?