Cycling is like a minefield

Pat Custard

As I said, cycling is like a minefield.

I recently did some cycling around Dublin and it really means taking your life into your hands. I've done my fair share of bitching about cyclists but motorists can be just as bad.

I've seen:

People swinging open doors without looking
Cars swerving without looking / indicating
cars intimidating cyclists

not to mention the annoyance of people jogging in cycle lanes and cars parked there

not yet

Pat Custard wrote: »

As I said, cycling is like a minefield.

I recently did some cycling around Dublin and it really means taking your life into your hands. I've done my fair share of bitching about cyclists but motorists can be just as bad.

I've seen:

People swinging open doors without looking
Cars swerving without looking / indicating
cars intimidating cyclists

not to mention the annoyance of people jogging in cycle lanes and cars parked there

Jesus Joe it does be terrible the things that go on.


Tell us caller, do they be openin the door on the purpose do you think.

Gi joe!

Yes it can be dicey at the best of times. Where there are dedicated cycle lanes like on the Grand Canal Quay it's not so bad, but in the heart of town be prepared to brake hard at a moment's notice.

However if you cycle defensively and keep your wits about you(always assume the very worst from cars, pedestrians and other cyclists), you'll be fine 99% of the time.

moonshadow

And so the milkman moves from motors to cycling .......hmmm

deandean

you could get a helmet cam and make a series of videos showing bad driving by motorists, post them on youtube. And be sure to give the drivers a good rollicking.

Pat Custard

moonshadow wrote: »

And so the milkman moves from motors to cycling .......hmmm

I enjoy driving and I admitted in my OP that I often gave out about cyclists, but now that I've cycled I see what they have to deal with. What issue have you got exactly?

fat bloke

Pat Custard wrote: »

I enjoy driving and I admitted in my OP that I often gave out about cyclists, but now that I've cycled I see what they have to deal with.

Fair play to you. Welcome to the other side.

It's just such a pity each and every person has to be converted one at a time. Every driver in the country should be prescribed 30 seconds down the quays on a bike and the problem would be solved.:rolleyes:

Zen0

fat bloke wrote: »

Fair play to you. Welcome to the other side.

+1 on that. The more drivers who cycle the better. It's the only way a driver can fully understand the cyclists' perspective.

By the way OP, cycling is pretty safe if you cycle defensively, though not everyone in here would agree with that viewpoint. Just always assume that other road users will do something stupid, and prepare yourself, position yourself, and adopt an appropriate speed on that basis.

tomasrojo

I have to say I really enjoy cycling around town, and rarely have any unpleasant experiences. I do not cycle all that often around rush hour at the moment though. Defensive cycling definitely helps a lot, and remembering that discretion is the better part of valour.

Zen0

fat bloke wrote: »

Fair play to you. Welcome to the other side.

+1 on that. The more drivers who cycle the better. It's the only way a driver can fully understand the cyclists' perspective.

By the way OP, cycling is pretty safe if you cycle defensively, though not everyone in here would agree with that viewpoint. Just always assume that other road users will do something stupid, and prepare yourself, position yourself, and adopt an appropriate speed on that basis.

Mercian Pro

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have to say I really enjoy cycling around town, and rarely have any unpleasant experiences. I do not cycle all that often around rush hour at the moment though. Defensive cycling definitely helps a lot, and remembering that discretion is the better part of valour.

I find drivers' behaviour to be a bit more predictable at rush hour. Most of them are plodding along wondering when the lights will change or what song that was on 104. If you are prepared to stay fully focused, have good brakes and don't suffer from claustrophobia (between buses), it's managable most of the time. In between rush hours, there's actually a lot more rushing going on with guys changing lanes trying to gain a mili-second or two.

not yet

Pat Custard wrote: »

I enjoy driving and I admitted in my OP that I often gave out about cyclists, but now that I've cycled I see what they have to deal with. What issue have you got exactly?

You only know the half of it...

I honestly believe some motorists take great joy in pissing past you you at 80km an hour just inches from you, in saying that some will give you 2-3 feet and wait until road is clear, I'm talking about back roads and secondary roads.

Wishbone Ash

not yet wrote: »

You only know the half of it...

I honestly believe some motorists take great joy in pissing past you you at 80km an hour just inches from you, in saying that some will give you 2-3 feet and wait until road is clear, I'm talking about back roads and secondary roads.

+1

Cycling in rural Ireland is much more intimidating. Motorists don't seem to be accustomed to cyclists. I rarely experience any difficulties in the city center and I spend a fair bit of time there.

nealcassidy

deandean wrote: »

you could get a helmet cam and make a series of videos showing bad driving by motorists, post them on youtube. And be sure to give the drivers a good rollicking.

I wouldnt recommend you post them on youtube, Thats kind of defamatory. Imagine if we all start carrying cameras when we walk and put them on youtube.

Of course if you are in an accident and you have the camera it does the trick, but posting on youtube everytime a minor thing happens isnt the way to go

nealcassidy

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

+1

Cycling in rural Ireland is much more intimidating. Motorists don't seem to be accustomed to cyclists. I rarely experience any difficulties in the city center and I spend a fair bit of time there.

What i hate is when there is a car coming against you and a car from behind over takes you in between the car coming against you. very dangerous.

On the country roads i always go on a saturday morning. never a sunday or bank holiday because people could be driving home still with drink in them.

Those country roads are very dangerous though.

John_Rambo

The only time I got in to trouble was when I was young, dumb, dangerous and subconsciously (or consciously on occasion) looking for trouble, I was very righteous. Now, with age and more experience city cycling at speed or at a leisurely pace is a doddle, safe and trouble free.

Plenty of youtube helmet cam videos of cyclists "within their rights" catching people out of line. But these incidents are easily avoided with a bit of patience and proper road reading.

beauf

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I find drivers' behaviour to be a bit more predictable at rush hour. Most of them are plodding along wondering when the lights will change or what song that was on 104. If you are prepared to stay fully focused, have good brakes and don't suffer from claustrophobia (between buses), it's managable most of the time. In between rush hours, there's actually a lot more rushing going on with guys changing lanes trying to gain a mili-second or two.

I think the same. Peak time its much easier. Traffic moves slower. Stuck in queues.

R1_Pete

Gi joe! wrote: »

Yes it can be dicey at the best of times. Where there are dedicated cycle lanes like on the Grand Canal Quay it's not so bad, but in the heart of town be prepared to brake hard at a moment's notice.

However if you cycle defensively and keep your wits about you(always assume the very worst from cars, pedestrians and other cyclists), you'll be fine 99% of the time.

I cycle a fair bit. Commuting mostly and it's treacherous. I also ride a motorbike and its worse.. Same sh*t but at higher speed.

You really have to think and ride like every other person on the road is oblivious to you or out to hit you.

nealcassidy

R1_Pete wrote: »

I cycle a fair bit. Commuting mostly and it's treacherous. I also ride a motorbike and its worse.. Same sh*t but at higher speed.

You really have to think and ride like every other person on the road is oblivious to you or out to hit you.

they get frustrated when they are stuck behind a cyclist. i was turning right at a junction once and they started beebing at me for holding them up, cause the kerb stopped them from passing inside me.

I think they have road rage and cant tolerate being slowed down.

Ive also had cars shoot out as i went down a hill.

Paddigol

Funny that. I commute every day - 55k round trip - and I rarely have an incident, issue, or cause for complaint with motorists. I also fly around town most days on a Dublin bike - up and down the quays a lot. Same story. My road rage is mostly caused by other cyclists. Maybe I'm very tolerant and/ or foolishly optimistic of my own mortality!

Lusk_Doyle

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

+1

Cycling in rural Ireland is much more intimidating. Motorists don't seem to be accustomed to cyclists. I rarely experience any difficulties in the city center and I spend a fair bit of time there.

I spend most of my rides in rural ncd and meath and have rarely had an issue bar the odd close call. Mind you, the same applies for when I'm riding in Dublin.

Driving on the other hand, and I do A LOT of it...

krissovo

Jesus lads, I now work in Dublin and I now feel I was blessed with great cycling roads in north cork. +\- 15 mins after the school run = no traffic! seriously a 60k cycle and would encounter a max of 40 cars with the average of 15 on the back roads . OMG, 10 mins on the coast road tonight and there was queues forming and at least 60 cars passed me and lots of aggression.

Wishbone Ash

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I spend most of my rides in rural ncd and meath and have rarely had an issue bar the odd close call.

NCD and Meath are generally fine. In some counties motorists seem to take pleasure in passing at speed with inches to spare - Donegal being head and shoulders above the rest in my experience.

Bloggsie

nealcassidy wrote: »

What i hate is when there is a car coming against you and a car from behind over takes you in between the car coming against you. very dangerous.

On the country roads i always go on a saturday morning. never a sunday or bank holiday because people could be driving home still with drink in them.

Those country roads are very dangerous though.

morning nealcassidy, i have to disagree with your comments that country roads are dangerous & regarding people driving on a sunday after being out the nite before is nonsense, people do drink on a friday too!
If you use an simple equation that less cars on the road will decrease the percentage chance of having an issue with a car, there is by far greater numbers of cars in cities than on country roads therfore less chance of being involved in an incident on a country road than in a city.

Bloggsie

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

NCD and Meath are generally fine. In some counties motorists seem to take pleasure in passing at speed with inches to spare - Donegal being head and shoulders above the rest in my experience.

after being in a car driving to Donegal town I would never cycle in Donegal, the other road users seemed to be playing a game called scare the Sh1t out of anyone that doesnt have a DL plate, over taken & under taken on the hard shoulder at the same time(by a mitsubishi canter van & a souped up subaru something or other).
Its a pity because Im sure that there are some fantastic routes in donegal for cycling.

ford2600

Bloggsie wrote: »

after being in a car driving to Donegal town I would never cycle in Donegal, the other road users seemed to be playing a game called scare the Sh1t out of anyone that doesnt have a DL plate, over taken & under taken on the hard shoulder at the same time(by a mitsubishi canter van & a souped up subaru something or other).
Its a pity because Im sure that there are some fantastic routes in donegal for cycling.

It's a long haul up there but great place to cycle.

On the driving, it seems to come at a cost or at least did. Had a chat with a part time fireman from Inishowen last year and he had a lot of horror stories on car accidents; seems to have eased off in last few years.
Exodus of young people or change in behaviour he wasn't sure which

John_Rambo

krissovo wrote: »

OMG, 10 mins on the coast road tonight and there was queues forming and at least 60 cars passed me and lots of aggression.

Where was this?

CramCycle

Gi joe! wrote: »

Yes it can be dicey at the best of times. Where there are dedicated cycle lanes like on the Grand Canal Quay it's not so bad, but in the heart of town be prepared to brake hard at a moment's notice.

I think that cycle lane is one of the worst places to cycle, lights that 99% of people ignore, cyclists swinging in from the road when they have a red, peds shouldering each other in front of you, no one giving anyone else due courtesy. I find it to be the most horrific experience of my commute.

A bit of advice for a newcomer to city cycling

Pat Custard wrote: »

People swinging open doors without looking

Cycle out of door zone, if you must, make sure to slow/move out whenever you see someone sitting by the door you are about to pass.

Cars swerving without looking / indicating

Always (and this goes for whatever vehicle you are in or on in Dublin) expect your fellow road users to do the stupidest thing possible and react accordingly.

not to mention the annoyance of people jogging in cycle lanes and cars parked there

Merge out after looking behind to check it is safe and having indicated in plenty of time and go around, if you let this annoy you too much you will do yourself damage. Of course if you have time and are not worried about the reaction, stop your bike, and let them now as they go past what an annoying tw*t they are.

ednwireland

Bloggsie wrote: »

after being in a car driving to Donegal town I would never cycle in Donegal, the other road users seemed to be playing a game called scare the Sh1t out of anyone that doesnt have a DL plate, over taken & under taken on the hard shoulder at the same time(by a mitsubishi canter van & a souped up subaru something or other).
Its a pity because Im sure that there are some fantastic routes in donegal for cycling.

never have much problem myself ...... (i cycle a fair bit in donegal)

Koobcam

You lads should try cycling in Beijing - It's like a video game. Multiply the number of cars, people etc by about 1,000 and everyone driving like either a boy racer or an old granny in either powerful new German cars or clapped out vans whose brakes probably don;t work very well, with no-one ever checking their mirrors, or in fact looking at any point behind their field of vision.

buffalo

fat bloke wrote: »

Fair play to you. Welcome to the other side.

It's just such a pity each and every person has to be converted one at a time. Every driver in the country should be prescribed 30 seconds down the quays on a bike and the problem would be solved.:rolleyes:

Did you write this? http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/simulated-driving-tests-1.1826134

Tenzor07

Pat Custard wrote: »

As I said, cycling is like a minefield.

Ah it's not really Ted!

So long as you're willing to accept the risks of being a road user in the 6th most congested city in Dublin then you'll do fine.

tomasrojo

Bloggsie wrote: »

If you use an simple equation that less cars on the road will decrease the percentage chance of having an issue with a car, there is by far greater numbers of cars in cities than on country roads therfore less chance of being involved in an incident on a country road than in a city.

but bear in mind that the average speed in an urban area is much lower, so the chance ofa collision being severe or fatal is much lower. (Kinetic energy increases as a square of speed.)

Tenzor07

It was a minefield for this guy, who dared to stop at a red light! :eek:

cyclist-who-refuses-to-run-red-light-in-dorchester-punched-in-face

Lumen

If cycling is a minefield and love is a battlefield, does that mean cycling is what you're left with when all the love has died or gone home?

CramCycle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It was a minefield for this guy, who dared to stop at a red light! :eek:

cyclist-who-refuses-to-run-red-light-in-dorchester-punched-in-face

I have seen it in Dublin as well where stopping on Red gives some drivers the impression you are purposely blocking their path?!? I have been beeped and threatened about it before. Your damned when you follow the rules, your damned when you don't.

Bloggsie

buffalo wrote: »

Did you write this? http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/simulated-driving-tests-1.1826134

morning buffalo, no I didnt, but I do know that the rock road in blackrock is crazy as I lived in blackrock for 30 years. Between school moms pulling across the bus lane in willow park without indicating & buses up yere jacksie from Mt Merrion Avenue to Booterstown Avenue its an unnerving experience

Celly Smunt

Dame street is the worst I find, there is enough space for 2 lanes but no road maekings for cars so the majority of the time taxis are all over the road trying to cut past everything leaving no space to get through.

Also that stupid Georges street/Dame street junction that seems to be a free for all for pedestrians.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

I have seen it in Dublin as well where stopping on Red gives some drivers the impression you are purposely blocking their path?!? I have been beeped and threatened about it before. Your damned when you follow the rules, your damned when you don't.

I've been taken to task for it. Twice, I think. But that's over years and years.

Tenzor07

CramCycle wrote: »

I have seen it in Dublin as well where stopping on Red gives some drivers the impression you are purposely blocking their path?!? I have been beeped and threatened about it before. Your damned when you follow the rules, your damned when you don't.

Which would lead me to think that someone in a car/van/bus doesn't give a flying football if a cyclist stops at a Red light or not, so long as the bicyclist is not in there way when the green light goes..
I do think city center traffic lights should have an "advanced green" for bicyclists to give a 10 second headstart...

CramCycle

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Which would lead me to think that someone in a car/van/bus doesn't give a flying football if a cyclist stops at a Red light or not, so long as the bicyclist is not in there way when the green light goes..
I do think city center traffic lights should have an "advanced green" for bicyclists to give a 10 second headstart...

If you run it your a law breaker who has no right to the road, you obey it and your willfully obstructing traffic*. I always find such actions funny in hindsight though as it has been a long time on my route to work that a car could clear a junction quicker than me when the light flicks green. Even those that roll forward, revving the engine anticipating the change, inevitably are looking around to see will they get away with it that they don't notice the change when it happens. To be fair if I provide them with a way to vent their frustrations before they go home, and I don't get hurt, so be it, I have probably saved a child or spouse from a beating**.

* not my view just what I imagine the opinion of a minority is.
** overly dramatic bullsh1t

check_six

It takes a bit of getting used to switching from the car to the bike. The cloak of invisibility effect is quite startling in contrast between the two modes of transport. Even if you are spotted, a lot of people treat you as if you have been painted onto a backdrop, and aren't moving rapidly towards them. However, once you realise this, and take it easy at first while getting used to it, getting around is no problem at all.

If you develop some powerful latent psychic abilities, that will help too. Telepathy is useful, but not if the thoughts you pick up are the equivalent of tumbleweed rolling across a plain. Pre-cognition is also helpful, but you'll develop this with experience anyway. So it's pyrokinesis for the win really!

This morning I was about to zip up the cycle track to pass a bus in a row of slow traffic and my spidey-senses started tingling. I jammed on and watched with a very mild sense of surprise as the bus lurched across the track with no signal. I switched to pass outside the bus and avoided any unpleasantness. The guy driving the bus looked kinda familiar, like guy from video from last week familiar, but it couldn't be him, could it??

No Pants

nealcassidy wrote: »

I wouldnt recommend you post them on youtube, Thats kind of defamatory. Imagine if we all start carrying cameras when we walk and put them on youtube.

Do you mean that it's inflammatory? I'm struggling to see how posting someone elses public actions on YouTube would be defamatory.

CramCycle

No Pants wrote: »

Do you mean that it's inflammatory? I'm struggling to see how posting someone elses public actions on YouTube would be defamatory.

Suppose it would depend on wether it was edited or not, if the video is edited to leave out important contributing factors or to clearly paint the person in a poor light unfairly. There are several YT posters who do this. A good (although made up example) is the car accident in Malcolm in the middle. The mother pulls out of a side road and collides with a car. The video from the store clearly shows her not paying attention and driving out into traffic. Could not be clearer. What is seen from the store camera on the far side of the street shows that the car she hit had just done an illegal U turn and actually hit her. Without the second video, it would be defamatory as it paints the mother as a terribly unsafe driver.

Shedite27

Zen0 wrote: »

+1 on that. The more drivers who cycle the better. It's the only way a driver can fully understand the cyclists' perspective.

Totally agree with this.

CramCycle wrote: »

I have seen it in Dublin as well where stopping on Red gives some drivers the impression you are purposely blocking their path?!? I have been beeped and threatened about it before. Your damned when you follow the rules, your damned when you don't.

I've seen a few instances of this on my commute recently, where a cyclist is going stright on, so is waiting for straight green, but there's a green filter lane left. If the cyclist doesn't reposition himself to the second lane, he ends up blocking the filter. Saw a bus driver give out yarns to a cyclist recently about this.

2 examples....
http://goo.gl/maps/RUZTa
http://goo.gl/maps/hAAbH

As you can see in the second link, if the cyclist stays in the bike lane, they essentially block the left turning vehicles.

CramCycle

Shedite27 wrote: »

Totally agree with this.
I've seen a few instances of this on my commute recently, where a cyclist is going stright on, so is waiting for straight green, but there's a green filter lane left. If the cyclist doesn't reposition himself to the second lane, he ends up blocking the filter. Saw a bus driver give out yarns to a cyclist recently about this.

2 examples....
http://goo.gl/maps/RUZTa
http://goo.gl/maps/hAAbH

As you can see in the second link, if the cyclist stays in the bike lane, they essentially block the left turning vehicles.

I know the second one well, they had for a time solved this issue here by stopping the filter coming on early and the filter only came on with the straight ahead. This though then caused a backlog from the junction before which is why I presume it is back like this. This in my view is clearly the fault of road planners. At the previous junction the lanes all move right by one but the cycle lane remains to the left instead of merging right with all other traffic. I always position my self to the right of the lane if there is a red here but I see cyclists caught out by this all the time and I am pretty sure I was caught out a few times years ago. Quite surprised at the lack of collisions here as you often see car drivers trying to hook around cyclists waiting.

Bloggsie

While I dont cycle in Dublin City Centre, I do in Co. Kildare/Co. Meath/Co Wicklow and I do agree with that some other road users treat cyclists as nothing more than an annoyance, that being said some cyclists need to cop on, as previously posted, i have seen cyclists in the city centre break red lights (liberty hall/tara st junction every evening without fail). While its easy as a cyclist to have a go at other road users if cyclists as a whole want to raise the matter of poor behaviour by motorists we cant be giving them a stick to hit us with!

CramCycle

Bloggsie wrote: »

While its easy as a cyclist to have a go at other road users if cyclists as a whole want to raise the matter of poor behaviour by motorists we cant be giving them a stick to hit us with!

Your statement though pretty much amplifies the problem though, I don't think I give anyone a stick to hit me with, and it annoys me when I see someone acting wrecklessly but its not me, and it should not give other road users the right to berate me for the actions of another.

The sooner everyone can have the clarity to see that it is not all cyclists, or all DB drivers, or all taxis, or all WVMs etc. the better it will be for all.

The sooner FPNs and proper enforcement for all road users are properly implemented the better.

Tenzor07

CramCycle wrote: »

The sooner everyone can have the clarity to see that it is not all cyclists, or all DB drivers, or all taxis, or all WVMs etc. the better it will be for all.

Don't forget Jay-Walking pedestrians! They are lethal if one steps out in front of you on a bike, or if you have a green light yet a mass herd of peds keep on walking until a car arrives to scatter them..

Tombo2001

what I find curious here is that you have people doing identical things - cycling around Dublin - and having completely different experiences.....

...with some saying they've never had a problem, or encountered aggressive or dangerous driving and others saying they are seeing it on a near daily basis.

I think this can only come down to how people are defining dangerous driving.

CatFromHue

Tombo2001 wrote: »

what I find curious here is that you have people doing identical things - cycling around Dublin - and having completely different experiences.....

...with some saying they've never had a problem, or encountered aggressive or dangerous driving and others saying they are seeing it on a near daily basis.

I think this can only come down to how people are defining dangerous driving.

Northside = bad
Southside = good

:D

Only messing but it does depend on your route. Cycling the rock road into town you're going to interact with buses far more than if you cycle the coast road/cycle lane from Sutton into town.