Cellos, Ribbon mics and good old pre amps

Thomas from Presence

Hi guys,

I play a cello-like instrument, a guitarviol (long story...). It's very much like a cello sonically and I've been getting some OK results from an SE electronics condenser straight into my M-Audio Profire 610.

I do spend a lot of time EQing after tracking and multiple experiments in mic positioning have not yielded the smooth top range and complex upper mids of the the instrument in the room.

I noticed that a lot of folk are recording Cellos with ribbon microphones and are using additional tube pre-amps. I like the idea that a ribbon microphone is like the human ear in its approach - this the challenge for me. Getting the sound of the bowed string as it grows being projected from the instrument.

This is the best I've gotten so far. What do you think is the best way to capture a cello and do you think a mic pre and ribbon mic combo will better my situation?

Thanks in advance!

https://soundcloud.com/thomasbrunkard/elegie-pour-m-toland

fitz

Hey Tom,
I'd be less concerned with the top end and more to do with what's going on in the low and high mids, based on the sample you posted. While a ribbon will certainly smooth out your top end, you may find things sounding dull. I'd experiment with what you've got, and borrow a ribbon if you can before buying anything.

In terms of micing, I've gotten good sounds from a cello put putting a mic around the height of the neck joint, about 3 foot back from the instrument, and about a foot to the right, with the mic angled down towards the right soundhole. That's usually a good starting point and a little movement to tweak the sound will get me what I want. I'd look around the 300hz mark to see if there's any mud in there you can cut, then around the 1 - 3k region to find any harshness. I wouldn't be afraid to cut fairly significantly, as long as you're using a narrow Q.

Obviously, the sound of your room will play a big part in this. Work in the biggest space you can, with the highest ceilings.

Thomas from Presence

Tony I should have just hassled you on Facebook! I'm sure you're recording a cello right now! :P

Thanks for your help, that all makes perfect sense and correlates well with the successes I've had. You're a true gent!

T.

fitz

No worries Tom...not recording a cello right now, but just about to finalise the mix on an EP with some absolutely brilliant cello parts I did with Vyvienne Long!

Generally, not just for cello, if I find something is taking me a lot of EQ to get right, I scrap whatever processing I've done and start again.
Sometimes you cut the wrong thing and it takes you down a rabbit hole...
Doing a fresh pass on processing the raw track can help some times.
If that doesn't solve it, or it's a consistent thing that keeps happening, definitely experiment more with micing and look at re-tracking.

Also, the reverbs you use for this kind of thing can make or break it....
Grab this free set of impulse responses for a Bricasti M7...they're fantastic:

http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impulse-responses/

If you're not already doing so...stick your reverb(s) on an aux that you send to, rather than on the individual tracks....allows you to specifically EQ the reverbs too and deal with any mud or harshness they might be adding.

Thomas from Presence

You're absolutely right. If it's not good dry then it ain't good at all. This thing sounds huge in a room and I can get a fraction of that captured at source then I've won.

I'll check out those impulses. I always bus with reverbs - always sounds more natural as well as being more efficient processor wise. Thank you for all the help. You are a sainted scholar.

fitz

Thomas from Presence wrote: »

You're absolutely right. If it's not good dry then it ain't good at all. This thing sounds huge in a room and I can get a fraction of that captured at source then I've won.

I'll check out those impulses. I always bus with reverbs - always sounds more natural as well as being more efficient processor wise. Thank you for all the help. You are a sainted scholar.

I'd try moving the mic further away and higher maybe...

derekohara

Sorry if I hijacked the subject a bit. I have a B&H 400 Cello made in Czech Republic and I was wondering more or less how much it's worth. It's in perfect condition. I swapped a good Guitar of mine for it as I have a few Guitars and fancied learning how to play but I am now forced to Immigrate and must sell it!! Thanks in advance and sorry once again for intruding a bit!!