off-the-shelf PC (PC World ADVENT DT3415) vs. self-build

scaldoo · 09-06-2014 4:23pm #1

Hi All.

Newbie here - so please go easy on my lack of knowledge in this area.

My teens are looking for a new PC, predominantly for online gaming, but also the usual browsing, school projects etc - perhaps some music-making. They had been using an older Macbook until it died recently. My own (non-techie) computer experience is all Apple, so I'm a bit at sea.

From browsing, it appears the best bang-for-buck would be a self-build, but my lack of experience is putting me off that option. I know pretty much nowt re PC components, assembly, suppliers, warranty, diagnostics etc.

As a result, I'm more inclined to buy an off-the-shelf PC, from a retail supplier who can provide some degree of after-sales service.

Our max budget, inc monitor, keys etc is 1000 euro. Shopping around, Myself and the kids have seen the ADVENT DT3415 at PC World. (Can't post link here as I'm a newbie - but it's an easy google).

Does this model seem like a decent bet? Do PC World have a good rep? I'd appreciate any advice or general thoughts please?

Thanks in advance, Scaldoo.

uncle_sam_ie · 09-06-2014 4:32pm

OverclockersUK will build you a proper gaming PC for free and also give better support. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=43&catid=2473

scaldoo · 09-06-2014 7:04pm

Thanks Uncle Sam, I'll check them out in more detail. Anybody else any thoughts? Any recommends for similar sites to Overclockers? Or thoughts on the Advent PC?

briany · 09-06-2014 7:54pm

You probably wouldn't get too many people recommending an off the shelf PC because,

A - They're usually quite expensive in light of what you actually get for the money. So there's not much value for money to be had unless there's some sort of deal going.

B - They usually come with bloatware that you don't really need. By bloatware, I mean software that is installed by the manufacturer, i.e. trial versions of programs that no one uses and prompt you to buy or register every now and then.

C - They can be difficult to upgrade in the future because they sometimes use specially sized motherboards, sockets and cases making it hard to put in off the shelf parts that conform to standard sizes.

A self build is the best option in the value for money sense, but it's quite understandable how it can be intimidating and why it would put many people off. The truth is that you probably wouldn't save that much, though, over buying that PC off the shelf but you would gain a lot of knowledge and satisfaction, if that's worth anything. That PC you picked has a faster processor but the video card would be toward the mid/lower end of the performance spectrum, so it may leave something to be desired in new games. The PC I built two years ago for 800 had a faster card than that. A 2TB HD is pretty huge but do you need all that space?

A custom build would probably be the way to go for you, if self building is out of the question. You don't need to go online for it either, there's loads of little places around here that do custom builds. You give one a ring, tell them your budget, what you want the computer to be able to do and they give you a quote, and they'll give you post sale support as well.

Shiminay · 10-06-2014 12:12am

It's not a terribly good PC, old lower end graphics card (most important component for any gaming machine, already very dated), previous gen of the i7 (not a major issue in truth).

Overclockers are a very highly regarded site although as they're based in the UK, in a worst case scenario and something goes sideways, you'll have a slight delay in the to-and-fro as it'll have to be shipped back over there.

For that sort of money, you'd build a *REALLY* sweet machine that'll last at least 2 years longer than the Advent before needing some manner of upgrade.

uncle_sam_ie · 10-06-2014 5:14am

Is Bloodbath still building PC's?

Scaldoo if you have an interest in attempting it on your own then building PC is not a hard as you think it is. To be honest the hardest part is picking all the right components and we can help you there. If you can put together Ikea furniture you'll have no trouble building a PC. There are loads of video's on how to do it on Youtube like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls

scaldoo · 10-06-2014 7:42am

@briany; thanks so much - that's exactly the kind of overview info I needed. Any chance of a few links to some of those 'little places'?

@Shiminay; thanks for that. Overclockers could be a good option so?

@uncle_sam_ie; thanks again for that. I haven't totally ruled out a self-build, just a bit wary of things like bent pins, static, earthing etc. Will watch that vid.

Anybody interested in proposing a spec list? Would budget of 750/800 for the PC, 150/200 for monitor be about right? Obv if I can save a bit all the better.

Thanks all, really helpful crew here

Serephucus · 10-06-2014 11:22am

DERPY DERPFACE · 10-06-2014 11:46am

Pentium and 780

.
.
.
. herpy derpy derpface.

Serephucus · 10-06-2014 11:49am

It's a 3GHz dual core. Not saying it might not be bottlenecked a bit, but really, it should be fine. I've gamed on similar (Pentium G550) and a 670 with no problems at all.

DERPY DERPFACE · 10-06-2014 12:02pm

maybe something like this?
Screenshot%202014-06-08%2015.12.20.png

pillphil · 10-06-2014 12:21pm

It works if you right click and open in a new tab

TerrorFirmer · 10-06-2014 2:45pm

DERPY DERPFACE wrote: »

Pentium and 780

.
.
.
. herpy derpy derpface.

You'd actually be surprised, 90% of games would run fine without any bottlenecking.

DERPY DERPFACE · 10-06-2014 5:47pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

You'd actually be surprised, 90% of games would run fine without any bottlenecking.

Watch dogs.

Serephucus · 10-06-2014 6:08pm

DERPY DERPFACE wrote: »

Watch dogs.

Is brand-spanking new and still has driver problems to contend with. The vast majority of games out there (the only other one really being BF4, IIRC) only use two cores at most.

Now, it's of course very nice to have extra cores for background processes and the like, and no doubt future games will use more cores, and there's no denying that my build wasn't the most optimised in the world, but the fact remains that you can do a lot with two cores.

I'd much rather see a dual core 770 build than a 4670K/750Ti build, for instance.

DERPY DERPFACE · 11-06-2014 8:55am

Point taken but nowadays you would want at the least a hyperthreaded i3.

briany · 11-06-2014 12:32pm

scaldoo wrote: »

@briany; thanks so much - that's exactly the kind of overview info I needed. Any chance of a few links to some of those 'little places'?

It surprised me because I said there'd be places around with the naive assumption that there would be but Google doesn't seem to be throwing up much. In 2008, Computer Works out in Drumcondra did me a fairly cutting edge build for the time (1TB, Q6600, 9800 GTX, Vista.....changed to XP) for a grand with printer thrown in. I don't know if they still do builds (they seem to identify themselves as a repair place), though, but it might be worth calling just to see, if you live near enough. There's also custompc.ie, but I they seem to be regarded as cowboys. Any quote anyone gives you is worth bringing back here to be dissected.

To come back to the self build option for a moment, I didn't know how to build a computer. Then I watched these videos. Then I built a computer!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIXAtNGGCw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxaVBsXEiok

They really do explain everything clearly and assume that you're a novice and although the videos are three years old, nothing's really changed between then and now in the building process.

scaldoo · 11-06-2014 12:36pm

Thanks All. Greatly appreciate the interest and input.

You're losing me a bit with the back-and-forth comments re specs - please remember I'm a newbie to all this.

@Serephecus - thanks for that spec list. I don't see an i7 chip in there? Wouldn't that be a must-have?

I see you used hardwareversand for your list - would you recommend them as a supplier? Do they build the PC or supply separate components?

Briany had mentioned that there are places here (IRL?) that will build to spec/budget - anybody any recommends? Or should I be looking to UK or EU?

cheers, scaldoo

scaldoo · 11-06-2014 12:40pm

Hi Briany - I see you've just this minute (pre) answered my question

- much appreciated.

So far, Overclockers are looking like the way to go - good rep etc?

Am I correct in assuming the main ingredients to get right are the processor chip / video card / sound card combo?

thanks again all,

cheers, Scaldoo.

Serephucus · 11-06-2014 12:41pm

Main components you want are an SSD, and good video card. As long as you spend around €100 or more on an Intel chip, you'll be fine. A processor isn't actually that important beyond a point.

scaldoo · 11-06-2014 12:45pm

Thanks Serephecus - that's the kind of simple info I can process

Much appreciated.

uncle_sam_ie · 11-06-2014 2:14pm

scaldoo wrote: »

Hi Briany - I see you've just this minute (pre) answered my question - much appreciated.

So far, Overclockers are looking like the way to go - good rep etc?

Am I correct in assuming the main ingredients to get right are the processor chip / video card / sound card combo?

thanks again all,

cheers, Scaldoo.

The thing with OverclockersUK is that they have a webnote system so if you have a problem they'll try and sort the problem out on your end before you having to returning it. Kinda like Apple care. They also have an active forum you can use on their site. I've only bought components off them but the experience has been positive.
Hardwareversande can build it for you too for I think €20 extra. But, I wouldn't recommend it as they don't have a great rep for their builds. They are good if you want to build it yourself and your buying everything in one go because it is cheaper.
There is also Scan uk but, I've never bought from them so I couldn't you tell if they are good or not.

briany · 11-06-2014 3:21pm

scaldoo wrote: »

Thanks All. Greatly appreciate the interest and input.

You're losing me a bit with the back-and-forth comments re specs - please remember I'm a newbie to all this.

@Serephecus - thanks for that spec list. I don't see an i7 chip in there? Wouldn't that be a must-have?

I see you used hardwareversand for your list - would you recommend them as a supplier? Do they build the PC or supply separate components?

Briany had mentioned that there are places here (IRL?) that will build to spec/budget - anybody any recommends? Or should I be looking to UK or EU?

cheers, scaldoo

A lot of people really like Hardwareversand. They have a lot of stock and are prompt, usually, judging from what people here say, although I haven't used them.

re: Processors, what's the difference between an i5 and an i7? The answer, very little in terms of noticable performance. A lot of marketing spiel goes towards telling people that the newest processor will make your computer run faster because I suppose they have to shift units somehow.

You know how PCs tend to slow down over time? The culprit of this is not so much the CPU, at least nowadays, as it is the hard drive. Traditional mechanical hard drives really seem to have this problem, which is why a lot of people are going for solid state drives, which don't as much. All drives are affected by this phenomenon as they fill with data though, just the SSDs much less so. In short, in CPU terms, an i5 is more than sufficient, unless you and your kids are really into video encoding or running complex simulations.

scaldoo · 12-06-2014 3:01pm

Thanks again uncle_sam_ie & brainy.

I feel more confident now that I can get a grip on the broad detail.

I'll put a spec together via Overclockers and will post back here for your thoughts.

(might be a couple of days)

Thanks again, scald.

SterlingArcher · 12-06-2014 3:29pm

Yeah do up a build on overclockers. Post it here, can go through it with you. And try not bore you with specs. But will do best to get you the best value for money. You will save money in the long run on a pc decent pc.

As mentioned bloodbath builds PCs on adverts. Has a good knowledge on PCs building. maybe get in touch with him. Type in his name in adverts search will lead you there. Again get a spec done up from him.

Post it will have a look see.

SterlingArcher · 12-06-2014 3:48pm

208,69 €
Intel Xeon E3-1230v3 Bx, LGA1150 ready for dispatch

266,40 €
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 Windforce 3X
OC, 2GB DDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort

47,80 €Antec One, ATX,

53,23 €
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 500W -

71,63 €
ASRock H97 Pro4, Sockel 1150, ATX

61,89 €
8GB-Kit Crucial Ballistix Sport Series DDR3-

158,72 €
LG Flatron IPS235P-BN

Crucial M500 120GB SATA 6GB/s 6,4CM
55,70 €

Delivery 11,00 € 11 building.

DVD player 15

950,06 €

SterlingArcher · 12-06-2014 4:02pm

That's a pretty decent build throw windows in that's about 1050. Delivered. All prices sourced hardwareversand.de using Geizhals.de discount.

That pc will run any game at high to ultra settings. Nice IPs monitor can cut 50 off going for a standard 22 inch hd monitor. And maybe squeeze in a better graphics card gtx 780 at 419.

The only draw back is hardwareversand themselves. Customer care is not good.

scaldoo · 18-06-2014 2:10pm

Thanks SterlingArcher - really appreciate you taking time to post that. I'll take your recommends into consideration

spurious · 03-07-2014 2:04pm

Posting for scaldoo who cannot post links

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ii8uhzj5y6jbitg/645_defender_x4.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ye0cqism8txcxi/793_defender_x6.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vc1xttsc6ja4ybg/826_defender_x6.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zeqje376kfmryvi/995_intel_core_i5_4570.jpg

scaldoo · 03-07-2014 2:12pm

Thanks Spurious

These images are 4 x draft specs via OverClockers. I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts re merits (or otherwise) of any of these builds/components. Or any recommended swap-outs or up/downgrades that seem more logical?

cheers, Scaldoo

EoinHef · 03-07-2014 2:49pm

Id be very hard pushed,and id say most here would be the same,to recommend any of them at the prices being displayed in the links man, sorry. Nearly €800 for an AMD quadcore and a 260X gpu,thats quite shocking!!

Is there a reason you decided to get it built rather than building it yourself?

Im sure could find you a better pre built for a more competitive price if you really really want it built for you

Edit: Check out chillblast.co.uk

http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Slipstream-Z97-Haswell-Gaming-PC.html

http://www.chillblast.com/Chillblast-Fusion-Quasar-Haswell-Gaming-PC.html

Theres 2 from a quick look,better value

scaldoo · 03-07-2014 3:25pm

Thanks EoinHef - appreciate that feedback.

You're probably right. The reason I'm looking to have it built is just down to my ignorance in this area. I'm trying to source for my kids and I'm no PC expert.

Thanks for the links - I wasn't even aware of Chillblast - do they have a good reputation? They do seem good value. Then there's this;

"For our neighbours in the Republic of Ireland the price for delivery starts at £45.00, but please note we're unable to offer a full collect and return warranty service outside of the UK."

I'll review those specs in more detail.

Anybody else have any thoughts?

EoinHef · 03-07-2014 3:41pm

Ah,i see. Its just theres so much value to be had from building yourself but each to their own.

Yes chill blast are fairly reputeable

Thats harsh delivery,didnt realise. Last time i inquired it was £20. Still would represent better value with the added £45 though than the ones from Overclockers.

Warranty issue is not ideal though,probably mean you would have to pay for return post if anything went wrong. Im sure the warranty would be honoured,just the collect and return part would be lost.

scaldoo · 03-07-2014 3:49pm

Ta, I might give them a call to see if there's any flexibility.

EoinHef · 03-07-2014 4:37pm

Cool,few others hopefully chime in and give you a few more options

Lu Tze · 03-07-2014 4:44pm

Check out pcspecialist as well

TerrorFirmer · 03-07-2014 6:09pm

Or think about ordering the parts, and getting someone here to assemble it for you, even if you threw them a few quid you'll get so much better value out of your budget.

briany · 03-07-2014 9:06pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Or think about ordering the parts, and getting someone here to assemble it for you, even if you threw them a few quid you'll get so much better value out of your budget.

This would probably save some money, but what does one do if something goes wrong with the computer later on? Often, people who can do this sort of thing as a favor, or even for a couple of quid, are loathe to do it because are they forever tech support on the thing or what? Now if the person doing it has some sort of warranty plan on offer, that's a different story.

If it is indeed a machine for your kids, and they're interested enough to own one, they might be interested enough in helping put it together and learning how it works. Could be a fun familial project. Or make for some fraught hours. It depends on whether you think you and yours would, together, be apt to try. Would be worth thinking about, though.

off-the-shelf PC (PC World ADVENT DT3415) vs. self-build

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