People who use green diesel

Truckermal

I only ever fill with green on paddys day...

YbFocus

pred racer wrote: »

I have been driving daysul cars now for about 15 years, I have yet to be dipped at a checkpoint. I havent even seen one in the last 2 yrs.
But.. My ex wife used to have a commercial discovery and she was stopped and dipped about once a month.

Ah but they saw the Alfa and said "Ah sure even if he is running green, he's probably getting enough hardship as it is the poor lad" :pac:

pa990

harbourmill wrote: »

I am told that the sulpher content is a lot higher in the green stuff . the tolerances of the injection system in the modern diesel engine would not be able to cope with the higher sulpher content , road diesel is refined to meet EU emissions, containing additives, to improve efficiency. I am aware that you can now purchase low sulpher green stuff , but is it low enough not to cause a sulpher build up over a period of time ? If the car is an old diesel there should be no problem as the fuel system tolerances would not be as exact , i would not chance it in a modern diesel system. i have been driving diesel cars for 25 yrs, in the early days if customs suspected you had a second tank , they would take a sample from the fuel filter water drain plug. stopped and dipped twice in 25 yrs.

The sulpher content of green diesel and regular road diesel are now the same.

Its the acids that are used to remove the green dye that cause the problems.

If i drove a diesel, i'd much prefer to pay a premium for diesel to ensure quality fuel.

Bandara

HQ wrote: »

Is it not a case of once you use dyed diesel the dye can remain and taint the diesel for months after?

Yes on average for up to 9 months it will show up on a test

Bit like a sprog I suppose

corkgsxr

harbourmill wrote: »

I am told that the sulpher content is a lot higher in the green stuff . the tolerances of the injection system in the modern diesel engine would not be able to cope with the higher sulpher content , road diesel is refined to meet EU emissions, containing additives, to improve efficiency. I am aware that you can now purchase low sulpher green stuff , but is it low enough not to cause a sulpher build up over a period of time ? If the car is an old diesel there should be no problem as the fuel system tolerances would not be as exact , i would not chance it in a modern diesel system. i have been driving diesel cars for 25 yrs, in the early days if customs suspected you had a second tank , they would take a sample from the fuel filter water drain plug. stopped and dipped twice in 25 yrs.

Isnt it the low sulphur in modern diesel that causes problems as sulpher was a form of lubricant

slimjimmc

harbourmill wrote: »

I am told that the sulpher content is a lot higher in the green stuff . the tolerances of the injection system in the modern diesel engine would not be able to cope with the higher sulpher content , road diesel is refined to meet EU emissions, containing additives, to improve efficiency. I am aware that you can now purchase low sulpher green stuff , but is it low enough not to cause a sulpher build up over a period of time ? If the car is an old diesel there should be no problem as the fuel system tolerances would not be as exact , i would not chance it in a modern diesel system. i have been driving diesel cars for 25 yrs, in the early days if customs suspected you had a second tank , they would take a sample from the fuel filter water drain plug. stopped and dipped twice in 25 yrs.

Afaik, max sulphur levels for road diesel and agri diesel are the same at 10ppm and have been for a few years. Agri was indeed much higher back in the day.

Bandara

There is absolutely no difference in Green or White Derv, except for the colour marking, which has no effect on the fuels properties whatsoever

Sam Kade

djimi wrote: »

Maybe I have seen them so and just didnt pay any attention as they werent intersted in my petrol car

I was taking an animal to the factory a few years ago with a rough nissan primera petrol car and trailer. As I was driving up the road This navy blue vectra stopped up the road from me and your man in the passenger seat jumped out putting on his customs cap. He was beaming certain sure he had me caught as I drove nearer and he heard the petrol engine he waved me on

sunnysoutheast

djimi wrote: »

Out of interest, what are the chances of actually ever getting dipped? Do they target people that they know own a green diesel tank, or is it literally just pull over a random diesel car and test it? Because I know of plenty of people who drive diesels and have never heard of anyone being stopped and tested.

I've seen them dipping after the ferry checkin at Rosslare a few times. Seem to focus on vans rather than cars, I have a UK plate 318d and was waved through.

leeroybrown

vibe666 wrote: »

possibly a silly question, but do they literally just dip a yoke into your filler cap/hole yoke?

if that IS the case, then surely if you were making a habit of it, you could just have a pipe into a closed bottle at the bottom of the filler hole with regular diesel in it and have a 2nd filler hole into the tank in the boot to fill secretly?

They'll take the sample wherever they think they'll catch you. It's not unheard of for large milage commercial vans to have a dual tank system including a heater for the "clean" tank so that the fuel isn't cold at dip time. Customs have to be wise to the tricks people pull.

mfceiling

The south armagh electricians i worked with years ago were stopped on the N2 a good few years back. Yer man knocks the bluebird out of gear, turns off the ignition and freewheels up. Customs and excise - we're checking for marked diesel, can you open your fuel cap?

No.

Sorry what?

No.

I'll get the super over.....

Sir open the fuel cap.

No.

Sir open the cap now or i'll arrest you and the lads for wasting time and obstructing our work practice.

Aye alright then.

*Dips tank*...sir this is petrol.

I know - she's a 1.6L...you should have asked me and i'd have told you...good luck!!

Pure head the balls these lads were - one of them has a famous father who's involved in "legal" fuel transporting!!

jca

mfceiling wrote: »

The south armagh electricians i worked with years ago were stopped on the N2 a good few years back. Yer man knocks the bluebird out of gear, turns off the ignition and freewheels up. Customs and excise - we're checking for marked diesel, can you open your fuel cap?

No.

Sorry what?

No.

I'll get the super over.....

Sir open the fuel cap.

No.

Sir open the cap now or i'll arrest you and the lads for wasting time and obstructing our work practice.

Aye alright then.

*Dips tank*...sir this is petrol.

I know - she's a 1.6L...you should have asked me and i'd have told you...good luck!!

Pure head the balls these lads were - one of them has a famous father who's involved in "legal" fuel transporting!!

I like it.

mfceiling

Sitec wrote: »

I would imagine a diesel like this would never be dipped? Maybe that's how folk afford them!

My uncle owned a petrol station in tyrone years ago, and i worked in it from a young age. The amount of lads back then running on "ribena" as it was known was unreal. Eventually he moved the pump around the back - out of sight and all that. The biscuit for me one day was the oul fellow in a brand new 530d who filled it to the brim with red. Told me that it was "her second fill, the garage gave me the first for luck"...that car never saw clear diesel for as long as he owned it!!

dgt

Sitec wrote: »

I would imagine a diesel like this would never be dipped? Maybe that's how folk afford them!

I remember on St Patricks day last year a chap in a 730d filling up with green.... Being all patriotic for the day that was in it? :pac:

Tail Docker

I remember rolling up to a Garda/Customs checkpoint with a mate in an old battered lite-ace van - he was driving. The customs man goes -"open up sir, we want to dip you" - Steve sticks his head out the window, tilts back his head, mouth wide open and goes "Aaaaahhh" like for the dentist. The customs lad goes"I meant your diesel tank sir". "What diesel tank?" goes steve - "this yokes petrol ya clown". We still got done for no tax though, I still laugh thinking about it.

In the rough and ready early days, I was sat in the office of our yard, a heap of builders vans outside - some possibly, cough, on green - in roars one of the lads going "Run Tail! Customs are here!" - with four customs lads right outside the door behind him, the one and only door in and out of the place, with my name and phone number scrawbed over ever surface available.."Where do you suggest I run to Mick?", I asked. Even the customs men laughed, in fairness. Still got done though. I decided green was more hassle than it was worth after that. In my defence, it was a weekly miracle that I had the money to put any colour of diesel in the tanks at that stage.

ustari

Been driving almost seven years and have never had tank dipped. Granted none of these were commercials or the like. It seems to me like the ones to do it with are the common repmobiles etc.

Surely you wouldn't be long "saving" the cost of the fine anyway if you did decent mileage.

John from ennis

what is the legal side of telling customs get off your land etc if an when they arrive to dip vehicle's?

I had a 98 mondeo TD. hardly ever saw legit stuff. I usta drive a digger an used "spare diesel" from it.

but I did see customs come onto the ennis bypass when it was under construction and they checked vans regularly. I was told they useta visit but didnt believe it until I saw it myself.

when I was in London I had a 2l TD elantra. ran on red diesel all the time. drove from london to ennis via hollyhead. I even topped up my tank with 18litres of red in a supermarket car park before boarding. ..

never an issue with the engine or turbo.i changed the filters an oil v regularly though.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

John from ennis

Fred Swanson wrote: »

They have the right to enter any land at any time to detect offences. If you obstruct them they will call the Gardaí who will arrest you.

ah yeah I heard all that before.... is it true though?
unconstitutional an all....grand saying they have this power an all.even heard one lad say to me as I was pouring a 5 gallon drum into the mondeo they have more power than the gardai.
well, the irish constitution trumps all laws.

not trying to be a dick here.just find the thread interesting and just mabe someone can clarify.

but I have to admit....when lads told me customs were about, it did restrict my driving routes. ..

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

K.Flyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

I have heard of them simply pulling off a hose and taking a sample. Then they walk away and leave you to deal with the aftermath. Customs are a law onto themselves.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

...
I have heard of them using some sort of emissions tester as a preliminary test before dipping.

Don't believe everything you hear
I have been dipped plenty of times over the years and have never witnessed either of those happening, I have never even seen the bonnet of a car or commercial being lifted during a test.
They use the most basic piece of equipment.
Its a squeezy plastic bottle with a long clear tube attached to it.
They shove the tube down the filler, squeeze the bottle, draw up some fuel, check its colour, put the drop fuel back in your tank and your on your way.

nice_guy80

In 9 years of driving on main roads in rural Roscommon, Westmeath, Longford I have yet to be dipped

Only once have I seen a customs checkpoint

nice_guy80

Sam Kade wrote: »

I was taking an animal to the factory a few years ago with a rough nissan primera petrol car and trailer. As I was driving up the road This navy blue vectra stopped up the road from me and your man in the passenger seat jumped out putting on his customs cap. He was beaming certain sure he had me caught as I drove nearer and he heard the petrol engine he waved me on

They are not allowed to stop you without a Garda present

slimjimmc

John from ennis wrote: »

ah yeah I heard all that before.... is it true though?
unconstitutional an all....grand saying they have this power an all.even heard one lad say to me as I was pouring a 5 gallon drum into the mondeo they have more power than the gardai.

Unconstitutional? Please, tell us precisely what articles of the Constitution (linked below) are being breached.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/en/constitution/index.html
There is nothing in the constitution which prevents them coming onto your land, even your dwelling can be forcibly entered in accordance with the law.

John from ennis wrote: »

well, the irish constitution trumps all laws.

not trying to be a dick here.just find the thread interesting and just mabe someone can clarify.

but I have to admit....when lads told me customs were about, it did restrict my driving routes. ..

I guess many people do not realise that many articles in the Constitution are qualified by the phrase "in accordance with law".

BnB

nice_guy80 wrote: »

They are not allowed to stop you without a Garda present

Are you sure about that. I am pretty sure that they don't.

From the rules of the road....

"Officials from the Revenue Commissioners including Customs may also stop and examine vehicles."

I was on the Tipp road coming into Limerick about 12 months ago (driving a UK reg) when a car came up behind me and started flashing his lights furiously. I ignored him thinking he was just some gombeen with Road Rage for some unknown reason. But he pulled up beside me at a roundabout and let me know that he was from customs and he wanted me to pull in. Lucky enough, I actually had it booked in the following day at the NCT Centre in Limerick to pay the VRT and I was able to show him the appointment. Otherwise, I have no doubt he would have taken it off me because he didn't strike me as the nicest chap ever. I got the impression he was quite disappointed that he wasn't taking it.

As it happened, I had been driving it for nearly 12 months at that stage. And about 4 weeks prior to this, I had been stopped by a customs checkpoint on the way to work (Again no guard there). The fella that day to be fair to him gave me a warning and told me he'd let me off but to get it done because the next customs official I meet mightn't be as lenient as him. Luckily enough, for once in my life, I took some good advice.

leeroybrown

nice_guy80 wrote: »

They are not allowed to stop you without a Garda present

That's not the case. You could say that Customs stop/search powers exceed those of the Gardaí as they don't even need to have reason to believe a crime is being committed. Every other kind of checkpoint requires a Garda presence but not Customs.

John from ennis

slimjimmc wrote: »

Unconstitutional? Please, tell us precisely what articles of the Constitution
There is nothing in the constitution which prevents them coming onto your land, even your dwelling can be forcibly entered in accordance with the law.


I guess many people do not realise that many articles in the Constitution are qualified by the phrase "in accordance with law".

read article 40. personal rights.its all there.

in accordance with the law they have no right to enter ones private property at will.
that would be unlawful.

hoodie6029

John from ennis wrote: »

read article 40. personal rights.its all there.

in accordance with the law they have no right to enter ones private property at will.
that would be unlawful.

any chance you'll quote that article for everyone and back up your point with some caselaw?

Satanta

hoodie6029 wrote: »

any chance you'll quote that article for everyone and back up your point with some caselaw?

Sounds like some of that freeman of the earth stuff to me.

slimjimmc

John from ennis wrote: »

read article 40. personal rights.its all there.

in accordance with the law they have no right to enter ones private property at will.
that would be unlawful.

Nope, not seeing it. The only reference is to dwellings, but we're talking about land. Sect 136.2.a Finance Act 2001 gives officers of the Revenue Commissioners the legal right to enter any place other than a dwelling at any reasonable time without warrant to check and dip vehicles. There is no requirement to have particular suspiscion or evidence beforehand. All they have to do is show you their "authorisation of such officer" (badge) if requested.
Even if they do it wrong it's only unlawful, but not unconstitutional.

However if they forcibly entered your dwelling without lawful authority then that would be unconstitutional.