Throwing down the gauntlet to beef farming

Corsair2

I'll get straight to the point.

There is a fundamental problem with beef farming here in this country; we've got far too much of it. The only reason we aren't breaking €4 a kilo is down to simple oversupply (in the form of dairy calves retained and imported 2 years ago) which is allowing processors and retailers to manipulate beef markets across the UK and Ireland. Remember those heady days of €4.50/kg base? It was down to nothing other than a shortage of beef cattle. Beef was retailing more expensive then than it is now and there was no major shift in consumer purchasing preferences. Now that retail prices have fallen the processors claim consumers aren't buying as much beef anymore, what a paradox.

Teagasc and the IFJ are still churning out the same old bullsh!t; claiming that by increasing our output we will improve our margins. Firstly if everyone increased output by a mere 10% the beef price would plummet. Anyone who can't see that is a fool. The processors would make more money, the merchant would make more money, the banks always win, but the farmer would be worse off. That is a certainty.

That brings me to the unthinkable. What if we cut our production by a mere 10%? Take a suckler farmer with 50 cows who breaks even. Firstly, if he only breaks even he'd be better off without them! but if he keeps on going and cuts 5 cows, reduced his inputs somewhat, had more time to look after he 45 cows he's got, he is not going to be any worse off. One thing is for sure; if he increased to 60 cows, like some people want him to, then he'd be a fool. The same can be said for a beef finisher, winter or summer it's usually break even, sometimes a loss, the odd profits are small.

Less cattle and a beef prices at €4.50 is way more appealing to me than putting on a show with more cattle, thinking I'm a big fellow and haemorrhaging money at €3.50 which is what would happen if the "industry experts" had their way.

The bottom line is LESS IS MORE!

What we need is FoodFamine 2020.

willfarmerman

Corsair2 wrote: »

I'll get straight to the point.

There is a fundamental problem with beef farming here in this country; we've got far too much of it. The only reason we aren't breaking €4 a kilo is down to simple oversupply (in the form of dairy calves retained and imported 2 years ago) which is allowing processors and retailers to manipulate beef markets across the UK and Ireland. Remember those heady days of €4.50/kg base? It was down to nothing other than a shortage of beef cattle. Beef was retailing more expensive then than it is now and there was no major shift in consumer purchasing preferences. Now that retail prices have fallen the processors claim consumers aren't buying as much beef anymore, what a paradox.

Teagasc and the IFJ are still churning out the same old bullsh!t; claiming that by increasing our output we will improve our margins. Firstly if everyone increased output by a mere 10% the beef price would plummet. Anyone who can't see that is a fool. The processors would make more money, the merchant would make more money, the banks always win, but the farmer would be worse off. That is a certainty.

That brings me to the unthinkable. What if we cut our production by a mere 10%? Take a suckler farmer with 50 cows who breaks even. Firstly, if he only breaks even he'd be better off without them! but if he keeps on going and cuts 5 cows, reduced his inputs somewhat, had more time to look after he 45 cows he's got, he is not going to be any worse off. One thing is for sure; if he increased to 60 cows, like some people want him to, then he'd be a fool. The same can be said for a beef finisher, winter or summer it's usually break even, sometimes a loss, the odd profits are small.

Less cattle and a beef prices at €4.50 is way more appealing to me than putting on a show with more cattle, thinking I'm a big fellow and haemorrhaging money at €3.50 which is what would happen if the "industry experts" had their way.

The bottom line is LESS IS MORE!

What we need is FoodFamine 2020.

I would love to disagree for the sake of it. Bit I can't!

_Brian

Corsair2 wrote: »

I'll get straight to the point.

There is a fundamental problem with beef farming here in this country; we've got far too much of it. The only reason we aren't breaking €4 a kilo is down to simple oversupply (in the form of dairy calves retained and imported 2 years ago) which is allowing processors and retailers to manipulate beef markets across the UK and Ireland. Remember those heady days of €4.50/kg base? It was down to nothing other than a shortage of beef cattle. Beef was retailing more expensive then than it is now and there was no major shift in consumer purchasing preferences. Now that retail prices have fallen the processors claim consumers aren't buying as much beef anymore, what a paradox.

Teagasc and the IFJ are still churning out the same old bullsh!t; claiming that by increasing our output we will improve our margins. Firstly if everyone increased output by a mere 10% the beef price would plummet. Anyone who can't see that is a fool. The processors would make more money, the merchant would make more money, the banks always win, but the farmer would be worse off. That is a certainty.

That brings me to the unthinkable. What if we cut our production by a mere 10%? Take a suckler farmer with 50 cows who breaks even. Firstly, if he only breaks even he'd be better off without them! but if he keeps on going and cuts 5 cows, reduced his inputs somewhat, had more time to look after he 45 cows he's got, he is not going to be any worse off. One thing is for sure; if he increased to 60 cows, like some people want him to, then he'd be a fool. The same can be said for a beef finisher, winter or summer it's usually break even, sometimes a loss, the odd profits are small.

Less cattle and a beef prices at €4.50 is way more appealing to me than putting on a show with more cattle, thinking I'm a big fellow and haemorrhaging money at €3.50 which is what would happen if the "industry experts" had their way.

The bottom line is LESS IS MORE!

What we need is FoodFamine 2020.

I think what your missing is the "resourcefulness" of Larry and co.. Are we to believe that if we drop production by 10% that he'll be forced to pay more ?? Will he hell !! He'll quickly source stock elsewhere just to stick it to the farmers..

larrymiller

_Brian wrote: »

I think what your missing is the "resourcefulness" of Larry and co.. Are we to believe that if we drop production by 10% that he'll be forced to pay more ?? Will he hell !! He'll quickly source stock elsewhere just to stick it to the farmers..

Exactly we have to stop the factory building up numbers first in the feedlots

onyerbikepat

Firstly, there's no way you could get every Beef Farmer to reduce number by 10%. Not a hope in hell.

Have a look at the attached. From Bord Bia, it tells it's own story. Irish prices were actually higher than the EU norm before the over supply came, and they are back up again now. The glut was caused by all those extra dairy calves kept 2 years ago, like you said.

From;
http://www.bordbia.ie/industry/farmers/pricetracking/cattle/pages/prices.aspx

Corsair2

Good point on larry. I was talking to a finisher who pointed to a cold store in the greater Dublin area full of prime Polish beef carcasses. Something tells me that it won't be marketed as polish beef. His ability to import foreign carcasses is limited though. The real problem was the diary calves retained and imported 2 years ago.

Brian and Onyourbikepat: if we increase we're only playing into his hands, if you're not making any money with current stocking levels then why not try less, if you're losing money you should definitely cut production. From what I read most farmers break even, many make a loss, I'm not naive enough to expect every farmer to cut, if you're profitable then keep on keepin on! Fair play.

I would suggest that people grow their own cereals instead of buying them from a merchant but since cereal farmers are selling at cost anyway it's not an ideal solution. But again if you're making a loss or breaking even then it's a possibility. It's not hard to grow cereals, oats and wheat grow anywhere, spray programmes are standard, contractors are plentiful. The hilarious thing is that many cereal farmers are only in it because they like machinery, don't care about their crops, don't really know what their at because their agronomists just tell them what to do, and they don't like livestock.

Unfortunately we have all heard about farmers contract rearing calves for the processors. This kind of thing is truly disgusting, talk about turncoats, selling out for a pittance. Abhorrent. Where is the unity among farmers against a common adversary?

The problem with this country is our complete inability to stick together. This goes right throughout our colonial past. If we have the resolve to stand together we would have real power.

On the markets, I think the irish beef supply situation will resolve itself by this time next year at the latest. WHEN IT HAPPENS WE NEED TO TURN THE SCREW!

Looking at other proteins, the supply of pork is massively reduced in the US thanks to PEDv. And guess what has happened to the price? Supply and demand yo. This is good for beef, the USDA predict increases across the board. It's a welcome relief to irish pig producers who have been struggling for far too long, largely due to the fact that Danish cereal farmers got into pigs to add value to their grain, got really good at it and flooded them market.

Is there a pattern here?

_Brian

While well intentioned I'll be polite and say that at best your post is naive...

You suggest that we all start growing cereals because they "grow anywhere" which shows a lack of understanding of the business and the geography of the country, and essentially refer to cereal growers as lazy village idiots only capable of doing what they are told and in it for the love of flashing beacons. I'm guessing for me to grow 10tons of barley and have it rolled here in Cavan may indeed work out more expensive than purchasing it. Again places like Leitrim wouldn't be recognised strongholds of cereal production either so they may struggle.

While I don't agree with working for Larry these "turncoats" as you've labelled them have their own farms to run and make their own decisions. If I needed to side with someone to ensure the survival of the farm I probably would and anyone paying good money would be considered, many would think the same, not much room for sentimentality in business.

I think maybe it would be good to hold back your labeling of people, if you want to be considered worth listening to you need to make an argument without putting everyone down.

Mad4simmental

The hilarious thing is that many cereal farmers are only in it because they like machinery, don't care about their crops, don't really know what their at because their agronomists just tell them what to do, and they don't like livestock.


Sorry but that part is complete BS,
They need good mechinary to do their job the same as a lad that hase allot of cows may need to upgrade the parlor. Their is the %1 the same as everything else.

Muckit

Definitely there are merits to extensive as opposed to intensive when it comes to beef. It doesn't make you any worse of a farmer. The returns just aren't in beef to be lashing out fertiliser and stocking to the hilt. It's foolish IMO to be investing heavily financially for little or no return.

Your man Damien O'Reilly on back of country living says it right. We're exploited on a number of levels by the retailers. Firstly by receiving the smaller fraction money wise and then by using our hard working and green image to sell product at a premium to benefit them!

It's just not going to continue. It can't. It may take 20 years but the beef sector in lreland will look a whole lot different then, if we even have one.

Base price

Corsair2 wrote: »

I would suggest that people grow their own cereals instead of buying them from a merchant but since cereal farmers are selling at cost anyway it's not an ideal solution. But again if you're making a loss or breaking even then it's a possibility. It's not hard to grow cereals, oats and wheat grow anywhere, spray programmes are standard, contractors are plentiful. The hilarious thing is that many cereal farmers are only in it because they like machinery, don't care about their crops, don't really know what their at because their agronomists just tell them what to do, and they don't like livestock.

Unfortunately we have all heard about farmers contract rearing calves for the processors. This kind of thing is truly disgusting, talk about turncoats, selling out for a pittance. Abhorrent. Where is the unity among farmers against a common adversary?

I must be funny Friday again. Person posting last week about "hobby" suckler farmers.
There is little or no chance of a combine arriving to our part of Longford. The costs of transporting one would be prohibitive. Maybe OP would prefer if we turned back the clock and got a binder and reaper to harvest wheat/oats :rolleyes:
With regards to the farmers who are contract rearing calves for the factories- I know of two who have contract reared for other entities for several years. It was publicised in the journal a few weeks ago. As far as I am aware those same entities have either reduced their numbers or are no longer pursuing that type of production.
To label these contract rearers as "turncoats" because they are now rearing for a well know factory, is a disgrace. They are trying to earn a living just like the rest of us.
To be honest if we had a slightly better set up I would do it and would not consider myself a turncoat by doing so.

Corsair2

Brian, explain the nativity of my post. I stated that most farmers break even and many lose money on their farm business. If they did nothing they would be better off. How could the suggestion that they cut their production be naive? Surely it would be naive for them to believe that increasing production will make them better off.

On the suggestion that people grow cereals. Oats will grow on a peaty podzol, a gley, most mineral soils with adverse structural qualities. Your grandfather probably grew it, why can't you do it in the 21st century? Yes you won't get 10 tonnes of barley per acre, you won't even get 8 tonnes of oats, you don't have to, if your inputs are lower. In any case most specialist cereal growers with excellent deep sandy loams which are ideally suited to winter barley don't get 10t barley on average. I accept that not every inch of Leitrim and Cavan are capable of producing crops but not all of it isn't either. Most farmers, not all, have some land which could muster a crop of oats in a long term grass rotation.

On the turn coats we will have to agree to disagree :-)

As for the remark on cereal farmers not being interested in their crops, it was a bit of a generalisation I will accept that, but I spoke to a cereal grower recently who grows in excess of 1000 acres of combinable crops and he categorically stated that he doesn't really have any interest in the crops, they are just a means to have lots of tractors. I know many cereal farmers who if they were more attentive with their crop protection than their machinery maintenance, would be much better off. It's the machinery disease! Having said that there are clearly some really great growers out there too.

The bottom line of my post was as some acknowledged that increasing national beef productivity would not be in the interests of farmers but the interests of processors, retailers, banks and whatever colour tractor you have. The only thing that has ever put money in farmers pockets, whatever farming type, soil, scale, country, has been SCARCITY!

Maybe the only way forward for beef is either in producing less, lighter but much higher grade carcasses and that's not easy, or more extensive, lower input but price premium beef like Hereford or Angus. A couple of things are for sure, the writing is on the wall for almost all bulls and anything older than a 24 month continental steer. In my humble opinion :-)

GRASSorMUCK

I find your comments about cereals being abit simplistic, sher ya just plant it with lots of horse power, chuck random cans in a sprayer a few times of year and then go in with your big shiny lexion....
If only.

I find some comments about agronomo's abit... insulting. I know our guy gives us the attention to detail to get that extra .2,.3,.4 even .5 t/ha difference in the crops that makes okay-good, guys need to ask if their suppliers are there to sell or there to advise..?

freedominacup

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

I find your comments about cereals being abit simplistic, sher ya just plant it with lots of horse power, chuck random cans in a sprayer a few times of year and then go in with your big shiny lexion....
If only.

I knew we were doing something wrong.

Corsair2

Good god.

I am a simple person so let me keep it simple.

Let me state categorically that there are many good cereal growers out there doing things well. To them I say well done. (I certainly don't get everything right) I am very sorry if I have hurt any feelings. I should have exercised more tact.

The basic premise of my posts was that an over supply of cattle has allowed processors to drive down the price of beef and that if we simply had less beef in the country our plight might be improved.

Let me also state that cereals can be grown by drystock farmers who have land suitable to grow them, with advice from an agronomist. This may allow some farmers to reduce their beef output without impacting on their profitability. If many farmers chose to do this it might create more favourable market conditions for farmers.

Finally I suggested that if there was unity among farmers, from the weanling producers, the weanling to store, the store to beef, the suckler to beef farmers, if they worked together against a common adversary, then maybe, just maybe there there might be a future in beef farming.

The fact is all this pessimism surrounding beef is like a cancer for the industry.

It has been pointed out by other people on other threads that the change in the market spec may be a tactic by the processors to reduce confidence among farmers. Well if that is the case then they have well and truly succeeded. Pessimism is rife.

From what I have seen on this thread, those who work with the processors to undermine all beef farmers are lauded, commended and others would sooner take their place than stand with their fellow farmers for a better future for all of us.

Corsair2

GRASSorMUCK wrote: »

I find some comments about agronomo's abit... insulting. I know our guy gives us the attention to detail to get that extra .2,.3,.4 even .5 t/ha difference in the crops that makes okay-good, guys need to ask if their suppliers are there to sell or there to advise..?

How could you be insulted? Seriously.

I have nothing against agronomists, I said nothing against them, I think that their services should be availed of more.

I simply stated that you don't have to be an agronomist yourself in order to grow cereals when you have an agronomist that can advise you. Many people who don't grow cereals think that growing cereals is an impossibility and I was simply trying to allay those thoughts.

You have been insulted and I would like to apologise. I am sorry.

Base price

Nice to see a different perspective from new blood on F&F. Wouldn't be my perspective but then I would be considered an auld one.

Conmaicne Mara

Base price wrote: »

Nice to see new blood of F&F

Think of it as a form of recycling.

larrymiller

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Think of it as a form of recycling.

So con are you going to sow the oats?

allbuiz

Lads, I think we should stick to the main topic!!!!!!! How are we going to deal with over supply and control the market? I don't want to hear Larry owns it because if u look at it logically he doesn't.

farm14

Irish beef farmers could control the supply of beef if they wanted too. But don't think it practical to do that. Certainly when 30,000 cattle are killed weekly the price is never great. Beef farming is having a tough time of it at the moment & even though it can be accepted price is based on supply & demand the factories are moving the goal posts all over the place as regards to what type of carcass they require. Certainly the suckled beef is very under pressure with the teagasc results recently showing that the average suckler income is €9,594 including sfp & which is less than that of someone on the dole. with a carcass weight of 380kg being talked about as the limit it is going to have big effect on beef finishers & suckler farmers trying to make both profitable. What is definitely needed in this country is more live exports to improve price competition. If things don't change in this sector sooner rather than later full time farmers in beef will have no choice to get into dairying as it just is simply not possible to make average industrial wage out of beef at this time.

larrymiller

allbuiz wrote: »

Lads, I think we should stick to the main topic!!!!!!! How are we going to deal with over supply and control the market? I don't want to hear Larry owns it because if u look at it logically he doesn't.

Realistically is the "oversupply" going to die off by the end of this year? That's the main obstacle in our way. There is not much that can be done until it's near gone IMO

larrymiller

farm14 wrote: »

Irish beef farmers could control the supply of beef if they wanted too. But don't think it practical to do that. Certainly when 30,000 cattle are killed weekly the price is never great. Beef farming is having a tough time of it at the moment & even though it can be accepted price is based on supply & demand the factories are moving the goal posts all over the place as regards to what type of carcass they require. Certainly the suckled beef is very under pressure with the teagasc results recently showing that the average suckler income is €9,594 including sfp & which is less than that of someone on the dole. with a carcass weight of 380kg being talked about as the limit it is going to have big effect on beef finishers & suckler farmers trying to make both profitable. What is definitely needed in this country is more live exports to improve price competition. If things don't change in this sector sooner rather than later full time farmers in beef will have no choice to get into dairying as it just is simply not possible to make average industrial wage out of beef at this time.

The 380 kg is starting from next month in slaney meats.
I would like to get into dairying but I've no infrastructure or capital to do it.
But I do have all my land in one nice block

farm14

Corsair as regards growing your own cereal to feed to cattle it isn't profitable for cereal growers. It just wouldn't pay for someone who wouldn't have alot of land to tie up land & feed it to cattle which is a marginal enough return.

allbuiz

larrymiller wrote: »

The 380 kg is starting from next month in slaney meats.
I would like to get into dairying but I've no infrastructure or capital to do it.
But I do have all my land in one nice block

Did this attitude not leave the the beef farmer in the state he's in??? Far away hills are greener

allbuiz

larrymiller wrote: »

Realistically is the "oversupply" going to die off by the end of this year? That's the main obstacle in our way. There is not much that can be done until it's near gone IMO

Well if the live exports to UK were opened up, it would. Seriously we need a STRIKE until they let us ship live cattle into England.

larrymiller

allbuiz wrote: »

Did this attitude not leave the the beef farmer in the state he's in??? Far away hills are greener

What attitude? True that, it's just hard to work so hard for fcuk all

allbuiz

larrymiller wrote: »

What attitude? True that, it's just hard to work so hard for fcuk all

I couldn't agree more. I was at a meeting where they were on about the price of beef in 2016 being good. So what do we do until then? Like I say, it's time for a good old fashioned STRIKE. it works for the unions.

farm14

larrymiller wrote: »

The 380 kg is starting from next month in slaney meats.
I would like to get into dairying but I've no infrastructure or capital to do it.
But I do have all my land in one nice block

That small for a continental. I think their will be alot more finishing aberdeen angus & hereford in years to come. That's the problem with beef atm. Very hard to generate capital. It would be worth doing a business plan on though. Dairying done well is very profitable & even at low milk prices it still is very favorable compared to other enterprises. Beef at present is just not profitable.

allbuiz

farm14 wrote: »

That small for a continental. I think their will be alot more finishing aberdeen angus & hereford in years to come. That's the problem with beef atm. Very hard to generate capital. It would be worth doing a business plan on though. Dairying done well is very profitable & even at low milk prices it still is very favorable compared to other enterprises. Beef at present is just not profitable.

Do u not remember the old way of farming? They would have an interest in each enterprise to protect against price volatility. What happened milk in 2009 and 2012?

Corsair2

farm14 wrote: »

Corsair as regards growing your own cereal to feed to cattle it isn't profitable for cereal growers. It just wouldn't pay for someone who wouldn't have alot of land to tie up land & feed it to cattle which is a marginal enough return.

Thanks farm14. earlier I stated that cereal farmers are basically selling at cost anyway so growing your own isn't a great option! Having said that if you're selling something at what it costs you to grow it whether it's beef or oats, then what's the difference. Secondly it may be advantageous to have a cereal in there once in a while for rotation reasons.

farm14

Talking to a few beef farmers said the same. Alot of work for very little reward.

allbuiz

What are they planning on doing about it? Talk is cheap

Corsair2

allbuiz wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. I was at a meeting where they were on about the price of beef in 2016 being good. So what do we do until then? Like I say, it's time for a good old fashioned STRIKE. it works for the unions.

Lol. Hopefully it will be 2015 not 2016 before we have better market prices.

As for the strike, that requires a unified front. It seems there are many all to eager to cross the picket.

allbuiz

Corsair2 wrote: »

Lol. Hopefully it will be 2015 not 2016 before we have better market prices.

As for the strike, that requires a unified front. It seems there are many all to eager to cross the picket.

Well I propose an greeting of minds to devise a plan to put real pressure on the boys. I'm back after two weeks in the hole.

Corsair2

farm14 wrote: »

That small for a continental. I think their will be alot more finishing aberdeen angus & hereford in years to come. That's the problem with beef atm. Very hard to generate capital. It would be worth doing a business plan on though. Dairying done well is very profitable & even at low milk prices it still is very favorable compared to other enterprises. Beef at present is just not profitable.

On the dairying, from what I've heard lately a milk price of 28 c/l may be optimistic in three years.

farm14

allbuiz wrote: »

What are they planning on doing about it? Talk is cheap

Alot of them are considering their future at beef.

allbuiz

farm14 wrote: »

Alot of them are considering their future at beef.

To do what instead?

allbuiz

Corsair2 wrote: »

On the dairying, from what I've heard lately a milk price of 28 c/l may be optimistic in three years.

Try 20 c/l. Sure look at what happened NZ

tomnicebutdim

farmers are busy fools.i know, im one.
see last weeks journal on farm incomes. if i sat on my fists i would probably do better.
are there any farmers making money out of beef/sucklers?Take your sfp out of this.
was at a farm open day two years ago and one fella piped up "well done lads yer doing a great job, yer making flip all yerselves but yer keeping the country going"
with this dairy expansion whats going to happen next-
Dairy farmers to use sexed semen and will build up to stock where they will have enough dairy replacements and then use sexed semen for bulls for beef and this floods the market.
no use for suckler cow
Government and industry are going to push everything towards dairy and leaves beef/suckler farmers with a few options
-milk cows
-contract rear heifers
-lease ground or sell silage to dairy man
-buy bull calves from dairyman for beef.
Don't like being so negative but dairy is the only way to go once you don't invest heavy on it.

20silkcut

There was an agricultural strike in the 1960's over the payment of rates.
The government targeted certain farms at random and punished them.

Obviously a produce strike is different.

Could many beef farmers produce little or nothing for 12 months and survive on the SFP?
Would they be any worse off??
When you think of it most beef farmers produced silage pits and bales for absolutely nothing in 2013.

allbuiz

20silkcut wrote: »

There was an agricultural strike in the 1960's over the payment of rates.
The government targeted certain farms at random and punished them.

Obviously a produce strike is different.

Could many beef farmers produce little or nothing for 12 months and survive on the SFP?
Would they be any worse off??
When you think of it most beef farmers produced silage pits and bales for absolutely nothing in 2013.

Sure we'd b better letting off grass to dairy farmer at €150 without maps and collect SFP.

Kevin the sheep

allbuiz wrote: »

Sure we'd b better letting off grass to dairy farmer at €150 without maps and collect SFP.

Is SFP not more less gone in 2019 when I say gone I mean ours will be about €3000

allbuiz

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Is SFP not more less gone in 2019 when I say gone I mean ours will be about €3000

Yes ur right but we're the fools feeding the world for less than dole money. A bit of self worth is needed.

Kevin the sheep

allbuiz wrote: »

Yes ur right but we're the fools feeding the world for less than dole money. A bit of self worth is needed.

Yes def well what will that do to the figures that were in the journal last week sure you would be a fool to be at it my uncle can't understand why I say there is noting out of it I live with him and my wife and baby he gets a good farm payment has a pension farm is only a hobby with him but he still has little or no money come end of year SFP pension and all and he wants me to stay In sucklers so il have no pension SFP will be 1/4 and I sappose il have to keep working to sapport the farm the way it's looking, don't know if I can get the finance to go milking tryin hard but the bottom line is I like having sucklers and like that lifestyle but that won't put food on the table for my family

allbuiz

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Yes def well what will that do to the figures that were in the journal last week sure you would be a fool to be at it my uncle can't understand why I say there is noting out of it I live with him and my wife and baby he gets a good farm payment has a pension farm is only a hobby with him but he still has little or no money come end of year SFP pension and all and he wants me to stay In sucklers so il have no pension SFP will be 1/4 and I sappose il have to keep working to sapport the farm the way it's looking, don't know if I can get the finance to go milking tryin hard but the bottom line is I like having sucklers and like that lifestyle but that won't put food on the table for my family

We think we're a nation of rebels but the sad fact is we take this treatment lying down. We need to take control because we can't all go dairying.

moy83

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Yes def well what will that do to the figures that were in the journal last week sure you would be a fool to be at it my uncle can't understand why I say there is noting out of it I live with him and my wife and baby he gets a good farm payment has a pension farm is only a hobby with him but he still has little or no money come end of year SFP pension and all and he wants me to stay In sucklers so il have no pension SFP will be 1/4 and I sappose il have to keep working to sapport the farm the way it's looking, don't know if I can get the finance to go milking tryin hard but the bottom line is I like having sucklers and like that lifestyle but that won't put food on the table for my family

I dont think your wife will appreciate using your money to prop up a herd of sucklers when there is a young child in the house . We wouldnt run a tight ship with the sucklers but they do cover their expenses every year and the father lives off his SFP (or buys machinery :rolleyes: )

Kevin the sheep

moy83 wrote: »

I dont think your wife will appreciate using your money to prop up a herd of sucklers when there is a young child in the house . We wouldnt run a tight ship with the sucklers but they do cover their expenses every year and the father lives off his SFP (or buys machinery :rolleyes: )

Exactly my point there would be no wife she'd be gone out the door .whats gona happen when you take over and there is "no" single farm payment and the cows only cover themselves what kind of cows you have we have big ch cows 750/850kg animals eat all round them so couldn't have profit

rangler1

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Yes def well what will that do to the figures that were in the journal last week sure you would be a fool to be at it my uncle can't understand why I say there is noting out of it I live with him and my wife and baby he gets a good farm payment has a pension farm is only a hobby with him but he still has little or no money come end of year SFP pension and all and he wants me to stay In sucklers so il have no pension SFP will be 1/4 and I sappose il have to keep working to sapport the farm the way it's looking, don't know if I can get the finance to go milking tryin hard but the bottom line is I like having sucklers and like that lifestyle but that won't put food on the table for my family

Why bother farming at all, I'm in the same position as your uncle, no way is there two incomes here so I wouldn't drag down a young family by getting them involved here, surely your job is way ahead of anything the farm will give you.

Kevin the sheep

rangler1 wrote: »

Why bother farming at all, I'm in the same position as your uncle, no way is there two incomes here so I wouldn't drag down a young family by getting them involved here, surely your job is way ahead of anything the farm will give you.

Ya and I work 12 days on two days off where I work and guess what I work on a dairy farm full time might try contract rearing seems to be good money and could still work ?

moy83

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Exactly my point there would be no wife she'd be gone out the door .whats gona happen when you take over and there is "no" single farm payment and the cows only cover themselves what kind of cows you have we have big ch cows 750/850kg animals eat all round them so couldn't have profit

I dont know what will happen then . I have no big love of sucklers , but by smartening things up I know they will leave a margin but it probably won't be too profitable . My idea would be to minimise workload and leave them run extensively .
We have mostly aax and limx cows they are easy enough kept but in saying that some of their daughters that are coming on stream now have better built calves and its easy to see how lads keep breeding better cows for calf quality but we would find them cows a bit heavy for our place
Was it you that was asking about the difference in SR between the big and small cows ? Its an interesting question , if they could do a comparison between the cost of each for the year vs the price and weight of their weanling to see if there is much or any difference in the profit they leave

willfarmerman

If you are lucky enough to have a a piece of productive land with no debt attached you should be able to generate a bit of shopping money out of it. Excluding single farm payment. Now if you are snug finanancialy ie. wife working, a job, or got a big farm.. There is nothing wrong in investing the few bob back into the place as long as you are increasing your net worth.