Leather conditioner

Lyre61

I am looking for about 150 gallons of Leather conditioner for a project, any suggestions who I might try?

Curran

150 Gallons :eek:

You may not need it for a project on cars, but seeing as you posted this in a Motoring Forum, modern car leathers (mostly post late 80's) dont need conditioners. They just need cleaners.
Older types of leather do require cleaners and conditioners, to keep the leather subtle and prevent cracks, etc. Modern leathers have much more technology involved and conditioners do not absorb into the leather, and as a result they pretty much sit on top of the leather and attract dirt.

I could give you a contact of someone who might be able to help you out; UK based; PM me if you want it!

tossy

Where is this modern leather don't need conditioners coming from ? Of course the do once it's real leather.

Spike Witwicky

I have a spare bottle of AG Leather Conditioner. Dunno about the other 149.98 gallons though.
Found out after i bought it that i have "imitation leather"

Still cracked it open and gave it a go. Made the seat kinda slidy

Curran

tossy wrote: »

Where is this modern leather don't need conditioners coming from ? Of course the do once it's real leather.

Its not leather straight off the cows back....modern leather goes through quite a bit of modification during the manufacturing process!

Leather straight off the cows back is breathable....modern leather has practically no breathability! Here's how you might notice...if you spill something on your car seat, does it soak into the leather or does it pretty much sit on top of it?

Anyways...if you cant take my word for it, seeing as I've fairly limited experience of leather in comparison to this guys 20+ years working with leather, maybe you might take his on board!
When you've got 15 mins and read the .pdf file that is linked on that page too!

tossy

So why does modern leather crack and dry if you don't condition it?

I'd be very reluctant to take the word of someone who is trying to sell something else

Curran

Well if you really think about it, he's saying not to buy conditioner.....you'll always need cleaner first! You can just lash on conditioner onto dirty leather!

Modern leather "cracks" from wear and tear; nothing that a conditioner will do for that. The leather needs to be re-conditioned if it has gotten to that state...filler and re-sprayed if necessary.

If you were to take old school leather, and modern leather, say a 1ft square of each. Left them both on the dashboard inside the car, the old school leather would need to be conditioned regularly to stop the effects of the sun from drying it out and cracking. The modern leather will be far more resistant to this.

tossy

Curran wrote: »

Well if you really think about it, he's saying not to buy conditioner.....you'll always need cleaner first! You can just lash on conditioner onto dirty leather!

Modern leather "cracks" from wear and tear; nothing that a conditioner will do for that. The leather needs to be re-conditioned if it has gotten to that state...filler and re-sprayed if necessary.

If you were to take old school leather, and modern leather, say a 1ft square of each. Left them both on the dashboard inside the car, the old school leather would need to be conditioned regularly to stop the effects of the sun from drying it out and cracking. The modern leather will be far more resistant to this.

I can only speak from experience but i've seen leather recaro seats that were never cleaned or conditioned looking cracked/dried and in a poor state and ones that were pretty much conditioned from new or at least conditioned regularly looking as good as the did when the car rolled out of the factory, these would be seats getting a lot of wear from a big guy (me ) so i ccan't grasp this way of thinking that modern leather doesn't need conditioning, it does i've seen/owned the proof.

Curran

Literally just took these pictures from my car - car is 11 years old.
All leather in the car is cared for in the same way during my 4 year, 60k mile owership; car has 110k on the clock....mind you, the leather hasnt had any TLC in quite a while!

Drivers seat


Rear seat


Rear seats are rarely ever used. But are in pretty much factory condition. So the only difference is wear and tear! The drivers seat, if cleaned, wouldnt be as shiny, but would have the stretch marks etc. No conditioner is going to stop foam supports becoming soft and saggy and as a result the leather is going to be free to move more, there are no cracks in the leather, its worn and for want of a better term, able to crease more easily, but certainly not cracked (like in the image below)...yes in some places, it needs a bit of dye, but it would too if condition were to be used.




I cant really argue with your own personal findings! Wonder has it anything to do with Recaro changing things between two era's of car/seat....what type of car and age both of them were?

Sinister Pigeon

OP, I too am in need of 150 gallons of leather conditioner.

I intend opening the world's first beauty salon for gigantic cows - wait, you haven't stolen my idea have you?

Lyre61

imagine the amount of milk you would get from that

bxsmyth

Lyre61 wrote: »

I am looking for about 150 gallons of Leather conditioner for a project, any suggestions who I might try?

Lyre61,

Heya ... There are different types of leather conditioner available. Some are water-based moisturiser/dressing and some are more applicable as true conditioners that address diminished fat-liquor and moisture. If you let me know what you need the conditioner for, I can point you in the direction of manufacturers.

As Curran says, modern automotive leather does not necessarily need conditioning. It was previously thought that conditioner can not permeate the topcoat but this is not necessarily true in my experience. From the weight of passengers sitting and flexing the leather, the topcoat will become porous and will absorb liquids or creams that are applied. The problem here is that most conditioners do not address the reason why leather has become stiff or uncomfortable. They just temporarily moisturise the leather but the other side of that is that any oils contained in the conditioner may have a detrimental effect on the topcoat (same reason that oils need to be transported in different plastic bottles than drinks, for example. Oils break down urethanes).

Best practice for car leather is to clean and protect it. The hide is dynamic so any moisture lost to the atmosphere will also be regained from the atmosphere (especially in Ireland. Different if you live in continuously hot climates). Properly designed cleaners will also re-introduce pH controlled moisture back into the hide.

Just on the subject of leather cracking, its the result of continous stretching and flexing. Much like the wrinkles we all get on our faces from laughing or worrying (or whatever!). Those areas on the seat lose both elasticity from the use, and also the fatliquor from the tanning process diminishes there. Any off-the-shelf conditioners won't fix that problem, but personally I like to see natural wrinkles in leather. Otherwise, it looks too artificial (just my opinion).

Cheers,
Brian

randy hickey

^On behalf of the ladies and gentlemen of the Boards Car Detailing Forum, I'd like to welcome Brian Smyth of Spirit Detailing!

We have poor aul Curran's head wrecked here - but I'm looking forward to your input too Brian!

PurvesGrundy

So if it is true that using conditioner on modern leather is a pointless exercise, then how are Gliptone and the likes remaining in business? They must be keeping going in the hope that no one finds out the properties of modern leather, as surely the market for cars with old fashioned hide is too small to depend on.

bxsmyth

PurvesGrundy wrote: »

So if it is true that using conditioner on modern leather is a pointless exercise, then how are Gliptone and the likes remaining in business? They must be keeping going in the hope that no one finds out the properties of modern leather, as surely the market for cars with old fashioned hide is too small to depend on.

Thanks Randy! Curran does a sterling job keeping everyone up to date with smart detailing information.

You know, I think I'm the only detailer who actually has a mention on the Gliptone UK site. I really got up their nose about something a while back lol

99% of people believe that because leather conditioner exists, they have to buy it and use it. Its as simple as that. Their minds are conditioned more than the leather.

Most retail conditioners are just water-based emulsions with a silicone polymer in it to dress the leather (and because its got a silicone in it, it gets passed off as a protector). Then you might get a small amount of lanolin or similar thrown in so it looks good on the label. The result is that if the topcoat is permeable, then the wrong stuff is going to get through and into the fibrils, contributing to loss of strength and flexibility. What leather really needs is something as close to tannery fatliquor as possible because this is the important preservative. Modern vegetable or chrome tanning methods are such that good quality leather will retain the fatliquor and stay supple even in the harshest of conditions (physical or environmental). But most car manufacturers use mid-grade leather splits for the mass-produced cars. Although I've seen some Italian supercars from late 90's to early 2000's with really bad quality hides used on the interior.

Getting back to the point, the conditioner industry will probably continue as long as people perceive that their leather is getting a bit hard and "leathery" ..... Hopefully, nobody will put 2 and 2 together and realise why the leather is getting hard and everyone will keep making money.

I'm not saying don't use conditioners or your leather will fall apart! .... but I am simply recommending that cleaning properly is the most important thing for car leather, with perhaps an optional protector on the drivers seat or all seats if you have a busy family car.