Noonan, fair play and credit where its due.

NIMAN

Our politicians often get flak for their words and actions, their pay and bonuses, pensions etc, but just watching the news last night I had to think "fair play to you" as I listened to how Noonan had continued on working through cancer treatment.

Bear in mind this is a 71 yr old man, a man that in any other job would be retired long ago. OK so there is a thread about our politicians being too old, and maybe there is something to be said for not having 71 yr old men in such high pressure jobs, but I still feel that for Noonan to continue with his duties, and actually standing in for his boss as well, keeping all this news quiet and getting on with it, he deserves a lot of credit.

He could have just taken sick leave and enjoyed a few weeks of relaxation, but he didn't. That for me shows dedication that surely deserves some praise?

whippet

NIMAN wrote: »

He could have just taken sick leave and enjoyed a few weeks of relaxation, but he didn't. That for me shows dedication that surely deserves some praise?

I totally agree, there are politicians who do actually have a sense of public service and just like his predecessor Brian Lenihan.

At his age he could be living off a handsome pension and enjoying the twilight years but chooses to work in a really pressurised environment.

Marhay70

I've seen the opposite side of the coin too. People who are so obsessed with their job and standing that they can't bear to delegate.

whippet

Marhay70 wrote: »

I've seen the opposite side of the coin too. People who are so obsessed with their job and standing that they can't bear to delegate.

have you any evidence that this is the case here? or are you just from a mind set that feels that politicians can't get any credit what so ever for what they do?

Marhay70

whippet wrote: »

have you any evidence that this is the case here? or are you just from a mind set that feels that politicians can't get any credit what so ever for what they do?

I didn't suggest it was the case here, you inferred that all by yourself, I said I had seen instances. As you brought it up, have you any concrete evidence to prove it isn't the case?

whippet

Marhay70 wrote: »

I didn't suggest it was the case here, you inferred that all by yourself, I said I had seen instances. As you brought it up, have you any concrete evidence to prove it isn't the case?

well why would you bother posting something like that in a thread that is about the credit due to Michael Noonan unless you wanted to make an inference.

Marhay70

whippet wrote: »

well why would you bother posting something like that in a thread that is about the credit due to Michael Noonan unless you wanted to make an inference.

I could ask, why would you post a thread giving credit to Noonan when you have no evidence that credit is due? I didn't make an "implication", if that's what you mean, I stated a fact, you drew an inference.

NIMAN

Give it a rest, I was only saying the 71yr old man deserves a bit of credit.

OK so perhaps he should retire and let a younger man or woman have the job, but he has had a few tough years with the death of his wife and now his own cancer, yet I have never seen him dodge his duties or responsibilities. And for that I think he deserves our respect, whether you agree with his politics or not.

whippet

Marhay70 wrote: »

I could ask, why would you post a thread giving credit to Noonan when you have no evidence that credit is due? I didn't make an "implication", if that's what you mean, I stated a fact, you drew an inference.

nonsense ... the tone and manner of your post is quite clear and you we called out on it and now are trying to deflect the obvious

Calhoun

NIMAN wrote: »

Our politicians often get flak for their words and actions, their pay and bonuses, pensions etc, but just watching the news last night I had to think "fair play to you" as I listened to how Noonan had continued on working through cancer treatment.

Bear in mind this is a 71 yr old man, a man that in any other job would be retired long ago. OK so there is a thread about our politicians being too old, and maybe there is something to be said for not having 71 yr old men in such high pressure jobs, but I still feel that for Noonan to continue with his duties, and actually standing in for his boss as well, keeping all this news quiet and getting on with it, he deserves a lot of credit.

He could have just taken sick leave and enjoyed a few weeks of relaxation, but he didn't. That for me shows dedication that surely deserves some praise?

Maybe he does deserve some praise If his sole motivation for doing his job is just a sense of public service but thats hard to say.

It could also be argued that polticians do what they do for many selfish reason's, leaving a lasting legacy is one of them. Considering that he has no one to go home to this could be a factor.

So yah he deserves some praise for it but i dont like how the big C becomes a get out of jail free card. If it did get to a stage where it was the worst case scenario with this illness i would expect that he step down, as mentally he would not be in the right position to make wise decisions.

Dammer

Before you say "Fair Play" or "Credit where creidt is due" to or for Michael Noonan

Remember the Hep C scandal and his role.

Godge

Dammer wrote: »

Before you say "Fair Play" or "Credit where creidt is due" to or for Michael Noonan

Remember the Hep C scandal and his role.

Noonan's 2010 interview on Frontline where he talked about his wife's Alzheimer's diseases and apologised for what happened to the McColes should be required watching for all those who are cynical about politics and politicians.

I don't always agree with the man but I have a huge amount of respect for him since that interview as he clearly came across as someone who had realised his mistakes and wanted to atone for him.

Contrast his apology that night and the obvious contrition and remorse that he displayed with the mealy-mouthed SF so-called apologies for the killings in the Troubles for an understanding that the man is genuine.

walshb

I always had a soft spot for Noonan. Comes across as a genuine and decent man who tries his best to do the good thing. Still, a yesterday's man for me as regards politics. It's a sad state off affairs when there is no new blood capable of replacing him and some of the other hangers on!

NIMAN

Bottom line, if me or you had a lump removed and radium treatment, we would have been off work on the sick.

tayto lover

I'm just thinking of the last lad who made decisions while he had cancer.
We're all still paying for that.

Having said that I wish Noonan well with his illness.

walshb

NIMAN wrote: »

Bottom line, if me or you had a lump removed and radium treatment, we would have been off work on the sick.

Maybe he should be too. Really, give himself the best chance to live and beat this. It can't be easy to do both. What is the point in sticking out the job IF it means you are lessening your chances at life. Doesn't make sense.

Calhoun

NIMAN wrote: »

Bottom line, if me or you had a lump removed and radium treatment, we would have been off work on the sick.

Hard to say, as much as i would like to row in behind you with the cheer leading. If it was a like for like situation i don't know how i would act.

If it was me as-is of course i would be off sick as i have growing children and a family. Contrast this to a man who due to age is more than likely on his last big appointment, his kids are grown and he is a widower.

As they say make hay while the sun shines and all that. I do hope that he does consider the impact it has on his health as he could easily live another 20+ years.

Dammer

Godge wrote: »

Noonan's 2010 interview on Frontline where he talked about his wife's Alzheimer's diseases and apologised for what happened to the McColes should be required watching for all those who are cynical about politics and politicians.

13-14 years to apologise. Yeah I'm not cynical any more now :rolleyes:

Why would a politician discuss his wifes condition on Frontline? When there are plenty of other people could have talked about their experiences.

He must have sniffed a General Election in the air.
Looking for sympathy and good PR would be my guess.

For a then minister to threaten Irish citizens with taking them all the way through to the Supreme Court (and the costs involved against them) is disgraceful and he should never have been given a Ministry position again.

It was a blatant attempt to scare the McColes, and others into dropping their case.

Godge wrote: »

I don't always agree with the man but I have a huge amount of respect for him since that interview as he clearly came across as someone who had realised his mistakes and wanted to atone for him.

He scared sick Irish citizens with threats and he was the Minister of Health! That's the sort of person you have a huge amount of respect for? Really?

Godge wrote: »

Contrast his apology that night and the obvious contrition and remorse that he displayed with the mealy-mouthed SF so-called apologies for the killings in the Troubles for an understanding that the man is genuine.

How did you manage to bring SF into a discussion on Noonan?

That seems to be the standard FG response when they try to defend the indefensible. Bring up SF, It's actually getting pathetic when FG do that and only shows the weakness in their points.

Marhay70

whippet wrote: »

nonsense ... the tone and manner of your post is quite clear and you we called out on it and now are trying to deflect the obvious

Really, so apart from everything else you're qualified to presume to know what I'm thinking. Don't flatter yourself.

whippet

Marhay70 wrote: »

Really, so apart from everything else you're qualified to presume to know what I'm thinking. Don't flatter yourself.

I don't need to read minds when I can read your posts.

Ash.J.Williams

Marhay70 wrote: »

I've seen the opposite side of the coin too. People who are so obsessed with their job and standing that they can't bear to delegate.

he has delegated!! To shatter and reilly!! one is gone and one is on the way out!

petronius

I give Credit to Noonan for his handling and frankness, over his health episode.
I think the media have also treated it respectfully, unlike the scandalous behaviour of TV3 to Brian Lenihan.
Rightly Noonan was allowed get on with his treatment and procedure without the intrusion of a TV3 mic being shoved in his face going in or ultimatums to make a statement.

While i disagree with Noonan fundamentally on many things he got a lot of bad flak over the blood scandal and was leader at a bad time for the blueshirts.

tipptom

Jesus,Fine Gaelers on bragging about how he has carries on through his illness and then bring in Sinn Fein to the argument,is that you Charlie Flannagan.
The man should have been retired in 2002 when he nearly destroyed the FG party with his leadership and we would all have been done a favour.


He was weak then,weak when he was supposed to have been strong and fight for us against the EU like they promised when they were elected and the only time he has appeared strong was fighting a dying woman while using every tool of the state to try and break her.


I'm fed up of this country and its ministerial positions being used to pay back weak unsuitable people who made deals and supported an even weaker leader from a leadership battle grab.

petronius

I think GA and MM showed Noonan some respect today and didn't put the boot in while they wait for Kenny to return for that.

Noonan sacked Kenny from the shadow front bench and in fairness to kenny he didnt hold a grudge -

Our doffing the forelock and cowering to the EU/IMF edicts is what i disapprove of

tipptom

petronius wrote: »

I think GA and MM showed Noonan some respect today and didn't put the boot in while they wait for Kenny to return for that.

Noonan sacked Kenny from the shadow front bench and in fairness to kenny he didnt hold a grudge -

Our doffing the forelock and cowering to the EU/IMF edicts is what i disapprove of

Kenny probably held a grudge alright but that was forgotton about when a deal was reached at Ireland Inc s expense that Kenny would be supported by him in the putsch and he would secure the finance portfolio,nothing to do with whats best for Ireland.

For Reals

Personally I don't equate balancing the books to the detriment of the general public a victory of any sorts. If there was a trickle down effect, we'd have less millionaires and less working poor.
We could really balance the books if we dismissed the fortunes of a few hundred thousand unemployed
Each of us has his and her idea of what's too far of a cut. What separates the humanitarian from the corporate profit whore.
Like Lenihan, Noonan's illness is of no consequence.....well okay, If we are to weight his personal and professional sides in equal measure please note this:

FINANCE Minister Michael Noonan made a killing on his stockmarket bets in the past year....

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/noonan-makes-killing-in-stock-market-punts-30137701.html

Also is it not possible he was and is feathering the nests of his like minded european chums? Looking for a job for the boy? Fair play my ass.

I'll remember him for this, 'We took one for the team (laughs)'.

Idbatterim

FINANCE Minister Michael Noonan made a killing on his stockmarket bets in the past year....

who do we want running the department of finance, the likes of someone who makes a killing on the stockmarket or the SF or Labour equivalent :rolleyes: Then again they are such good socialists they probably wouldnt have any funds to speculate on the stockmarket with as they would be giving away their earnings to the needy and vulnerable...

oscarBravo

For Reals wrote: »

Personally I don't equate balancing the books to the detriment of the general public a victory of any sorts.

The implied corollary is that failing to balance the books would be to the benefit of the general public. Is that your belief?

comongethappy

oscarBravo wrote: »

The implied corollary is that failing to balance the books would be to the benefit of the general public. Is that your belief?

I sure didn't feel any benefit from a €20bn annual deficit!

For Reals

Idbatterim wrote: »

who do we want running the department of finance, the likes of someone who makes a killing on the stockmarket or the SF or Labour equivalent :rolleyes: Then again they are such good socialists they probably wouldnt have any funds to speculate on the stockmarket with as they would be giving away their earnings to the needy and vulnerable...

I simply believe its a little rich for the man choking the public to be rolling in dough himself. I'm sure it gives him a great insight into the daily lives of those whose finances he presides over

oscarBravo wrote: »

The implied corollary is that failing to balance the books would be to the benefit of the general public. Is that your belief?

No. Sure we could really be in the black if we simply closed all schools and hospitals. It's how and over what period.

Pretty apt and for the day that's in it:
http://youtu.be/OOwXyx2LOyM

comongethappy

For Reals wrote: »

I simply believe its a little rich for the man choking the public.

Would you prefer more debt?
No one worth listening to suggested the debt should be let grow.

Sure we could really be in the black if we simply closed all schools and hospitals. It's how and over what period.

Excellent reasoning.

sparkling sea

I would give more credit to Mr Noonan if he handed the reins over temporarily to someone in their full health, lessons should be leaned from the Brian Lenihan fiasco.

The country is up the creek and no matter how brave, well intentioned or even infallible these people think they are, at the end of the day the man was ill and should realise that the illness will (no matter how super human they would like us to believe they are) affect one's ability to do their job.

Minister Noonan should have stood down and/or have been asked to stand down temporarily until he was back to his full health; the fact that he didnt or wasn't asked to stand done to recuperate just show how infallible and untouchable these people believe they are.

We need people who can concentrate solely on the Irish recovery and Ministers with enough sense to look after their own health when they need too.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

eigrod

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Oh, I don't know. A significant number of Fianna Fáil Taoisigh & Ministers were very creative when it came to enhancing their personal finance.

tipptom

We need more teachers in politics.

The_Captain

tipptom wrote: »

We need more teachers in politics.

and publicans.

tipptom

The_Captain wrote: »

and publicans.

And solicitors,more solicitors.