Islamic marriage and recognition in Ireland

helpmeplease

Does Ireland automatically recognise Islamic marriages?

My GF and I are planning to get married under Islamic law (not in Ireland) in order to relocate and work together in the Middle East.

We are wondering what our status would be upon return to Ireland in a few years?

Can anyone clarify? Would we be automatically classed as a married couple, or would the state simply not recognise the marriage?

I would be grateful for any help. I am just looking for the legal aspect of this; I know some people may think this is unethical, but I would prefer not to discuss that here for personal reasons.

Thanks in advance.:)

Pro Hoc Vice

That is a very broad question, the answer will depend on the facts of the situation. What is classed as a religious marriage in one country may be a civil marriage in another. The answer to you question will depend on the country that the marriage takes place in as well as the exact way that state deals with that marriage.

As an example if a couple go to local Parish a Priest in ireland and get married in the church but do not follow the necessary civil process, well then they are not married according to the State, a marriage cert can not issue and so that couple in many countries are not married.

coylemj

The marriage needs to be recognised by the civil authorities in the country where the wedding took place. In crude terms, that means that if you get married in a tacky little chapel in Las Vegas, what matters is whether the state of Nevada recognises the marriage. If they do then it is considered a valid marriage in the US (where marriage is regulated by the individual states) and will be recognised as such in Ireland.

As you plan on getting married in an Islamic ceremony in a foreign country, can you advise us if the marriage will be recognised in that country by the civic authorities i.e. does an Islamic wedding cover both bases as most Christian marriages do in Ireland? In some countries like France there is a total separation of church and state so even Catholics (the majority religion in France) have to go through two completely separate ceremonies - the civil wedding usually in the local town hall followed by a Catholic wedding in the local church.

helpmeplease

Thank you both very much for the replies.

Yes coylemj, as far as I know the marriage will cover both bases. It will take place in the UAE.

I have just found (after posting this thread, typical) a piece on the UAE govt website that states

Registration of marriage
For Muslim expatriates, the marriage contract must be registered in a Sharia court in the UAE. For non-Muslim expatriates, marriage laws of their home country will be applied. In any case, all marriages must be registered with your embassies in the UAE.

So, I guess that that means it would be recognised in Ireland? Is my understanding correct?

coylemj

Will the authorities in the UAE give you a marriage certificate if you ask for one?

You'll have to recognise that telling us that you will register the marriage in a Sharia court doesn't mean much to us Irish, we know that 'sharia' is a term used to refer to Islamic rules but what exactly is a 'Sharia court' in the UAE - is it a branch of the government or is it a religious body?

For my money the test is whether you can produce a marriage certificate from the UAE government. I don't believe that you can 'register' a marriage with an Irish embassy abroad, I'd seriously doubt that they would want to get involved. There is no mention of any such facility on the Irish embassy (to the UAE) website

http://www.embassyofireland.ae/

SallyJ12

You can never be a 100% sure, so the best thing to do is point your q's to the Irish authorities as they'll be the one who will decide.

coylemj

SallyJ12 wrote: »

You can never be a 100% sure, so the best thing to do is point your q's to the Irish authorities as they'll be the one who will decide.

Who or what is 'the Irish authorities'?

Manach

coylemj wrote: »

Who or what is 'the Irish authorities'?

Offhand, the registry of marriages. I think the details are in the Civil Registration Act.

SallyJ12

Manach wrote: »

Offhand, the registry of marriages. I think the details are in the Civil Registration Act.

There you go! I would say as long as you've got a certificate that's a good start, however you can never be too sure with these things and the last thing the OP would want to do is to go through the whole process from scratch.

coylemj

Manach wrote: »

Offhand, the registry of marriages. I think the details are in the Civil Registration Act.

Will the 'Irish authorities' register a marriage which was conducted in a foreign country, assuming no ceremony of any kind took place in Ireland?

Pro Hoc Vice

coylemj wrote: »

Will the 'Irish authorities' register a marriage which was conducted in a foreign country, assuming no ceremony of any kind took place in Ireland?

No but the Irish Courts may be requested to make a determination as to the validity under Irish law of such a marriage. Also the INIS may be asked to grant status to a Non EEA citizen of such a marriage, and so make a determination as to the status of the marriage.

coylemj

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

No but the Irish Courts may be requested to make a determination as to the validity under Irish law of such a marriage. Also the INIS may be asked to grant status to a Non EEA citizen of such a marriage, and so make a determination as to the status of the marriage.

That's what I figured - the local registrar of marriages has no role to play in the matter under discussion which concerns a wedding planned to take place in a foreign country.

helpmeplease

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

No but the Irish Courts may be requested to make a determination as to the validity under Irish law of such a marriage.

If we return and don't make any such application to the courts, will we be automatically considered to be unmarried under Irish law?

Will our default status be married or unmarried?

And are we obliged to inform the Irish ''authorities'' that we were married under sharia law?

Thanks

Pro Hoc Vice

helpmeplease wrote: »

If we return and don't make any such application to the courts, will we be automatically considered to be unmarried under Irish law?

Will our default status be married or unmarried?

And are we obliged to inform the Irish ''authorities'' that we were married under sharia law?

Thanks

You are not really getting this, it does not matter what law you get married under, what matters is the marriage a legally valid marriage as recognised in the state of the marriage. If any question comes up in the future about the validity of that marriage the irish legal system through the courts can determine if you are married or not under irish law.

You second question goes back to the first you are either legally married or not its a matter of fact. If the a UAE says you are married then more than likely you are married for irish purposes. If a state says two people jumping over a brush on a full moon are married then more than likely under irish law they are married.

Question 3 well if your spouse is non EEA and you both wish to reside here then of course Ireland will have to be told on what basis ye are married, or if your spouse wants to claim SW then of course the State will want to know the status.

http://www.allxpats.com/dubai/marriages-in-dubai/

amen

For Muslim expatriates, the marriage contract must be registered in a Sharia court in the UAE. For non-Muslim expatriates, marriage laws of their home country will be applied. In any case, all marriages must be registered with your embassies in the UAE.

Does this not mean if you are non muslim you must satisfy the marriage laws of your home country i.e. Ireland which in this case would be mean applying for a license to marriage, both be single (currently not married etc), over 18 etc

coylemj

amen wrote: »

Does this not mean if you are non muslim you must satisfy the marriage laws of your home country i.e. Ireland which in this case would be mean applying for a license to marriage, both be single (currently not married etc), over 18 etc

My reading of it is that if you are not a Muslim you have no business going through any kind of a wedding in the UAE because it will not be recognised by them or in your home country.The implication of that statement is that Irish non-Muslims can go through some kind of a ceremony in the UAE and then register the 'wedding' with the Irish embassy but that just won't happen because Irish embassies abroad don't get involved in foreign weddings. As far as the local Irish embassy in any country is concerned, weddings are a domestic matter in which Irish diplomats have no role to play.

As far as the Irish law is concerned, if you get married abroad it must be a valid marriage by the laws of that country or it won't be recognised when you get home and that statement suggests that non-Muslims cannot get married in the UAE.

Victor

At least some Islamic marriages are NOT recognised in Ireland, e.g. second marriages. There was a refugee case involving a South Lebanese Army officer wanting to bring his second wife and their children to Ireland.

GerardKeating

helpmeplease wrote: »

Thank you both very much for the replies.

Yes coylemj, as far as I know the marriage will cover both bases. It will take place in the UAE.

I have just found (after posting this thread, typical) a piece on the UAE govt website that states



So, I guess that that means it would be recognised in Ireland? Is my understanding correct?

Why not just get married in Ireland?

Carawaystick

Victor wrote: »

At least some Islamic marriages are NOT recognised in Ireland, e.g. second marriages. There was a refugee case involving a South Lebanese Army officer wanting to bring his second wife and their children to Ireland.

concurrent, not consecutive I presume...


Re the OP
It's easy to convert to islam, to take advantage of the islamic law in uae, and then leave, recant and never return so you're not an apostate and chained to a cell until you're stoned to death.

goz83

Looks like the op wishes to move to an islamic country and get married for work reasons and then return to Ireland as a single legally married man.

GerardKeating

goz83 wrote: »

Looks like the op wishes to move to an islamic country and get married for work reasons and then return to Ireland as a single legally married man.

I took it as they he wanted to move to an Islamic country with his gf, and did not want any trouble (like getting 5,000 lashes for sex outside marriage) but I could be wrong.

coylemj

GerardKeating wrote: »

I took it as they he wanted to move to an Islamic country with his gf, and did not want any trouble (like getting 5,000 lashes for sex outside marriage) but I could be wrong.

If they're both Irish and were married here then there wouldn't be any problem, there are thousands of ex-pat married couples living in the Gulf. If both of you are non-Muslims and were validly married in another country, that counts as a legitimate marriage as far as the moral police are concerned.

helpmeplease wrote: »

My GF and I are planning to get married under Islamic law (not in Ireland) in order to relocate and work together in the Middle East.

I suspect his GF is a citizen of the UAE and a Muslim and that's why he wants an Islamic wedding.