Would you pay??

Lord Trollington

Last month I had to go to A&E in a hospital in Dublin.

I had chest pain and an irregular heartbeat which I could feel in my chest.With a history of heart trouble in the family I get checked regularly so this came out of the blue so I decided to go to A&E to get it checked.

I checked in at reception and they stated there would be €100 charge. I agreed.

I was seen briefly by a triage nurse who took my blood pressure and done an ECG. I was told to go to waiting room and a doctor would see me. This was at 9.30pm.

Almost 8 hours later at 5am in the morning I had not been seen by a doctor so I went home and made an appointment in a private hospital with I paid for myself.

Received 2 letters since one from the hospital and one from a debt collecting agency looking for their €100 fee.

I don't think I should pay €100 for a pathetic service on top of my PRSI and tax I pay weekly on my wages.

Opinions??

Banjo String

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Last month I had to go to A&E in a hospital in Dublin.

I had chest pain and an irregular heartbeat which I could feel in my chest.With a history of heart trouble in the family I get checked regularly so this came out of the blue so I decided to go to A&E to get it checked.

I checked in at reception and they stated there would be €100 charge. I agreed.

I was seen briefly by a triage nurse who took my blood pressure and done an ECG. I was told to go to waiting room and a doctor would see me. This was at 9.30pm.

Almost 8 hours later at 5am in the morning I had not been seen by a doctor so I went home and made an appointment in a private hospital with I paid for myself.

Received 2 letters since one from the hospital and one from a debt collecting agency looking for their €100 fee.

I don't think I should pay €100 for a pathetic service on top of my PRSI and tax I pay weekly on my wages.

Opinions??

Before the high horse lot get in........

The way I read this, you didn't get seen by a doctor, and Imo didn't receive a service for which you've been billed.

I'd fight it.

catallus

They'll have it on their records that you did not avail of their services, but given the labyrinthine bureaucratic nightmare that is the HSE you will need to inform them of this. Write them a letter. Keep the words small and keep the letter short. Don't give them anything to question. Just say you were never there. If they say you were, just say you were admiring the decor in A&E

--LOS--

But that's the reality of A & E, a doctor would have been around to see you in the morning, not at 5am though, but if you hung on a couple more hours. If your issue was urgent, you would have been treated a lot sooner. But it wasn't. I don't really know what you're complaining about

Temptamperu

A&E works by the triage seeing everything and judging who is most important/serious. You were not as serious as all those people who were also at the A&E.

I didnt know they were charging admittance but with the number of drunken fools and kids I can understand the price.

Maximus Alexander

Oh hell no.

flutered

a debt collection company can do zzilch, write to the hospital concerned, tell them you had a contract with them, not the debt collection agency, also you do not intend to enter corospondence with them, then explain that as they did not provide a doctor within a reasonable timeframe, as you were unwell you required rest and a little food, so you had no option healthwise but to leave and seek medical assistance elsewhere, keep it short and to the point, do not ramble all ove rthe place.

Lord Trollington

--LOS-- wrote: »

But that's the reality of A & E, a doctor would have been around to see you in the morning, not at 5am though, but if you hung on a couple more hours. If your issue was urgent, you would have been treated a lot sooner. But it wasn't. I don't really know what you're complaining about

There in lies the problem in Ireland. Our health service is shambolic but that's just the way it is and We should just accept it.

Sir Osis of Liver.

The Viper is coming to get you OP.

You're fcuked.

Shakespeare's Sister

I dunno. You did choose to leave, and you also got seen by a nurse. In my opinion you should send a partial payment by bank draft and a letter explaining why you're not paying in full.

Temptamperu

Lord Trollington wrote: »

There in lies the problem in Ireland. Our health service is shambolic but that's just the way it is and We should just accept it.

its one of the best in europe but dont let facts get in the way of your opinion.

JuliusCaesar

But he was seen by a triage nurse. The results obviously didn't warrant him being prioritised, Lord Trollington wasn't an urgent case.


Personally, I'd prefer A&E to be run in a way that prioritises the urgent cases, rather than seeing people in chronological order of arrival. Or would Lord Trollington prefer to be seen at the expense of somebody in need of urgent medical attention?

shruikan2553

Temptamperu wrote: »

its one of the best in europe but dont let facts get in the way of your opinion.

Once you actually get treatment its good but nobody should have to wait 8 hours for a doctor to look at them.

Banjo String

Magaggie wrote: »

I dunno. You did choose to leave, and you also got seen by a nurse. In my opinion you should send a partial payment by bank draft and a letter explaining why you're not paying in full.

If you were in the hairdresser's/barbers and you know a wash, cut and blown dry was (for argument sake) €50

You arrive in and get your seat and magazine............


7hrs later.................


You get up and leave because sitting in the waiting room for seven hours isn't acceptable.....


Would you pay the hairdresser or Barber for the pleasure of waiting in their waiting room, even though your hair is as it was when you went In?

Lord Trollington

Temptamperu wrote: »

its one of the best in europe but dont let facts get in the way of your opinion.

For the level of funding the HSE gets I don't believe we're getting value for money despite what numbers on a page may tell you about Europe.

Donkey Oaty

Lord Trollington wrote: »

There in lies the problem in Ireland. Our health service is shambolic

Don't get angry, m'lud, you'll give yourself a heart attack.

michael999999

Pics of the nurse or GTFO!

Anita Blow

--LOS-- wrote: »

But that's the reality of A & E, a doctor would have been around to see you in the morning, not at 5am though, but if you hung on a couple more hours. If your issue was urgent, you would have been treated a lot sooner. But it wasn't. I don't really know what you're complaining about

The guy had been waiting 8 hours at that stage. Do you think "a doctor would have been around to see you in the morning" is an acceptable amount of time to wait for someone who had presented at 9am the night before? Absolutely not, and I work in a hospital and have an acute knowledge of patient prioritisation.

The OP left after waiting a more than reasonable amount of time and he did not receive the service he had presented for by the time he had left. He should not have to pay the €100 and the HSE will quite likely not charge him if he contacts them and informs them of the situation.

Shakespeare's Sister

Banjo String wrote: »

If...

Well I did suggest only partial payment. He was seen by the nurse, so it's not correct that he wasn't seen at all.
I agree the waiting time is very excessive but it doesn't change that he chose to leave.

looksee

If there was nothing wrong with the ecg he should have been told there was nothing to worry about and go home, possibly told he would get an appointment as an outpatient. If there was a problem with the ecg he should have been seen by a doctor.

I had the exact same problem as the OP, I have a heart condition which is controlled, but I have been into A&E on several occasions over a number of years and dealt with as an emergency.

Recently I felt ill, had chest pains and a neighbour took me to A&E. An ecg was done around 7 in the evening. The waiting room was very busy. By midnight the waiting room was cleared apart from myself and maybe 3 people waiting for other people. I had asked around 10 how long I would have to wait. By this time the chest pains had gone and while i didn't feel great, I guessed I had had some sort of panic attack. There did not seem to be any reason why I was still sitting there - it does not take long to check an ecg but it was not done. Eventually I got a taxi and went home. I did get the impression I was being 'punished' for going to A&E for frivolous reasons. So much for telling us not to ignore chest pains and signs of stroke!

Banjo String

Magaggie wrote: »

Well I did suggest only partial payment. He was seen by the nurse, so it's not correct that he wasn't seen at all.
I agree the waiting time is very excessive but it doesn't change that he chose to leave.

Ok, yeah that's a good enough point too.

Lord Trollington

What is an acceptable amount of time to wait to be seen by a doctor in A&E??

smellmepower

Nurse saw and assessed op,deemed him/her not to be a priority,so you wait.Don't see what the problem is.You were informed of the charge before you received services and took up the time of a nurse,so you should pay for it.

If you waited that long,you may as well have waited another while to see a doc if you were that worried.

medi_bai

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Last month I had to go to A&E in a hospital in Dublin.

I had chest pain and an irregular heartbeat which I could feel in my chest.With a history of heart trouble in the family I get checked regularly so this came out of the blue so I decided to go to A&E to get it checked.

I checked in at reception and they stated there would be €100 charge. I agreed.

I was seen briefly by a triage nurse who took my blood pressure and done an ECG. I was told to go to waiting room and a doctor would see me. This was at 9.30pm.

Almost 8 hours later at 5am in the morning I had not been seen by a doctor so I went home and made an appointment in a private hospital with I paid for myself.

Received 2 letters since one from the hospital and one from a debt collecting agency looking for their €100 fee.

I don't think I should pay €100 for a pathetic service on top of my PRSI and tax I pay weekly on my wages.

Opinions??

Got a couple of letters from the HSE a few years ago, much in the manner you have, think I got one more after that. I kept ignoring them and they stopped. never got a penny off me and my credit rating wasnt affected, so f*ck them, don't pay.

I didn't pay as the care I received was like you abismal.

Lord Trollington

smellmepower wrote: »

Nurse saw and assessed op,deemed him/her not to be a priority,so you wait.Don't see what the problem is.You were informed of the charge before you received services and took up the time of a nurse,so you should pay for it.

If you waited that long,you may as well have waited another while to see a doc if you were that worried.

How long more should I have waited, in your opinion?

If you read my OP you would see I was worried and I opted to pay for a private hospital assessment.

Crasp

If you were not seen by a doctor you do not have to pay. The bill was likely automatically sent out or erroneously sent. If you contact the hospital billing department (details in the letter) they should be able to sort it for you.

crosstownk

BP and ECG mustn't have shown anything of concern so OP was made to wait as low priority. If BP or ECG was off the scale then maybe things would have been different and would have been seen quicker.

OK - so OP was considered low priority but even as low priority 8 hours waiting is ridiculous.

Drakares

--LOS-- wrote: »

But that's the reality of A & E, a doctor would have been around to see you in the morning, not at 5am though, but if you hung on a couple more hours. If your issue was urgent, you would have been treated a lot sooner. But it wasn't. I don't really know what you're complaining about

Bolded for the lol. Yeah, sure that's the standard in Ireland now isn't it? How is it in any way acceptable that there's that long of a wait to see a doctor in a hospital?

Here in Germany - You might, just might be left waiting 2 hours in A&E if they're really busy. Otherwise they normally see you within a half hour since the hospitals here are well managed, funded, staffed and not overrun with Junkies.

shruikan2553

The system they use is highly flawed. It is a priority based algorithm that means that a lower priority patient may never be seen. Time a patient has been waiting and time to deal with the patient should be considered.

end of the road

--LOS-- wrote: »

But that's the reality of A & E, a doctor would have been around to see you in the morning, not at 5am though, but if you hung on a couple more hours. If your issue was urgent, you would have been treated a lot sooner. But it wasn't. I don't really know what you're complaining about

he had chest pain and an irregular heartbeat, and you wonder what he's complaining about? for all he knew he could have been having a heart attack, thankfully he wasn't, but thats not the point

Smithwicks Man

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Last month I had to go to A&E in a hospital in Dublin.

I had chest pain and an irregular heartbeat which I could feel in my chest.With a history of heart trouble in the family I get checked regularly so this came out of the blue so I decided to go to A&E to get it checked.

I checked in at reception and they stated there would be €100 charge. I agreed.

I was seen briefly by a triage nurse who took my blood pressure and done an ECG. I was told to go to waiting room and a doctor would see me. This was at 9.30pm.

Almost 8 hours later at 5am in the morning I had not been seen by a doctor so I went home and made an appointment in a private hospital with I paid for myself.

Received 2 letters since one from the hospital and one from a debt collecting agency looking for their €100 fee.

I don't think I should pay €100 for a pathetic service on top of my PRSI and tax I pay weekly on my wages.

Opinions??

Do nothing, they won't follow it up. I don't think you should have to pay based on what you've stated.

PizzamanIRL

Why would you pay a debt collecting agency? That's just burning money. Ignore the letters that will come and the multiple 'final' warnings and keep your money.

Karl Stein

♫ Under the sea,
Under the sea,
There'll be no accusations,
Just friendly crustaceans!
Under the Seeeeeeeeeeeeea! ♫

kneemos

How do you sit in a waiting room for eight hours?Always amazed by people's stories of having to wait for incredible periods,what do you do for eight hours?that's a full working day ffs.

roadsmart

I had a very similar experience as you OP, I was knocked down by a car and ambulanced to hospital 2 years ago, placed on a trolley and 6 hours later I limped out of the place not having been seen after initial assessment. I was feckin sore for a few weeks afterwards! In the following months I got 4 demands for payment, but they stopped after I wrote a letter outlining the circumstances.

end of the road

smellmepower wrote: »

Nurse saw and assessed op,deemed him/her not to be a priority,so you wait.Don't see what the problem is.You were informed of the charge before you received services and took up the time of a nurse,so you should pay for it.

If you waited that long,you may as well have waited another while to see a doc if you were that worried.

no he shouldn't pay, he has payed all ready, via tax

Lord Trollington

kneemos wrote: »

How do you sit in a waiting room for eight hours?Always amazed by people's stories of having to wait for incredible periods,what do you do for eight hours?that's a full working day ffs.

I sat listening to the ramblings of an old lady behind me that had just about every ailment known to man. This time she wasn't there for herself, it was her sister.

No TV. Tea and Coffee vending machine was out of order. Managed to peak through the door into the A & E department and inside were many people on trollies in the corridor. none of these were admitted whilst I was there and seemed for the most part to have been laying there in the corridor for 6+ hours.

Many on drips ect.

One of the best healthcare systems in Europe.

looksee

kneemos wrote: »

How do you sit in a waiting room for eight hours?Always amazed by people's stories of having to wait for incredible periods,what do you do for eight hours?that's a full working day ffs.

You just sit, and sit, and maybe doze a bit if you are not feeling great, and sit some more, and gaze blankly at the silent tv. And continue to sit.

dizzymiss

I dont know what is worse? The fact that you went in with chest pain (regardless of triage, chedt pain gets or should get priority! Not everything shows up on ECG) and never saw a doctor or even after 8 hrs you never say a doctor and are being billed for it. An earlier poster mentioned you would have seen a doctor in the morning not at 5am, there are doctors in A&E all night. Just more after 9am.

Id fight it. Why would you pay for a service you never actually had use of.

Lord Trollington

This will be the 3rd time I've asked this question.

How long should I have waited to be seen by a doctor before it's deemed unacceptable in a developed country??

Smithwicks Man

Lord Trollington wrote: »

This will be the 3rd time I've asked this question.

How long should I have waited to be seen by a doctor before it's deemed unacceptable in a developed country??

That question is impossible to answer as it depends on the number and severity of other cases in the ER at the time.

But I've been in before where there seemed to be no emergencies and still had to wait over 5 hours.


Anything over 3-4 hours is a bit ridiculous imo.

dizzymiss

For chest pain, you should have been seen straight away, bypassing triage especially given the fact there's a strong history. So answering your question, you shouldnt have to have waited. We have always been told (im a nurse and have spent some time in an emergency dept), chest pain gets priority.

Dozen Wicked Words

Lord Trollington wrote: »

This will be the 3rd time I've asked this question.

How long should I have waited to be seen by a doctor before it's deemed unacceptable in a developed country??

You waited too long, the Irish health care system is going to sh*t but I'm not sure I quite follow your train of thought that night. You go to a and e without seeing gp/out of hours Dr service because presumably you are very worried about your health. Until the early hours, then what, the worry goes, impatience takes over and you feel happy enough to walk out and wait, several more hours to see a doctor privately?

Entirely up to you whether you choose to pay or not. Non payment isn't going to magically improve the system though.

Lord Trollington

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

You waited too long, the Irish health care system is going to sh*t but I'm not sure I quite follow your train of thought that night. You go to a and e without seeing gp/out of hours Dr service because presumably you are very worried about your health. Until the early hours, then what, the worry goes, impatience takes over and you feel happy enough to walk out and wait, several more hours to see a doctor privately?

Entirely up to you whether you choose to pay or not. Non payment isn't going to magically improve the system though.

What would you have done ??

Dozen Wicked Words

Lord Trollington wrote: »

What would you have done ??

If I was concerned about my heart as you say you were I would have waited, for as long as it took.

Lord Trollington

Not knowing how long more I had to wait, having waited almost 8hours already and was still alive I opted to go home and sort an appointment privately for 9.30 that morning.

StinkyMunkey

Dont go to A&E in Ireland if you can help it. Better off going to GP if you can wait till next day.

The health service in Ireland is a joke, not because of the doctors or nurses, or even the care you recieve. Its simply the wait times, ive had to misadventure of having to use A&E in Ireland on a number of occassions, and its nasty as fcuk. Dont get sick or have an accident at the weekends, A&E is at its worst at the weekends. People who work in hospitals work with the resources they have, they can only do thier best.

Id pay tbh, they prolly leave you waiting longer next time you in A&E if you dont.

Dozen Wicked Words

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Not knowing how long more I had to wait, having waited almost 8hours already and was still alive I opted to go home and sort an appointment privately for 9.30 that morning.

That's your choice and you were free to make it. I'm saying my health trumps impatience every time. Your still alive now thankfully so the hospital assessment was obviously correct that you could wait.

shruikan2553

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

That's your choice and you were free to make it. I'm saying my health trumps impatience every time. Your still alive now thankfully so the hospital assessment was obviously correct that you could wait.

If they knew he was fine why could a nurse just tell him that he could go?

Lou.m

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Last month I had to go to A&E in a hospital in Dublin.

I had chest pain and an irregular heartbeat which I could feel in my chest.With a history of heart trouble in the family I get checked regularly so this came out of the blue so I decided to go to A&E to get it checked.

I checked in at reception and they stated there would be €100 charge. I agreed.

I was seen briefly by a triage nurse who took my blood pressure and done an ECG. I was told to go to waiting room and a doctor would see me. This was at 9.30pm.

Almost 8 hours later at 5am in the morning I had not been seen by a doctor so I went home and made an appointment in a private hospital with I paid for myself.

Received 2 letters since one from the hospital and one from a debt collecting agency looking for their €100 fee.

I don't think I should pay €100 for a pathetic service on top of my PRSI and tax I pay weekly on my wages.

Opinions??

Very sorry OP and I hope you are ok.

I think a lot of us are completely disillusioned with both the private and public health service now.

Just look at what is happening with our ambulance services.

What a pathetic service.

I don't think you should have to pay.

But I do think you should have put yourself first.

I would have badgered until I got seen.

Dozen Wicked Words

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If they knew he was fine why could a nurse just tell him that he could go?

We will never know what other tests they might have wanted to do because op didn't wait to find out.