Online Dating - Penpals

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

I have a situation here and I wasn't sure whether or not I should put it here or in the LGBT forums.

I've ben talking to a guy I like for over 6 months. Neither of us are out and are dealing with some family things outside of the issue of coming out. I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to come out properly and feel like the time is right. I'm a primary school teacher and my profession doesn't exactly welcome my prefernce with open arms, particularly as I'm in a small, religious school.

My problem is that I met a guy online and we 'fell' for each other very quickly. We're both the same age, similar interests, live 20km from each other in Connaught. We have yet to meet, even as an anonymous thing. as both of us realised that if we did meet it'd be more than an anonymous situation and we'd want more than a one night stand can offer. We decided we'd wait until we both came out to our families at least.

The guy told me about a lot of personal things: Mother has cancer, brother is downs and now he's become his part time carer, his dad has MH issues and is in and out of hospital. After months of talking I guess I felt it was getting to the point where we have to sh!t or get off the pot. I mentioned this to him briefly and he was open to it saying that it will happen, he just needs to sort his head out, but that he promised me it's going somewhere it's just that he's dealing with millions of other things too.

I found out last week that he lied to me about where he lives and he actually lives in the next town over (which is still 20km away). Although this makes very little difference to me, I feel a bit ****ty about it. he told me he didn't tell me about it because he wasn't out and that it was because of him being in the closet and such but that he didn't want to be lying anymore. We're both in our early 30s and I know the above sounds very childish and immature etc. but we're both very much in the closet right now.

I don't really know what to do. I know I can come out and find happiness for myself but I think he'd be someone I could potentially love. I've had small relationships in the past all of it shrouded in secrecy and that. it wasn't easy but I don't know. I'm not sure what to make of it all.

What do you guys think? My gut reaction is to either give an ultimatum or just cut contact. The problem is is that I fancy the arse off him.....and we chat on the phone every now and then and neither of us stops laughing.....

Any ideas?

ongarboy

ConfirmingItAll wrote: »

Hi guys,


My problem is that I met a guy online and we 'fell' for each other very quickly. We're both the same age, similar interests, live 20km from each other in Connaught. We have yet to meet, even as an anonymous thing. as both of us realised that if we did meet it'd be more than an anonymous situation and we'd want more than a one night stand can offer.

This part jumped out at me. I cannot understand how you can possibly "fall" or be "in love" with someone in real terms if you have not met. Sure, you can tick a lot of boxes and determine some chemistry through phone calls and knowing what they look like etc but unless I'm missing something, until you actually meet, how do you know if there is a chance that a proper relationship would form or that it is worth all this agonizing over?

While not ideal, what is stopping both of you from conducting a secret relationship, at least so that you can get to know this guy properly? Assuming neither of you are married or have girlfriends (or other boyfriends) and are not answerable to anyone (as 30somethings, this should have stopped when you turned 18), what's stopping you guys meeting up once a week for coffee, a night out, a walk in the park, a night in a hotel in another town, a city break away? Millions of lovers or platonic friends do this all the time and it's not suspicious - why would it be so for you unless you have a sign over your head saying "I'm a closet homosexual and this is my lover".

I acknowledge how restrictive being in the closet can be (spent a few years doing that myself in my early 20s) but you both are living your lives as if you are in some high security prison with virtually no time to be free, consenting adults. Are your lives that dictated by other people? While being in the closet will never be a healthy way to live your life, some closeted guys do have a relationship even if it means enduring a lot of secrets, being liberal with the truth and staging/planning for scenarios. You two however are taking it to the extreme. I see that this other guy has a lot of baggage. It may not be worth having to endure that on top of being in the closet but back to my original point. How can you place all this sort of hassle and compromise on yourself when you haven't even met the guy?

Either treat him like a penpal as you say in your thread title and accept that you will only have an online virtual friendship or else if you want more, then it has to involve real encounters and the will of both parties to develop properly. A relationship cannot naturally grow or evolve in this sort of rut and will only breed (as it already has) frustration, resentment and upset.

blatantrereg

I agree. Real person will be different to imaginary person you have built around phone calls and emails. Real person might be perfect for you or not compatible at all. Either way, not the imaginary person. Doesn't matter if he is completely genuine in your contact, he's still partially imaginary when you haven't met. The same will be true for how he sees you too.

Decouple coming out with meeting him. It just adds pressure on both hugely. You can go for coffee with someone without needing to tell your neighbours you're homosexual.

Maphisto

A couple of things. I often find in long op's different contribuors pick up different bits, until the OP comes back clarifies this bit or whatever.

So my 2 cents. I think its completely unimportant that he lied where he lived at first. I think very few people don't on the internet and they are all left with the problem when they get talking to someone significant of owning up to that lie. BTW I don't really live in Maphisto Towers.

The poster above me made a lot of sense. Why link this first meet with coming out and even with sex. You're building that first meet up to be something like a parachute jump (no pun intended).

Why not meet on neutral ground somewhere for a coffee or a bag of chips. Just keep it as low key as possible.

All the best.

AnonMouse

I am a heterosexual male, and I really feel for the both of you. I find it very sad that you feel the need to hide your sexuality, out of fear of your employer etc. This should not be the case, as under employment law, you cannot be discriminated against based on your sexuality. Sure, it may be a religious school, so if there was a problem, you should remind them of the religious teaching of accepting people the way they are. It shouldn't be a problem if you keep it among staff, and the pupils don't know. I'm not disresecting you at all by the way. I can only imagine the difficulties in coming out, and I wish you well when the time comes for you to do it.

Regarding this guy you are in contact with - it sounds like he has a lot on his plate, so I would definitely forgive the lie about where he lives, especially considering both of your requirements for discretion. Having experienced many online dating communications, I do think it is important for you guys to meet relatively soon, so you can either pursue something, or else stop wondering how it would be.

Whatever happens, I wish you well

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the comments, it was really helpful and got me into action.

I called the lad last night and we had a great chat about the entire situation... Unfortunatley, it looks like I'm being put on the long finger even further. He wants to meet and is really excited about it but just is scared about it. I recommended what ye lads said about meeting in another town or alone somewhere but he said that if we started with one we'd keep going and that he doens't want to start something like that and wud perfer to do it properly if he's to do it.

Not sure where this leaves me. I'm going to have a think but think it's best to either drop it and move on or just keep in tough and see if things work out for us in the future. either way i'm a bit gutted today

miamee

Sorry to hear this OP. He likes the company of having you on the end of the phone/texts but the reality of you is something he is not ready for. I would cut contact now and move along looking for a guy who actually wants to kiss you, hold your hand, etc. not just talk about it in a text message (to be blunt about it).

LegacyUser

Yeah.... I know you're right and I know I deserve better then this. I can see me continuing to chat to him and being patient. I know that's not the best thing to do but guess I'm also lonely.

December2012

What does he think is going to happen if you meet for coffee? A pint?

You're not going to be outed by meeting up like that; you don't have to kiss or show any non platonic affection. It's just meeting up.

And of he can't do that because he'll want to do more then that's crazy. Does he ever meet a friend or acquaintance?

Reading all of the posts makes me wonder if there's somebody else involved and if you are the bit on the side.

Obliq

ConfirmingItAll wrote: »

he said that if we started with one we'd keep going and that he doens't want to start something like that and wud perfer to do it properly if he's to do it.

I think that sounds quite honest, but he's plainly very scared of succeeding with you and starting a ball rolling towards coming out. I'd say he's right that if you do start meeting even casually, that it will inevitably mean the relationship will develop to a point where he HAS to make a choice between coming out or staying in the closet. Ask him does he intend to put that choice off forever? It would be a pity, wouldn't it....and someone will hopefully be there to be with him and support him if he does decide to try and live openly. Perhaps that someone is you?

However, you have your own issues with this. I'm not sure I can see it working out that you both come out at once as possibly this fella is being enabled to stay in the closet by you still being there too.....

December2012 wrote: »

And of he can't do that because he'll want to do more then that's crazy. Does he ever meet a friend or acquaintance?
.

I'd say less "crazy" and more "scared rigid" that this development would be hard to back-track from. Doesn't bode well for there being truth behind him actually intending to come out in the near future.....

LegacyUser

Sorry, back again.. Feel bad hijacking everyones time on this.

Yeah i think he is being honest. I asked him straight up was there a girl involved or a beard/ kids or anything like that and he said 'no one, i'm a closet case not an ashole' which was fair enough.

I feel the same. Feel like if we start seeing each other casually it'd just turn into something. I know i'm prob enabling him here too as you said but i dunno what to do. apart of me is saying 'delete and block' and other part is saying 'hold on.. what he says he's getting there... is this worth it? should i continue to wait?'. it's a bit upsetting. i do have genuine feelings for him and i feel like a teenager saying taht about someone i havent met yet.

my career means i have to be v careful about coming out but it can be done. his career is a bit more strict about stuff like that which is a shame. i hate that i am gay sometimes. i am all for gay rights and marriage and pride parades etc. but the reality is that stuff like this is still very much an issue for some people.

Obliq

ConfirmingItAll wrote: »

Sorry, back again.. Feel bad hijacking everyones time on this.

Yeah i think he is being honest. I asked him straight up was there a girl involved or a beard/ kids or anything like that and he said 'no one, i'm a closet case not an ashole' which was fair enough.

I feel the same. Feel like if we start seeing each other casually it'd just turn into something. I know i'm prob enabling him here too as you said but i dunno what to do. apart of me is saying 'delete and block' and other part is saying 'hold on.. what he says he's getting there... is this worth it? should i continue to wait?'. it's a bit upsetting. i do have genuine feelings for him and i feel like a teenager saying taht about someone i havent met yet.

my career means i have to be v careful about coming out but it can be done. his career is a bit more strict about stuff like that which is a shame. i hate that i am gay sometimes. i am all for gay rights and marriage and pride parades etc. but the reality is that stuff like this is still very much an issue for some people.

Damn, typed a whole reply and lost it due to laptop stupidity. Off I go again :-(

I know how much of an issue this is in Ireland - this is a place where there is state sanctioned discrimination and traditional family morality judging you for your sexuality before you have ever even entered into a relationship with each other. Pressure much?! I can empathise with you but I don't know about the extent of it personally, being a heterosexual female. There are gay support groups though, and I honestly think either or both of you would benefit from contacting people who have been in very similar circumstances in Ireland, who are well aware of the kind of emotional upheavals you will endure in the process of coming out here, and can give you real support.

Can I just say that you are clearly not teenagers, whatever about the juvenile position you are put in by the current strictures of our society. This is not your fault, that simultaneously at the very beginnings of a relationship you have to consider the ramifications for family, friends and careers, not to mention acceptance by the wider society. It is a teenage position you're put in, to have to consider your parents and social group before getting together with someone.

I want to tell you that you are loved and valued by the likes of me in Ireland for exactly who you are, and there is support out there I know, but I'm sorry I can't point you in the right direction. Maybe the LGBT forum could help with this. Another thing I want to say is that if either or both of you do come out, it will be for a reason such as this....for love (or potential for love) and companionship. I hope you find it and I wish you both the best of luck and acceptance. XX

Ps. This: 'no one, i'm a closet case not an ashole' - He sounds great. Hope you can support each other through this to something you can both be comfortable with. Really rooting for you both here :-)

cgcsb

I'm going to say something completely different from other posters here and it may seem harsh, but I'm giving you my honest out look, as a gay man who has faced down quite sever homophobia in the past.

To be honest with you, you should be 100% out and happy with yourself regardless of this guy. You shouldn't come out for him but for yourself. The guy in question, I appreciate he's going through difficult times, but a man in his 30's who lives independently should bot be afraid of coming out. The other things he's dealing with are serving as excuses for not being honest, and that type of person will continually find excuses to not be honest about all sorts of things.

Also regarding online dating, you could feel quite strongly for this person physically and emotionally, but in relationships most communication is non verbal i.e. texting and emailing isn't conveying 100% of the message therefore you imagine the parts you are missing. Consequently, the person you are in love with is at least some % a figment of your imagination. You won't know how you truley feel about this person until you meet face to face.

Given that you are only 20km apart the only reason not to meet is fear, and if love is true it will conquer fear. If it's not true, you'll only get excuses. I hope this helps and you.

CaraMay

Op you have given away a lot of person details on this man which could make him identifiable. I think you should delete the details about his family from this thread.

I don't understand why you just can't meet for coffee etc and see if you are suited.

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

I just want to say some of the above comments made me a bit teary in a very good way. It's amazing how powerful these forums can be.

I am just about to head out the door to a stag but I just wanted to confirm with the above poster that I have changed certain info about our case in order for it not to be identifable. I used different locations/ diseases/ family members etc.

I agree that love conquers fear.. but i think you're minimising his situation and a bit.

cgcsb

ConfirmingItAll wrote: »

I agree that love conquers fear.. but i think you're minimising his situation and a bit.

Perhaps, but I've experience with the whole 'I can't come out cos my mum/dad/granny is sick' thing, it's often a smoke screen for insecurity, I find. Best of luck with it.

LegacyUser

Thanks man, we'll see how it goes.. maybe it's one of those things where I have to experience it and learn from it rather than take advice on board. Love might conquer fear but it's also as blind as f!ck!

Thanks guys for all the above, I'll keep you all update.

Ham Sambo

I agree with cgcsb to a point, however I can't see why both of you can't meet for lunch some afternoon, it's not as if you are going out on a date or anything. Can I ask a question that might sound really stupid, but it's in the back of my mind since reading the other posts..Is there a chance that this guy isn't gay at all but perhaps enjoys the thought of being intimate with another guy?? Just throwing it out there, maybe I am completely missing the mark here.