Bank not being fair

Stalfos

Does anyone know a bank who would give me a fair chance at getting a decent mortgage? I've been to most of em already including my own and they all drop the quote by half when i tell em i'm on a flex/full time contract.
It doesn't seem to matter to them how much i make, it's all about the least i get according to my contract.
I've tried explaining to them that i've been working there 7 years and always doubled my contract income but they said it doesn't matter, that's all i can get, take it or leave it!
Are they telling the truth?
Or is there a way around the issue or a bank that does just look at your income in a realistic way?

snubbleste

www dot home choice loan dot i e

3DataModem

Maybe a broker could help.

gaius c

Banks are risk averse now.
Can you blame them when their arrears are looking like this?

Stalfos

Thanks but the www dot home choice loan dot ie can't help me.

I've a proven track record of paying high rent on time for the past 5 years so they shouldn't be worried about me going into arrears but i see you point.

Does anyone know a good mortgage broker in the Dublin area?

whippet

the problem with contract work is that it is not full time and can be ended very quickly. While you seem to be in a fairly secure long term contract ... it still can be ended in the morning - historically companies use long term contractors for this very reason .. so that they can make quick changed to the workforce when needed.

If you are getting along as well as you say with the contract you probably have some large savings and if you can reduce the Loan to Value ratio to something like 70% or 60% you will find the banks will be much more willing to loan against your risk.

Trish56

You need to prove your income to them by providing the last 5 or 6 years P60's. Also what is the chance of talking to your employer and getting your contract changed to reflect the hours you are working.

Stalfos wrote: »

Does anyone know a bank who would give me a fair chance at getting a decent mortgage? I've been to most of em already including my own and they all drop the quote by half when i tell em i'm on a flex/full time contract.
It doesn't seem to matter to them how much i make, it's all about the least i get according to my contract.
I've tried explaining to them that i've been working there 7 years and always doubled my contract income but they said it doesn't matter, that's all i can get, take it or leave it!
Are they telling the truth?
Or is there a way around the issue or a bank that does just look at your income in a realistic way?

Stalfos

Trish56 wrote: »

You need to prove your income to them by providing the last 5 or 6 years P60's. Also what is the chance of talking to your employer and getting your contract changed to reflect the hours you are working.

I've already went down that alley and my employer has will not change my contract nor will they state my contract is anything more than whats written down. They have stated my job is secure though.
Also i did show the bank three p60s to prove my income but it's didn't sway them even a little.

I couldn't drop the mortgage any lower than the 15-20% i've asked for already unless i save for another few years.

I think the banks are really being too cautious and i wonder if i went to anymore of them would it be the same story. I've been to Pern tsb, aib, ulster and boi btw

Trish56

Who do you bank with - if you have been conducting your current account in a proper manner and shown you can save over the last number of years it should help. It would also be advisable to do out a CV for the bank outlining your qualifications and your experience and a bit of background regarding the Company you work for etc.

Recently the banks are approving more mortgages and it is easier to get approved. Can you get a gift to keep your loan to value below 80%.

Stalfos wrote: »

I've already went down that alley and my employer has will not change my contract nor will they state my contract is anything more than whats written down. They have stated my job is secure though.
Also i did show the bank three p60s to prove my income but it's didn't sway them even a little.

I couldn't drop the mortgage any lower than the 15-20% i've asked for already unless i save for another few years.

I think the banks are really being too cautious and i wonder if i went to anymore of them would it be the same story. I've been to Pern tsb, aib, ulster and boi btw

whippet

Stalfos wrote: »

I think the banks are really being too cautious and i wonder if i went to anymore of them would it be the same story. I've been to Pern tsb, aib, ulster and boi btw

if you are getting stonewalled by all of them ... I would suggest that you take a little more notice of what they are trying to say.

If all the main banks are reluctant to take on your risk - the is obviously a real risk and your only options are to alleviate that risk by ether:

- laying down more money for the deposit
- moving to a permanent position

In my experience contractor should be earning above the norm for the position due to the lack of security around tenure, in that case you should have a savings history to reflect the probability that you might have to survive without regular income should the contract not be extended.

Eldarion

Stalfos wrote: »

I think the banks are really being too cautious and i wonder if i went to anymore of them would it be the same story. I've been to Pern tsb, aib, ulster and boi btw

I know this sucks for you but I see this as a very reassuring sign from the banks. You are on contract, as a rule of thumb you should be making a significant % above your permanent peers to compensate for being on contract. This should allow you to gather a larger deposit and thus require a lower LTV % mortgage.

On the same vein, if the banks were to be even MORE stringent and actually took action on the monstrous graph below I imagine your current deposit would be a significantly higher % of your desired house's price and thus might be more likely to be approved that way.

gaius c wrote: »

Banks are risk averse now.
Can you blame them when their arrears are looking like this?

Spot the pinster!

Ray Palmer

Your employer can't keep you on contract like that. I thought after 2 years they have to make you permanent. It could be 4 years but by 7 they have certainly gone way over.

Are you self employed by chance and contracted that way?

Anyway getting a mortgage without a permanent job is very tricky.

Mrs OBumble

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Your employer can't keep you on contract like that. I thought after 2 years they have to make you permanent. It could be 4 years but by 7 they have certainly gone way over.

Yes they can.

There are two issues: permanence of the employment, and number of hours per week.

After four years of fixed-term contracts, an employee is entitled to a "contract of indefinite duration", meaning no specified end-date.

But this does not have to be for full time work. The OP could easily be on a CID that says "20 hours per week", but be regularly getting 45 hours per week. This sort of deal can be quite common in retail, for example.

If this was Work and Jobs and the OP was complaining that his/her hours had been cut, then the standard answer would be "yup, that's what your contract says". They might have some legal comeback re custom and practice, so we would tell them to talk to a lawyer. But this is of no interest to a bank, who are basing the employee's income on whats in their permanent contract.

gaius c

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Your employer can't keep you on contract like that. I thought after 2 years they have to make you permanent. It could be 4 years but by 7 they have certainly gone way over.

Are you self employed by chance and contracted that way?

Anyway getting a mortgage without a permanent job is very tricky.

In theory yes but the usual trick is that they take a "holiday" at the end of the 2 years and then start a new contract when they get back.

Stheno

gaius c wrote: »

In theory yes but the usual trick is that they take a "holiday" at the end of the 2 years and then start a new contract when they get back.

Or they are operating under a "contract" that is actually a Master Services Agreement?

Stalfos

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes they can.

There are two issues: permanence of the employment, and number of hours per week.

After four years of fixed-term contracts, an employee is entitled to a "contract of indefinite duration", meaning no specified end-date.

But this does not have to be for full time work. The OP could easily be on a CID that says "20 hours per week", but be regularly getting 45 hours per week. This sort of deal can be quite common in retail, for example.

If this was Work and Jobs and the OP was complaining that his/her hours had been cut, then the standard answer would be "yup, that's what your contract says". They might have some legal comeback re custom and practice, so we would tell them to talk to a lawyer. But this is of no interest to a bank, who are basing the employee's income on whats in their permanent contract.

To clarify, I'm on a CID contract so you got it right.
I wasn't really looking to go after my employer and i've already have a few arguments with my bank over this.
I should have mentioned this earlier but i had a long meeting with my bank and they initially gave me a much higher quote and then after i put through the application, the dropped it by less than half. I had explained everything to the bank manager and he seemed happy about it but i suppose the higher ups or whom ever decides didn't feel the same way.
I've given up on getting a mortgage with them and am not really looking to change my job or lively hood to appease some bank unless that is a finally option.
I'm really just asking are there ways around the system or an i out of luck?

The_Conductor

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Your employer can't keep you on contract like that. I thought after 2 years they have to make you permanent. It could be 4 years but by 7 they have certainly gone way over.

Are you self employed by chance and contracted that way?

Anyway getting a mortgage without a permanent job is very tricky.

OP- Google Fixed Term Working Act.
Check- does it apply to your situation.
Whether your employer realises it or not, you may in fact, be a permanent employee.

Unfortunately- it is standard- if on a contract- income is as stated on the contract- as this is all you are guaranteed- you are not guaranteed bonuses, or any other payments. Its the same for permanent employees- bonuses are not guaranteed, and are not counted.

whippet

Stalfos wrote: »

change my job or lively hood to appease some bank unless that is a finally option.
I'm really just asking are there ways around the system or an i out of luck?

so really your only option is to reduce the LTV ratio .... to pose less of a risk to the bank.

Back 10 years ago there were plenty of 'ways around the system' and look where that has gotten us ....

Mrs OBumble

The_Conductor wrote: »

OP- Google Fixed Term Working Act.
Check- does it apply to your situation.

The OP has already told us that s/he is on a CID, ie permanent.

Permanence is not the issue. Hours per week is. The OP is permanent-parttime, and that is the problem.

OP, the only way around it that I know is to either change jobs to change contracts.

Or be self-employed and have your accountant provide some years of financial statements about your business. TBH, I don't think this would be an option for you, unless you changed jobs, because going from employee to genuine contractor while workiing in the same place doing the same thing just isn't legitimate.

Stalfos

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The OP has already told us that s/he is on a CID, ie permanent.

Permanence is not the issue. Hours per week is. The OP is permanent-parttime, and that is the problem.

OP, the only way around it that I know is to either change jobs to change contracts.

Or be self-employed and have your accountant provide some years of financial statements about your business. TBH, I don't think this would be an option for you, unless you changed jobs, because going from employee to genuine contractor while workiing in the same place doing the same thing just isn't legitimate.

Thanks very much. I kinda knew that there really wasn't any under option for me but had to be sure.
I'd say i'm not the only one with this problem and if they bring in 0 hour contracts, then i think even more people will be in this situation.