Oleg's thread

TheBlaaMan

He's the kind of guy a lot of folk naturally don't want to like...........but I cant help it, so I think its time for Oleg Tinkov to have his own thread - after all, Jan and Klodi are less relevant these days. I don't have a title for this thread, so make some suggestions and we can pick the best and change it.

Controversial, yes, abrasive, certainly, (judging by this Twitter feed), but one thing you cannot accuse Oleg of being is boring, so I expect that this might be a fairly busy place.

Anyways, if his cycling (some/most) of the Giro route on his own in advance of the peloton each day doesn't mark him out as different from your average oligarch/team owner, his obvious sheer passion for the sport does.

To kick off, this is a great pic of him being there to catch his rider as Mick Rogers crossed the finish line of the Zoncolan, yesterday.





There's plenty of stuff on other threads about him, so feel free to re-post these in here.

TheBlaaMan

Also, he's as mad as a bag of donkeys....

http://youtu.be/n_ybkXbNBDs?t=4m19s

"They are too weak for me....."

daragh_

The world needs more Oleg.

pelevin

Seems a great breath of fresh air. Incredible counterpoint to Riis - talk about the Odd Couple! Must make for a very interesting team dynamic & atmosphere.

dastardly00

The odd couple

DirkVoodoo

daragh_ wrote: »

The world needs more Oleg.

No, I think the world needs less Oleg:



I know he doesn't take Twitter seriously, but it doesn't excuse his homophobic/misogynistic/racist comments. I for one don't really see him as a "breath of fresh air" in cycling. He just comes across as a narcissistic idiot who fancies himself as cycling's Abramovich.

eeeee

Can't warm to him to be honest, the narcissism, misogyny, the homophobia, the raging ego. Nope, can't see anything to like in there at all sadly.

ETA A collection of his musings here:
http://www.neilbrowne.com/2013/07/oleg-tinkov-is-on-a-tear/
And that's not all, there's feic loads as bad or worse.

Just can't condone or respect anyone who can spout that shíte.

pelevin

Oh well, maybe he's not so cuddly. Tobh I've not been so interested in him that I've been looking at things he's had to say down all the days, just basically aware of him riding the Giro stages this year & in the thick of the team action. He wasn't going to become an intellectual fixture of my life either way so I couldn't give that much of a Shiite who he really is.

gordongekko

He's a character. Life needs characters, sport needs characters , cycling needs characters. Life would be dull if everyone was the same and all politically correct. The more Oleg the better.

Brian?

gadetra wrote: »

Can't warm to him to be honest, the narcissism, misogyny, the homophobia, the raging ego. Nope, can't see anything to like in there at all sadly.

ETA A collection of his musings here:
http://www.neilbrowne.com/2013/07/oleg-tinkov-is-on-a-tear/
And that's not all, there's feic loads as bad or worse.

Just can't condone or respect anyone who can spout that shíte.

There was nothing homophobic or misogynistic there in fairness. Just a drunk nut job on twitter.

eeeee

Brian? wrote: »

There was nothing homophobic or misogynistic there in fairness. Just a drunk nut job on twitter.

Look over some of his other tweets. For example:
'@olegtinkov you don't like sluts? You gay?'.
'Oleg Tinkov‏@olegtinkov14h
@StephanieOrona would you suck my brother?'


But sure he's mad craic. Gas man. Only the bit of misogyny, homophobia etc. Sure people are too sensitive these days. He's a character. Political correctness gone mad Ted. :rolleyes:

rollingscone

I too am tired of @ssh@ts being given a pass for being "Crazy". "out of the box" or "standing up to Political correctness gone mad".

Also see guys standing up against the oppression of anti-racism or evil feminists trying to take away their freedom to make offensive remarks, carry out offensive actions. It's a lazy excuse to not think hard about the things you should think hard about.

Brian?

gadetra wrote: »

Look over some of his other tweets. For example:
'@olegtinkov you don't like sluts? You gay?'.
'Oleg Tinkov‏@olegtinkov14h
@StephanieOrona would you suck my brother?'


But sure he's mad craic. Gas man. Only the bit of misogyny, homophobia etc. Sure people are too sensitive these days. He's a character. Political correctness gone mad Ted. :rolleyes:

I'm only responding to what was posted. I don't really do twitter so I have no idea what else he's up to. My point was that there was nothing homophobic or mysogonistic in the tweets posted, they were just the rambling a of a drunk nut job.

I am actually undecided on him myself. He's clearly a nut job but he loves cycling and is pumping money into the sport at a time when others are running away.

I have zero time form intolerance btw, you'll never hear me spout this "political correctness gone mad" bull ****. It's a lovely catchphrase bigots love to use.

rollingscone

Truly it's the new "I'm not racist but"

daragh_

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

No, I think the world needs less Oleg:



I know he doesn't take Twitter seriously, but it doesn't excuse his homophobic/misogynistic/racist comments. I for one don't really see him as a "breath of fresh air" in cycling. He just comes across as a narcissistic idiot who fancies himself as cycling's Abramovich.

All fair points and I can't say I disagree. But I'm still going to follow him on Twitter. I suspect there will be blood on the team bus floor at some point.

DirkVoodoo

Sure I thought he was pulling out of the team and starting up Tinkoff Credit Systems again...he had some bust up with Riis and Contador, accused Contador of underperforming given the money he is paid. That all went very quiet and suddenly everyone was best friends again.

He must have said something that really moved Riis*


To a bigger house!

I'm not sure I can name any other team owners and to be honest I prefer it that way. Can anyone guarantee this guy will be around for long? Can you really say he is better than a lot of other owners/sponsors?

It would appear to me that he likes professional cycling for the attention and the self promotion. He also appears in his own ads for Tinkoff Credit Systems...does that mean he loves credit card owners? I find myself slightly in disbelief at people holding him up as some kind of champion for cycling ownership, stemming the tide of Rabobanks and others who don't have the passion to stick with the sport during tough times.

Yeah, he does it for the love of cycling alright. He'd not hidden the fact he's ready to go to war with ASO over TdeF TV money. You only need to look at the premier league to see what might happen once you go down that road. The top teams will become billionaire's playthings, soaking up all the money while the smaller teams suffocate and die. Yeah, it's not ideal at the moment and a lot of teams do struggle, but cycling has survived like that for a long time. It's only now that the effects of TV revenue are being felt in football. Scottish football and lower league English football are on their knees.

Bristolscale7

This guy is a disgusting piece of ****. Why hasn't he been sanctioned by the UCI for his homophobic, misogynistic statements? This guy's ignorance is comparable to the racism that forced Sterling out of the NBA. The fact that Tinkoff tweets this stuff publicly makes it all the more incredulous. How dare anyone write off this kind of hate speech as "lol crazy character"

pelevin

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

This guy is a disgusting piece of ****. Why hasn't he been sanctioned by the UCI for his homophobic, misogynistic statements? This guy's ignorance is comparable to the racism that forced Sterling out of the NBA. The fact that Tinkoff tweets this stuff publicly makes it all the more incredulous. How dare anyone write off this kind of hate speech as "lol crazy character"

Though otoh, what about "This guy is a disgusting piece of ****." Isn't that hate speech? Or is hate speech ok once there's perceived to be a good reason?

Bristolscale7

pelevin wrote: »

Though otoh, what about "This guy is a disgusting piece of ****." Isn't that hate speech? Or is hate speech ok once there's perceived to be a good reason?

One is a generalization based on ignorance and prejudice, the other is a specific description based on empirical evidence. Can you tell which is which?

pelevin

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

One is a generalization based on ignorance and prejudice, the other is a specific description based on empirical evidence. Can you tell which is which?

I can tell that hate speech is using words to express hatred. And you seem in favour of it.

Bristolscale7

pelevin wrote: »

I can tell that hate speech is using words to express hatred. And you seem in favour of it.

I hate trolls too.

MPFG

Tinkoff is a complex character and alot of what he spouts on Twitter is done for effect rather than his true beliefs IMO....He fancies himself as some sort of reactionary who sets out to rally against those who are afraid to say the wrong thing but think it

He got married very young and has been happily married for nearly 30 years and he deferrs to his wife in many many situations and in some respects she is the boss

He genuinely loves cycling and credits it with helping him start his business. He was a very good sprinter who travelled abroad to race and in doing so imported jeans which he sold on the black market. He seems genuinely chuffed to be racing with a team and meeting top pros like Chippo or Cancelara.He is rich but not uber rich so he is ploughing alot of his wealth into cycling

Having said that he has a very large ego and like to be the centre of everything...
I think he is in cycling for the long haul and aims to change it

I tend to care more about who a person is rather than what they say....I am surrounded everyday by many middle class faux liberals who lament the plight of poor hard working families, women in oppressive societies in the middle east, people in sweat factories in India or China, yet their accountants ensure they pay minimum tax, they benefit from cheap imports from the east, have used capitalism to perpetuate their comfortable existence and have never lifted a finger to help the many abused women or youngsters on their own door step

Darkglasses

Bristolscale7, do not call troll again, it is backseat moderating. If you have a question, pm me.

rollingscone

MPFG wrote: »

Tinkoff is a complex character and alot of what he spouts on Twitter is done for effect rather than his true beliefs IMO....He fancies himself as some sort of reactionary who sets out to rally against those who are afraid to say the wrong thing but think it

He got married very young and has been happily married for nearly 30 years and he deferrs to his wife in many many situations and in some respects she is the boss

He genuinely loves cycling and credits it with helping him start his business. He was a very good sprinter who travelled abroad to race and in doing so imported jeans which he sold on the black market. He seems genuinely chuffed to be racing with a team and meeting top pros like Chippo or Cancelara.He is rich but not uber rich so he is ploughing alot of his wealth into cycling

Having said that he has a very large ego and like to be the centre of everything...
I think he is in cycling for the long haul and aims to change it

I tend to care more about who a person is rather than what they say....I am surrounded everyday by many middle class faux liberals who lament the plight of poor hard working families, women in oppressive societies in the middle east, people in sweat factories in India or China, yet their accountants ensure they pay minimum tax, they benefit from cheap imports from the east, have used capitalism to perpetuate their comfortable existence and have never lifted a finger to help the many abused women or youngsters on their own door step

So TL:DR because you know some alleged hypocrites all criticism is nil and ah sure he's only doing it for the attention/it's a bit of craic etc etc.

It's great that he apparently loves cycling and all but that doesn't justify projecting a 'he's secretly not a horrible person' version of reality based on your assumptions about his internal processes that we can't read, as opposed to his real world behaviour and public pronouncements.

I don't take twitter seriously either, but I've never felt the need to say cruel things about real people.

Inquitus

If Froome monsters Contador in the tour it will be funny watching Oleg lose the plot!

Bristolscale7

MPFG wrote: »

Tinkoff is a complex character and alot of what he spouts on Twitter is done for effect rather than his true beliefs IMO....

Another possibility is that he believes what he says and that, judging by his public statements, he is a homophobic misogynist. If he were spewing antisemitism on twitter would you give him the benefit of the doubt?

Does the UCI support women's professional cycling, or the development of female juniors?

eeeee

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

Another possibility is that he believes what he says and that, judging by his public statements, he is a homophobic misogynist. If he were spewing antisemitism on twitter would you give him the benefit of the doubt?

Does the UCI support women's professional cycling, or the development of female juniors?

He is spouting anti Semitic generalisations. In response to critiscism to a lady I think it was with the surname Zimmerman, he replied something along the lines of 'jews are all in entertainment sure'. I will find the exact tweet later.

I don't follow him on twitter (I have actually never tweeted) but it is still easy to find the crap he's spouting.

MPFG

rollingscone wrote: »

So TL:DR because you know some alleged hypocrites all criticism is nil and ah sure he's only doing it for the attention/it's a bit of craic etc etc.

It's great that he apparently loves cycling and all but that doesn't justify projecting a 'he's secretly not a horrible person' version of reality based on your assumptions about his internal processes that we can't read, as opposed to his real world behaviour and public pronouncements.

I don't take twitter seriously either, but I've never felt the need to say cruel things about real people.

I never said all criticism was nil ....I said look at it from a different point of view...

And I don't know some 'alleged' hypocrites...I know alot and I bet there is some on here spouting bile
I am not a Tinkoff follower but I bet he is more complex than the simplistic condemnation by the self righteous

I am not his apologist but I will say while he is not all good he is not all bad either

We live in a world where what a man says can define him but what he does or more appropriately does not do is not considered relevant

Idleater

These arguments are as valid as those in the sagan thread.

rollingscone

MPFG wrote: »

I never said all criticism was nil ....I said look at it from a different point of view...

And I don't know some 'alleged' hypocrites...I know alot and I bet there is some on here spouting bile
I am not a Tinkoff follower but I bet he is more complex than the simplistic condemnation by the self righteous

I am not his apologist but I will say while he is not all good he is not all bad either

We live in a world where what a man says can define him but what he does or more appropriately does not do is not considered relevant

That's because talking and writing ARE doing.

If it was the other way around and I was visibly drowning a sack of puppies while speaking out against animal cruelty, would people say I was complicated?

Oldlegs

gadetra wrote: »

He is spouting anti Semitic generalisations. In response to critiscism to a lady I think it was with the surname Zimmerman, he replied something along the lines of 'jews are all in entertainment sure'. I will find the exact tweet later.

I don't follow him on twitter (I have actually never tweeted) but it is still easy to find the crap he's spouting.

I think this is the one you are looking for ...
"@ZimmermanAnna @bambula jews always entertain,isnt it?
12:06 AM - 11 Jul 2013"

(Taken from http://www.neilbrowne.com/2013/07/oleg-tinkov-is-on-a-tear/ )

MPFG

rollingscone wrote: »

That's because talking and writing ARE doing.

If it was the other way around and I was visibly drowning a sack of puppies while speaking out against animal cruelty, would people say I was complicated?

I think you missed the point ...I said what a man does ....drowning puppies would come under the heading of doing

I think I have made my point so I will leave it now

TheBlaaMan

This has all gotten a bit out of hand and I'm questioning my idea of starting a thread that has led us to this point. In case there is any doubt, I fully agree that there is nothing about Tinkovs mysoginistic, anti-semitic, sexist attitude that is admirable, or excusable - I wasnt fully aware of it, TBH. In some ways I suspect that he is but a product of Russian culture that seems to tolerate, if not condone, these sort of attitudes, and its second nature to him but I honestly dont know, maybe he is just a sh1t. I spent some time in China 15 years ago and expected to form very harsh opinions of their cultural approach to child welfare, social freedoms etc. but I came away from there thinking 'Chinese are different, not better or worse, just very, very, very different' to us in how we think about things. I presume that the same could be said of Russia & Russians...... Can you like some elements of a person while disliking some of his behaviour?

I do admire Tinkov for his enthusiasm for cycling, and for his team; does that excuse the other side of his character as we judge it? No. never.

Mods, Feel free to close this thread if it gets to that point.

rollingscone

MPFG wrote: »

I think you missed the point ...I said what a man does ....drowning puppies would come under the heading of doing

I think I have made my point so I will leave it now

Actually you ignored my point that people wouldn't accept the inverse of the things you gave Tinkov a 'complicated' pass for.

Oldlegs

rollingscone wrote: »

Actually you ignored my point that people wouldn't accept the inverse of the things you gave Tinkov a 'complicated' pass for.

@MPFG @rollingscone - I think I have become completely lost in both of your attempts to justify why you are not justifying the justification of Oleg's complications.

MPFG

Well I am not trying to justify anything to anyone

I am making a point that its not a simple as one could argue or indeed condemn

This time I am finished

pelevin

Bristolscale7 wrote: »

I hate trolls too.

Ok, someone else's hatred is horrible but yours is a thing of great beauty.
Hatred is an ugly emotion. It doesn't become an ethical and pure truth to wallow in once you feel it has a good cause. Otherwise, obviously enough, since you find hatred fine, then you have no inner truth to measure other stuff against. It's all just much of a muchness.

Russman

daragh_ wrote: »

All fair points and I can't say I disagree. But I'm still going to follow him on Twitter. I suspect there will be blood on the team bus floor at some point.

:D............metaphorically speaking

gordongekko

Is the hate for Oleg based solely on his Twitter account?

From my little knowledge of Twitter we can't even be sure it's him. It may be someone close to him. And even if it's him the timeline is wrong.

Oleg sets up account, receives abuse on twitter, abuses people back, people arrive on their high horse complaining about Oleg.

From my limited knowledge of him he's a happily married family man who's a little eccentric and has a passion for cycling. He appears to operate his businesses in an ethical manner and has not actually done any of the things he is accused of in this thread.

gordongekko

How can Bradley Wiggins end up being yellow jersey? Sign with @tinkoff_saxo and wear (yellow) all year long"

@tinkoff_saxo owner and social media addict Oleg Tinkov, whose team wear yellow and blue, opens transfer negotiations with the British cycling star.

MPFG

gordongekko wrote: »

How can Bradley Wiggins end up being yellow jersey? Sign with @tinkoff_saxo and wear (yellow) all year long"

@tinkoff_saxo owner and social media addict Oleg Tinkov, whose team wear yellow and blue, opens transfer negotiations with the British cycling star.

Can't see that one

Tinkov , Riis & Wiggins ...is there a country big enough for those egos to be in at the same time ?? Politically incorrect watchdogs would have afield day if Tinkov & Wiggins at the same press conference ....Love to see it for the entertainment value alone

Wiggins will only go to OGE I think if they offer as Mat White is his former trainer and mentor

Lumen

I like Wiggo a lot but I think his exclusion from the TdF is a case of "live by the sword, die by the sword".

He has been previously criticised by teammates for being utterly self-centred and not a great team player/leader, and now he's on the receiving end of similar behaviour from Froome.

Oleg+Wiggo would be awesome.

dastardly00

Oleg has done an interview with Cyclingnews at his summer home in Tuscany (I dunno why I'm mentioning that he has a house in Tuscany).

A lot of the stuff he comes out with can be bulls**t and it's hard to know what is the truth, but it is interesting...

"The Biological Passport is a similar mess. I can't say that Roman Kreuziger is clean or not, that's not really the issue here and also his problems happened before he joined my team, so it's nothing I could have controlled. What I'm saying is that if he doped, then he deserves to be banned for a long time. But if he didn’t dope or he hasn't yet been found guilty, then he should be allowed to race. It's like owning a good race horse. I want it to race, not stay in the stable. I have to utilize my investment.

And

"I'll reveal something important. Last year there was a rider, quite a famous rider, who we were considering for the team but we didn’t sign him because our experts and our doctors looked at his Biological Passport data and thought there was something wrong with it, with irregularities in there. But one of the other major teams in the peloton did sign him and the UCI was okay with it and now this rider is racing.

"That happened because there are no clear rules, because the UCI is so amateurish. For me the UCI doesn't understand how to manage cycling."

ZiabR

He is like most mouth pieces, "ok is small doses". Some of his Twitter rants are insane...

Sarz91

Latest twitter rant in response to some abuse by some Norwegian user giving Russia a hard time is pretty stupid even for Oleg.

https://twitter.com/olegtinkov/status/501295009761857537

Has he completely lost it?

ZiabR

Yeah, thats Oleg alright. Unreal.

godtabh

At the Vodka again?

drogdub

Two stupid tweets. I don't hate Russians, in fact the ones I met I quite liked and they weren't stupid

MPFG

I got to say that I may have been tolerant of Oleg Tinkoff somewhat in the past but the latest tweets have crossed the line..Referring to the Norwegin massacre in this manner is outrageous to say the least...He seems to have no concept of what is acceptable and what is offensive and what is down right off limits

It all lead from his comparison of Norwegin cyclists to girls and then going on to question the bio passport of a rider who was in the process of signing with his team.....We all know that is EBH and he knows we know it

So if you don't sign with his team he slanders you?? Can't see riders lined up for that kind of abuse.

Maybe cycling needs to stay poor afterall as the alternative does not look good

godtabh

MPFG wrote: »

It all lead from his comparison of Norwegin cyclists to girls and then going on to question the bio passport of a rider who was in the process of signing with his team.....We all know that is EBH and he knows we know it

He seems to do this alot. Slagging of Roche wanting €2m when it was clear that others in the team wanted him. He also wants EBH yet slags him and his country off.

This must be a put on. In private he must act different or I cant see any one wanting to work for him.

quozl

godtabh wrote: »

This must be a put on. In private he must act different or I cant see any one wanting to work for him.

You only have a certain number of years as an elite athlete and after that your earning potential is going to be a tiny fraction of what it was. I could see someone choosing to spend a couple of years working for a dickhead with lots of money to throw around.