Toyota Prius overview.

from_atozinc

Herself is thinking of buying a Prius from around 2009 / 2010. I'm trying to get a simple overview of them.

So they are half electric / half motorised.

1. When is electric in play versus normal motor in play ?

2. Is the petrol tank a lot smaller than other similar sized cars - like 30 litres or something ?

3. Is it a very quiet car ?

4. Any special or different maintenance needed in these - presume they have a timing belt / chain and cylinders, spark plugs etc ?

5. Does the battery have to be charged at a charging point ?

colm_mcm

So they are half electric / half motorised.
Yes, the electric motor can assist, or completely do the job of the petrol engine.




1. When is electric in play versus normal motor in play ?
Usually when accelerating, the electric motor will ease the load on the petrol engine. I'll post a video that'll explain better.


2. Is the petrol tank a lot smaller than other similar sized cars - like 30 litres or something ?
No, its a 45 litre tank


3. Is it a very quiet car ?
Not particularly. The engine can be a bit thrash at high revs, and there's a bit of road noise. On a smooth road in electric-only mode its eerily quiet though

4. Any special or different maintenance needed in these - presume they have a timing belt / chain and cylinders, spark plugs etc ?
Servicing go is no more than a regular 4 cyl engine. Timing chain.


5. Does the battery have to be charged at a charging point
No. The battery is charged by the petrol engine and regenerative braking

from_atozinc

colm_mcm wrote: »

So they are half electric / half motorised.
Yes, the electric motor can assist, or completely do the job of the petrol engine.




1. When is electric in play versus normal motor in play ?
Usually when accelerating, the electric motor will ease the load on the petrol engine. I'll post a video that'll explain better.

Thanks Colm

I think I heard somewhere that if you keep the speed below 30mph that only the electric motor is in play. But this means that the battery would have to be fully charged. Does it take long to charge this battery - like do you have to do an hour or so of braking to get the battery charged up again ?

DublinDilbert

Do you need the boot space? Auris hybrid with same engine /gear box as gen 3 prius can be got for much less money. Auris hybrid regularly getting 57mpg in the city.

Take one for a test drive, quite a few garages have brought them in from the uk. Toyota uk warranty changed in 2010, so many 2011 onwards imports will have 5 year warranty, if service history up to date.

DublinDilbert

from_atozinc wrote: »

Thanks Colm

I think I heard somewhere that if you keep the speed below 30mph that only the electric motor is in play. But this means that the battery would have to be fully charged. Does it take long to charge this battery - like do you have to do an hour or so of braking to get the battery charged up again ?

The all electric range is only good for a few Km's tops. The hybrid control system takes care of charging the battery in the background. You just drive it like a regular car....

colm_mcm

Yeah. The EV mode is more of a novelty than anything else. Afaik, if you let the car decide itself, its more efficient.

DublinDilbert

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yeah. The EV mode is more of a novelty than anything else. Afaik, if you let the car decide itself, its more efficient.

It's handy the very odd time, like swapping cars around in the drive way or if your moving from one car park to another not too far away. These cars are great a low speed manovering and parking...

Leonard Hofstadter

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Do you need the boot space? Auris hybrid with same engine /gear box as gen 3 prius can be got for much less money. Auris hybrid regularly getting 57mpg in the city.

Take one for a test drive, quite a few garages have brought them in from the uk. Toyota uk warranty changed in 2010, so many 2011 onwards imports will have 5 year warranty, if service history up to date.

Would the 5 year warranty be valid in Ireland, though?

DublinDilbert

captainspeed wrote: »

Would the 5 year warranty be valid in Ireland, though?

If it's serviced on the button at a toyota garage I can't see why not. Worst case scenario if toyota Ireland won't touch it send it up to newry.

The same holds for bmw's which are sold with a longer warranty in the uk.

from_atozinc

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yeah. The EV mode is more of a novelty than anything else. Afaik, if you let the car decide itself, its more efficient.

What's EV mode ?

Miscreant

captainspeed wrote: »

Would the 5 year warranty be valid in Ireland, though?

I bought a 2012 Auris Hybrid recently. It is a UK car but bought from a dealer here in ROI. I was told that the 5 year warranty is only valid in the UK so if anything happens you need to get the car up North.

Miscreant

from_atozinc wrote: »

What's EV mode ?

EV mode uses purely electric power for as long as the battery lasts. Once the battery is depleted, the petrol engine will kick in.
Handy for short trips like moving the car out of the way but i wouldn't really use it too much. The car is better at regulating itself if you just leave it in eco or normal modes.

DublinDilbert

Miscreant wrote: »

I bought a 2012 Auris Hybrid recently. It is a UK car but bought from a dealer here in ROI. I was told that the 5 year warranty is only valid in the UK so if anything happens you need to get the car up North.

Have the same myself, what sort of mpg you getting?

from_atozinc

Miscreant wrote: »

EV mode uses purely electric power for as long as the battery lasts. Once the battery is depleted, the petrol engine will kick in.
Handy for short trips like moving the car out of the way but i wouldn't really use it too much. The car is better at regulating itself if you just leave it in eco or normal modes.

Sounds like the electric motor on its own isn't worth a sh1t3 really ; )

Does it only work on its own at under 20 mph or something

CiniO

from_atozinc wrote: »

Sounds like the electric motor on its own isn't worth a sh1t3 really ; )

Does it only work on its own at under 20 mph or something

If you want to get in technicallity of it, then you have one combustion engine and two electic motors (one bigger, one smaller).
They all work together at the same time. Electric motors can act as either electric motor or generator for charging battery. Combustion engine might be off at lower speeds, but that's not the aim of car technology to drive without combustion engine for any prelonged amount of time. Combustion engine just turns off when it's not needed (f.e. during braking, slowing down or crusing at very low speeds).
From driver point of view, you just put the joystick on D, press the accelerator pedal, and keep direction with your steering wheel - that's all average drivers can be interested in

colm_mcm

DublinDilbert wrote: »

It's handy the very odd time, like swapping cars around in the drive way or if your moving from one car park to another not too far away. These cars are great a low speed manovering and parking...

I know the mk2 Prius won't let you go into EV mode unless the engine is up to temp. Maybe mk3 is different.

BMJD

colm_mcm wrote: »

I know the mk2 Prius won't let you go into EV mode unless the engine is up to temp. Maybe mk3 is different.

Mk 3 will let you use EV mode immediately once the battery has some charge in it, but once the engine kicks in it has to stay on til it's up to temp, usually 2-3 minutes. It's handy if you are swapping cars around in the driveway, for example.

BMJD

from_atozinc wrote: »

Sounds like the electric motor on its own isn't worth a sh1t3 really ; )

Does it only work on its own at under 20 mph or something

It will do up to 50 km/h by itself, or it will do up to 75 km/h when the engine gets it up to speed; i.e. the petrol engine can shut down and it will cruise on battery alone. It will also shut down if you are cruising down a hill, up to at least 120 km/h, the battery will also be charging at the same time.

Oafley Jones

from_atozinc wrote: »

Sounds like the electric motor on its own isn't worth a sh1t3 really ; )

Does it only work on its own at under 20 mph or something

Was looking into the prius and i's economy just this past week. Came to the conclusion that plug-in was the only one worth getting. Second hand that is. They still command a premium, but they seem to have general efficiency gains that the regular model really doesn't have. 13 miles electric, running up to 60mph vs 2-3 running up 30ish mph. 57mpg vs 137mpg claimed. 90 minute charge time. The catch is they never seemed to sell them here, but there is a few in the UK.

pred racer

Is Mad_Lad ill????

Or Ibml

Miscreant

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Have the same myself, what sort of mpg you getting?

Sorry, only spotted this now. I'm getting mid 50s with the best being 57.4. Only filled up 3 times since I got it in early April though. Traded in a 2l petrol Volvo for it so any newer car was going to be better on fuel and I didn't want to go diesel.
What are you getting?

DublinDilbert

I'm pretty much getting 57mpg. Have mine about the same time. €50 does two weeks instead of one!

BMJD

You will probably gradually increase that if you try. I'm up to mid-60s in the Prius now after a year .

allthedoyles

Dragons Den Sean O Sullivan told Gay Byrne tonight that he drives a Toyota Prius . just saying.........

BMJD

As long as it's not the other way around, I'm happy!

Miscreant

BMJD wrote: »

You will probably gradually increase that if you try. I'm up to mid-60s in the Prius now after a year .

Just have to get used to the whole pulse and glide thing. One thing I wonder though is about being stopped in traffic. I put the car in Park to stop it creeping but I'm afraid of wrecking the gearbox. Any tips on this one BJMD?

colm_mcm

The Prius is more clever than us. it'll just kill the engine if you put in in "P"

Don't be worrying

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Herself is thinking of buying a Prius from around 2009 / 2010. I'm trying to get a simple overview of them.

One of the most reliable cars in the world, Known to go beyond 400,000 miles without major maintenance.

battery failures are rare, mostly in hot U.S climates.

In the MK III 09+ there are 0 belts. Steering, A/C, Water pump are electric.

Gearbox oil must be replaced every 100,000 miles, I had mine done in the MK II and it was manky.

No major servicing required, oil, sparks, filters and the usual.

I really love the power delivery in the prius, none of that annoying lag and narrow power band of most manual diesels.

I regularly get 60-64 mpg.

EV mode can be selected straight away but once the engine starts the warm up phase it can't be stopped.

EV mode is not to be used only at lights when sometimes the engine won't turn off. Driving in EV mode will kill the battery quickly and isn't very efficient.

Pulse and glide is a great way to increase mpg, it takes time to learn, basically at up to 71 kph you back off the accelerator and push gently until no energy flows on the monitor, you're now costing which is more efficient than regen.

Push gently on the accelerator and you'll use energy from the battery and it's basically coasting with a gentle push of the motor. This works up to all speeds.

Using pulse and glide I can go through some towns and villages using absolutely no fuel at all. And on the open road it makes a difference.

I got the prius with 74,000 Kms and have nearly 200,000 kms, 0 failures .

Regarding noise, under hard accelerating it's noisy but not more so than most cvt's. Once up to speed it's quiet.

Though the MK III is quieter because the engine is more powerful.

Motor power is limited mostly due to the battery,

You'd pick up a nissan leaf much cheaper than a Plug In Prius.

Oafley Jones

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd pick up a nissan leaf much cheaper than a Plug In Prius.

Why would you make that comparison?

from_atozinc

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Why would you make that comparison?

Yeah. I'm confused on this too

from_atozinc

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Do you need the boot space? Auris hybrid with same engine /gear box as gen 3 prius can be got for much less money. Auris hybrid regularly getting 57mpg in the city.

Take one for a test drive, quite a few garages have brought them in from the uk. Toyota uk warranty changed in 2010, so many 2011 onwards imports will have 5 year warranty, if service history up to date.

Yep, the boot space is needed.

Oafley Jones

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Why would you make that comparison?

from_atozinc wrote: »

Yeah. I'm confused on this too

Well think about it, the battery is too small in the Plug in Prius, unless you're doing about 10-12 miles in one go that's all you'll get in electric.

Is it worth the premium over the standard prius ?, A Leaf can be got for 12-14K in the U.K, even shipped over much cheaper than a Plug In Prius. With 12-30K miles.

The Leaf while restricted in range has much more potential especially with all the fast chargers now available if most of your daily driving is within 60 winter miles to 80 summer. The fast chargers can extend that to 120-140 with a 20-30 min top up on a QC.

The Plug In Prius while no restrictions on range isn't very useful for more than short trips, and if that's what you mainly do then why drag around an engine ?

You'd even pick up a used Opel Ampera (aka Volt) for as much as the plug in prius with about 30 max miles electric. The downside of the Ampera is it's strictly a 4 seater

On Autotrader U.K, there is a 2012 plug in prius, with 12K miles for 16,999 Pounds and a 2012 Ampera with 50K miles for 16,000 Pounds.

If you wanted and ICE still, the Ampera is without doubt, miles better than the plug in Prius, only thing is it's - one seat in the back.

from_atozinc

I see the torque of the prius is not too hectic..............only 105 lb/ft is not great for a 1.8 engine.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/toyota/prius/hatchback-2009/54743/


I thought the electric motor added more torque or am I wrong ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

I see the torque of the prius is not too hectic..............only 105 lb/ft is not great for a 1.8 engine.

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/toyota/prius/hatchback-2009/54743/


I thought the electric motor added more torque or am I wrong ?

No you're correct.

The MK I has a 50 hp motor with 400 lbs of torque and works at about 6500 rpm.

The MK III has an 80 hp motor and 153 lbs of torque but spins about 12500 rpm.

It also has an even simpler gearbox that eliminates the chain. There is only 1 gear and basically capable of lasting half a million miles or more. Keep the oil changed every 100 k miles.

The Prius is one car I'd have no worries about the automatic especially with high mileage.

from_atozinc

Deleted User wrote: »

No you're correct.

The MK I has a 50 hp motor with 400 lbs of torque and works at about 6500 rpm.

The MK III has an 80 hp motor and 153 lbs of torque but spins about 12500 rpm.

It also has an even simpler gearbox that eliminates the chain. There is only 1 gear and basically capable of lasting half a million miles or more. Keep the oil changed every 100 k miles.

The Prius is one car I'd have no worries about the automatic especially with high mileage.

But does the electric motor add any more torque ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

But does the electric motor add any more torque ?

Yes, how much I don't know. You'd have to work out the gear ratio, rpm's etc.

What this all translates to at the wheels I've no idea, but it's not equal to 180 hp in a normal ICE.

It's about the same as a 2.0 L passat TDI 140 HP 0-100 kph of about 9.8 seconds, some quote 9.5 seconds.

It will be more fuel efficient than the Passat DSG and most likely the manual.

TBi

You just have to drive one. You'll know whether you'll like it or not then. Drive it like a regular car. I drove a mk3 and was pleasantly surprised.

All the facts and figures in the world won't matter if you don't even like the car.

According to Wiki the MK III prius has a combined output of 134 HP, sounds about right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Quote

"The 1.8-liter gasoline engine (previously 1.5 liters) generates 98 hp (73 kW), and with the added power of the electric motor generates a total of 134 hp (100 kW) (previously 110 hp or 82 kW). The larger engine displacement allows for increased torque, reducing engine speeds (RPM), which improves fuel economy at highway speeds. Thanks to its electric water pump, the Prius engine is the first consumer automotive production engine that requires no accessory belts, which also further improves its fuel economy.[62] The electric motors and other components of the hybrid powertrain are also smaller and more efficient than the industry average.[63] Toyota estimates the new inverter, motor and transaxle are 20 percent lighter."

End Quote.

from_atozinc

Deleted User wrote: »

According to Wiki the MK III prius has a combined output of 134 HP, sounds about right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

Quote

"The 1.8-liter gasoline engine (previously 1.5 liters) generates 98 hp (73 kW), and with the added power of the electric motor generates a total of 134 hp (100 kW) (previously 110 hp or 82 kW). The larger engine displacement allows for increased torque, reducing engine speeds (RPM), which improves fuel economy at highway speeds. Thanks to its electric water pump, the Prius engine is the first consumer automotive production engine that requires no accessory belts, which also further improves its fuel economy.[62] The electric motors and other components of the hybrid powertrain are also smaller and more efficient than the industry average.[63] Toyota estimates the new inverter, motor and transaxle are 20 percent lighter."

End Quote.

interesting, it just seems that a 1.8 liter engine alone having just 98 HP is a bit low, normally a 1.8 litre engine on its own would have about 130hp +

I was kinda thinking that the 1.8 liter engine alone had 134 bhp and then the electric motor added even more bhp.

John T Carroll

from_atozinc wrote: »

interesting, it just seems that a 1.8 liter engine alone having just 98 HP is a bit low, normally a 1.8 litre engine on its own would have about 130hp +

I was kinda thinking that the 1.8 liter engine alone had 134 bhp and then the electric motor added even more bhp.

The reason that the engine doesn't develop high power outputs is that its based on the Atkinson cycle, basically it has a much higher compression ratio than the normal petrol engine, this results in a higher expansion of the gases which further improves efficiency. However this compression ratio is far too high for combustion so the closing of the inlet valves is delayed until the piston(s) is someway up the cylinder before compression begins but this results in a lower volumetric efficiency. What you have roughly is a an engine with an expansion ratio of around 16:1 but an effective compression ratio of around 10.5:1.
"Atkinson" brought out this design around 1890 I think!.

The 1.8 is also de-tuned.

Toyota reckon the next gen Prius petrol engine will be more efficient than a diesel.

from_atozinc

John T Carroll wrote: »

The reason that the engine doesn't develop high power outputs is that its based on the Atkinson cycle, basically it has a much higher compression ratio than the normal petrol engine, this results in a higher expansion of the gases which further improves efficiency. However this compression ratio is far too high for combustion so the closing of the inlet valves is delayed until the piston(s) is someway up the cylinder before compression begins but this results in a lower volumetric efficiency. What you have roughly is a an engine with an expansion ratio of around 16:1 but an effective compression ratio of around 10.5:1.
"Atkinson" brought out this design around 1890 I think!.

Jaysus, Fair enough

from_atozinc

I suppose herself is looking for a car that has a decent size boot and reliable ( no dpfs, complicated modern diesel engines etc ) and that will do 2 things

1 ) Give decent MPG in start / stop city driving and short runs
2 ) Give decent MPG on a Motorway at 120 KPH

Not too many cars will do both of the above , like a diesel is mighty on a motorway but not great in start stop traffic.
1.2 litre petrol will be good in the city, but not that great at 120 kph on a motorway. and a 1.2 car will buy normal standards have a small boot.

And it seems the Prius suits both city and motorway driving, I think

But I will be driving it too and I love me bit of poke dont think a prius has much poke at all

mgbgt1978

You could always test drive one to see what it's really like.
Everybody has their own opinion on how it drives so why not try driving one and see what you think of it then.

from_atozinc

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You could always test drive one to see what it's really like.
Everybody has their own opinion on how it drives so why not try driving one and see what you think of it then.

Get ya. But high level, I think the Prius is good for these 2 things :


1 ) Give decent MPG in start / stop city driving and short runs
2 ) Give decent MPG on a Motorway at 120 KPH

Prius III is poky enough.

What's your budget ?

If you want an ice car with fantastic economy then for about 21k you'll get the Opel ampera in the U.K, it's even poker again.

You can drive in leccy mode for 20-30 miles.

Or BMW I3 Rex

Bigus

Prius II and III are pokey enough and more than well proven at this stage when it comes to reliability.

from_atozinc

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Prius III is poky enough.

What's your budget ?

If you want an ice car with fantastic economy then for about 21k you'll get the Opel ampera in the U.K, it's even poker again.

You can drive in leccy mode for 20-30 miles.

Or BMW I3 Rex

Ah tis only about 12,000 Euro.

from_atozinc

Bigus wrote: »

Prius II and III are pokey enough and more than well proven at this stage when it comes to reliability.

Are they the most ideal car for both start/stop city driving AND motorway driving - from an MPG point of view ?

from_atozinc

from_atozinc wrote: »

Are they the most ideal car for both start/stop city driving AND motorway driving - from an MPG point of view ?

They're certainly ideal for start stop driving and you'll have no DPF or DMF problems.

This is what I can get in the MK II if I want but I mostly get about 4.6 L/100 Kms or 61.4 mpg mix of driving.



You really need to take one for a spin, look for the T-spirit high spec ones, they're not worth more than the lower spec.

Check for a full service record and check if any recall work has been carried out, if not get it done.